-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Pride Toronto votes to remove police floats and marches
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
- Start date
- Status
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Such a stupid decision. Don't bring your American politics into Canada. Cops are quite nice here in Toronto, and do so much more for the community.
Their inclusion was always a fun and warming gathering. They are always a sign of security and confidence for LGBT community. Good job putting them in a bad picture and potentially dehumanizing the situation.
WTF does BLM have to do with Canada? Did I miss some news on police biased violence on black in Canada? And what does that have to do with LGBT/Pride Community?
Their inclusion was always a fun and warming gathering. They are always a sign of security and confidence for LGBT community. Good job putting them in a bad picture and potentially dehumanizing the situation.
WTF does BLM have to do with Canada? Did I miss some news on police biased violence on black in Canada? And what does that have to do with LGBT/Pride Community?
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Under Fantino, the Toronto police had stopped black drivers way more than white drivers - in line with American police statistics. The Toronto Star ran a big expose on it. I assume it's changed for the better in the last decade or so, but I haven't kept up with municipal politics since then.
RipperGrim
Member
Dumb decision, especially for an event that's all about inclusion. Especially when you take into consideration that it was American politics that started this in the first place.
Hating police just because they are police is just more ignorance.
Hating police just because they are police is just more ignorance.
Prax
Member
I think police relations are not as eruptive here compared to the US, but things always get dicey when authority and those considered minorities or outsiders get mixed up.
Still, it's disappointing to read.
I hope they'll be able to reach a higher level of discussion and have the police included in the event again. Maybe it's more a way to generate leverage and dicussion between this BLM chapter and the police.
Still, it's disappointing to read.
I hope they'll be able to reach a higher level of discussion and have the police included in the event again. Maybe it's more a way to generate leverage and dicussion between this BLM chapter and the police.
We have issues here too. The G20 protests immediately spring to mind, and the Toronto police do use profiling.
I'm a 40 year old straight white dude, so my opinion on the matter might not be worth much.
stuminus3
Member
I struggle with my opinion on the subject of Pride banning police floats, but this is Canadian politics, in Canada. It's incredibly naive to believe it's not.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Honestly, I think BLM is at least more relevant than Queers Against Israeli Apartheid or whatever thy called themselves.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Shitty decision. Can't exclude the cops. That solves nothing. Gotta learn how to work together without making assumptions.
Overall, positive. Especially compared to their American counterparts. There have been issues, but it's much tamer and scrutinized appropriately. Action and corrections are usually made in line when criticized. I think over the summer, the police unit wanted new gear and vehicles that were militarized in appearance. Many people and outlets criticized them for taking the fear approach rather than the pillar of the community type style they have. They reverted quickly.
This is mostly BLM crying foul over something that doesn't exist in Toronto. But it's trendy and catches on because of what is happening in US cities. It's not a step in the right direction.
Relations between the Black community and Police are far from perfect in Canada. It's not nearly as severe as in the US but there's definitely room for improvement.
That said, it was pretty great to see how the police handled this incident:
http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/woman-who...-york-intersection-won-t-be-charged-1.3226091
mullet2000
Member
This really sucks. The police being in the parade with a float and supporting it has been an iconic part of the parade for the past few years. Photos of it were shared all over the place + made news, and were well liked, including here on GAF!
Short sighted and poor decision imo. I think it meant a lot to a lot of people to see the police supporting the parade so directly, even to gay communities outside of Canada.
Short sighted and poor decision imo. I think it meant a lot to a lot of people to see the police supporting the parade so directly, even to gay communities outside of Canada.
Perfect Blue
Banned
Sad, but unsurprising. Really liked the police taking part in Pride.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
While I agree that there's always a struggle with minorities, I don't think excluding them from Pride is going to improve the situation.
If anything, including cops in all discussion and letting them know civilly will only make the issue more human. Add face to it. Let them know and see how well or how poorly the situation is handled. You're no better than the cops for removing them, as if it's some "victory". Quite embarrassing, actually and can only make things worse.
Mammoth Jones
Member
They should show up anyway and march in protest. Who are the parade organizers gonna call to stop em?
SamuelSupreme
Banned
This post here validates everything BLM TO want to accomplish. People have this silly perception that Police profiling and brutality are an American exclusive thing.
