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Pride Toronto votes to remove police floats and marches

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G

ginger ninja

Banned
rjinaz said:
No need to take this thread to an ugly place. Most of the thread seems to agree this is not a good idea. Let's not pretend there isn't a real problem with police and Black relations. Also the word safe-space has lost all purpose when both sides equally have people looking for safe spaces.
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It is not my intention and I hope nobody takes it that way but this one demand of not seeing cops in uniform at the event is right up there with the topic of sensitivity. What does this actually achieve beyond implying that all cops are bad ?

We got issues between the cops and community. How do we solve them ? By wishing away all the cops from our sight. I applaud whoever came up with the idea.
 
B

Boylamite

Member
the1npc said:
I dont think banning police from the pride prade is good for anyone. Like I have said BLM toronto is its own entity and if its founders are radicals then they should not be listened to
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I agree with your first point absolutely. Now you're saying founders.
 
1

13randO

Member
There haven't been any good reasons as to why BLM want cops to not represent themselves in the parade (if there is a statement regarding as to why, please link it, as I haven't seen any concise one). This doesn't seem like the way to work for a reform of the current treatment of black people by law enforcement or for the support of black homosexuals; in fact it seems like a step backwards if anything. Why try to push them out? Where is the reasoning?
 
M

Moppeh

Banned
For those interested in reading more reactions, we had a thread about their sit-in earlier this year:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1242444&highlight=blm+toronto

My opinion hasn't changed. The fight for inclusivity is important but the legitimacy of the BLM is lessened when they spend their time fighting to exclude groups like the police from participating and continuing to have a positive presence at Pride.

13randO said:
There haven't been any good reasons as to why BLM want cops to not represent themselves in the parade (if there is a statement regarding as to why, please link it, as I haven't seen any concise one). This doesn't seem like the way to work for a reform of the current treatment of black people by law enforcement or for the support of black homosexuals; in fact it seems like a step backwards if anything. Why try to push them out? Where is the reasoning?
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I was wondering about this too. I read a bit into their reasoning then there was the sit-in and I'll gladly read any statements they gave about this to gain further insight.

Sadly, this chapter of BLM just seems to be anti-police for the sake of it, or at the very least, seems to be in this particular instance.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Just a reminder that BLM is not a monolith. It is a movement, with different people and even different ideals doing things. There is no business center, there are no official statements as a unified one group.

I think in this instance the people of that particular chapter are wrong.
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
13randO said:
There haven't been any good reasons as to why BLM want cops to not represent themselves in the parade (if there is a statement regarding as to why, please link it, as I haven't seen any concise one). This doesn't seem like the way to work for a reform of the current treatment of black people by law enforcement or for the support of black homosexuals; in fact it seems like a step backwards if anything.
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To be fair, the rest of their demands does focus on queer Black issues (mainly more representation and logistical support).
 
1

13randO

Member
Dalibor68 said:
Huh. How are police relations over there? Someone from Toronto around?
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Racial profiling does happen here. I had it happen to a friend just a couple of weeks ago for literally no reason (he was ID'd on the way to work). I haven't been harassed by police before personally though, so I can't speak from experience (I'm a Caribbean brown dude in my early 20s).
 
1

13randO

Member
firehawk12 said:
To be fair, the rest of their demands does focus on queer Black issues (mainly more representation and logistical support).
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For sure, and those demands seem to come for a reasonable place (as it said in the GN segment on the matter, funding for black queer support was their first priority). But why the police ban? That's the demand that's making the headline and rightly so. In the segment, the BLM rep kept repeating himself: 'Come to the parade, but don't do it in uniform.' WHY, my dude?
 
T

the1npc

Member
Boylamite said:
I agree with your first point absolutely. Now you're saying founders.
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Of course Im saying founders when one of then believe black people to be superior due to increased melanin and the other is being sued for forging over time hours so she can steal from U of T. Her defence is that questioning her is oppressive....i cant support these clowns. Of course I care about BLM as a whole but like I have said many times BLM is not one entity and its ok for individual parts of it to be scrutinized
 
G

Galang

Banned
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew said:
Such a stupid decision. Don't bring your American politics into Canada. Cops are quite nice here in Toronto, and do so much more for the community.

