Support NeoGAF

[MikeB]

how about "the 360 is relatively miles ahead because the hardware is significantly cheaper". I can make up bullshit logic too!

Yes, it is cheaper I'll give you that. ;-)

Only 134 Euro including 19% taxes next door, but the PS2 sells cheaper still at only 79 Euro also including taxes. The last 2 reported fiscal years the PS2 sold 28 million units, that's well more than the 360 sold in over 3 years. ;-) And for the last reported quarter the PS2 outsold the PS3 and 360 as well, who knows what will happen worldwide this Christmas?

 

[itxaka]

Yes, it is cheaper I'll give you that. ;-)

Only 134 Euro including 19% taxes next door, but the PS2 sells cheaper still at only 79 Euro also including taxes. The last 2 fiscal reported fiscal years the PS2 sold 28 million units, that's well more than the 360 sold in over 3 years. ;-) And for the last reported quarter the PS2 outsold the PS3 and 360, who knows what will happen worldwide this christmas?

where the fuck do you find a ps2 for 79€ including taxes? I need one and it's 149€ here stripped of everything.

 

[Esch]

PS3 has been with us long enough for developers to have games performing exactly the same on both consoles. Frame rate,resolution and particle effects should be the same BUT they are not.
I don't have one single game that performs better on PS3 and with recent releases like the terrible resistance 2 coming from the acclaimed IG I have now consigned myself to the fact that the 360 is without a doubt more powerful and better than the PS3.
The bottom line is that the original PS3 specs were changed and at the last minute NVIDEA were drafted in to replace the second CELL with an off the shelf GPU and it shows.
The PS3 hardware is an abomination and people need to wake up to this fact!!!!
Stop defending sony's hype machine, it's just a piece of silicon not something merlin himself dreamed up.
I cannnot believe people honestly think there really is some sort of hidden power!
All game console produce better games as they get older,Its called familiarity with the hardware.

:lol :lol :lol :lol oh my god.

This shit needs to stop >_>

 

[Stink]

er... the Wii will outsell all of them? Dunno where you're going with this.

 

[MikeB]

where the fuck do you find a ps2 for 79€ including taxes? I need one and it's 149€ here stripped of everything.

Media Markt in the Netherlands and Germany, but Aldi sold/sells them for even 77 Euro. ;-)

 

[carlosp]

where the fuck do you find a ps2 for 79€ including taxes? I need one and it's 149€ here stripped of everything.

Media Markt in Germany.

 

[Stink]

ps2 is now really just in direct competition with its own second hand hardware market for all practical purposes.

 

[Gibb]

PS3 has been with us long enough for developers to have games performing exactly the same on both consoles. Frame rate,resolution and particle effects should be the same BUT they are not.
I don't have one single game that performs better on PS3 and with recent releases like the terrible resistance 2 coming from the acclaimed IG I have now consigned myself to the fact that the 360 is without a doubt more powerful and better than the PS3.
The bottom line is that the original PS3 specs were changed and at the last minute NVIDEA were drafted in to replace the second CELL with an off the shelf GPU and it shows.
The PS3 hardware is an abomination and people need to wake up to this fact!!!!
Stop defending sony's hype machine, it's just a piece of silicon not something merlin himself dreamed up.
I cannnot believe people honestly think there really is some sort of hidden power!
All game console produce better games as they get older,Its called familiarity with the hardware.

It may not be dreamed up by Merlin, but the new hardware architecture works like magic if you understand how to use it. And this is were some developers are, or rather, were struggling.

It has been proven that games can run exactly the same on both systems. Burnout, DMC and Prince of Persia pop into my mind. And I'm very confident that Skate2 will also run identical on both systems.. there.. I called it!

As for the Resistance 2 remark, proof it is "terrible".. or eat those words!

 

[drakesfortune]

I don't think that it is fair to compare Killzone2, a game that has been in development for years with any 360 or PS3 game for that matter. Give a Gears of War or Resistance game that much time in development and you will see games that look just as good or not better than Killzone2.

Huh, so do you think that there has been very little dev time put into the Unreal Engine? Do you really think that Microsoft didn't throw everything they had at Gears of War 2? Are we really arguing that Microsoft spends less time and money on their exclusives than Sony? Come on now.

I have both systems, and I love both. From a pure technical prespective the 360 has better ports, almost exclusively, and the PS3, with Uncharted, has the best looking exclusive game on a console...still. I have not played Killzone 2 yet, but from what I've seen, and the impressions heard from gaming journalists, it will be the most impressive game on either system by a pretty good margin.

