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[Putty]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

11/10 😂

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Honestly, the more i think about it the more i feel like pro and scorpio are kinda useless. I mean, why not just start a new generation at that point but have the ps4 and xbox one games "compatible" with them?

I feel like forcing developers to not add anything on pro games that wouldn't be available for ps4 is kinda pointless. Id prefer if they allowed some games to run only on Pro. This would give developers the opportunity to really take advantage of this hardware. But as it is now, i dunno, it just seems kinda half assed for both these mid-tear consoles.

We get more power, but no real advantages other than frame-rate and visuals. I dunno if i even want these anymore.

I understand that they dont want anyone to be "left behind" but it just cripples what developers can really do with hardware.

Because the tech for a new generation is not there yet for AMD, especially not at an affordable price. Probably a few years away.

Lots of concerned people in here. LMAO. Can't wait for the Prop to release so we can squash all this nonsense.

The initial sales will be good. That much has been confirmed.

 

[Toth]

Guess that explains the lack of advertising. It's sold out.

It's still up for preorder on Amazon though. the NEs Remix has been sold out and is not available for preorders.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

6 teraflops and a lot of talk.

Seriously and I heard them say that it will play games in native 4k. But some games play in native 4k on PS4 Pro too no?

I just can't wait until the console releases so we can all stop worrying.

 

[2blackcats]

It's still up for preorder on Amazon though. the NEs Remix has been sold out and is not available for preorders.

Sorry, I was joking. This thread is hilarious.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Seriously and I heard them say that it will play games in native 4k. But some games play in native 4k on PS4 Pro too no?

I just can't wait until the console releases so we can all stop worrying.

First party games will be 4K. I seriously doubt every game will be.

 

[VincentMatts]

Because the tech for a new generation is not there yet for AMD, especially not at an affordable price. Probably a few years away.



The initial sales will be good. That much has been confirmed.

well i mean with 6-7 or 10 teraflops and no restrictions, this is already a huge jump from the 1.8TF we have now. This could very well be a "next gen" but they wont allow it because of those restrictions.

 

[cackhyena]

I'm most excited for Scirpio, but I'll still have zero interest in 4k.

 

[ty_hot]

The thing is that people want all information crystal clear. Sony already explained everything. Original ps4 plays all games, ps4 pro will run all games normally and some (patched) games better. Those that run better will be in 4K, which means that if you have a 4k tv you will play it like this and if you have a fullhd tv it will run in 1080p but with better definition (because its rendered at a higher resolution). Additionally there is the option that it wil have better effects on 1080p (compared with the 4k version and the original version).

It seems difficult, but its just 3 Y/N questions. Simple. Is the game patched? Y/N. Do you have a 4k tv? Y/N. Does 1080p mode has better effects? Y/N. Where is the difficulty?

If you don't know in game X will be like this or like that, its nit Sony's fault.

 

[El-Pistolero]

No I didn't. Unfortunately.

That quote above just boggles the mind. You're either pushing an agenda or a fanboy that is incapable of rational thought.

I hope he's a fanboy. At least that I can understand a little.

There are two major categories of concerned gamers in threads that relate to the Pro version of the PS4:

1- People who have the vanilla console and think that they are somehow screwed by the introduction of the newer system.
2- People who have had no intention of buying a PS4 to begin with, let alone another iteration of the plateform.

I used to belong to the first group. I was fearful of what a mid-gen upgrade would entail, but the information that has been shared since the rumors started circulating has put my mind at ease. I see no reason to jump, personnally, but I can appreciate that new comers and technology enthusiasts might be interested in doing so. Their decision has no bearing on the one that I made less than two years ago, when my PS4 was acquired, and I will be enjoying every game on my machine until the next one drops (PS5). There is nothing more juvenile that being bitter because somebody else has the money and desire to shell out $399 and enjoy the better version of software. How does it undermine my own experience, really? The only problem would emerge if developers were to start butchering the PS4 classic titles, relegating them to an afterthought...But that will never happen. There is something like 44 million PS4 users out there, and there is no way Sony will leave them in the dirt...

