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[Joe Shlabotnik]

Damn. I told myself not to check the thread but curiosity got the better of me. I had a lot more responses planned, but it isn't worth getting into it. I will say however...

As Erigu mentioned, either get into the discussion or don't. The one-foot-in hokey-pokey technique is annoying.

Uh, what? Who quoted me and got all worked about it? You. Look, I am not actively trying to prove their opinion wrong. I don't care, but I will say that I disagree. I simply wanted to state that after seeing the film that while I don't think its perfect, it isn't "nearly" the mess people are trying to tell everyone it is, like B_Rik. Really? Flyers and TV time? Come on... I disagree with people about the film, but I'm not insulting anyone. We move on. If you don't like the film, so be it. Doesn't affect my life. I'd sure like to see a sequel though!

Saying people were "desperately trying to spread" what you felt was misinformation about the movie sounded weird and paranoid. You have a strange way of phrasing things, I guess.

By the way, I called the thread ridiculous because this thread is all over the place. It was a jestful comment (albeit I could've been more clear), but you don't need to get worked up about it. I don't see much difference than going into a thread that has been hijacked by a photoshop spree and posting that same comment, and then participating in it.

Unless you think a large number of critical opinions is a "thread hijack" I don't get the comparison. I think there was a brief James Cameron detour recently but most of the thread has been discussing the film directly, mostly about its problems.

And yes, the film does look phenomenal. I wish more films has the aesthetic look of this film, because though it was very sci-fi, it felt really natural. Ridley Scott knows how to make good looking films. I'd like to know what camera he and the DP used for the movie because it has such a clean image. By the way, the opening sequence... amazing.

The entire film was shot with Red Epic digital cameras.

 

[MeBecomingI]

Alright, whatever. This is getting silly and I'm not going to get worked up about it or argue semantics anymore, so I'm not going to bother debating each other about this because it won't serve any purpose other than taking things off track even further and it'll go on and on. Think what you want, it doesn't matter. I came in, stated my thoughts on the film which had points of discussion, expressed my disagreement with people but in no way did I say "misinformation."

I have contributed to the discussion and I'm not playing some technique you think I am, but I'm sure you already know that. I'll leave it at that.

Also, thank you for the camera information. I had a thought that it might be Red cameras (a friend is a filmmaker and talked about it at somepoint), but I wasn't sure. They are amazing pieces of equipment. I wouldn't mind seeing everything shot with them... Ridley used them well. Also, as a part of the aesthetic of the film, I greatly appreciated the use of practical effects. Not used as often as it should be.

 

[Truant]

It's funny how this thread is alive even though GAF hates the film. The Watchmen thread died instadeath after the film hit theaters.

 

[Truant]

Here's what I think went wrong.

Ridley Scott is old.
He wanted something fresh.
He probably heard a few years ago that Lost was fresh.
He contacts the writer of Lost.
Not quite sure he wants, he asks for a fresh take on the Alien series.
The writer of Lost isn't quite sure what to do, so he does what he does best with what he has.
Production starts, and everyone shuts the fuck up since Ridley Scott is doing another Alien film.
Prometheus is released to mixed reviews and bad word-of-mouth.

 

[anonymous_abc]

hehe,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFYmv6t_Xyg&feature=player_embedded

sorry if old

 

[Solo]

It's funny how this thread is alive even though GAF hates the film. The Watchmen thread died instadeath after the film hit theaters.

Yeah, I don't get it. As bad as Watchmen was (and it was bad), there was still more in it worth talking about than anything in Prometheus.

 

[Tess3ract]

You should never feel defensive about being so easily entertained. It's a gift.

Oh dear, I just lol'd

 

[SteveWD40]

Here's what I think went wrong.

Ridley Scott is old.
He wanted something fresh.
He probably heard a few years ago that Lost was fresh.
He contacts the writer of Lost.
Not quite sure he wants, he asks for a fresh take on the Alien series.
The writer of Lost isn't quite sure what to do, so he does what he does best with what he has.
Production starts, and everyone shuts the fuck up since Ridley Scott is doing another Alien film.
Prometheus is released to mixed reviews and bad word-of-mouth.