From what Epic has said, they think they've pushed the 360 as far as it can go with Gears 2. Uncharted looks better, and from a technical perspective (lighting/shadows etc) than Gears 2 (again, in my opinion). To me, as someone who owns and likes both, it appears the PS3 has a noteworthy technical advantage that takes a lot of time and money to utilize. That's a bummer, but I take solace in the fact that I get to play games like Killzone 2, Uncharted and the like. At the same time, I'm impressed with Gears 2, and graphically it too is a beautiful and technically impressive game.

 

[itxaka]

Media Markt in Germany.

Media Markt in the Netherlands and Germany, but Aldi sold/sells them for even 77 Euro. ;-)

maaaan, I want to order one, I can buy a memory card, some component cables and a game with the money I could save at that price!

 

[Tormentoso]

PS3 has been with us long enough for developers to have games performing exactly the same on both consoles. Frame rate,resolution and particle effects should be the same BUT they are not.
I don't have one single game that performs better on PS3 and with recent releases like the terrible resistance 2 coming from the acclaimed IG I have now consigned myself to the fact that the 360 is without a doubt more powerful and better than the PS3.
The bottom line is that the original PS3 specs were changed and at the last minute NVIDEA were drafted in to replace the second CELL with an off the shelf GPU and it shows.
The PS3 hardware is an abomination and people need to wake up to this fact!!!!
Stop defending sony's hype machine, it's just a piece of silicon not something merlin himself dreamed up.
I cannnot believe people honestly think there really is some sort of hidden power!
All game console produce better games as they get older,Its called familiarity with the hardware.

Na....

360 games had been on development since 2004,you don't make a 360 game in 4 months no matter how easy the console is to develop for,not even ports take so little time,on 2004 there was no PS3 dev kits or something like that,in fact those landed on what late 2005?

They don't have the same time,but not only that one is more difficult than the other to code for,and the easier one is the lead one,but also think that games are do in certain time is the time is up for release they go as they are,many times this means the PS3 version will suffer just for been a hardware that need more time.

Using multi console games to measure power is not the best way,you say the 360 is more powerful because multi console games run better, i do have to say that there are games that run better,in fact from what i read Ovblivion did run better on PS3 than on 360 from what i read.

Well i can't believe that you think the xbox 360 is more powerful based on games that don't quite stand against the PS3 best looking games,Killzone 2 alone say that you need to fix you eyes.

 

[AgentOtaku]

PS3 has been with us long enough for developers to have games performing exactly the same on both consoles. Frame rate,resolution and particle effects should be the same BUT they are not.
I don't have one single game that performs better on PS3 and with recent releases like the terrible resistance 2 coming from the acclaimed IG I have now consigned myself to the fact that the 360 is without a doubt more powerful and better than the PS3.
The bottom line is that the original PS3 specs were changed and at the last minute NVIDEA were drafted in to replace the second CELL with an off the shelf GPU and it shows.
The PS3 hardware is an abomination and people need to wake up to this fact!!!!
Stop defending sony's hype machine, it's just a piece of silicon not something merlin himself dreamed up.
I cannnot believe people honestly think there really is some sort of hidden power!
All game console produce better games as they get older,Its called familiarity with the hardware.

...oh boy

 

[H.Cornerstone]

Is the 360 capable of deferred rendering and MSAA? I didn't think it was as those two processes are direct x 10 processes (which the 360 cannot do).

 

[KeioSquad2]

How did a thread about the usages of the spu in the PS3 become a xbox fanboy argument?

 

[Synless]

How did a thread about the usages of the spu in the PS3 become a xbox fanboy argument?

I don't know, but the thread degraded from a very useful one to the typical fanboy bullshit that destroys every thread. This thread had a good run though.

 

[KernelPanic]

I don't know, but the thread degraded from a very useful one to the typical fanboy bullshit that destroys every thread. This thread had a good run though.

This is one of my favorite threads on the forum.

I hope it stays as it's filled with good info about the PS3 for those interested.

 

[AndyD]

How did a thread about the usages of the spu in the PS3 become a xbox fanboy argument?

The fanboys showed up?

You can see that some people come in here just to post their anti-ps3 views, completely off topic to the OP.

I wish we could report these posts and get them deleted.

