dragonyeuw
Member
*Raises hand*
PS4 gets a new, lower price starting Friday: $349.99
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
*Raises hand*
Acquiescence
Member
Honestly, I think RotTR will do alright on Xbox One. It won't sell AMAZINGLY well, especially with it being released in the midst of the holiday rush, with all manner of annualised sequels and guaranteed sellers (Battlefront, Fallout 4) coming out, but it'll do fine. I think sales of the PS4 version are going to be massively hamstrung by the fact that the game will be a year old by the time it comes out though, and most people just won't care by the time fall 2016 rolls around.
October NPD gonna be interesting, really didn't expect the price cut this early. Friend of mine picked up a PS4 because of it. Still think MS will win October but it's going to be close.
If you are asking why there's no regular H5 bundle then... why would they give it away for free? most people buying a console this holiday will also pick up H5, why give something away for free that's going to sell insanely well and make MS a shit ton of money?
MS hasn't given away any of their first party games at launch with a bundle yet. Well with the exception of Gears (which was a half price game) or Sunset overdrive (which was extremely limited). I expect we'll see a H5 regular bundle next year when sales drop off, right now it makes no sense to give it away for free.
As for the pack ins this year... yeah most of them are pretty poor, but I feel like they're offering the $349 bundles with older/cheaper games because they already plan to cut the price and they're just trying to minimize losses. Phil anticipated a Ps4 price drop, they couldn't just roll into the holidays with the 1TB bundles, even at a $350 price point, that's the same price as PS4 and they'd get slaughtered. I feel like we'll see a $50 holiday discount across the board on xbox bundles and the packins they're offering scream price cut. $299 on the 500gb bundles with the older/budget priced games, $350 on the big bundles like TR and Fallout 4. Maybe they'll do a smaller cut this year and 500gbs will be $329 like bestbuy(?) was selling the gears bundle for.
LE bundles always cost far more than regular bundles (see CoD AW for example), not to mention the H5 bundle comes with the $100 version of the game, not the $60.
If you are asking why there's no regular H5 bundle then... why would they give it away for free? most people buying a console this holiday will also pick up H5, why give something away for free that's going to sell insanely well and make MS a shit ton of money?
MS hasn't given away any of their first party games at launch with a bundle yet. Well with the exception of Gears (which was a half price game) or Sunset overdrive (which was extremely limited). I expect we'll see a H5 regular bundle next year when sales drop off, right now it makes no sense to give it away for free.
As for the pack ins this year... yeah most of them are pretty poor, but I feel like they're offering the $349 bundles with older/cheaper games because they already plan to cut the price and they're just trying to minimize losses. Phil anticipated a Ps4 price drop, they couldn't just roll into the holidays with the 1TB bundles, even at a $350 price point, that's the same price as PS4 and they'd get slaughtered. I feel like we'll see a $50 holiday discount across the board on xbox bundles and the packins they're offering scream price cut. $299 on the 500gb bundles with the older/budget priced games, $350 on the big bundles like TR and Fallout 4. Maybe they'll do a smaller cut this year and 500gbs will be $329 like bestbuy(?) was selling the gears bundle for.
Gotta agree, I really expected TR to be their main bundle. I'm really surprised it isn't, would be interesting to hear from Abdiel how well that's selling. I want the game to sell incredibly well but with the way MS is going about it, it feels like they're just sending it out to die unfortunately.
AnthonypUK
Member
Based on?
its on the console that least cares about the franchise.
Two weeks after the Xboxes biggest franchise - Halo, a week after a game that historically does better on the Xbox - COD in the same week as fallout add in there is just about no hype around the game, i don't see how its going to do alright, it has sunset overdrive style bomba written all over it.
it needed to be out early October, before halo and COD and fallout to do well.
Freeman
Banned
Perfect timing on the price drop.
If Sony ends up winning in NA this October it is a pretty huge statement, November and December are probably in the bag at this point(co-promoting deals with third party play a huge role in this).
Sony's 2016 lineup is just crazy (Uncharted 4, Horizon, GT7, TLG, Persona 5, Dreams, Street Fighter 5, FFVII Remake, Ratchet & Clank, Ni-Oh, Yakuza Remake, Yakuza 6, Project Setsuna, World of FF, Toukiden 2, Gravity Rush 2\Remastered, etc), not to mention the release of PS VR and the fact that we still have two press conferences happening in 2015 that will add more games to the list.