 

[Duxxy3]

The most disappointing part of the PS4 Pro, for me, has been Sony's insistence on sticking with the dualshock 4 and offering no alternatives or upgrades. They put such an emphasis on the box that they completely forget about the input method.

edit: I'd probably be more interested in 4k, but there are no 4k monitors with HDR.

 

[Futurevoid]

PS4 Pro is a puzzling half-step to me. Other than Sony milking hardcore fans, I just don't get it.

It's not at all puzzling but you're absolutely right - its a half step. The very design of the console is a mid-generation refresh meant to appeal to gamers who:

A. Want better image quality and or visuals for their existing 1080p gaming set-ups. These improvements will come in the form of super-sampling and or visual improvements the developer chooses.

B. Have an existing 4K/HDR setup and want to more content for these devices. This includes a range of native 4K games as well a variety of rendering techniques (checkerboard rendering as an example) that are meant to approximate a native 4K image at far less cost than brute forcing the hardware.

All for the cost $100 more than the current slim model PS4 which is going nowhere and offers the PS4 experience that has been established for three years. Existing PS4 owners can choose to upgrade if option A or B is enticing. Or not and still experience the same games they would have.

New prospective PS4 owners can make their choice based on the same criteria. Do those options above appeal along with a bigger HDD for $100?

I'm struggling to understand what's so confusing about these scenarios or what more in the way of PR Sony have to do here?

The most disappointing part of the PS4 Pro, for me, has been Sony's insistence on sticking with the dualshock 4 and offering no alternatives or upgrades. They put such an emphasis on the box that they completely forget about the input method.

Dual Shock 4 needs a better battery solution and improved QA (rubber on the sticks peeling, etc.). Outside of that, the input method is just fine for a vast number of gamers out there. I own both consoles and I like both controllers. I just detest the battery life of the DS4 which is really what needed to be reassessed with this new console. Not adding a stupid light bar strip to the touchpad.:/

 

[VincentMatts]

I'm most excited for Scirpio, but I'll still have zero interest in 4k.

Thats because you didnt try it. I have an xbox one s with a 4k tv and im already sold on it. And thats with an xbox one which isnt even that powerful. once you try it, its hard to go back. Even if its upscaled.

 

[IvorB]

On a 1080p tv, patched games will be rendered at higher and then scaled back down to 1080. I'm not sure this is so hard to imagine.

This is what everyone says but is this something that happens automatically? Does it need the dev to implement this specifically? I'm still not clear whether this is a standard benefit that all games will get or just a potential thing. If it's just a potential thing then it's as good as nothing really until the devs actually come forward and say they are implementing it for x, y game.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

well i mean with 6-7 or 10 teraflops and no restrictions, this is already a huge jump from the 1.8TF we have now. This could very well be a "next gen" but they wont allow it because of those restrictions.

6 to 7 teraflops is not enough for new gen imo. 10 to 12TF GPU, 16GB of RAM and massively better CPU than AMD currently makes for notebook should sounds about right.

The most disappointing part of the PS4 Pro, for me, has been Sony's insistence on sticking with the dualshock 4 and offering no alternatives or upgrades. They put such an emphasis on the box that they completely forget about the input method.

edit: I'd probably be more interested in 4k, but there are no 4k monitors with HDR.

DS4 is fine. Buy a Scuff if you need a better, customizable controller.

 

[cackhyena]

Thats because you didnt try it. I have an xbox one s with a 4k tv and im already sold on it. And thats with an xbox one which isnt even that powerful. once you try it, its hard to go back. Even if its upscaled.

To try it I'd have to have a 4k tv. I'd rather have the console. I'm sure it's nice. It ain't gonna blow my dick off. That's the test it has to pass. Dick obliteration.

 

[Duxxy3]

6 to 7 teraflops is not enough for new gen imo. 10 to 12TF GPU, 16GB of RAM and massively better CPU than AMD currently makes for notebook should sounds about right.