All correct but that is the root of the problem right there. Even the best creators can pass their prime.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Here's what I think went wrong.

Ridley Scott is old.
He wanted something fresh.
He probably heard a few years ago that Lost was fresh.
He contacts the writer of Lost.

I think Scott had a shit ton of ideas before all this started, he then handed these ideas of to the writer (then the Lost guy when he took over writing) and it was never brought up that he wanted too many themes.

With Alien and BR what the point of it all was in place before Scott came on board.

 

[Mondriaan]

Here's what I think went wrong.

Ridley Scott is old.
He wanted something fresh.
He probably heard a few years ago that Lost was fresh.
He contacts the writer of Lost.
Not quite sure he wants, he asks for a fresh take on the Alien series.
The writer of Lost isn't quite sure what to do, so he does what he does best with what he has.
Production starts, and everyone shuts the fuck up since Ridley Scott is doing another Alien film.
Prometheus is released to mixed reviews and bad word-of-mouth.

We could make other parallels:
Weyland is old. Scott is old.
Weyland is interested in terraforming barren planets. Scott is interested in rebooting old franchises.
Weyland is interested in restoring his life/youth. Scott is interested in restoring his legacy.
Weyland gets clobbered by a giant albino alien. Scott gets clobbered by the critics.

 

[symphonask]

lol, good to see this thread hasn't stopped it's descendence into madness yet.

Too many themes isn't Prometheus' problem. There's the central theme of creation and that's it. Prometheus is quite a straightforward film. I think too many people are getting hung up on the mystery of the Engineers. It has some interesting parallels with the Prometheus myth and lots of religious symbolism but that's a good thing, makes the movie more interesting.

Also, being old does not mean a director cannot make good movies anymore. Look at Terence Malick for example. What if the new Blade Runner movie comes out and blows everyone away? It's a silly argument. If anything, Prometheus proved Ridley still has the directing chops for sci-fi aesthetics.

And no, movie did not receive a clobbering from critics. Critical reception has generally been favourable. It's a good summer sci - fi flick. People are are trying to hold it up to some impossible standard.

 

[ToxicAdam]

And no, movie did not receive a clobbering from critics. Critical reception has generally been favourable. It's a good summer sci - fi flick. People are are trying to hold it up to some impossible standard.

I think people wanted it to be at least be better than Avatar (not a real high bar, tbh) and it failed. Or if that comparison is not fair, at least match Event Horizon (another sci-fi/horror movie). A movie done with much less of a budget and talent behind it.

At least with Avatar, the main character had a discernable arc. Even the one-dimensional antagonists had some function in the storyline and had clear motivations for their actions. This is storytelling 101 and Prometheus failed across the board on these basics.

Even as ' a summer movie' it failed to excite me. Outside of the C-section scene, there wasn't really a time where I was on the edge of my seat. After that point the movie just keeps hurling nonsensical, non-sequitar scenes at you hoping you don't notice that there isn't much going on.

 

[Jokergrin]

yeah the direction was good, the problem was just the script

 

[symphonask]

I think people wanted it to be at least be better than Avatar (not a real high bar, tbh) and it failed. Or if that comparison is not fair, at least match Event Horizon (another sci-fi/horror movie). A movie done with much less of a budget and talent behind it.

At least with Avatar, the main character had a discernable arc. Even the one-dimensional antagonists had some function in the storyline and had clear motivations for their actions. This is storytelling 101 and Prometheus failed across the board on these basics.

Even as ' a summer movie' it failed to excite me. Outside of the C-section scene, there wasn't really a time where I was on the edge of my seat. After that point the movie just keeps hurling nonsensical non-sequitar scenes at you hoping you don't notice that there isn't much going on.

eh, I don't want turn this thread into an Avatar/Prometheus pissing match again, so I'll just say that while the protagonist in Avatar has an arc, the movie failed to interest me on any narrative level - so I don't care whether the characters had an arc or not. Prometheus has a more interesting premise and I thought it executed on that premise fairly well. Maybe it would have benefitted being more character driven and with standard hero's arc tropes, like Avatar, but I don't think that was the aim with this.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

eh, I don't want turn this thread into an Avatar/Prometheus pissing match again, so I'll just say that while the protagonist in Avatar has an arc, the movie failed to interest me on any narrative level - so I don't care whether the characters had an arc or not. Prometheus has a more interesting premise and I thought it executed on that premise fairly well. Maybe it would have benefitted being more character driven and with standard hero's arc tropes, like Avatar, but I don't think that was the aim with this.