 

[DunpealD]

This is one of my favorite threads on the forum.

I hope it stays as it's filled with good info about the PS3 for those interested.

Agreed, I think this thread is awesome my only gripe about it is this whole comparison thing that has started a little bit after the revival of this thread :/.

 

[industrian]

How did a thread about the usages of the spu in the PS3 become a xbox fanboy argument?

thisisneogaf.gif

I hope it stays as it's filled with good info about the PS3 for those interested.

Say all you want about MikeB, but he'll keep this thread alive and on-topic. And you've got to credit him for that.

 

[itxaka]

The fanboys showed up?

You can see that some people come in here just to post their anti-ps3 views, completely off topic to the OP.

I wish we could report these posts and get them deleted.

Starting with the op's bullshitting and fact-ass-pulling? Dam, he even pulled numbers from some place that probably is the banned site.

 

[AndyD]

Starting with the op's bullshitting and fact-ass-pulling? Dam, he even pulled numbers from some place that probably is the banned site.

Well, at least he made an effort and spawned a thread of discussion.

 

[KeioSquad2]

Starting with the op's bullshitting and fact-ass-pulling? Dam, he even pulled numbers from some place that probably is the banned site.

Prove that any "fact" that the op linked to is bullshit, and I won't hesitate to take anything else you post seriously.

 

[just tray]

Back to the topic of spe usage, how do third-party developers use the spe's? It seems that the issues with third party games is either:

Not properly using the spe's
Not wanting to invest the time and resources
The quick port/quick buck syndrome
or laziness

Not all of the third-party developers are doing this and it's nice to see the PS3 madden be on par with the 360 one.I just wish that more third party developers developed exclusive PS3 games like how it was with the PS2.But then again it's not fair to other game players.



Oh and about the comment that Uncharted looks better than Gears 2. What the fuck you been smoking?

In the end it comes to what the engine can do. A companies claim that they maxed out a system is only relevant to them,their game engine, and the time,talent and resources invested into the game.No the 360 hasn't been maxed out. No system has been maxed out in it's third year of existence especially when you consider that the even though the PS3 is more powerful than the PS3 on paper the 360 does post a more pwerful gpu than teh PS3. Why doesn't Microsoft and third-party developers don't push the gpu?Maybe they are afraid of more systems overheating. Should have designed the system better in the first place

 

[InterMoniker]

Back to the topic of spe usage, how do third-party developers use the spe's? It seems that the issues with third party games is either:

Not properly using the spe's
Not wanting to invest the time and resources
The quick port/quick buck syndrome
or laziness

Not all of the third-party developers are doing this and it's nice to see the PS3 madden be on par with the 360 one.I just wish that more third party developers developed exclusive PS3 games like how it was with the PS2.But then again it's not fair to other game players.



Oh and about the comment that Uncharted looks better than Gears 2. What the fuck you been smoking?

In the end it comes to what the engine can do. A companies claim that they maxed out a system is only relevant to them,their game engine, and the time,talent and resources invested into the game.No the 360 hasn't been maxed out. No system has been maxed out in it's third year of existence especially when you consider that the even though the PS3 is more powerful than the PS3 on paper the 360 does post a more pwerful gpu than teh PS3. Why doesn't Microsoft and third-party developers don't push the gpu?Maybe they are afraid of more systems overheating. Should have designed the system better in the first place

What have you been smoking

Anyways back on topic I think you and Mr. Potato Head should stop trying to justify that Killzone 2 looks so good because of the amount of time and budget put into the game.

How about this, maybe Killzone 2 looks so amazing because it uses the Cell's spe's to help render the graphics how about that?

 

[bj00rn_]

thisisneogaf.gif



Say all you want about MikeB, but he'll keep this thread alive and on-topic. And you've got to credit him for that.

Sales discussions and 360 FUD is on topic...? Ok, if you say so...

 

[itxaka]

Prove that any "fact" that the op linked to is bullshit, and I won't hesitate to take anything else you post seriously.

The numbers is not enough? He was already asked where did he get them from and guess what, no response as he normally does when he doesn't want ask something. I got nothing against him, he seems like a nice guy, but his bias is more than proved already.