DS4 is fine. Buy a Scuff if you need a better, customizable controller.

Does scuf replace the awful triggers on the controller?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Does scuf replace the awful triggers on the controller?

Not sure.

Edit: yes you can modify the triggers.

 

[Yopis]

Thats because you didnt try it. I have an xbox one s with a 4k tv and im already sold on it. And thats with an xbox one which isnt even that powerful. once you try it, its hard to go back. Even if its upscaled.

This is true.

 

[Lord Error]

PS4 Pro is a puzzling half-step to me. Other than Sony milking hardcore fans, I just don't get it.

It is much less puzzling (to me at least) than the typical console redesigns that we get around this time. There's an actual reason to buy this thing over the regular model other than "It's white!".

 

[Bold One]

Slim, Psvr AND PRO all coming out within weeks of each other, is a marketing logistical nightmare.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

I think you are ever so slightly underselling the difference of the visual quality that PS4P will be able to produce compared to XB1. It's a machine that's 3x more powerful than XB1 in terms of GPU, and costs $100 more.

I would also say that playing games better is its selling point. Better and more stable framerate generally means that the game plays better.

I don't think anyone who is downplaying the ps4 pro is thinking things through. The difference before the PS4 Pro compared to the Scorpio (what we know of it) is almost the same as the difference between the xbox 1 to the Ps4.

Xbox 1=1.31 TF / PS4 Pro=4.12 TF - 40% increase
PS4 Pro=4.12 TF / Scorpio=6 TF - 45% increase

This doesn't take into account that PS4 Pro will have a whole year head start for the developers to get accustomed to working on it.

The one thing no one is mentioning is that the PS4 Pro will be over 3X more powerful than the Xbox 1 and 2.2X more than the vanilla PS4.

FOR A WHOLE YEAR! Based on these numbers I don't think there will be a HUGE difference between PS4 Pro and Scorpio graphics but there will be a big difference between PS4 Pro and vanilla Xbox one.

I might be way off base but at lease I am trying to be reasonable. If I am wrong then I'll buy both.

 

[VincentMatts]

To try it I'd have to have a 4k tv. I'd rather have the console. I'm sure it's nice. It ain't gonna blow my dick off. That's the test it has to pass. Dick obliteration.

Those are high standards. lol honestly i just got a regular 40 inch 4k in my bedroom, wasnt that expensive and has HDR. It cost me like 900 Canadian and this was a year ago. Prices are actually not that bad unless you go for the best of the best which is way too $.

All that to say, once you see it you wont wanna go back.

This is true.

Yep, Its easy to not want something youve never experienced.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Slim, Psvr AND PRO all coming out within weeks of each other, is a marketing logistical nightmare.

This is one of the things I don't get with Sony's strategy. They're releasing two high end products within weeks of each other when there's probably a lot of cross over between the target audience that they cater to.

 

[GinoFelino]

This is not by any stretch a "nice little bump" it's basically bullshot quality in 1080p... It's not just improvements for 4k hdr tv owners...

Another user posted a paragon comparison. How is this a nice little bump lol? What were you expecting realtime raytracing at $399?

Thanks. I didn't have the energy anymore

 

[Chamber]

Thats because you didnt try it. I have an xbox one s with a 4k tv and im already sold on it. And thats with an xbox one which isnt even that powerful. once you try it, its hard to go back. Even if its upscaled.

This is true. 1440p on a 4K screen looks clean as hell at regular viewing distances, definitely a noticeable improvement from 1080p. Horizon and God of War 4 at 1800p should look incredible.

 

[Always-honest]

Those are bullshots though...

The original screens are in a higher resolution i think. On gamersyde you can find them and there you can see jaggies. On 100% that is.

link

But yeah.. downsampling is often used for bullshots, right?

 

[VincentMatts]

This is one of the things I don't get with Sony's strategy. They're releasing two high end products within weeks of each other when there's probably a lot of cross over between the target audience that they cater to.