What exactly was the premise?

 

[Double D]

Where's the best/cheapest place I can (legally) acquire Alien 3 digitally?

 

[Mondriaan]

And no, movie did not receive a clobbering from critics. Critical reception has generally been favourable. It's a good summer sci - fi flick. People are are trying to hold it up to some impossible standard.

Let me amend that then:
Scott gets clobbered by the huge Alien fandom menace.

 

[effzee]

lol, good to see this thread hasn't stopped it's descendence into madness yet.

Too many themes isn't Prometheus' problem. There's the central theme of creation and that's it. Prometheus is quite a straightforward film. I think too many people are getting hung up on the mystery of the Engineers. It has some interesting parallels with the Prometheus myth and lots of religious symbolism but that's a good thing, makes the movie more interesting.

Also, being old does not mean a director cannot make good movies anymore. Look at Terence Malick for example. What if the new Blade Runner movie comes out and blows everyone away? It's a silly argument. If anything, Prometheus proved Ridley still has the directing chops for sci-fi aesthetics.

And no, movie did not receive a clobbering from critics. Critical reception has generally been favourable. It's a good summer sci - fi flick. People are are trying to hold it up to some impossible standard.

That is my problem, that it isn't a straight forward film. Alien was straight forward. It introduces a concept but then quickly turns into a well executed monster movie. This move is all about the big ideas. The origins of life, the search for our creators (god/religion), how we as creators treat our creations, and etc etc.

If it was just a straightforward movie no one would bother pointing out the internal logic issues. In fact Alien has some of the same logic issues but its over looked because it never requires the viewer to ponder some big ideas crumbling from within due to a weak script.

 

[symphonask]

What exactly was the premise?

Land on mysterious planet to find answers to the origins of human life?


We need more movies that harken back to the golden age of sci-fi. Glad Scott at least tried to give it to us. Hopefully he gets to make his sequel.

That is my problem, that it isn't a straight forward film. Alien was straight forward. It introduces a concept but then quickly turns into a well executed monster movie. This move is all about the big ideas. The origins of life, the search for our creators (god/religion), how we as creators treat our creations, and etc etc.

If it was just a straightforward movie no one would bother pointing out the internal logic issues. In fact Alien has some of the same logic issues but its over looked because it never requires the viewer to ponder some big ideas crumbling from within due to a weak script.

Land on planet. Explore mysterious ruins. Things turn bad. Try and stop bad guy and get out.

What's not straightforward about that? It's just wrapped up in a package that asks some big questions, which is what all sci-fi should try to do. And all that's in the background anyway. Would you have been happier if the Engineers intentions were made clear and everything spelled out? I doubt it.

I'm first to admit that the movie has some writing and structure issues, but that doesn't stop it from being a fine piece of entertainment that's isn't forgotten the moment you walk out of the cinema, unlike most of the stuff we're served by Hollywood these days.

 

[effzee]

Land on mysterious planet to find answers to the origins of human life?


We need more movies that harken back to the golden age of sci-fi. Glad Scott at least tried to give it to us. Hopefully he gets to make his sequel.



Land on planet. Explore mysterious ruins. Things turn bad. Try and stop bad guy and get out.

What's not straightforward about that? It's just wrapped up in a package that asks some big questions, which is what all sci-fi should try to do. And all that's in the background anyway. Would you have been happier if the Engineers intentions were made clear and everything spelled out? I doubt it.

I'm first to admit that the movie has some writing and structure issues, but that doesn't stop it from being a fine piece of entertainment that's isn't forgotten the moment you walk out of the cinema, unlike most of the stuff we're served by Hollywood these days.