 

[just tray]

Oh and to be clear, NO 360 LAUNCH GAME with the exception of Call of Duty 2(maybe) used all 3 cores. There is no way the 360 was maxed out at 85 percent (at launch)as Mike B. claims. When you look at the launch games and look at games released later you will see a huge difference. Compare Perfect Dark Zero to Ghost Recon. Compare PGR 3 to PGR 4.If I remember correctly, PGR3 wasn't fully HD and PGR4 is with superior graphics. PGR4 is still one of the best looking racers around.Te first games to really begin using the cores are Dead Rising(AUG 06) and Oblivion (spring 06)There is no truth to your claims and if you add the fact that devs didn't get 360 finalized dev kits until August 05 and the system launched a couple months later, then you can see how there is no truth to your 85 percent claims. 85 percent just seems like some random number you made up to make the 360 look bad.

 

[InterMoniker]

Also you really gotta consider the raw talent of the various development studios.. Bungie and the Halo series never really were cutting edge with its graphics in Halo games.. they were good but there were always better looking games on the xbox systems when ever a new halo game came out...Halo3..when it came out had excellent lighting and stuff like that but when it came out..there were other games that looked better... GOW for one. Sony is fortunate to have alot of their development studios with very good development talent with graphics so they usually seem to do more with what ever hardware is sitting on their plate.. more so then what MS has under their belt imho

Also to those that are trying to say the PS3 is superior graphically to the 360 just by the KZ2 is just down right wrong, talk about tryign to jump on any oppurtunity to rise above another system....come on now, be a REAL fan of videogames, not some stupid fanboy of a particular system..both consoles have their strengths in graphics in their own ways depending on the developer as well.. im behind KZ2 but none of us know what a KZ2 would look like on a 360 ..for all we know, a KZ2 game may look better on 360 if the tables where turned around..we dont know and really who cares...


... i think ALOT of you guys are avoiding the REAL question for what ever reason why and that REAL question is... can a console developed game from ground up (Killzone 2) in this case....can it look more visually impressive then PC's best looking game to date (crysis) in this case?... and the short answer is.... YES! KZ2 is living proof!

And if any PC fanboy wants to step up to the plate.. go for it but before you do.. make sure you go play the Kill Zone 2 beta first... hehe

yawn... Like almost all the most hardcore xbox fans on here aren't doing the opposite of what I bolded. Usually it's a multiplatform release with one little flaw and xbox fans try to use that as proof that the 360 is better it's downright wrong

Don't make me quote your tag.

 

[just tray]

What have you been smoking

Anyways back on topic I think you and Mr. Potato Head should stop trying to justify that Killzone 2 looks so good because of the amount of time and budget put into the game.

How about this, maybe Killzone 2 looks so amazing because it uses the Cell's spe's to help render the graphics how about that?

Any game with the right talent,TIME,resources, and coding can be made to look as good is all I'm trying to say. Yes the spe uasge is great and I'm looking forward to playing Killzone 2 but I'm not convinced that it's not a game that couldn't be done on the 360 if it were built from the ground up for it.

You compare a game that has been in development since before teh PS3was announced with games that are already on their second go arounds (resistance,gears of war) Even Kojima got his game out before Killzone 2.

The good thing about killzone is that hopefully this will put an end to installs.

 

[UntoldDreams]

Its nonsensical to say the Cell processor is not powerful. Of course it is. Very powerful.

As the successor to a series of designs from IBM (which include the 360 CPU) its a given that its a beast.

The issue isn't one of power. It has power in spades. The issue is one of Software development and the developer acceptance of this architecture.

Whether you hate or love Sony shouldn't color your words unless you want to appear silly.

The biggest impediment to efficient usage of Cell honestly has been the lack of tools and middleware software libraries.

If I told you that you had to learn a new language (like Japanese) to type your e-mails then you would probably be a little upset. Even if I said... Your emails will be delivered 1000 times faster with support for 1 gigabyte mail attachments.

You would still probably be upset that I was forcing you to learn Japanese. After all... More advanced power is useless for the common case of you sending an email.

This is the issue with cell programming. Most developers did not want to learn or change. Even if they had wanted to learn cell programming... The simple fact is that it takes time to learn how to read and write in the new architecture.

 

[KeioSquad2]

The numbers is not enough? He was already asked where did he get them from and guess what, no response as he normally does when he doesn't want ask something. I got nothing against him, he seems like a nice guy, but his bias is more than proved already.

That's fine, but if the op is posting false info then that's something I'd let the mods handle.... What he is posting though about the ps3 spu's leaves no room for debate, just healthy discussion.

