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[Marty Chinn]

I'm not so sure about this. I think the market for people willing to pay more for slightly better stuff is bigger than people think. Just look at how many people buy the biggest sized giant iPhone

A bigger physical sized iPhone was because people wanted bigger screens. There's a certain utility to them being bigger. However, on the flip side, the biggest sellers tend to be the lowest capacity in storage in either model though. I also think this constant comparing to cell phones is misguided as it's a different market and different usage paradigm that you can't directly correlate to the console gaming market and behavior.

 

[chubigans]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

Microsoft literally has nothing to stop the Pro until Scorpio arrives. Their entire plan was to unveil Scorpio, proclaim it as the most powerful system ever with maybe 3-4 technical bulletpoints that range from vague (6TF, "true 4k," "VR capable") to silly ("the most beautiful pixels"), and play that up from now until release. Find me an interview with Phil that has any actual details about Scorpio compared to any Cerny interview about Pro. You can't. Obviously that's because one is releasing in a few weeks, another is still in early production. Phil has nothing but words to sell, and he sells them fairly well.

All devs are rushing to not only meet holiday deadlines but Pro compatibility as well for launch. I don't think Sony even knows what's going to be 100% ready for Pro launch. Since October all games are Pro-compatible so this is only a launch problem, but is it really asking a lot to not buy a Pro at launch and see what's going to be available?

 

[Lothars]

It's a niche product for a small subset of gamers. One shouldn't expect marketing on par with a full console launch. Scorpio will be the real deal and I suspect the marketing will be quite a bit more extensive. Plus it will be MS' first foray into console VR so the marketing will be huge.

I'm not convinced Scorpio will be the real deal especially if it's not priced right. They are trying to make a big deal about it.

 

[DigSCCP]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

Is it?
I dont think MS is not even close, and obviously they shouldn't cuz their console only release in 2017, coming close to what Mark Cerny is doing with the explanations about the Pro.
I could agree with you if you were talking only about the Pro and how Sony should be marketing in another way.
But the comparisons with Scorpio is getting ridiculous.
Do we know whats Scorpios price?
Do we know whats Scorpios specs?
Do we know what games will use Scorpios power?
Di we know how Scorpio how games will use Scorpios power?
I think fhe answer to all this questions on Scorpio are no, meanwhile on PS4 we got answers for all this questions.
Unless "most powerful" ,"the better 4k experience" , "the better VR experience " and other poor PR spins sundely has become good PR.

 

[icespide]

A bigger physical sized iPhone was because people wanted bigger screens. There's a certain utility to them being bigger. However, on the flip side, the biggest sellers tend to be the lowest capacity in storage in either model though. I also think this constant comparing to cell phones is misguided as it's a different market and different usage paradigm that you can't directly correlate to the console gaming market and behavior.

fair enough on the phone comparisons.

I guess what I'm getting at is that historically consoles have always been a race to the bottom price wise, with constant price cuts. There's never been an attempt to offer something at the same launch price with better specs (kinda like the Apple product model, increase specs but keep the same price). All I'm saying is that I think some folks are underestimating the potential for buyers there

 

[Lord Error]

Playing games better isn't the selling point of the Pro though. 4K and HDR is. And most Pro games aren't even native 4K and HDR will be on all PS4s. Meanwhile the Xbox One S can play 4K video including 4K Blu-ray, plus play video games on top of it for $100 less than the Pro making it a better value.

I think you are ever so slightly underselling the difference of the visual quality that PS4P will be able to produce compared to XB1. It's a machine that's 3x more powerful than XB1 in terms of GPU, and costs $100 more.

I would also say that playing games better is its selling point. Better and more stable framerate generally means that the game plays better.

 

[Wishmaster92]

You mean the post where you made no specific claim at all? How can we be talkin about that post when you didn't say anything of note. That's the whole reason why I prodded you to say exactly what you disagreed with so I could make a counter argument? Then the only way you could make an argument was to selectively quote me to remove the part that proved you wrong.

None of that matters because I have now successfully defended my claim that regarding the PS4 Pro...