Listen I am not convincing you to dislike the movie nor is it my intent. Simply telling you why I couldn't completely love it even if I enjoyed it. It is not a straightforward movie. Not in the sense Alien is. Yes it is land on planet, things go bad, people die, and hero escapes. But that is the least of what it is. The bigger take away are the ideas introduced.

Now you can argue that more movies should ask these big interesting questions. I have no problem with that and I do find them interesting, but then I would want to questions to be addressed and presented properly.

I felt Prometheus introduced a bunch of ideas but never explains much, leaves too much up in the air and for the audience to deduce (mostly incorrectly), and those big ideas don't work because the little details and internal logic failed.

 

[symphonask]

Listen I am not convincing you to dislike the movie nor is it my intent. Simply telling you why I couldn't completely love it even if I enjoyed it. It is not a straightforward movie. Not in the sense Alien is. Yes it is land on planet, things go bad, people die, and hero escapes. But that is the least of what it is. The bigger take away are the ideas introduced.

Now you can argue that more movies should ask these big interesting questions. I have no problem with that and I do find them interesting, but then I would want to questions to be addressed and presented properly.

I felt Prometheus introduced a bunch of ideas but never explains much, leaves too much up in the air and for the audience to deduce (mostly incorrectly), and those big ideas don't work because the little details and internal logic failed.

I think this is where our differences lie. Just because Prometheus presents bigger ideas than Alien doesn't mean it should be held up to closer scrutiny.

The premise is the origins of life. Bigger ideas than Alien? Absolutely. Does the movie have to explore those ideas in depth to be a good movie? Not in my opinion. As long as what's going on on-screen is well-executed (which it is), I'm happy as a punter. The ideas and questions being in the background is just fine with me. I want to see how the crew deals with the situation presented to them, not philosophise on the nature creation for 2 hours.

 

[MNC]

Here's what I think went wrong.

Ridley Scott is old.
He wanted something fresh.
He probably heard a few years ago that Lost was fresh.
He contacts the writer of Lost.
Not quite sure he wants, he asks for a fresh take on the Alien series.
The writer of Lost isn't quite sure what to do, so he does what he does best with what he has.
Production starts, and everyone shuts the fuck up since Ridley Scott is doing another Alien film.
Prometheus is released to mixed reviews and bad word-of-mouth.

so fresh

 

[symphonask]

Coincidence or intentional Moebius reference in Prometheus? We know Ridley is a big fan of his, and Moebius worked on Alien so I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

NSFW image

 

[bob_arctor]

Just saw it again last night for the second time; my wife wanted to see it. Still really like it, even with its issues. Cool detail I missed the first time was the Weyland company logo as David's fingerprint when he does his "Big things have small beginnings" line. I still really wanted Vickers to have survived somehow so that she could have been the "Mother" that contacts the Nostromo in Alien (her having taken over the company as she wanted to all along).

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

lol, good to see this thread hasn't stopped it's descendence into madness yet.

Too many themes isn't Prometheus' problem. There's the central theme of creation and that's it. .

I hate to sound like a dick... but I'll have to sound like a dick.

You don't understand words, having to explain this stuff is mind boggling to be but needs must;

-The film is called Prometheus for a reason, It's about the crews mission being to take from the Gods for mankind, and ending up being punished.

-Weylund brings the Theme of Immorality and wasting ones life in pursuit of it.

-David the notion of if a sentient tool can be held to moral standards, and the theme of what defines a soul not to mention tons of mirroring with his creation and mankind's beginnings.

-Shaw the limits of faith and what answers are worth.

-Vickers brings ideas of inheritance (needing to outlive who created you WINK WINK)

 

[Chichikov]

-The film is called Prometheus for a reason, It's about the crews mission being to take from the Gods for mankind, and ending up being punished.

I think it's more of a nod to Frankenstein (full name oft the book is Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus).
It makes more sense than Prometheus the Titan, though I think it was intentional fake-out to the audience.

Now, the idea of humanity as a Frankenstein monster is actually quite nice, but the execution, oh the execution.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Hi,

So I watched this Saturday night, and I did not hate it; but it was real messy. The editing was some of the worst I have seen.