Back on topic, Guerrilla is getting mad performance from the gpu of the ps3 because they have most of their systems running on the spu's. For instance - Lighting, particles, culling, all most all the special effects that the gpu would normally handle are all being done by the spu's. Which is why they can get way more polly and texture performance from the gpu.

I wonder just how much stuff they can get away with putting on the spu's?

 

[DemonSwordsman]

Any game with the right talent,TIME,resources, and coding can be made to look as good is all I'm trying to say. Yes the spe uasge is great and I'm looking forward to playing Killzone 2 but I'm not convinced that it's not a game that couldn't be done on the 360 if it were built from the ground up for it.

You compare a game that has been in development since before teh PS3was announced with games that are already on their second go arounds (resistance,gears of war) Even Kojima got his game out before Killzone 2.

The good thing about killzone is that hopefully this will put an end to installs.

lol what? So you think they started making Unreal Engine after the 360 was released? And if anything Gears 2 should look leaps and bounds better than killzone since it is a 2nd or 3rd gen game by that dev for the system. They are pretty damn good with using the 360 now.

These xbots are so pathetic lol. You can go bash killzone in the other killzone thread where they can waste their time owning you guys. Leave this thread for spe discussion which has nothing to do with 360 or wii sales.

 

[UntoldDreams]

stuff.

Taken at face value the difference in computers is simply one of maximum processor output.

All computers can do math.
All computers can calculate the position of a point in space and rotate it around.
All computers can calculate how much light is shining on a point in space.

Given enough time a 1980's era Apple IIe computer could create render a single frame of killzone2. It would take weeks to render even one single frame but it is possible to do so.

If you are saying that the max theoretical output of the 360 is the same as the PS3 then you are wrong. If you are saying that an equally "FUN" and "GOOD" game can be created then you are correct.

Power is not required for good and great games. Tetris is a great game.

 

[InterMoniker]

Any game with the right talent,TIME,resources, and coding can be made to look as good is all I'm trying to say. Yes the spe uasge is great and I'm looking forward to playing Killzone 2 but I'm not convinced that it's not a game that couldn't be done on the 360 if it were built from the ground up for it.

You compare a game that has been in development since before teh PS3was announced with games that are already on their second go arounds (resistance,gears of war) Even Kojima got his game out before Killzone 2.

The good thing about killzone is that hopefully this will put an end to installs.

I don't agree with you.

Right now the proof is in the pudding with KILLZONE 2.

Until then...

 

[BeeDog]

Any game with the right talent,TIME,resources, and coding can be made to look as good is all I'm trying to say. Yes the spe uasge is great and I'm looking forward to playing Killzone 2 but I'm not convinced that it's not a game that couldn't be done on the 360 if it were built from the ground up for it.

You compare a game that has been in development since before teh PS3was announced with games that are already on their second go arounds (resistance,gears of war) Even Kojima got his game out before Killzone 2.

The good thing about killzone is that hopefully this will put an end to installs.

I don't really want to get into this discussion, but I still wanna say my thoughts. Essentially, Gears of War is the perfect example of a game built up for the 360. And the second paragraph doesn't really hold; since GeOW2 seems to be a 360 exclusive (out of a PC perspective), the engine should be even more impressive the second time around, since they're able to tweak it even further. In short, Gears is built up from the ground up for the 360, you can't twist that around.

Also, you can't just throw money and time at a project and expect wonders to come out of it. You need the talent behind, as you already said it. But by your logic, Duke Nukem Forever should be the best game ever, both in the gameplay and graphics department.

I don't want to take a stance like proclaiming the PS3 to be superior than the 360, that KZ2 is better looking than GeOW2 or anything of sorts, but my point is simply that the arguments you said aren't really valid.

 

[just tray]

lol what? So you think they started making Unreal Engine after the 360 was released? And if anything Gears 2 should look leaps and bounds better than killzone since it is a 2nd or 3rd gen game by that dev for the system. They are pretty damn good with using the 360 now.

These xbots are so pathetic lol. You can go bash killzone in the other killzone thread where they can waste their time owning you guys. Leave this thread for spe discussion which has nothing to do with 360 or wii sales.