I think they figured that even it sells bad during the holidays, its still good numbers.

To me VR should have been out during the summer. Releasing it now will only cater to the very hardcore. I dont see it doing well long term.

 

[mordecaii83]

Because it's not a all or nothing scenario. The decision isn't a binary one like you laid it out. It's not an unreasonable stance to want to know how much better the games are going to look so someone can do their own cost/benefit analysis. People do that with everything they buy and there's a choice. In this case they either want to know if they should jump through the hoops and spend more money to replace their existing PS4 or if they want to buy their first PS4 instead of the Pro or even if they should just wait for Scorpio. None of those are irrational decisions. So no, it's not so easy as you put it.

That's all well and good, but people in here are asking for a blanket statement, and what I said provides that. Since every game will have different enhancements on the Pro we'll have to wait to see exactly what it does for each game released. But if a vague "everything will look and run better" isn't enough to justify the purchase, then it seems to me it should be an easy decision to sit back and wait.

 

[cackhyena]

Those are high standards. lol honestly i just got a regular 40 inch 4k in my bedroom, wasnt that expensive and has HDR. It cost me like 900 Canadian and this was a year ago. Prices are actually not that bad unless you go for the best of the best which is way too $.

All that to say, once you see it you wont wanna go back.

I do want it eventually. More for HDR than 4k, but I know it's a package deal nowadays. I do tend to go for higher end, best reviews, etc. I'd want nothing less than 55 inches to start with. So yeah, gonna be a while.

 

[visiblemode]

I think the Pro bashing is ridiculous, but I think OP has a point. I'm excited for the thing and feel like reading about it. They should be dripfeeding us new stuff at this point, instead we're still debating it's validity here. They need to give us more to talk about.

 

[Always-honest]

I think the Pro bashing is ridiculous, but I think OP has a point. I'm excited for the thing and feel like reading about it. They should be dripfeeding us new stuff at this point, instead we're still debating it's validity here. They need to give us more to talk about.

Hopefully devs and Sony will show a lot more in the coming days and weeks.

 

[CyberPunked]

The original screens are in a higher resolution i think. On gamersyde you can find them and there you can see jaggies. On 100% that is.

link

But yeah.. downsampling is often used for bullshots, right?

No, promotional shots are often bullshots, and if i'm not mistaken, those are promotional shots.

 

[Always-honest]

No, promotional shots are often bullshots, and if i'm not mistaken, those are promotional shots.

Yeah i know. But they are often downsampled images.
Maybe BlimBlim can enlighten us?

 

[Sweep14]

I don't think anyone who is downplaying the ps4 pro is thinking things through. The difference before the PS4 Pro compared to the Scorpio (what we know of it) is almost the same as the difference between the xbox 1 to the Ps4.

Xbox 1=1.31 TF / PS4 Pro=4.12 TF - 314% increase
PS4 Pro=4.12 TF / Scorpio=6 TF - 45% increase

This doesn't take into account that PS4 Pro will have a whole year head start for the developers to get accustomed to working on it.

The one thing no one is mentioning is that the PS4 Pro will be over 3X more powerful than the Xbox 1 and 2.2X more than the vanilla PS4.

FOR A WHOLE YEAR! Based on these numbers I don't think there will be a HUGE difference between PS4 Pro and Scorpio graphics but there will be a big difference between PS4 Pro and vanilla Xbox one.

I might be way off base but at lease I am trying to be reasonable. If I am wrong then I'll buy both.

Correction

 

[GinoFelino]

I don't think anyone who is downplaying the ps4 pro is thinking things through. The difference before the PS4 Pro compared to the Scorpio (what we know of it) is almost the same as the difference between the xbox 1 to the Ps4.

Xbox 1=1.31 TF / PS4 Pro=4.12 TF - 40% increase
PS4 Pro=4.12 TF / Scorpio=6 TF - 45% increase

This doesn't take into account that PS4 Pro will have a whole year head start for the developers to get accustomed to working on it.

