Johnny Concrete
Member
That dude is a troll.
Pro character designer breaks down and fixes Concord character designs
- Thread starter Edmund
- Start date
Damn that dude is great, that was legit one of the most educational videos, and best communicated design tutorials I've watched in ages
Nikodemos
Member
The fundamental issue, which the "new" school of (Western) character design totally flubs, is that people DO NOT WANT to play as 'themselves'. At least, not the people regularly playing video games. It's really about escapism.
I, as a somewhat chubbier guy, don't want to play as myself, but more physically capable. I wanna be motherfucking Kratos when I rip fools' heads off.
A coomer doesn't want to play as [der_coomer.jpg], he wants to ogle Nier 2B's or Stellar Blade Eve's ass.
None of the designs offer either an outright power fantasy, or erotic titillation. The male models closest to the yardstick all have issues: the blue gorilla-ish guy looks like X-Men's The Beast with alopecia and a bad case of sunburn, the "everyman" guy has a somewhat dweeby vibe, while the green guy kinda smells of "fuccboi". And there are precisely 0 classically attractive women.
I, as a somewhat chubbier guy, don't want to play as myself, but more physically capable. I wanna be motherfucking Kratos when I rip fools' heads off.
A coomer doesn't want to play as [der_coomer.jpg], he wants to ogle Nier 2B's or Stellar Blade Eve's ass.
None of the designs offer either an outright power fantasy, or erotic titillation. The male models closest to the yardstick all have issues: the blue gorilla-ish guy looks like X-Men's The Beast with alopecia and a bad case of sunburn, the "everyman" guy has a somewhat dweeby vibe, while the green guy kinda smells of "fuccboi". And there are precisely 0 classically attractive women.
DoubleClutch
Banned
Artistic quality is sacrificed at the alter of DEI. Special care must be taken to not offend anyone and to make sure everyone is included. That's why everything seems like generic, uninspired trash.
Nikodemos
Member
Thing is, DEI-adjacent designs could work, as long as they're heavily stylized towards a "warm" presentation, like Overwatch characters. "Grounded" designs + "muted" color palette = San Francisco hobo aesthetic. Which isn't something many people want in their virtual personas.
DoubleClutch
Banned
"DEI-adjacent designs"? Sorry man, just like pronouns, genders, and the like, it's hard for me to keep up with this stuff. Especially when we seem to be making it up as we go along.
KaiserBecks
Member
Implying they actually went to classes instead of protesting outside.
Gojiira
Member
Oh man and what a ass Eve has my gawd…Just wack on the prototype suit and watch everything bounce and jiggle
I am content, the fact the game is also excellent is just the cherry on top
Fess
Member
You think the artists can do whatever they want?
Didn't you see the tweet where an artist complained about how often they make a design concept and when it comes out on the other side of board meetings etc as a real model it's been downgraded into something entirely different?
I can try find the tweet
Last edited:
Nikodemos
Member
Well, it's pretty obvious they tried to make them (their version of) "inclusive" (whatever that means currently). There's no overt 8-pack beefcake, vtuber-style animu waifu (a la ZZZ), or old-school-pin-up eyecandy.
Throttle
Member
Then fuck them
Throttle
Member
My God, so much better. You can clearly see it is still the same characters, but I don't feel the repulse.
Lukaku's First Touch
Member
For Concord to be a game no one is playing it gets a lot of attention around here
People love a good trainwreck. You don't want to be in a car crash but you can be damn sure I'll look at it when I drive past.
Fess
Member
Yeah this guy gets it, and if that's done with AI then bring on AI in game development
Timberwolf25
Member
Well you know that he wasn't normal. Unless you think serial killers that are so obsessed and uncomfortable in their own skin that they go to the extent of kidnapping/killing thicc girls so that they can harvest their skin to make a girl suit is normal?Well thats not going to be everyone, I'd argue even saying "just want normal" seems odd, they want a character that basically has nothing unique? lol
Thats like saying this isn't allowed
I mean, "most just want normal" lol
So...like what you like, but I don't get this whole "most just want" I don't know what "most" want, the artist should create what they want and if you like it, cool, if you don't, thats fine too. I don't think anyone though should be advocating for just "normal" and then start crying about boring designs lol
So I'm fine with the freedom to create anything even if it results in some flops, better that then some odd by the books, by the numbers type game seeking to make "normal" as not to offend. So I'm fine with artist creating how they want and taking that risk, personally didn't see anything wrong with any of those designs and don't see anything to "fix" , all of this comes down to subjectivity, there is no right or wrong or fix or correct or anything here.
It just is.
If someone doesn't like it, I have no issue with it, its when folks start trying to force this idea of "fix" or "correct", the only people that know what its suppose to be, is the artist. They decide what it is or isn't, using this dumb logic, it would be rejecting the design of the Simpsons cause I mean, its not "normal" cause people are not Yellow, it forces this idea to conform, copy the same designs that exist and tries to attack and harass everyone to create a certain way.