I am in no means bashing killzone. In fact it's the main reason I am looking forward to Feb 09. I think more developers should spend the amount of time that they did with Killzone so we don't get crap like Halo 3's horrible multi-player visuals.Being a FPS fiend, how can I not notice Killzone 2? How can anyone not notice this game? I'm just saying that their are reasons on why it looks so good(lack of split screen,budget, and time)Looks like Guerilla took the time to learn the PS3 architecture but i don't want to wait anotehr 4+ years to play the next Killzone. You can do a lot to a game in 4+ years which is the time that Killzone 2 has had to look this good. In 4+ years we have had two Gears of Wars, Two Resistance titles, almost two uncharteds, two Motorstorms, etc.You can do a lot to a game in that amount of time.

 

[Mr.Potato Head]

Huh, so do you think that there has been very little dev time put into the Unreal Engine? Do you really think that Microsoft didn't throw everything they had at Gears of War 2? Are we really arguing that Microsoft spends less time and money on their exclusives than Sony? Come on now.

I have both systems, and I love both. From a pure technical prespective the 360 has better ports, almost exclusively, and the PS3, with Uncharted, has the best looking exclusive game on a console...still. I have not played Killzone 2 yet, but from what I've seen, and the impressions heard from gaming journalists, it will be the most impressive game on either system by a pretty good margin.

From what Epic has said, they think they've pushed the 360 as far as it can go with Gears 2. Uncharted looks better, and from a technical perspective (lighting/shadows etc) than Gears 2 (again, in my opinion). To me, as someone who owns and likes both, it appears the PS3 has a noteworthy technical advantage that takes a lot of time and money to utilize. That's a bummer, but I take solace in the fact that I get to play games like Killzone 2, Uncharted and the like. At the same time, I'm impressed with Gears 2, and graphically it too is a beautiful and technically impressive game.

Now see why cant others just have an open mind to it all......thats exactly how i feel and this quote from this guy above is what i would call a "true" gamer.. one that is "ok" with appreciating a PS3 game with uber sexy visuals such as KZ2 but yet at the same time can say without great prejudice that the 360 also can deliver visually stunning games too.. why this is so hard for others to take this approach is beyond me..well i know why, its called severe fanboyism and to me..anyone with this fanboysim syndrome are not a true gamers... but as i said before..better them then me because they sure miss out on ALOT of great AAA exclusive games that happen to be on that "other" system.., im content with enjoying both systems, every true gamer is.... the more i think about it..the gamers with this fanboy syndrome (fanboyism) are those that only have enough "dough" to own one system..because when i think back when i was younger and could only afford one system..i will admit there were times when i dished out shit on that "other" console i didnt own ONLY because i didnt own it, there for was jeaslous that i couldnt play those "other" games on that "other" system..while i praised and worshiped the console i did own because it was the ONLY console i could own because i was young, still in high school and couldj only afford one game machine and the games for it... but as an adult with a full time job as a CNC Programmer...im fortunate to own a ps3, wii, 360 and two gaming pc's.. oh let me say it again.. Killzone2 is the best looking game to date..even compared to anything on my uber fast HTPC, Dear Crysis, there's a new sheriff in town

 

[KeioSquad2]

I don't really want to get into this discussion, but I still wanna say my thoughts. Essentially, Gears of War is the perfect example of a game built up for the 360. And the second paragraph doesn't really hold; since GeOW2 seems to be a 360 exclusive (out of a PC perspective), the engine should be even more impressive the second time around, since they're able to tweak it even further. In short, Gears is built up from the ground up for the 360, you can't twist that around.

Also, you can't just throw money and time at a project and expect wonders to come out of it. You need the talent behind, as you already said it. But by your logic, Duke Nukem Forever should be the best game ever, both in the gameplay and graphics department.

I don't want to take a stance like proclaiming the PS3 to be superior than the 360, that KZ2 is better looking than GeOW2 or anything of sorts, but my point is simply that the arguments you said aren't really valid.

Their valid if only to point out how misinformed he is.......

 

[herod]

games currently under development are more and more being lead on the PS3

which games, which developers, and when will we see them?