"It's mostly a nice little bump in graphical quality for those who have 4K HDR TVs."​

This is not by any stretch a "nice little bump" it's basically bullshot quality in 1080p... It's not just improvements for 4k hdr tv owners...

Another user posted a paragon comparison. How is this a nice little bump lol? What were you expecting realtime raytracing at $399?

Some games will go a step above and actually improve the graphics to make the game look even better.

 

[cakely]

Microsoft literally has nothing to stop the Pro until Scorpio arrives. Their entire plan was to unveil Scorpio, proclaim it as the most powerful system ever with maybe 3-4 technical bulletpoints that range from vague (6TF, "true 4k," "VR capable") to silly ("the most beautiful pixels"), and play that up from now until release. Find me an interview with Phil that has any actual details about Scorpio compared to any Cerny interview about Pro. You can't. Obviously that's because one is releasing in a few weeks, another is still in early production. Phil has nothing but words to sell, and he sells them fairly well.

All devs are rushing to not only meet holiday deadlines but Pro compatibility as well for launch. I don't think Sony even knows what's going to be 100% ready for Pro launch. Since October all games are Pro-compatible so this is only a launch problem, but is it really asking a lot to not buy a Pro at launch and see what's going to be available?

Yes, this, exactly.

Microsoft has done their job well, because they've got people here comparing an actual, shipping product with detailed technical specifications to the plans for another product that's still over a year away.

The idea that the PS4P would require more PR, or better PR when pre-orders have already been so brisk is ludicrous. The PS4P was the #1 selling console in September on Amazon monthly and is in the lead for October. Let's wait to see November sales data and then we can see how much more promotion the PS4P required.

 

[Berserking Guts]

If anything the PS4 Pro has convinced me that now is the perfect time to get a gaming PC. I'm not interested in 4k gaming yet, I'm not planning on upgrading my TV for many years to come. Truth be told, I feel like Sony has left me in the dirt, as dramatic as that sounds.

 

[Avatar1]

If anything the PS4 Pro has convinced me that now is the perfect time to get a gaming PC. I'm not interested in 4k gaming yet, I'm not planning on upgrading my TV for many years to come. Truth be told, I feel like Sony has left me in the dirt, as dramatic as that sounds.

I'm confused how this product's existence leaves you in the dirt...

 

[Marty Chinn]

I guess what I'm getting at is that historically consoles have always been a race to the bottom price wise, with constant price cuts. There's never been an attempt to offer something at the same launch price with better specs (kinda like the Apple product model, increase specs but keep the same price). All I'm saying is that I think some folks are underestimating the potential for buyers there

I think you'll also find people on the opposite side of the spectrum too though. There are plenty of people putting too much weight on how big this will be or even how dramatic the difference between the visuals will be. The reality lies somewhere in between. We're entering a new and unproven business model where honestly it could go either way. I feel people shouldn't be ruling out one or the other when looking at how this is going to do.

 

[icespide]

I think you'll also find people on the opposite side of the spectrum too though. There are plenty of people putting too much weight on how big this will be or even how dramatic the difference between the visuals will be. The reality lies somewhere in between. We're entering a new and unproven business model where honestly it could go either way. I feel people shouldn't be ruling out one or the other when looking at how this is going to do.

definitely agree with you there

 

[MADGAME]

I'm not interested in 4k gaming at this time. I've said this in other threads, but a PS4 Pro sale for me personally depends on the quality of 1080p patches for existing games, and extra bells and whistles for upcoming titles in 1080 mode. We've heard examples of what we may see, but with no standard and leaving it up to the devs on a game by game basis means no buy from me. At least not until I know the additional $400 mid-gen double dip is undoubtedly worthwhile.

 

[Always-honest]

I'm not interested in 4k gaming at this time. I've said this in other threads, but a PS4 Pro sale for me personally depends on the quality of 1080p patches for existing games, and extra bells and whistles for upcoming titles in 1080 mode. We've heard examples of what we may see, but with no standard and leaving it up to the devs on a game by game basis means no buy from me. At least not until I know the additional $400 mid-gen double dip is undoubtedly worthwhile.