The one thing no one is mentioning is that the PS4 Pro will be over 3X more powerful than the Xbox 1 and 2.2X more than the vanilla PS4.

FOR A WHOLE YEAR! Based on these numbers I don't think there will be a HUGE difference between PS4 Pro and Scorpio graphics but there will be a big difference between PS4 Pro and vanilla Xbox one.

I might be way off base but at lease I am trying to be reasonable. If I am wrong then I'll buy both.

That first 40% comparison was supposed to be with OG PS4, I think...

 

[Sniffynose]

I'm going to base my choice off of Digital Foundry findings and real world tests because yet again all we have is pages of fighting over speculation, there is no real information. We have a few games with some confirmed benefits, that's it.

For the 4k owners, the only games making use of your beautiful screen is the new future ones patched to use it, the entire PS4 library as it stands will just be upscaled, shitty frame rates and all.

It sounds like November some sort of NDA lifts so maybe then we can read some real information.

Having Cerny go over the hardware shows us how impressive it "could" be, now we need proof that it's going to actually be put to use.

 

[icespide]

I'm going to base my choice off of Digital Foundry findings and real world tests because yet again all we have is pages of fighting over speculation, there is no real information. We have a few games with some confirmed benefits, that's it.

For the 4k owners, the only games making use of your beautiful screen is the new future ones patched to use it, the entire PS4 library as it stands will just be upscaled, shitty frame rates and all.

It sounds like November some sort of NDA lifts so maybe then we can read some real information.

Having Cerny go over the hardware shows us how impressive it "could" be, now we need proof that it's going to actually be put to use.

what the heck are you talking about? we have lots of real information, including several posts and links in this very thread

 

[Lady Gaia]

Some people love to harp on the "Pro isn't NATIVE 4K" nonsense, but I've watched the Horizon 4K direct feed footage on my 4K TV and it looks better than any console game I've ever seen.

Very much this. I don't get the obsession with native 4K at this point in time. It's simply not the most rational tradeoff for most developers on any console likely to ship in the next few years. You're always looking for a sweet spot balancing per-pixel quality against sheer resolution to deliver the best impression possible. For some visual styles and technologies that's going to favor resolution, and for others the preference will be high-quality shaders and effects at sub-native resolutions.

There is zero question of whether this will benefit people with 4K displays. Was the Xbox 360 not a worthwhile console on 1080p displays because of all the sub-native titles? Is every single UHD Blu-ray pointless because most of them were edited on 2K intermediaries and all of them use lossy compression resulting in something less than per-pixel perfect reproduction of the film master?

There is also zero question of whether downscaling the result will produce a cleaner image for new titles. You'll either get that, an alternative strategy the developer opts for because they thinks it's a better choice on 1080p displays, or in rare cases a title that simply runs more smoothly without any other benefits. In some cases you'll get to choose between multiple options.

This doesn't make the PS4 Pro a must-own console for everyone. I completely get wanting to skip this iteration waiting for something down the road to minimize your total cost. That's just exercising your prerogative as a consumer. Insisting that it's a mistake by Sony or that there aren't very real benefits that we've lauded in past consoles amounts to FUD, whether intentional or not.

 

[Stillmatic]

what the heck are you talking about? we have lots of real information, including several posts and links in this very thread

I think at this stage some people are straight up ignoring information, or haven't bothered looking for it.

 

[krioto]

Just compare Phil Spencer's level of openness about the Scorpio and the amount of media interviews he has done since June for a console not out in another 18 months compared to Sony's lacklustre offerings. Microsoft have done a far more effective job in actually explaining why their next iteration console will be about, and what it means for those without 4k sets.

But more surprising than Sony's relative silence is the amount of people who find the silence normal and ask for prospective owners to wait after its release to find out how well it handles 1080p screens.

Just remarkable stuff.

amusing - would you say you were blown away by the difference?