 

[KeioSquad2]

Now see why cant others just have an open mind to it all......thats exactly how i feel and this quote from this guy above is what i would call a "true" gamer.. one that is "ok" with appreciating a PS3 game with uber sexy visuals such as KZ2 but yet at the same time can say without great prejudice that the 360 also can deliver visually stunning games too.. why this is so hard for others to take this approach is beyond me..well i know why, its called severe fanboyism and to me..anyone with this fanboysim syndrome are not a true gamers... but as i said before..better them then me because they sure miss out on ALOT of great AAA exclusive games that happen to be on that "other" system.., im content with enjoying both systems, every true gamer is.... the more i think about it..the gamers with this fanboy syndrome (fanboyism) are those that only have enough "dough" to own one system..because when i think back when i was younger and could only afford one system..i will admit there were times when i dished out shit on that "other" console i didnt own ONLY because i didnt own it, there for was jeaslous that i couldnt play those "other" games on that "other" system..while i praised and worshiped the console i did own because it was the ONLY console i could own because i was young, still in high school and couldj only afford one game machine and the games for it... but as an adult with a full time job as a CNC Programmer...im fortunate to own a ps3, wii, 360 and two gaming pc's.. oh let me say it again.. Killzone2 is the best looking game to date..even compared to anything on my uber fast HTPC, Dear Crysis, there's a new sheriff in town

How come every post you make is a sherade for your anti PC agenda.....:lol

 

[MikeB]

Oh and to be clear, NO 360 LAUNCH GAME with the exception of Call of Duty 2(maybe) used all 3 cores.

As discussed earlier within this thread (credit goes to wotter for providing this link):
http://download.microsoft.com/downl...ab-df6c7a2580b9/Coding_for_Multiple_Cores.ppt

 

[H_Prestige]

I am in no means bashing killzone. In fact it's the main reason I am looking forward to Feb 09. I think more developers should spend the amount of time that they did with Killzone so we don't get crap like Halo 3's horrible multi-player visuals.Being a FPS fiend, how can I not notice Killzone 2? How can anyone not notice this game? I'm just saying that their are reasons on why it looks so good(lack of split screen,budget, and time)Looks like Guerilla took the time to learn the PS3 architecture but i don't want to wait anotehr 4+ years to play the next Killzone. You can do a lot to a game in 4+ years which is the time that Killzone 2 has had to look this good. In 4+ years we have had two Gears of Wars, Two Resistance titles, almost two uncharteds, two Motorstorms, etc.You can do a lot to a game in that amount of time.

Why would you have to wait 4 years? The tech is already there.

 

[Cuth]

Is the 360 capable of deferred rendering and MSAA? I didn't think it was as those two processes are direct x 10 processes (which the 360 cannot do).

It's certainly capable. GTA IV uses deferred and 2xMSAA on the 360.

 

[just tray]

I don't really want to get into this discussion, but I still wanna say my thoughts. Essentially, Gears of War is the perfect example of a game built up for the 360. And the second paragraph doesn't really hold; since GeOW2 seems to be a 360 exclusive (out of a PC perspective), the engine should be even more impressive the second time around, since they're able to tweak it even further. In short, Gears is built up from the ground up for the 360, you can't twist that around.

Also, you can't just throw money and time at a project and expect wonders to come out of it. You need the talent behind, as you already said it. But by your logic, Duke Nukem Forever should be the best game ever, both in the gameplay and graphics department.

I don't want to take a stance like proclaiming the PS3 to be superior than the 360, that KZ2 is better looking than GeOW2 or anything of sorts, but my point is simply that the arguments you said aren't really valid.

Yeah and it took about two years for each Gears game. At some point you have to stop and go with the game engine in it's current state and add on what you couldn't in another game or sequel. Gears 2 is better than the first in every way.And Resistance 2 is better than the first in every way. I really think Killzone 2 will be the best game in 09 from whats been announced but then again I have FPS goggles on.

Where would this gen be without Epic,Insomniac, and Guerilla?Guerilla set a bar at where they wanted the game to be which is teh reason we had so many delays. Any developer can say the graphics have to look this good before we release X game but few really do. I think what they did will benefit teh PS3 (and my 40 gig) in teh future because Sony is good at sharing information between developers. I know that Microsoft itself assists game developers and Turn 10 and Bizarre did at one point but other than that....

 

[H.Cornerstone]

That's fine, but if the op is posting false info then that's something I'd let the mods handle.... What he is posting though about the ps3 spu's leaves no room for debate, just healthy discussion.

Back on topic, Guerrilla is getting mad performance from the gpu of the ps3 because they have most of their systems running on the spu's. For instance - Lighting, particles, culling, all most all the special effects that the gpu would normally handle are all being done by the spu's. Which is why they can get way more polly and texture performance from the gpu.

I wonder just how much stuff they can get away with putting on the spu's?

They are also having the SPU's do the Anti-aliasing,which is huge because that is the most resource extensive process that a GPU does. And that's always been the goal with the Cell and RSX. Let the cell do all the intensive stuff, and than let the GPU just draw the lines.

