kyliethicc
Member
TLDR
All PS4 games on PS5 will run in boost mode. Full clocks. Always.
And the Xbox Series X is doing the same thing.
Introduction
Ok let’s try to make this easy to understand. I think people are confused. But I think this can be clear if you read what is said.
So the key line from Sony’s PS Blog update is this:
“We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions.”
Ok so Sony is expecting PS4 games will always be in boost mode (full clocks.) Again, this line is very important. It says PS4 games are expected to run in boosted frequencies. Not some games, not even most. They just say “backwards compatible titles” meaning ALL PS4 games will use the full CPU and GPU clock speeds on PS5.
This makes sense. Why wouldn’t you just run the full clocks all the time? Games would always run at least good as they did, or they’d run even better. The results would vary, but this certainly implies they will NOT have a non-boost mode. (But maybe they could change their approach later with an update, idk.)
Exhibit A
So read Sony’s full statement from the PS Blog:
“A quick update on backward compatibility – With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5. We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.”
“We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.”
“In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch.”
https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/
Notice they don’t say all games. This probably implies they know a few games might not be playable. Why? Because boosted clocks could brake a game’s code (as I’ll show when Cerny says this exact thing.) Sony probably just don’t want to over promise. Better to over-deliver then disappoint.
Obviously, they also don’t say “most games at launch.” The timeframe is vague. So... worst case, most games are playable, but not at launch. Best case, they’re playable at launch. Wait and see. Now again, “overwhelming majority” is a bit vague. So take your guess at that actual number. Idk. I doubt even Sony knows exactly.
Exhibit B
This statement lines up with what Cerny said in his talk about backwards compatibility. Mark Cerny on PS5 Backwards Compatibility:
“A better way is to incorporate any differences in the previous console’s logic into the new console’s custom chips. Meaning that even as the technology evolves, the logic and feature set that PS4 and PS4 Pro titles rely on is still available in backwards compatible modes ... ... as any roadmap advancement creates a potential divergence in logic. Running PS4 and PS4 [Pro] titles at boosted frequencies has also added complexity. The boost is truly massive this time around and some game code just can’t handle it. Testing has to be done on a title by title basis.Results are excellent though. We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles, as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch.”
- Mark Cerny, The Road to PS5 (around 27-28 mins in)
https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/
It seems to me like that graphic with 3 modes that Cerny used, showing “PS5 Native Mode” and “PS4 Pro / PS4 Legacy Modes” are as follows:
Exhibit C
This is very, very similar to what Digital Foundry wrote about Xbox Series X and Xbox One backwards compatibility. Digital Foundry on Xbox Series X backwards compatibility:
“It likely comes as no surprise to discover that Series X can technically run the entire Xbox One catalogue, but this time it's done with no emulation layer - it's baked in at the hardware level. Games also benefit from the full CPU and GPU clocks of Series X (Xbox One X effectively delivered 50 per cent of its overall graphics power for back-compat), meaning that the more lacklustre of those performance modes added to many Xbox One X games should hopefully lock to a silky smooth 60fps.”
- Digital Foundry, Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
So Xbox is also planning on using full clocks to boost Xbox One games. This also NOT software emulation. It’s baked into the custom AMD hardware. But they’re not just putting a second chipset from the Xbox One into the new console (like how PS3 did it.) It’s built into the XSX’s new chip. This is the same approach as what Cerny said PS5 is doing.
This is likely because AMD worked with both Microsoft and Sony to ensure backwards compatibility was built into the hardware on the next-gen consoles. I doubt it’s a coincidence that both companies are mentioning using full clocks for backwards compatibility and that’s its hardware based. (Because AMD makes both of the APUs.)
Conclusion
But does this mean the PS5 COULD use lower clocks? My guess is yes it could, but probably won’t at launch. I think Sony want the PS5, at a minimum, to be an over-clocked PS4. Imagine a PS4 Pro but the GPU is running at 2.23 GHz, CPU at 3.5 GHz, etc.
Sony & Cerny say some games won’t work at full clocks. Those games won’t be playable at launch and might need to be patched by the devs to work on PS5, because the PS5 is going to always use those full clock speeds (boost mode.)
Because if PS4 games could run on PS5 at lower clock speeds, then all games would work. Cerny specifically says some games won’t work because of the boosted frequencies. Sony then said games that fail their tests will require the developers to patch the game if they want it to run on PS5.
For me, this obviously makes it clear. They are not going to use lower clocks to fix the issue, PS5 is always using full CPU/GPU frequencies. This is the same as what Xbox Series X is doing with Xbox One games.
And, of the games they’ve tested, almost all are working fine. Most games will be playable, eventually. Some games will be the same as on PS4. Some will run even better, but a few won’t work.
Jim Ryan has just said "99%" of PS4 games will be playable on PS5.
All PS4 games on PS5 will run in boost mode. Full clocks. Always.
And the Xbox Series X is doing the same thing.
