Tormentoso
Banned
DCharlie said:
And i admit that quite happily,i was one of those who defend the CG,i don't have a problem to admit it,one most learn from its mistakes,but it was like that just a CG.
PS3 games list & SPE usages
- Thread starter MikeB
- Start date
And i admit that quite happily,i was one of those who defend the CG,i don't have a problem to admit it,one most learn from its mistakes,but it was like that just a CG.
Scottlarock
Banned
wtf at this comment, the only one is uncharted and thats debateable. you say all? really?RavenFox said:
UntoldDreams
Member
Scottlarock said:
This thread is hideously derailed by that errant post by Potato head and now it will become list wars.
Look the point of this entire thread (at least to me) is to discuss how the PS3 has significant computational power and how it is or is NOT being properly used in games.
To me the most impressive so far are indeed Uncharted, Ratchet, Motorstorm 1 & 2, LittleBigPlanet (the physics engine is superb), and lastly the upcoming Killzone.
I think killzone at 60% CPU SPU usage is a significant benchmark of power. 60% of the SPU array is a TON of processing power being utilized. Honestly, in raw number crunching volume the 360 and most all PC's have ZERO chance of crunching that much volume of mathematics (only 8 core Intel CPU's could pull this off). The theoretical throughput of 60% of cell power is quite honestly staggering for any other normal CPU to tackle.
They would have to get creative by culling stuff, not rendering the same volume, or cheating the amount of geometry.
Scottlarock
Banned
thats true.Kagari said:
Khalifa Jayy
Banned
Attention!
Would you bunch of crybabies quit referring to Gears of War as GoW?! That's reserved for God of War, ya blimey bastards! Quit insulting the game!
That is all.
Would you bunch of crybabies quit referring to Gears of War as GoW?! That's reserved for God of War, ya blimey bastards! Quit insulting the game!
That is all.
Xdrive05
Member
Scottlarock said:
Having just gotten my PS3 today and downloading a metric shitton of demos, I think you'll have to add more to that list of maybe debateables. Ratchet, for one example, looked to be clearly beyond anything I would expect on my beloved 360 of two years (in terms of geometry, framerate, draw distance, and physics all together). And Uncharted too, as you already pointed out.
These exceptions are few, true, but they are resoundingly loud in my opinion. Makes me hopeful to see what else is coming along for Sony. There could very easily be a clear performance divide showing up, at least with first party titles. But as we know that doesn't amount to quality in and of itself. The next couple years will be fun either way.
UntoldDreams
Member
herod said:
Its commonplace for most dev shops to not want to make shitty games.
In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say any typical person doesn't want to do a shitty job at all.
So given a multiplatform 360 and PS3 game its pretty evident any normal human being (developer) is going to say this "I'm going to try to make a great multiplatform title without any glaring flaws on ANY platform".
Byakuya769
Member
herod said:
I've been reading mainly, cause I dont' know enough about this to contribute really... but this is a good question. Last gen xbox had the better multi-platform games, were developers committed to making the games the same across the board then as well? Why is there a different policy now?
UntoldDreams
Member
This poor thread gets derailed every other post with System Wars.
UntoldDreams
Member
Stink said:
Don't make me pull out tons of technobabble just because you like System Wars.
What do you think of Mass Effect which has 3+ characters on screen most of the time made up of 20000+ polys each and Lost Planet which is only second to crysis running on its highest setting in poly count. A game having high poly count or HDR lighting or both isn't a good indicator of system power.Xdrive05 said:
Byakuya769
Member
duk said:
great post, will read again.
ass.
no really, you're an ass
Tormentoso
Banned
Scottlarock said:
GT5 says Hi.
Yeah and i have see people debate here were ever Killzone 2 look better than anything on 360 or not,and is easy to see that is not debatable.
gollumsluvslave
Member
No, Carmack said that multi-core and multi-threaded development was more difficult. And *any* coder/programmer that has had to debug a multi-threaded application, dealing with race conditions, synchronisation and deadlocks will agree that it IS more difficult. News at Ten!
Carmack:-
Carmack has equally criticized MS for DVD9 and space issues.
My main point about Rage being a good future game is that just suppose for a minute that Rage comes out and is arguably (because it always is) the best looking game out?
What does that say about the PS3 and 360 other than they are both very capable machines that top-level devs like Carmack will always be able to get to do great things.
So far I would agree that Killzone 2 IS the best looking game so far, but Rage isn't far behind technically IMHO. Of course both games are not out yet, so time will tell.
To be honest, with all the talk of Gears 2 being the best looking on 360, I'm surprised there is not more talk of Banjo N&B on 360, which technically is doing some great stuff, regardless of whether you like the artstyle.
Tormentoso said:
It's my opinion that KZ2 look like dogshite, but that's not what this thread's topic is about is it...?
I almost feel bad for MikeB now, even I can't see how he could intend the thread ending up in this idiotic subjective trainwreck. Well, it was subjective from the get go, but still...
Death Dealer
Member
Squeak said:
Burnout Paradise developer Criterion stated RSX and Xenos are very close in absolute performance, "+ - 10% of each other". As you stated, they each have strengths and weaknesses.