Their inclusion was always a fun and warming gathering. They are always a sign of security and confidence for LGBT community. Good job putting them in a bad picture and potentially dehumanizing the situation.

WTF does BLM have to do with Canada?Did I miss some news on police biased violence on black in Canada? And what does that have to do with LGBT/Pride Community?
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Just what? Racism doesn't only exist in america and it's not like the members of the LGBTQ community don't also have to deal with racism either. BLM isn't just about violence, but I actually don't agree with removing the police floats during the pride march.
 
S

Sec0nd

Member
Kraftwerk said:
"LGBTQ2S"
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Man, that acronym is getting unwieldier by the day. Looks like a cat just walked across the keyboard. They should come up with some kind of different term that will encompass the entire community. Just the Pride community or whatever.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
such a dumb ass move.

Keeping the police close to community is the best way to create ties

this just enforces the ''us versus them'' mentality
 
B

Breads

Banned
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew said:
Such a stupid decision. Don't bring your American politics into Canada. Cops are quite nice here in Toronto, and do so much more for the community.

Their inclusion was always a fun and warming gathering. They are always a sign of security and confidence for LGBT community. Good job putting them in a bad picture and potentially dehumanizing the situation.

WTF does BLM have to do with Canada? Did I miss some news on police biased violence on black in Canada? And what does that have to do with LGBT/Pride Community?
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Ask the BLM Toronto community. This is what they fought for.

Though, admittedly, this seems like an asinine move. I thought BLM Toronto dropped this as a point of interest within the week of their last Pride parade protest.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2016/11/17/critics-of-new-carding-policy-destroy-the-data.html

Carding just ended in Ontario THIS MONTH, after it was determined police were racially profiling people to stop. Even now, police will not destroy the data they collected under the now repudiated carding policy.

Toronto is nice, but it's not a post-racial utopia in any fashion.

BLM was given an honory spot as one of the leading groups at Pride. They accepted this position and used it to demonstrate agaisnt Pride itself for their past failures to include black members of the LGBTQ community.

A lot of people did not like BLM's actions as Pride worked with them in organising the parade and BLM hid their intentions from Pride in order to further their own agenda during another group's demonstration.
 
Oppo

Oppo

Member
really stupid move man. BLM Toronto is gonna Greenpeace themselves.

also – what do they suppose a gay black cop is supposed to make of this?
 
S

Senoculum

Member
Very ass backwards. I don't like it one bit. Integrating the police with the community is what it's all about. I suggest the Torontonian BLM members to readjust their priorities.

It appears that BLM has forgotten all the prejudice the LGBT community received in the 80s in Toronto. Does this sound like progress to them? What's their definition of a good cop?
 
W

wamberz1

Member
There is no place on earth that is free of racism. No matter where you go, stereotyping will follow. Toronto, and Canada, are absolutely no exception. Pushing towards a more inclusive society is a noble goal, and one I respect both BLM and the pride community for.

However, this makes absolutely no sense. Yes, Toronto police have done wrong in the past, and they need to be reminded of it and taken to charge so they can correct themselves for the future. However, this will not accomplish that in the slightest. It will only worsen the relationship between Toronto authority and BLM (and by extension, the black community).

This isn't reform for the future, it's meaningless, petty punishment and revenge.
 
A

Apathy

Member
It's a terrible decision. Having the police involved increased the ties the community had with them. The lgbt community here feels safe with the police, something that can't be said for a lot of places. That's because of decades of work to push for changing the police force and their integration with the lgbt community. Pride now decides to ruin that. Nicely done.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
Flux said:
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edi...d-welcome-police-participation-editorial.html

"The current board of Pride and BLMTO cannot put the milk back in the bag." - best comment

After reading more articles, I'm fine with BLM TO protesting with stuff (but not their hate filled co-founder). I just don't get how fighting for inclusivity allows you barge into another group's event (Pride), co-opt its purpose, and kick out a big part of the event.
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Exactly how I feel about this. Pride parade was about LGBT pride but BLM, in my opinion, just caused a stink at it because it was a very public event to get their message across.

I'm not a supporter of doing this, but it's on Pride parade organizers for allowing it.
 
C

Cyanity

Banned
As a supporter of the BLM movement and a member of the LGBT community, this seems like an incredibly stupid decision. What were they thinking???
 