 

[Nizz]

I am in no means bashing killzone. In fact it's the main reason I am looking forward to Feb 09. I think more developers should spend the amount of time that they did with Killzone so we don't get crap like Halo 3's horrible multi-player visuals.Being a FPS fiend, how can I not notice Killzone 2? How can anyone not notice this game? I'm just saying that their are reasons on why it looks so good(lack of split screen,budget, and time)Looks like Guerilla took the time to learn the PS3 architecture but i don't want to wait anotehr 4+ years to play the next Killzone. You can do a lot to a game in 4+ years which is the time that Killzone 2 has had to look this good. In 4+ years we have had two Gears of Wars, Two Resistance titles, almost two uncharteds, two Motorstorms, etc.You can do a lot to a game in that amount of time.

You kind of answered your own question there. GG really learning the hardware can be chalked up as R&D. With the amount of time and resources invested in this engine, it should pretty much guarantee that we won't have to wait another 4+ years for Killzone 3. Can you imagine what they can pull off now that the base work had been done? The next one can be all about getting even more out of the engine.

 

[BeeDog]

Yeah and it took about two years for each Gears game. At some point you have to stop and go with the game engine in it's current state and add on what you couldn't in another game or sequel. Gears 2 is better than the first in every way.And Resistance 2 is better than the first in every way. I really think Killzone 2 will be the best game in 09 from whats been announced but then again I have FPS goggles on.

Where would this gen be without Epic,Insomniac, and Guerilla?Guerilla set a bar at where they wanted the game to be which is teh reason we had so many delays. Any developer can say the graphics have to look this good before we release X game but few really do. I think what they did will benefit teh PS3 (and my 40 gig) in teh future because Sony is good at sharing information between developers. I know that Microsoft itself assists game developers and Turn 10 and Bizarre did at one point but other than that....

I do fully understand your point in the dev time compared to progress/graphical fidely, but my point was simply that you can't equal time with results. Everyone says that KZ2 has been devved for around 4 years, but taking that into account, it's not bad at all compared to Too Human or Duke Nukem Forever. You still need to put that money and time into competent hands.

But yeah, it's hard to say what 4 years would to if you only devved a game for the 360. But in the specific case of Gears, for how long has the Unreal Engine 3 been in development (this is an honest question)? When you combine the tech dev time and the pure dev time of Gears of War, I'd say it becomes a pretty lengthy time as well. (once again, I am definitely not trying to say KZ2 is miles better than GeOW2, both are awesome-looking games)

 

[just tray]

The next Killzone will most assuredly look better with split screen. The current state of the engine is good enough where we won't have to wait another 4 years for the next game.

The spe usage is only for it's engine so I don't buy into the claim that it's using 60 percent of cell.Why don't third party developers talk to Guerilla about cell usage? It would get rid of inferior ports and installs.

And i don't care which system has better looking games because I own all three systems. I'm a games person. I follow the games not the system it's on. Didn't think that way at first but my PS3 just sorta grew on me. It is no longer my bastard child but is a glimmering hope of what the PS3 can do

 

[KeioSquad2]

They are also having the SPU's do the Anti-aliasing,which is huge because that is the most resource extensive process that a GPU does. And that's always been the goal with the Cell and RSX. Let the cell do all the intensive stuff, and than let the GPU just draw the lines.

I think there letting the spu's handle the effects as a post process, which would mean that they won't eat into the gpu's fillrate, again, I'm not certain but that could mean that the gpu could draw allot more lines then normally...

I wish 3rd parties would just learn to do the same things, maybe there would be more of a benefit all around, ya know?....

 

[BeeDog]

The next Killzone will most assuredly look better with split screen. The current state of the engine is good enough where we won't have to wait another 4 years for the next game.

The spe usage is only for it's engine so I don't buy into the claim that it's using 60 percent of cell.Why don't third party developers talk to Guerilla about cell usage? It would get rid of inferior ports and installs.

I can think of a couple of reasons (educated guesses ):

1. The Cell usage/programming is very engine-specific, and might not easily translate to other engines.
2. Sony are probably very selective and anal about third-parties using their tech. I'd guess they don't want 3rd parties that also dev for the 360 use their technology which COULD bring improvements to the 360 counterparts (hey, who knows!).
3. Continuation from the above, perhaps they demand exclusivity to get a piece of the cake (eg. their Cell-tailored engine code).