That's reasonable and wise. I preordered one because i think it's safe to assume it will get a lot of good support. But it remains to be seen. From what i've read allready i think i'm safe though.

 

[icespide]

That's reasonable and wise. I preordered one because i think it's safe to assume it will get a lot of good support. But it remains to be seen. From what i've read allready i think i'm safe though.

my logic was this: I usually buy the Slim revision of consoles anyway, now that there's an option for one with more power, might as will spring for it

 

[Always-honest]

If anything the PS4 Pro has convinced me that now is the perfect time to get a gaming PC. I'm not interested in 4k gaming yet, I'm not planning on upgrading my TV for many years to come. Truth be told, I feel like Sony has left me in the dirt, as dramatic as that sounds.

How?

 

[Curufinwe]

It's a niche product for a small subset of gamers. One shouldn't expect marketing on par with a full console launch. Scorpio will be the real deal and I suspect the marketing will be quite a bit more extensive. Plus it will be MS' first foray into console VR so the marketing will be huge.

Oh you mean those games that will run exclusively on Scorpio, and not on the Xbox one?

 

[TAJ]

Yes, although Scorpio will have an easier up-sell as the additional power will be much more noticeable.

Will it really be easier at $599?

 

[farmerboy]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

You have got to be kidding me.

 

[kyser73]

You have got to be kidding me.

Did you miss the whole 'I've come to Xbone from OS4 and my mind is blown' advertorial thread they made?

 

[icespide]

Yes, although Scorpio will have an easier up-sell as the additional power will be much more noticeable.

couple things the Scorpio will have going against it:

- price
- games have to work on the original Xbox One severely limited it's potential (yes the PS4 Pro has this issue as well, but I'd argue its even worse for the Scoprio considering just how much more powerful it is and how much weaker the Xbox One is)

 

[farmerboy]

Did you miss the whole 'I've come to Xbone from OS4 and my mind is blown' advertorial thread they made?

No I didn't. Unfortunately.

That quote above just boggles the mind. You're either pushing an agenda or a fanboy that is incapable of rational thought.

I hope he's a fanboy. At least that I can understand a little.

 

[Unknown?]

couple things the Scorpio will have going against it:

- price
- games have to work on the original Xbox One severely limited it's potential (yes the PS4 Pro has this issue as well, but I'd argue its even worse for the Scoprio considering just how much more powerful it is and how much weaker the Xbox One is)

It won't even be a big difference from the Pro. With all of the slick technologies they've employed and a year's worth of experience squeezing everything they can out of it I don't think there will be a noticeable difference until 2018 and by then no one will care.

 

[Peterc]

I knew this would probably happen. You can't do it all together.

PS4 PS4pro PSVR, is vita still in the picture?

For MS it's a different story, but I still doubt it will generate good sales. It would only help Ninendo switch to have a longer lifetime.

Think about it, how strong is scorpio? How many years would it take to have a next gen console that is not expensive and has a hugh different in gfx term.

The gaps are also getting smaller and smaller between each gen in visual terms, I believe the reason why they do this is because games are getting way to expensive. To bring a new console in 2 years as next gen, would give more pressure on the MAXbudgets from game developers.

 

[icespide]

It won't even be a big difference from the Pro. With all of the slick technologies they've employed and a year's worth of experience squeezing everything they can out of it I don't think there will be a noticeable difference until 2018 and by then no one will care.

especially considering the only games that could truly make a splash with the horsepower, exclusives, will be severely held back by having to be playable on Xbox One

I knew this would probably happen. You can't do it all together.

you knew what would happen?

 

[Fisty]

It won't even be a big difference from the Pro. With all of the slick technologies they've employed and a year's worth of experience squeezing everything they can out of it I don't think there will be a noticeable difference until 2018 and by then no one will care.

Don't forget AAAs tend to go for the lowest common denominator in most instances. I could see most devs having a "base" target and a "revision" target, one to hit the 2013 consoles and the other for the revisions. Sad part is that I don't forsee too many third parties using all the tricks and such of the revisions, especially since most people will be pushing for top shelf base performance.