Also it's a myth RSX was a "last minute" decision. When it was still an idea on paper, Kutagari planned on dual cells with no dedicated GPU, but that idea was dropped early on. PS3 graphics have always banked on Cell BE assist.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
Oh my god I just went through a page of this thread and I think I'm going to vomit. Jesus some of you people suck.
It wouldn't really matter much if it was a last minute decision. The only interface between the two is the 128bit bus.Death Dealer said:
It's like a hand, that is able to use a number of tools, like a knife or a spade.
Of course they have to be matched somewhat powerwise, but it's not like a jigsaw peice that doesn't quite fit. It's all really a matter of programming Cell to talk to RSX. Just like Cell talks to the Graphics Synthesizer in some of the BC capable PS3s.
Death Dealer said:
It's a popular myth amongst some people.
The RSX was announced in May 2005, the same month the XBox 360 was announced (which was released the same year). So it cannot be a last minute change by any reasonable measure. The 360 has clear signs of being rushed though.
The RSX design originates from the PC world but with various crucial PS3 specific adaptations (like the Xenos).
A multi-Cell design without a more dedicated or with a heavily simplified GPU although potentially very powerful for making fully ray traced games a viable option would not have been a good idea. Far too much redesign needed for legacy game engines to get the results you want, now devs have been able to adapt their game engines step by step, that wouldn't have been an option.
Overall a good PS3 resource, a lot of effort went into this and seems pretty accurate overall and fairly up to date, PS3 secrets:
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html
http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html
Tormentoso
Banned
I think the real advantage of the PS3 is on the CPU and the huge chunk of memory it has,people were quick to say that the xbox 360 had more GPU video memory,but fail to see that its CPU Cell has more memory than the xbox 360 CPU,been once say that Cell even consider by sony at one point to be a graphic unit,it most has at least some good juice or some good uses to been even consider that way,it doesn't quite has to be like a 7800,it could be on par or much lower than a 6800 but still has GPU quality's and that is what i think is helping the PS3 allot.
The fact that Cell can handle tasks that the xbox 360 CPU just can't is helping the PS3, the GPU pretty much do all the graphics and effects works on the 360,while on PS3 is more like a share job by the 2,and Cell take some of the jobs that were suppose to be done by the GPU and free that GPU to do other things.
And to think that SPE were say to be useless boy how hard they were proven wrong.
The fact that Cell can handle tasks that the xbox 360 CPU just can't is helping the PS3, the GPU pretty much do all the graphics and effects works on the 360,while on PS3 is more like a share job by the 2,and Cell take some of the jobs that were suppose to be done by the GPU and free that GPU to do other things.
And to think that SPE were say to be useless boy how hard they were proven wrong.
SolidSnakex
Member
herod said:
Criterion, EA Black Box, Capcom ect ect. They all say their goal is to make sure the games look the same. It's again why if you want to see what a system can do you look toward exclusive titles not multiplatform titles.
DCharlie said:
May 2005:
Scratching the Surface of NVIDIA's RSX
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2423&p=3
May 2005:
Microsoft announces the Xbox 360
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/12/news_6124231.html
Rushed:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/nov/13/xbox-truth
Tormentoso
Banned
DCharlie said:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/nvidia-partners-with-sony-on-playstation-3-graphics-hardware
Actually he is wrong,is not 2005 is 2004 when Nvidia admited it.
Nvidia admitted that they were working with sony on the PS3 RSX on july 2004,read the bold part in fact that bold part there state that they had 2 year working already by the time the article was write,which mean like 2002 that was pretty much when the original xbox was starting.
Tormentoso
Banned
MikeB said:
No problem body.
I think this show quite easy the GPU was not rush,i think the PS3 is getting Killzone 2 level of graphics and will probably get higher because of that,the fact that both the CPU and GPU work well together.
Tormentoso
Banned
DCharlie said:
Well not every one o Sony know anything withing the company at the same time,can't say for sure since i would be speculating about that.
But when i bough my PS1 and it was damage,i took it to one of the sony store's here in PR and the person who attend me didn't even know what a PS was,and that was some 2 years after i bought it.
But sensitive information is keep secret and you probably know this,more when the topic is sony.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
well, that is indeed true - though i'm not talking about sony store member, this is sony internal dev. Though there is a history of HW and SW literally not talking.
i dunno of course it could well be true, but i'd be surprised if it was in the works for 2 years+ given the rumoured very large royalty fee and the fact that the chip could have been so much better had it HAD that much time (?)
DCharlie said:
dude, wtf are you even talking about anymore? He gave you an article from 2004 that says that Nvidia is working on RSX for Sony... And that article says "for past 2 years". Meaning in 2004 Nvidia said they have been working on it with Sony for 2 years.
You would be suprised? What does that mean? Nvidia announced in 2004 that they are working for chip for PS3... if your Sony friend did not know about it, then doesnt know much, does he?
DCharlie said:
That's a bit of an understatement from a couple stories I'd read after Kutaragi left.
Nvidia was quite upset at how their deal with MS went for the Xbox gpu, they swore up and down they'd never enter into a deal like that again. Apparently Sony found terms more to their liking...
What happened with the RSX is that they probably finalized the design a bit too early, and when blu-ray encryption and cell yields started holding everything up it was too late to beef it up. That and they probably skimped a bit on the RSX a little simply because they had to know costs were going out of control. Even with that, it appears to be a pretty decent GPU.