The abortion scene was tense, then we transition to the next scene were everyone pretends it didn't happen. It was real weird. She was in the same room with Fassenberg who tried to kill her, and they were acting like nothing. Those kind of things bothered me, and the movie just needed space to breath.

I will buy and watch the 3 hour version coming out later this year. Or 2:40 min what ever.

I didn't hate it, I didn't think it was the worse movie ever etc.....I liked it. It was just hacked up a little.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I think it's more of a nod to Frankenstein (full name oft the book is Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus).
It makes more sense than Prometheus the Titan, though I think it was intentional fake-out to the audience.

Now, the idea of humanity as a Frankenstein monster is actually quite nice, but the execution, oh the execution.

As I said the ideas on the list (of things Scott wanted in the film) were good, just too many of them, a good writer might have been able to focus on one or two for the main narrative and allow the others to be found, but it would always be a hard job juggling all of them in a single film.

 

[symphonask]

I hate to sound like a dick... but I'll have to sound like a dick.

You don't understand words, having to explain this stuff is mind boggling to be but needs must;

-The film is called Prometheus for a reason, It's about the crews mission being to take from the Gods for mankind, and ending up being punished.

-Weylund brings the Theme of Immorality and wasting ones life in pursuit of it.

-David the notion of if a sentient tool can be held to moral standards, and the theme of what defines a soul not to mention tons of mirroring with his creation and mankind's beginnings.

-Shaw the limits of faith and what answers are worth.

-Vickers brings ideas of inheritance (needing to outlive who created you WINK WINK)

Central theme is still life/creation, most of what you just explained falls under that umbrella.

I think it's more of a nod to Frankenstein (full name oft the book is Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus).
It makes more sense than Prometheus the Titan, though I think it was intentional fake-out to the audience.

Now, the idea of humanity as a Frankenstein monster is actually quite nice, but the execution, oh the execution.

Yep. You can draw parallels with David being Frankenstein's monster as well - outcast from humans.

Though Prometheus the Titan has close ties to the story as well, mirroring the Engineers - created humans, gave them genetic upgrades over millennia.

 

[Chichikov]

Yep. You can draw parallels with David being Frankenstein's monster as well - outcast from humans.

But this is where shit starts to break up.
Frankenstein hated the monster because it was ugly.
The monster meant well but accidentally killed people.
The monster wanted Victor to make it a wife, not make it immortal.

I mean, if they didn't put Prometheus in the name I would've never think about that connection.
Sure, it's slightly more coherent than the Greek mythology angle, but only slightly.

Though Prometheus the Titan has close ties to the story as well, mirroring the Engineers - created humans, gave them genetic upgrades over millennia.

Well, Mary Shelley was obviously referring to the Titan when she named her book.

 

[Rentahamster]

As an alternative to the old guy makeup, I'd have just rather had Guy Pearce just look like he normally does and just say that he's over a hundred years old. I'm pretty sure a civilization that develops FTL interstellar travel has the capability for pretty effective anti-aging and rejuvenation therapies.

 

[Chichikov]

As an alternative to the old guy makeup, I'd have just rather had Guy Pearce just look like he normally does and just say that he's over a hundred years old. I'm pretty sure a civilization that develops FTL interstellar travel has the capability for pretty effective anti-aging and rejuvenation therapies.

He's like the only character in that film that have something that resembles a reasonable motivation and you want to take that away?

 

[bob_arctor]

As an alternative to the old guy makeup, I'd have just rather had Guy Pearce just look like he normally does and just say that he's over a hundred years old. I'm pretty sure a civilization that develops FTL interstellar travel has the capability for pretty effective anti-aging and rejuvenation therapies.

I wanted to believe that the old guy makeup was a nod to 2001 and how Dave is shown at the end before the starchild. But yeah, that's a huge stretch on my part.

 

[Mondriaan]

He's like the only character in that film that have something that resembles a reasonable motivation and you want to take that away?

It would hardly be a huge loss. It certainly wouldn't be the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[maharg]

He's like the only character in that film that have something that resembles a reasonable motivation and you want to take that away?

Why would it take anything away? He could still be at the end of the life extending powers of 'modern' medicine. It just might be a sudden failure.