 

[Peterc]

especially considering the only games that could truly make a splash with the horsepower, exclusives, will be severely held back by having to be playable on Xbox One


you knew what would happen?

Bad PR or future support for all the systems.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Will Scorpio games look much better than Horizon, Days Gone, GTS, & God of War?

If that's no, then I think releasing first and tying Pro to PS4 with a modest bump will prove to be the better decision.

And I don't mean DF comparisons better, I mean walk by and see God of War 4 and Halo 6 and Halo 6 blowing it away graphically speaking better.

If MS aren't doing this, I think there marketing will be dry to everyone but Xbox faithful. The market could easily say in spirit "This is good enough".

Stick with pro or not upgrade at all

 

[True Fire]

I'm not buying it for the PR, I'm buying it for 4K

Spoiler

Final Fantasy XV

. I don't care if the product crashes and burns as long as I get what I want

 

[icespide]

Will Scorpio games look much better than Horizon, Days Gone, GTS, & God of War?

If that's no, then I think releasing first and tying Pro to PS4 with a modest bump will prove to be the better decision.

And I don't mean DF comparisons better, I mean walk by and see God of War 4 and Halo 6 and Halo 6 blowing it away graphically speaking better.

If MS aren't doing this, I think there marketing will be dry to everyone but Xbox faithful. The market could easily say in spirit "This is good enough".

Stick with pro or not upgrade at all

what's interesting is that they are going to be pushing the NATIVE 4K angle hard when it will turn out that they were right all long, native resolution doesn't really matter that much to the general audience as long as its close enough (900p vs 1080p)

 

[Fisty]

Will Scorpio games look much better than Horizon, Days Gone, GTS, & God of War?

If that's no, then I think releasing first and tying Pro to PS4 with a modest bump will prove to be the better decision.

And I don't mean DF comparisons better, I mean walk by and see God of War 4 and Halo 6 and Halo 6 blowing it away graphically speaking better.

If MS aren't doing this, I think there marketing will be dry to everyone but Xbox faithful. The market could easily say in spirit "This is good enough".

Stick with pro or not upgrade at all

If they are pushing for 4k native for every title on 6TFs, no I don't think the IQ difference will be that big.

 

[Crayon]

Will Scorpio games look much better than Horizon, Days Gone, GTS, & God of War?

Likely not. We have seen the difference 30% makes and now we are seeing it again. It's noticeable but can be eclipsed by developer talent. Another 30% jump for Scorpio will be no different and they will need at least one showcase game to prove its such a monster when the time comes.

 

[platocplx]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

I am at a loss for words. Seriously. What the hell has MS sold you? they havent shown a price, a finalized spec, not even a screen shot and you are all in. Holy crap the delusion on this system has become mythical. I hope you arent disappointed in 12 months. seems like the perfect subject to see raging about Scorpio and MS lying to you.

 

[Metfanant]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

I still love this stance...we literally know next to NOTHING about Scorpio outside of a spec sheet that makes some objectively incorrect statements about it being the only console to offer true 4k gaming and VR

 

[mordecaii83]

Why is "All games will look better and should also run smoother"* not enough? I don't understand what some people were looking for. If you're happy with how PS4 games have looked and ran so far, stick with the base model. If you're looking for more, buy a PS4 Pro. Easy.

And if you're buying a new system, just buy the Pro for $100 more if you care about graphics.

*If they release October of this year and onward or are getting patched.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Playing games better isn't the selling point of the Pro though. 4K and HDR is. And most Pro games aren't even native 4K and HDR will be on all PS4s. Meanwhile the Xbox One S can play 4K video including 4K Blu-ray, plus play video games on top of it for $100 less than the Pro making it a better value.