A

AlphaDump

Gold Member
Cyanity said:
As a supporter of the BLM movement and a member of the LGBT community, this seems like an incredibly stupid decision. What were they thinking???
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It is to cause conflict and fracture.. There really is no other explanation.


Lets peel back the leadership and start tracing who is making the decisions. Ive looked into BLM and i still dont know shit about it because the information is a bit hard to find..

Hmm
 
S

SRG01

Member
Moppeh said:
My opinion hasn't changed. The fight for inclusivity is important but the legitimacy of the BLM is lessened when they spend their time fighting to exclude groups like the police from participating and continuing to have a positive presence at Pride.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that police participation -- very different than police presence -- has been an extremely gesture of goodwill that BLM is willing to destroy for reasons unknown.
 
Z

Zips

Member
Absolutely stupid decision.

Who can we complain to in order to get the decision reversed? Or the executive board is still weighing it? So we should message them? This is so moronic and unproductive it gives me a headache.
 
A

Apathy

Member
Zips said:
Absolutely stupid decision.

Who can we complain to in order to get the decision reversed? This is so moronic and unproductive it gives me a headache.
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Pride toronto, but good luck with that. They are in a position now that even with the backlash from the larger community, if they went back on this, BLM would call them racist and oppressive
 
Z

Zips

Member
Apathy said:
Pride toronto, but good luck with that. They are in a position now that even with the backlash from the larger community, if they went back on this, BLM would call them racist and oppressive
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Whatever. Screw that BLM section. They stuck their noses into this unrelated event and demanded pointless things that do absolutely zero good. They can bugger off.
 
A

Albino_Yeti

Member
ginger ninja said:
Good. Snowflakes need to be protected from seeing all the big bad policemen that are just out to persecute them. /s

Honestly, where does even meaningful dialogue even begin when you're trying pretend the other side doesn't exist ?
And if this is done to provide something along the lines of a 'safe space' then that's even worse. Imagine limiting public space to certain people because of what seems to be offensive to some other groups.
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Don't have to imagine it. The Nazis did it when they introduced Jewish ghettos. Not that I'm comparing the two groups, just a comment on that particular statement.
On the topic at hand, I agree with many in this thread that it's a dumb decision. Time will tell if this hurts their cause or not.
 
Z

Zips

Member
A Link to the Past said:
I don't really agree with this decision, but hot damn is it unfortunate that a lot of people are downplaying problems in Canadian policing.
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There are problems, of course. There always will be things that can be worked on. What this stupid decision does is remove a line of communication and support. Now they are separate, staring at each other from across the aisle with one less way to remind each other they are all human and can work together.

Messaged the board. If all the stupid decisions going on in the world are going to force me to start being more active on this stuff, so be it. Damn tired of the stupidity going on.
 
U

unpopularblargh

Member
Flux said:
https://www.thestar.com/opinion/edi...d-welcome-police-participation-editorial.html

"The current board of Pride and BLMTO cannot put the milk back in the bag." - best comment

After reading more articles, I'm fine with BLM TO protesting with stuff (but not their hate filled co-founder). I just don't get how fighting for inclusivity allows you barge into another group's event (Pride), co-opt its purpose, and kick out a big part of the event.
Click to expand...

BLM TO has significant number of its members who are part of the LGBTQ community so nothing was co-opted. Also this was done through vote by members of Pride Toronto.
 
S

Sushi Nao

Member
TheChaos said:
Absolutely nobody is saying this, dude. Nice reaching.
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Tough not to see a bunch of people reflexively lunging to assuage the feelings of the police as a fundamental dismissal of black people's validity of opinion

If they're not working for the WHOLE community, they don't deserve to be included
 
K

knkng

Member
I was upset when they originally made this demand, and now I'm just furious that Pride Toronto has actually given in to it. Absolute bullshit.

I've been attending Toronto Pride for many years now, and the police have always been an overwhelmingly positive presence at the parade. The best part is, apparently the LGBT community doesn't even get a say in the matter. BLM now has the power to restrict who participates in an LGBT event.

Hey, here's another idea. How about we ban all practising Catholics from the parade because of the actions of the Vatican! At least that would be somewhat relatable to an LGBT situation.

Fucking bullshit.
 
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