At this point only an extremely successful NX or a early release of a Xbox successor could disrupt the age of PS4. Nothing bigger than Halo 5 is ever going to happen for MS and if that is not enough to win a single month on their strongest market...
If Sony ends up winning in NA this October it is a pretty huge statement, November and December are probably in the bag at this point(co-promoting deals with third party play a huge role in this).
Sony's 2016 lineup is just crazy (Uncharted 4, Horizon, GT7, TLG, Persona 5, Dreams, Street Fighter 5, FFVII Remake, Ratchet & Clank, Ni-Oh, Yakuza Remake, Yakuza 6, Project Setsuna, World of FF, Toukiden 2, Gravity Rush 2\Remastered, etc), not to mention the release of PS VR and the fact that we still have two press conferences happening in 2015 that will add more games to the list.
At this point only an extremely successful NX or a early release of a Xbox successor could disrupt the age of PS4. Nothing bigger than Halo 5 is ever going to happen for MS and if that is not enough to win a single month on their strongest market...
I see PS4 maintaining a comfortable lead in 2016, but even with a price drop I just don't see how beating XB1 this holiday is possible. Unless Halo has far less clout than I think it does.
I'll be honest, the main reason I have little hype for RotTR is probably because of this exclusivity deal. But I also didn't really like the 2013 game. It was great, but nothing too special in my book.
I think there's some hype for TR, of course it not being on PS4 has put a huge damper on that hype but around xbox topics and such there's some hype. The release date is killer though, for every "Game looks so good. Day one. Can't wait" post, there's just as many "game looks great but i'm gonna be too busy with fallout, maybe sometime next year"
I'm pretty excited for it but I'm not sure if I'll get it day one either, maybe I'll get it for Christmas or something but Halo 5, Fallout 4, TR, Battlefront, CoD, NFS all within a few weeks is far too much. Then there's BC which is bound to get a few £ out of me.
Freeman
Banned
It depends on how aggressive MS is going to be, with the bundles we know so far, I think the Xbox One is unlikely to sell better than PS4. The price drop was a perfect counter to Halo 5 and probably has a longer term effect on console sales.
Battlefront Bundle is going be huge comes Star Wars VII fever.
Acquiescence
Member
Comparing it to Sunset Overdrive isn't fair. That was a new IP, with a colourful and cartoonish art direction that betrayed its more adult tone, which no doubt made it a tough sell. It would've benefited immensely if it had been delayed to early 2015, like Dying Light was. Tomb Raider's an established IP and a big name that's been around for years. I agree with you, the reboot had the least amount of presence on Xbox, and it was definitely a weird series for Microsoft to moneyhat considering how closely tied it is to the PlayStation brand. It's not in the same league as your CoDs and your AssCreeds and your Fallouts, but it's still a big name and I'm sure Microsoft will put their marketing dollars into it to decent effect.
I don't think it'll be a flop, but at the same time the results will probably make Square Enix wish they didn't take the exclusivity deal. It ultimately depends how much money Microsoft gave them, which is something we'll never know. It could have been a crazy sum, and Microsoft is the kind of company that likes to flaunt its cash around, so who knows.
Nightengale
Member
I disagree on it being weird. In fact, it's exactly because of how closely tied it is that it's probably doubly appealing to MS, because a successful execution of that strategy means they can gain marketshare of the "Playstation audience."
I mean, it's not as obvious now, but back during 2013/2014, frankly, it almost feels like half the things Xbox did was specifically a pot-shot at Playstation's closely aligned brands. Having MGSV open at MS's E3 conference. Having Insomniac make a first-party game. Stuff like that. It feels like they were very aggressive in trying to establish themselves as having everything that Playstation had, and more.
It's not all that different from Playstation and their Destiny deal, imo. On paper, Destiny is a game that screams Xbox from the get-go. Scifi FPS made by the creators of Halo?
But because Playstation wants to grab that Xbox marketshare, they marketed Destiny really, really hard, and from a casual fan's perspective, I do think it's paid off.