It's not? funny 'cause "playing games better" sold my 1080p ass on a pro. Meanwhile the Xbox S is like 3x slower than the Pro and will be replaced in a year, so I'm not really sold on it being a better value.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

If you are on Neogaf and and don't know what the PS4 Pro has to offer you are bring willfully ignorant. For the mass market yes the marketing has been sub-par. I still think we see a focused campaign before launch probably starting by next Monday at the latest.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Why is "All games will look better and should also run smoother"* not enough? I don't understand what some people were looking for. If you're happy with how PS4 games have looked and ran so far, stick with the base model. If you're looking for more, buy a PS4 Pro. Easy.

And if you're buying a new system, just buy the Pro for $100 more if you care about graphics.

*If they release October of this year and onward or are getting patched.

Because it's not a all or nothing scenario. The decision isn't a binary one like you laid it out. It's not an unreasonable stance to want to know how much better the games are going to look so someone can do their own cost/benefit analysis. People do that with everything they buy and there's a choice. In this case they either want to know if they should jump through the hoops and spend more money to replace their existing PS4 or if they want to buy their first PS4 instead of the Pro or even if they should just wait for Scorpio. None of those are irrational decisions. So no, it's not so easy as you put it.

 

[shouamabane]

PS4 Pro is a puzzling half-step to me. Other than Sony milking hardcore fans, I just don't get it.

 

[Chamber]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

Is this a joke post? Scorpio is just a teraflop number right now.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

It's not a particularly compelling product

strongly disagree here. Best bang for your bucks. 400$ makes it a very compelling product, and the hands on impressions by DF are mouth watering.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Yeah. That is why I decided to wait and purchase Scorpio...Too much of the unknown. Can't be spending $400.

So you don't think in the 1 year from the time the pro releases and the scorpio releases you will find more information about the Pro? Lmao. What do we know about the Scorpio?

 

[Toth]

Just got an email from Amazon about a delay on shipping. I preordered Sept. 12 for reference.

We're encountering a delay in shipping your order and we're unable to meet your chosen delivery date. We'll make every effort to get the delayed item to you as soon as possible. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Details
Order #xxxxxxxxxxxx
Placed on Monday, September 12, 2016
New scheduled delivery date:
The carrier will call you to set up a time.

View or Cancel Order
Ship to:
xxxxxxxxx
Sony PlayStation 4 P... Sony PlayStation 4 Pro - 1TB

Sold by Amazon.com LLC

If your shipment arrives too late, you may refuse delivery or return it for a refund.

We hope to see you again soon.
Amazon.com

Is there some delay incoming?

 

[Heavy_D206]

Some people love to harp on the "Pro isn't NATIVE 4K" nonsense, but I've watched the Horizon 4K direct feed footage on my 4K TV and it looks better than any console game I've ever seen.

 

[CyberPunked]

This is not by any stretch a "nice little bump" it's basically bullshot quality in 1080p... It's not just improvements for 4k hdr tv owners...

Another user posted a paragon comparison. How is this a nice little bump lol? What were you expecting realtime raytracing at $399?

Those are bullshots though...

 

[Asd202]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

Hahahahahahahaha no. Scorpio is nothing more than a promise and PR at the moment there's no concrete information at all.

 

[VincentMatts]

Honestly, the more i think about it the more i feel like pro and scorpio are kinda useless. I mean, why not just start a new generation at that point but have the ps4 and xbox one games "compatible" with them?

I feel like forcing developers to not add anything on pro games that wouldn't be available for ps4 is kinda pointless. Id prefer if they allowed some games to run only on Pro. This would give developers the opportunity to really take advantage of this hardware. But as it is now, i dunno, it just seems kinda half assed for both these mid-tear consoles.

We get more power, but no real advantages other than frame-rate and visuals. I dunno if i even want these anymore.

I understand that they dont want anyone to be "left behind" but it just cripples what developers can really do with hardware.

 

[2blackcats]

Just got an email from Amazon about a delay on shipping. I preordered Sept. 12 for reference.



Is there some delay incoming?

Guess that explains the lack of advertising. It's sold out.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

So you don't think in the 1 year from the time the pro releases and the scorpio releases you will find more information about the Pro? Lmao. What do we know about the Scorpio?

6 teraflops and a lot of talk.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

Lots of concerned people in here. LMAO. Can't wait for the Prop to release so we can squash all this nonsense.