Actually, I agree that would have been far far better than the shitty ass makeup they used.

 

[jett]

He's like the only character in that film that have something that resembles a reasonable motivation and you want to take that away?

It's dumb, regardless. The smart thing to do would have been to stay in stasis on Earth and send an exploration rover to search the moon first before sending people.

 

[Salsa]

As an alternative to the old guy makeup, I'd have just rather had Guy Pearce just look like he normally does and just say that he's over a hundred years old. I'm pretty sure a civilization that develops FTL interstellar travel has the capability for pretty effective anti-aging and rejuvenation therapies.

In the same way I attritubed the shitty make up to extensive treatment on not-dying fucking up his face, but that's still me dealing with that.

so yeah, that would have been a better solution.

 

[Rentahamster]

In the same way I attritubed the shitty make up to extensive treatment on not-dying fucking up his face, but that's still me dealing with that.

so yeah, that would have been a better solution.

At least if Pearce got to play himself as a man of youthful physique, he could still have badass monologues like he did for the TED teaser.

I want to see more badass young Weyland.

 

[Chichikov]

It's dumb, regardless. The smart thing to do would have been to stay in stasis on Earth and send an exploration rover to search the moon first before sending people.

You know guys, a backhanded compliment is not really a compliment .

But to your point - I actually think the really smart thing to do is to take a slightly more interesting angle to the man meets his creator theme than a really really old man who don't want to die.
Or at the very least, establish it a little bit better, both in terms of motivation (show him scared of death or make him an egomaniac that think that it will be too great of a loss for humanity for him to die) and in terms of rationalization (why did he thought that alien dude will be able to grant him ethereal life?).

And fuck, why even make it a plot twist?
It's like the main point of your film and you're barred from discussing it most of its running time because it will spoil things.

 

[Rentahamster]

And fuck, why even make it a plot twist?
It's like the main point of your film and you're barred from discussing it most of its running time because it will spoil things.

Yeah, as a plot twist, it could have been handled a little better, to make the revelation have more gravity. Or, not even have it be a plot twist in the first place, yes.

 

[oatmeal]

All I want to see is that long documentary on the making of Alien 3.

Anyone know if it's online?

 

[DMczaf]

Tyler Perry is on your side, Solo

http://www.blackfilm.com/read/2012/06/exclusive-tyler-perry-talks-madeas-witness-protection/

I love Sci Fi, I love the Alien movies and the Alien franchise. I was very disappointed with Prometheus, but I love that whole franchise. Those are my favorite movies. I’m actually working on a sci-fi movie right now.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Tyler Perry is going to show Ridley how it's done.

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

All I want to see is that long documentary on the making of Alien 3.

Anyone know if it's online?

It's in the 6 disc Blu-ray set, really good.

 

[Escape Goat]

Tyler Perry knows how to write good movies. Take Ridley to school, Tyler!

 

[Erigu]

All I want to see is that long documentary on the making of Alien 3.
Anyone know if it's online?

This?

 

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Tyler Perry knows how to write good movies. Take Ridley to school, Tyler!

Fassbender could pull of David in drag.

 

[Mondriaan]

Fassbender could pull of David in drag.

Perry could put Pearce in old fat black woman make-up and drag and set the movie in the far future.

 

[MNC]

Coincidence or intentional Moebius reference in Prometheus? We know Ridley is a big fan of his, and Moebius worked on Alien so I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

NSFW image

Where the heck do people get all these clear shots of just about anything that happened in the movie? Are these things actually released as stills? Why would they release stills of the ending?

 

[Tom_Cody]

Coincidence or intentional Moebius reference in Prometheus? We know Ridley is a big fan of his, and Moebius worked on Alien so I wouldn't be surprised if it was intentional.

NSFW image

Wow, that's kind of mind-blowing actually.

In interviews/commentary related to Alien Scott has been very clear that Moebius and Metal Hurlant in general greatly inspired his visual sensibilities at that time. Moebius ultimately participated in the film at Scott's insistence but his influence extended far beyond his designs that actually made it into the film.

I would say those panels must be a direct influence for that scene.