Sure, Destiny didn't become like Final Fantasy or MGS where 80+% of the fanbase on one platform, but it seems like it's plenty sizable for what would be assumed to have been one that leans towards Xbox in the first place.
Acquiescence
Member
Okay, fair enough, you've got a point there. At the same time, prior to us knowing about the Tomb Raider deal, I remember Kagari (or maybe somebody else) saying that Microsoft were shopping around a lot trying to moneyhat certain projects in the works, but the publishers weren't biting. One of those projects was the new Mass Effect, but EA were having none of it, presumably because of how the gen started out and what a balls Microsoft made of things. Now Mass Effect: Andromeda as an Xbox One exclusive? That makes a whole lot of sense to me. The Mass Effect series was a timed-console exclusive to the 360 for a large portion of the last gen (partly the reason I bought a 360 back in 2007 was because of the first Mass Effect, which I thought was a straight-up exclusive (was going through a real casual phase back then!)) and its sales strongly leaned towards the Xbox crowd. To me, it makes a lot more business sense for Microsoft to make maneuvers like that, as opposed to trying to convert the PlayStation audience over to the other side, especially what with the position the Xbox brand is in, lagging behind the PS4 substantially. They haven't got the mindshare to justify that type of action right now.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Destiny's job was to sell PS4s and it did that superbly. It was never going to lopsided to PS like those Japanese IPs. Even though COD was highly associated with Xbox it was still the highest selling game on PS3 too.
If Microsoft did do that Tomb Raider deal to sway people to entice PS gamers to switch to Xbox they vastly overestimated the pull it has. Now they don't even seem to be supporting it fully. Doing a limited bundle for $399 while the Fallout 4 bundle is every where. Looks like it will have to sell on its own with no further subsidies...
I think you can add Sunset Overdrive to that list. Insomniac fans are really dedicated so getting a developer who are known for only PlayStation exclusives to make an Xbox exclusive to try and entice them over to Xbox was an interesting plan. Microsoft only had to make the IP ownerships concession to secure the deal.
Well, I don't know about others, but personally I don't plan on getting it at all for now. I just have almost zero interest in this game. Either way, this game is gonna bomb releasing so closely to the big guns (Fallout 4, BO3, Battlefront). Even worse is that Microsoft seemed to have sent it to die by focusing more on other bundles. I wonder if the situation would have been different if Uncharted 4 was still coming out this holidays.
Those Battlefront and BO3 bundles alone would have brought the PS4 quite close to the XB1 this holiday season. Now with the limited edition Battlefront bundle at $399 and the standard one at $349, I think Sony will win the holidays. Those will sell just on hype for Episode VII alone. Note that I'm not expecting a further price drop for the XB1. Microsoft can only devalue their product this much.
They wouldn't drop the price of they didn't have plenty to sell. Limited stock would defeat the purpose of a price drop.
Yeap, pretty much. Since they announced a price drop in early October, they must have shipped more units at the end of September. Q3 2015 shipments may be higher than some might think.
Pathfinder
Member
Cross-posting from the other thread:
Rang up at $349.99 and got the $50 Target gift card. I was going to wait until next year, but couldn't pass up what essentially amounts to a $300 PS4 now.
Dude, score.
It's not that I'm asking for a cheap Halo 5 bundle (we'll probably get dozens in the UK anyway, so whatever), but many people are saying it would be their strongest hardware push this holiday. A box with the Halo logo and artwork on it is going to push far more units than either FO4, Tomb Raider or an assortment of older games that are past their best, sales-wise. There's an argument that they should do this to make the most of Halo as a console seller during the biggest sales period of the year. Yet they're not.
I was just suggesting a reason why, which is the pressure to show some profit from software sales instead of throwing everything in with the console. I don't know how true it is but Aqua always knew her stuff and never bullshitted anybody so I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of it.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm not so sure about this. Assuming SE or Sony have another marketing campaign for the game I think people who are excited about Tomb Raider will still buy it. The question I have is will either one be willing to market the same game twice a year later.
Unless the game happens to be a critical darling at 85+ MC, it will have to be discounted to sell really well imo.