 

[icespide]

I think at this stage some people are straight up ignoring information, or haven't bothered looking for it.

right? you'd have to go out of your way to avoid information for the last couple months

 

[Fdkn]

There are two major categories of concerned gamers in threads that relate to the Pro version of the PS4:

1- People who have the vanilla console and think that they are somehow screwed by the introduction of the newer system.
2- People who have had no intention of buying a PS4 to begin with, let alone another iteration of the plateform.

I used to belong to the first group. I was fearful of what a mid-gen upgrade would entail, but the information that has been shared since the rumors started circulating has put my mind at ease. I see no reason to jump, personnally, but I can appreciate that new comers and technology enthusiasts might be interested in doing so. Their decision has no bearing on the one that I made less than two years ago, when my PS4 was acquired, and I will be enjoying every game on my machine until the next one drops (PS5). There is nothing more juvenile that being bitter than somebody else has the money and desire to shell out $399 and enjoy the better version of software. How does it undermine my own experience, really? The only problem would emerge if developers were to start butchering the PS4 classic titles, relegating them to an afterthought...But that will never happened. There is something like 44 million PS4 users out there, and there is no way Sony will leave them in the dirt...

Are you me? 100% agree with this

I even upgraded to a slim a few weeks ago because I found a wonderful deal: sold my og 500gb ps4 (only the console, keeping my ds4) for 180€ and bought a 1tb slim for 245€ brand new so I have again 2 years of warranty and a quieter, smaller system that's going to get supported until ps5 drops.

 

[Maybesew]

Could care less about the PR. I'm an adult and would rather have an upgraded PS4 than the launch model. Whatever the benefits, I'll take them. I got a few years out of my console, that's good enough for me.

 

[dano1]

Could care less about the PR. I'm an adult and would rather have an upgraded PS4 than the launch model. Whatever the benefits, I'll take them. I got a few years out of my console, that's good enough for me.

+1

 

[FairXchange]

Slim, Psvr AND PRO all coming out within weeks of each other, is a marketing logistical nightmare.

Actually all three were spaced out pretty well across 2 months almost.

 

[Jacksinthe]

I think the Pro bashing is ridiculous, but I think OP has a point. I'm excited for the thing and feel like reading about it. They should be dripfeeding us new stuff at this point, instead we're still debating it's validity here. They need to give us more to talk about.

I don't get it. It's a beefier PS4. Everyone knows this. What is there to drip feed?

Yesterday's News: "Introducing the PS4 Pro! It does everything better!"

Today's News: "Yup! PS4 Pro is still doing everything better!"

What do you want to hear? We already know what it does and who it is intended for. Either you are in or you are out. There's nothing mystical about it. There's no surprises to be had.

Do you want more out of your games for that mid-gen slump? Cool. But it. The extra horsepower not attractive? Cool. You can still play all the same games as you have been, nothing changes.

 

[captainraincoat]

The reception at our ebs in our state has been pretty luke warm for pspro (partner is a regional mgr) and indications are that there will be a shitload of consoles available and to perhaps hold off as sony might be offering pack in deals to try and kick things along quicker as the numbers are down from expected.

The momentum at the moment appears to be with the xbox slim consoles as the 500gb gears/bf1/forza/fifa bundles are very popular.

 

[Portugeezer]

Nah. NFC support, C-stick, faster processor and face-tracking for the 3D. The differences were made abunduntly clear.

They were just barely used.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Honestly, the more i think about it the more i feel like pro and scorpio are kinda useless. I mean, why not just start a new generation at that point but have the ps4 and xbox one games "compatible" with them?

I feel like forcing developers to not add anything on pro games that wouldn't be available for ps4 is kinda pointless. Id prefer if they allowed some games to run only on Pro. This would give developers the opportunity to really take advantage of this hardware. But as it is now, i dunno, it just seems kinda half assed for both these mid-tear consoles.

We get more power, but no real advantages other than frame-rate and visuals. I dunno if i even want these anymore.

I understand that they dont want anyone to be "left behind" but it just cripples what developers can really do with hardware.

Because for Sony PS5 will be a clean break tech wise.