So I want this level of freedom in gaming, as we have in other art forms, if someone doesn't like it, they are free to play something else, but artist do not need to conform or alter their work for anyone.
That was a good movie though
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
3BSkyen has made a video about concord and he worked professionally as an artist. He's got nice insights.
Last edited:
Nikodemos
Member
When he mentioned that the purple lady is an engineer I audibly went 'WTF'. Like... dude, bro, she has the Goa'uld gauntlet! Her design screams "big risk big reward glass cannon", and she's a support?!?
Last edited:
ResilientBanana
Member
I mean, that's a little too far in the other direction, isn't it?There's a simpler fix that would also work as a marketing stunt:
In the initial video he said on Steam and Xbox. What?
Last edited:
Timberwolf25
Member
That's why I said he trolls while making valid points.
Seems to be his MO judging by his other vids.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
You're assuming they studied art formally in the first place?
Kokoloko85
Member
There is so much more that is needed to change the character designs.
Apart from Haymar, Vale and Roka, they all need big changes or complete changes in looks. Jibali could do without the glasses and a change of clothes etc, the rest… major or complete changes. Awful designs. Really enjoyed the gameplay though
Change those, get rid of the woke stuff and the negativity on the game would 80% be gone and people would at least try it lol
Apart from Haymar, Vale and Roka, they all need big changes or complete changes in looks. Jibali could do without the glasses and a change of clothes etc, the rest… major or complete changes. Awful designs. Really enjoyed the gameplay though
Change those, get rid of the woke stuff and the negativity on the game would 80% be gone and people would at least try it lol
Last edited:
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
Turning every character into a sexy lady, while evoking a far less intense revulsion as the actual Concord characters, it's not the right answer in most of those cases; it certainly is in some.
Part of the problem with this "fix" is that in most cases it still retains the godawful colour scheme as the original, as well as many of the shitty visual design elements. So, retaining all that while making the character into a sexy lady doesn't prevent the result from still seeming ultra generic, despite being far less objectionable than the original.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Nothing awful about the color scheme, it's just vibrant
th4tguy
Member
I know this is a joke.....but I would play this. It's almost instantly more interesting to me, without knowing any other details about the game.I've fixed the game for Sony. I expect payment
Nikodemos
Member
Muted pastels aren't really vibrant, they give off a grungy vibe, like plastic deck furniture left out in the sun too long.
3BSkyen's critic of the "tanky" lady is a good example. Her armor looks grimy and slap-dash, like somebody took hockey goalie/gridiron bash gear and tried to bodge it into some sort of cosplay armor with spray paint.
And Joe McShooty wears the same gridiron gear, except unpainted.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
The Concord character colour schemes are absolute dog shite. The video in the OP is essentially a pro character designer saying pretty much the same thing.
ZoukGalaxy
Member
There is nothing to fix because everything is good for trash.
Tams
Member
Last edited:
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Not saying that at all, clearly they are contracted by a company to create something within the limits of what that company allows
I'm saying within those limits, they are free to create normal and unnormal as they feel just. Keep in mind, I'm including the directors and higher ups, they decide what that is and isn't in regards to what its suppose to be. Would be like me trying to tell you what your book is and isn't.
Only you can tell me what your book is or isn't Fess (and only you can prevent forest fires lol)
edit and not disrespect Fess, but I don't care about someone's tweet, unless that was from someone who made this game, I don't care. Thats like some SJW saying they had a wild interaction on Twitter with some racist developer and then keeps using the tweet to attack games, even ones that have nothing to do with said developer.
It reaches to try to force this conversation that, this person said this, apply it to this other game they never worked on. Unless someone directly to the game we are talking about made those statements, I don't care and any comments seeking this strawman will be ignored.
lol I was actually pointing out that he wasn't normal.
The idea that people like the odd, the weird, the strange and wish to take a peak into those lives, they make interesting characters and if someone argued some idea that folks just wanted "normal" and nothing else, we'd not have such amazing novels (that turn into great films)
I just happen to be watching that film as I was going thru this thread and felt it was funny when
Fess
stated that lol I get they are different mediums, but both should be free to explore what they want with creating different characters.
Last edited:
Hugare
Member
"Let me check the work of this pro character designer before listening to ONE HOUR of some random dude rumbling"
Yeah, we have a Pro here, guys.
See how unique these designs are?
The headphone on the blonde guy, giving him some personality. Just brilliant. Same for the glasses on the pink haired girl, masterful.
And what to say about the mentally impaired black guy? Points for inclusivity.
Dude knows what he is talking about
Yeah, we have a Pro here, guys.
See how unique these designs are?
The headphone on the blonde guy, giving him some personality. Just brilliant. Same for the glasses on the pink haired girl, masterful.
And what to say about the mentally impaired black guy? Points for inclusivity.
Dude knows what he is talking about
Last edited:
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
Agreed.