Even at 90+, it better include all Dlcs to sell for full price a year old game.
And god help them if they have a reception akin to ACU...
Said it before and I'll say it again. I feel REALLY bad for Tomb Raider. Releasing the game on the same day as Fallout 4 IMO was already a death sentence. I've seen people saying they'll buy the game but I'm really not seeing any hype around it.
Add to that you got Halo, COD, Battlefront and FO 4 releasing within weeks of each other...I just don't see it.
I really hope the games does well though because it would suck for it to sell poorly and they shelve the franchise for a while. And this staggered launch they are doing for it I don't think will help either. It releases on PC in the Spring correct? When it launches it's still going to have tough competition with other high profile games being released. And by the time it launches on PS4 interest will be an all time low.
Add to that you got Halo, COD, Battlefront and FO 4 releasing within weeks of each other...I just don't see it.
I really hope the games does well though because it would suck for it to sell poorly and they shelve the franchise for a while. And this staggered launch they are doing for it I don't think will help either. It releases on PC in the Spring correct? When it launches it's still going to have tough competition with other high profile games being released. And by the time it launches on PS4 interest will be an all time low.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm guessing it will include all the DLC up until that point, just to sweeten the deal.
Crystal Dynamics games are pretty solid from a technical/bug/glitch perspective. I don't anticipate any real issues, certainly not on the face melting level of ACU.
As long as the Lara Croft Go series continues I'll be ok. LGC is a better and more faithful Tomb Raider game than the 2013 reboot was, and most likely this game as well.
Late ports rarely do all that well especially a year later.
Its most likely going to have the same issues next year.
Cross-posting from the other thread:
Rang up at $349.99 and got the $50 Target gift card. I was going to wait until next year, but couldn't pass up what essentially amounts to a $300 PS4 now.
And you got 3 amazing games (esp if you never played them before) with it.
That's a Black-Friday type deal and you didn't have to deal with any of that day's nonsense.
Yes the situation is worse than I expected because I thought that Tomb Raider would be treated like Assassin's Creed Unity last year so it would be featured in almost all the console bundles sold through the holiday season.
Instead based on the recent MS announcements the TR bundle will be just one of the many X1 bundles, NOT the main bundle like AC:U last year.
So even assuming that retail sales won't be that strong because of strong competition we can't say anymore that they will make up for it through bundled copies.
I also agree with the fact that the year late PS4 release won't have really strong sales because at that point the game will be considered old.
So yeah it doesn't seem like this was a good deal for Crystal Dynamics. But we'll see when the game is out.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
My guess is that Microsoft basically took the risk off the table for Tomb Raider's development. So even if it doesn't do all that well, it won't matter much from a financial POV on this current project.
The bigger gamble is the long-term risk Square took for the franchise. The launch of TR could have been a much bigger "event" had it been multiplat, and I do think sales of the title will suffer overall, which could impact plans for further entries in the series.
In that sense, I think it was a terrible decision. And also doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it's not directly competing with Uncharted this holiday season anyways. TR should have been delayed until next summer when there would be little to no competition.
The bigger gamble is the long-term risk Square took for the franchise. The launch of TR could have been a much bigger "event" had it been multiplat, and I do think sales of the title will suffer overall, which could impact plans for further entries in the series.
In that sense, I think it was a terrible decision. And also doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it's not directly competing with Uncharted this holiday season anyways. TR should have been delayed until next summer when there would be little to no competition.
demigod
Member
That didnt work. I bought all 3 Resistance, hell no am i paying $400 just to follow insomniac.
Who says FFVII remake is coming out next year? 2017 is more likely.
2017 is the goal since that will be the original's 20th anniversary.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
It usually takes SE about 4 or 5 years to make a big mainline FF game. The game didnt start development until 2014.
Brad Grenz
Member
Based on the announced bundles and the way they've tried to raise the average selling price on what's available, I definitely get the feeling Xbox does not have free reign to go after sales as hard this year as they did last.
Ps4 will win November pretty easily imo The cod bundle and especially the star wars bundle will be huge.
Sangetsu-II
Member
I'm happy my pre-ordered LE Darth Vader Bundle is $399 now 
It'll win October and December as well. MS hasn't had a console you can buy right now in the top 50 at Amazon US for quite awhile.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
Don't they gave that ridiculous expensive Halo LE there?