I speak as a Black Man living in the GTA. In my 26 Years of life, Ive been stopped frequently for the dumbest of reasons, I have been carded while doing nothing wrong or illegal and Ive been the victim of illegal searches.
Have you heard of Jermaine Carby? An innocent black man that was carded and then gunned down by Toronto police. Theres a lot of bullshit surrounding the investigation and BLM has been critical on shining a light on all of this.
This also ignores the Police's sordid history with the LGBT community, specifically the bath house raids of the 1980s.
2 steps forward 3 steps back. Is how I would describe it.
ThreePiMatt
Member
How are you supposed to improve relations between two groups if those two groups can't interact with each other at a friendly, celebratory gathering? This is beyond stupid.
Jermaine Carby was not an innocent man.
(It also wasn't Toronto Police that shot him)
I don't think I can support this. I am appalled at our current police state we have in the States, but banning the police from a parade doesn't seem very constructive. They exist whether we like their current state or not, and by the way, are needed.
I just don't think this is the way.
I just don't think this is the way.
No please, finish the thought. I want to make sure I understand what your argument is here. So yah..... what?
This is the first time BLM has done something that is lost on me. I'm normally the only white guy at the table willing to voice support for them, but I really don't understand the point of this. Is any sort of police activity now something to protest, regardless of the context?
Phrozenflame500
Member
Indeed. Police reform is a valid goal, but it shouldn't be done by isolating and vilifying the police entirely.
But doesn't this actually make it all the more meaningful when the police participates in the parade now? I'm not really sure what this accomplishes.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I would argue the decentralization of BLM has allowed the movement to be hijacked by radicals that serve to confirm conservative stereotypes of black activism, which is not to say the movement has not done genuine good.
So yah, don't support them just because you support BLM as a whole. Individual groups can still be garbage.
metalslimer
Member
I still don't support this when the police are trying to establish a good relationship with the community. It especially sucks for LGBT officers.
Agreed. There's issues that need addressing, there always is, but this only galvanizes everyone involved.
Do you think racism stops at the border?
ginger ninja
Banned
Good. Snowflakes need to be protected from seeing all the big bad policemen that are just out to persecute them. /s
Honestly, where does even meaningful dialogue even begin when you're trying pretend the other side doesn't exist ?
And if this is done to provide something along the lines of a 'safe space' then that's even worse. Imagine limiting public space to certain people because of what seems to be offensive to some other groups.
Honestly, where does even meaningful dialogue even begin when you're trying pretend the other side doesn't exist ?
And if this is done to provide something along the lines of a 'safe space' then that's even worse. Imagine limiting public space to certain people because of what seems to be offensive to some other groups.
Canadian cops still have a code of silence, still disproportionately harass black citizens, and still treat native persons like shit.
The whole group? I don't understand.
mullet2000
Member
Which is why establishing better relations and community interaction between cops and minority groups is a good thing and would aid in reducing that disproportional harassment.
That said person is deplorable and not worth torontos time. This is only going to hurt relations with police. This isnt fucking america
Then the "good ones" can speak up and start reforming the department instead of going "look, we're in the parade! but as soon as we get off this float i'mma look the other way when Steve starts beating you up"
No need to take this thread to an ugly place. Most of the thread seems to agree this is not a good idea. Let's not pretend there isn't a real problem with police and Black relations. Also the word safe-space has lost all purpose when both sides equally have people looking for safe spaces.
BLM toronto is not the same BLM in the states. It is run by radicals with deplorable views
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
No, it doesn't. Please don't get me wrong. I think I started my conversation wrong. I just think distancing cops will make them that much of an authority figure rather than a human behind the uniform that you can talk to.
I'm definitely for this movement, but rejecting their presence when they mean good is wrong. Reject them when their inclusion does harm, and there has been no harm in the past decade. If anything, Pride T.O. and Peel Police need to stand together and say enough is enough. Use this platform to voice the concern, not remove them outright and shout at them through a microphone.
I just want to make sure you're not conflating one person's flaws with the core message of BLM. I don't want to assume that's what you're doing, but your comments are skirting pretty close to it.
Edit: based on your last reply that's exactly what you're doing. Good to know, have fun with that.
I dont think banning police from the pride prade is good for anyone. Like I have said BLM toronto is its own entity and if its founders are radicals then they should not be listened to
They are threatening to disrupt the event again if their demands aren't met.
- Status