As an artist, I don't see anything wrong with the contrast or character designs or anything like that. I felt some of the strongest stuff in this game was ironically that, the game's main issue is its in a crowded market, it doesn't look to offer something that much different gameplay wise then what is already out and its marketing is quite odd.
Like some cartoon trailer and then another trailer that is narrative focused, all this does is confuse the audience on what the game actually is. So those of us that see Sony in the beginning and then get this great looking trailer about some space type bandits, imagine later you find out its a MP title
Any hype they had, is gone and the market that could be hyped, doesn't know this exist as a MP title yet.
So maybe the trailer should have been about the direct gameplay stuff you actually do in the game and its focus should 100% be on marketing to people that play those games, so off bat those that like online MP shooter type games are being focused on.
Not only that, they marketed the title very little.
The beta should have been free from the jump, you need as many as you can with this, this team is not that well known to really think someone must pre-order the game to get into something like that.
This was just a rollercoaster of issues and to get into the MP market, you need to hit the ground running. That genre is extremely competitive and its not like its as easy as saying replicate what happened with Helldivers 2
Thats like trying to ask Activision to replicate Call Of Duty (they have yet to successfully do that) So hopefully all of this is factored into how Sony rolls out their next MP game.
Umbral
Member
They may not have put it clearly enough, but I think you know what they're getting at by normal, unless you're being deliberately obtuse. I don't think you are though.Well thats not going to be everyone, I'd argue even saying "just want normal" seems odd, they want a character that basically has nothing unique? lol
Thats like saying this isn't allowed
I mean, "most just want normal" lol
So...like what you like, but I don't get this whole "most just want" I don't know what "most" want, the artist should create what they want and if you like it, cool, if you don't, thats fine too. I don't think anyone though should be advocating for just "normal" and then start crying about boring designs lol
So I'm fine with the freedom to create anything even if it results in some flops, better that then some odd by the books, by the numbers type game seeking to make "normal" as not to offend. So I'm fine with artist creating how they want and taking that risk, personally didn't see anything wrong with any of those designs and don't see anything to "fix" , all of this comes down to subjectivity, there is no right or wrong or fix or correct or anything here.
It just is.
If someone doesn't like it, I have no issue with it, its when folks start trying to force this idea of "fix" or "correct", the only people that know what its suppose to be, is the artist. They decide what it is or isn't, using this dumb logic, it would be rejecting the design of the Simpsons cause I mean, its not "normal" cause people are not Yellow, it forces this idea to conform, copy the same designs that exist and tries to attack and harass everyone to create a certain way.
So I want this level of freedom in gaming, as we have in other art forms, if someone doesn't like it, they are free to play something else, but artist do not need to conform or alter their work for anyone.
I believe you're leaning a little too much into the artist mindset and not the commercial or average person mindset. Artists should be free to create, but if your goal is to sell a product then there will be some degree of standardization for characters. There are design rules and guidelines for a reason. Throughout all of our time here on this planet we've learned and written down rules for what works best, in many different disciplines. This doesn't mean that someone shouldn't go outside the lines. That is an artist's purpose, but there is great risk that comes with that.
I don't think anyone here is asking that no risks be taken. I think it comes down to the artist missing the mark, whether from hubris, stubbornness, or lack of skill. Whoever it was, and their art director, simply missed. Why is up for debate. There is subjectivity in art, like many things in life, but there is also an element of objectivity that gets brushed aside or denied by creatives. Certain compositions work better than others for certain things. Color theory. Shape language. Cohesion. Form following function. It is not all down to whatever the artist wants, even though it is.
Last edited:
EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
I disagree, they very much state this.
"most just want normal and cool characters without disabilities and gender confusion"
Well...sir, this depends on what is even being made, like the example given, using this odd logic, Silence Of The Lambs shouldn't have Buffalo Bill and Red Dragon shouldn't have Tooth Fairy.
There is no 1 size fits all, no "standardization" can exist with something like this.
The character being made is subject to change based on what the game actually is and what the artist wants.
Sure, but from what I've read in these threads, a massive amount of limitation is being argued in favor of "normal" instead of just facing that not every game is for you. This is like crying over a religious book and asking for it to fit some "standard" based on what you believe (oooooooooorrrrrrr read a different book)
I don't think the industry needs anything you've stated, I think a game like this is free to fail and consumers are free to purchase something else, but the last thing i''d want to see from this is a industry seeking to take fewer risk and put in some copy and paste design based on fear of being attacked for being different.
So I don't know if in this industry we get a Breaking Bad where his son is like this. This is done for the narrative cause Walter has problems beyond just his cancer, his son has health issues, his wife is cheating on him lol But hey, he isn't "normal" and shit, we need to put in that standard and make sure they are free of disabilities.
lol i kid, but I'm also making a point here.
Let the industry freely decide and let those artist have the freedom to just create those characters how they feel just. I get you are saying you are ok with risk, then sir...be ok with risk lol
Fess
Member
Okay you won't care then but it was an industry vet talking about black respresentation, from his experience beautiful black female characters were very difficult to pitch without them coming back boring by the end.