Wasn't 2011 the goal for Final Fantasy X as well?
This is probably going to be smaller targeted affair than something like FF15, with an already set engine and tools(UE4?). I could see 3+ years being enough
I meant buy right now. Like buy it, and then it arrives the next day. Their pre-order console is ranked way higher than any console you can buy right now. That's odd to me, and doesn't seem like it bodes well for them for the month of October.
If anything I think it simply shows that many who are getting an Xbox One this month will be doing it for Halo 5.
The bolded definitely played a part in my decision-making.
I sold the Uncharted digital voucher to a fellow Gaffer for $40, knocking the cost of the console down to $260. (I can wait for the inevitable Uncharted Collection Greatest Hits edition.)
I agree with most of what you said. I thought the exact same thing (bold) before all of the bundles were annouced (after knowing that MS would give Tomb Raider a bundle). I now really think the Fallout bundle (and bundles for the PS4) is going to overshadow it a bit.
hodayathink
Member
They couldn't have known that when they made the deal (which was well over a year ago). At that point, even the people at Sony (and maybe even ND) would have thought that the game releasing in the fall of this year.
Does it suggest that, though? The Halo bundle is at 37 and falling. The Halo 5 game by itself is at the top of the charts. This suggests to me that perhaps Halo 5 already sold a lot of consoles. It may also be indicative of the public seeing a 500 dollar console and laughing.
The Halo 5 bundle has been available for pre-order since August though. Hard to make a comparison since sales are split between months. I agree that $500 is a lot (and I felt that the bundle should have been cheaper when it was announced) but we also don't know how many people will get a regular XB1 SKU alongside Halo 5 after the game releases either.
This. I can't believe they don't have an option for a $400 Halo 5 Xbox Onee bundle.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
When are those new MS bundkes supposed to come on market?
But pre orders (at least on Amazon, and according to Abdiel at BB as well) don't seem to hint at that much of a rise in orders for October...
So they aren't selling -now- as much as some anticipate, and the pre-orders for the bundle aren't on the level either, at least for now.
Are people really waiting the very last minute (October 19th for the bundle, or the 26th for the regular SKUs already available)?
And if so, why did Destiny on PS4 have such a different hype level and pre-orders affect on Hardware than Halo 5 (at least as it appears right now)? For the record I am not a Destiny fan btw.
As reminder:
Destiny on PS4 (a new IP):
Bundle announced in July 2014 (for a September release)
- July Amazon ranking: #24 (standard PS4 @ #11)
- August Amazon ranking: #8 (standard PS4 @4)
- September Amazon ranking: #6 (standard PS4 @ 11)
Halo 5 on XB1
Bundle announced in August 2015 (for a late October release)
- August Amazon ranking: #24 (closest next SKU #40 MCC)
- September Amazon ranking: _ Not in the top 100 (first SKU is the Forza Bundle @ #56, followed by other bundles at #92 and #96)
- October: TBC (temporary, as of October 12th, the SKU is at #44, while having hovered around #35 in the past few days on the Hourly which, yes, means little aside from instant trending).
...
So ... Unless things change -Drastically- in the next two weeks ... I just don't see it.
PS: Obvisouly I- and many others- aren't saying that Halo 5 won't sell very well. It will probably break records in how fast it will sell, how many $millions it will bring to MS in the first 24h/ first week, and will probably have an insane attach rate with the existing user base.
What I am saying here is that it doesn't "look" like it is selling extra hardware in September/ October (and thus might not do too much for it either in Nov/ Dec), the main cause being imo that most (not all) of the 10+m people who are Halo fans probably already have an XB1.
If that is true, then the problem for MS will be to try to grow the Halo user base, but again maybe they have tapped that potential already in a now ultra-competitive market, and will possibly "pay" for the overall lack of -perceived- diversity in the appeal of their lineup?
October sure will be int... [gets smacked from behind by a baseball bat]
PPS: An obvious part of the problem is the price level of the bundle in my opinion. But even then if it was cheaper it would mean that other bundles like the GeoW or Forza would be selling less instead of the Halo bundles I guess.