Introduction
Ok let’s try to make this easy to understand. I think people are confused. But I think this can be clear if you read what is said.
So the key line from Sony’s PS Blog update is this:
“We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions.”
Ok so Sony is expecting PS4 games will always be in boost mode (full clocks.) Again, this line is very important. It says PS4 games are expected to run in boosted frequencies. Not some games, not even most. They just say “backwards compatible titles” meaning ALL PS4 games will use the full CPU and GPU clock speeds on PS5.
This makes sense. Why wouldn’t you just run the full clocks all the time? Games would always run at least good as they did, or they’d run even better. The results would vary, but this certainly implies they will NOT have a non-boost mode. (But maybe they could change their approach later with an update, idk.)
Exhibit A
So read Sony’s full statement from the PS Blog:
“A quick update on backward compatibility – With all of the amazing games in PS4’s catalog, we’ve devoted significant efforts to enable our fans to play their favorites on PS5. We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.”
“We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.”
“In his presentation, Mark Cerny provided a snapshot into the Top 100 most-played PS4 titles, demonstrating how well our backward compatibility efforts are going. We have already tested hundreds of titles and are preparing to test thousands more as we move toward launch.”
https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/
Notice they don’t say all games. This probably implies they know a few games might not be playable. Why? Because boosted clocks could brake a game’s code (as I’ll show when Cerny says this exact thing.) Sony probably just don’t want to over promise. Better to over-deliver then disappoint.
Obviously, they also don’t say “most games at launch.” The timeframe is vague. So... worst case, most games are playable, but not at launch. Best case, they’re playable at launch. Wait and see. Now again, “overwhelming majority” is a bit vague. So take your guess at that actual number. Idk. I doubt even Sony knows exactly.
Exhibit B
This statement lines up with what Cerny said in his talk about backwards compatibility. Mark Cerny on PS5 Backwards Compatibility:
“A better way is to incorporate any differences in the previous console’s logic into the new console’s custom chips. Meaning that even as the technology evolves, the logic and feature set that PS4 and PS4 Pro titles rely on is still available in backwards compatible modes ... ... as any roadmap advancement creates a potential divergence in logic. Running PS4 and PS4 [Pro] titles at boosted frequencies has also added complexity. The boost is truly massive this time around and some game code just can’t handle it. Testing has to be done on a title by title basis.Results are excellent though. We recently took a look at the top 100 PS4 titles, as ranked by playtime, and we’re expecting almost all of them to be playable at launch.”
- Mark Cerny, The Road to PS5 (around 27-28 mins in)
https://blog.us.playstation.com/202...ls-of-playstation-5-hardware-technical-specs/
It seems to me like that graphic with 3 modes that Cerny used, showing “PS5 Native Mode” and “PS4 Pro / PS4 Legacy Modes” are as follows:
- Native mode = PS5 games. Full feature set. 36 CUs, RT, SMT, etc.
- PS4 Pro mode = PS4 Pro patched games. Limited feature set, legacy logic. 36 CUs, no RT, etc.
- PS4 mode = PS4 games. Limited feature set, legacy logic, 18 CUs, no RT, etc.
Exhibit C
This is very, very similar to what Digital Foundry wrote about Xbox Series X and Xbox One backwards compatibility. Digital Foundry on Xbox Series X backwards compatibility:
“It likely comes as no surprise to discover that Series X can technically run the entire Xbox One catalogue, but this time it's done with no emulation layer - it's baked in at the hardware level. Games also benefit from the full CPU and GPU clocks of Series X (Xbox One X effectively delivered 50 per cent of its overall graphics power for back-compat), meaning that the more lacklustre of those performance modes added to many Xbox One X games should hopefully lock to a silky smooth 60fps.”
- Digital Foundry, Inside Xbox Series X: the full specs
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-inside-xbox-series-x-full-specs
So Xbox is also planning on using full clocks to boost Xbox One games. This also NOT software emulation. It’s baked into the custom AMD hardware. But they’re not just putting a second chipset from the Xbox One into the new console (like how PS3 did it.) It’s built into the XSX’s new chip. This is the same approach as what Cerny said PS5 is doing.
This is likely because AMD worked with both Microsoft and Sony to ensure backwards compatibility was built into the hardware on the next-gen consoles. I doubt it’s a coincidence that both companies are mentioning using full clocks for backwards compatibility and that’s its hardware based. (Because AMD makes both of the APUs.)
Conclusion
- Cerny said “almost all” of the 100 titles they tested will be playable at launch and they will be using boosted frequencies.
- Sony said that Cerny’s top 100 example shows how well their plan to run PS4 games at boosted frequencies is going. They did NOT say its just an optional boost mode. It’s the plan, the only plan.
- Sony and Microsoft are using, more or less, the same approach for backwards compatibility. It’s a hardware-based boost mode that will run old games using the full frequencies of the CPU & GPU. (I assume AMD developed this for both companies and incorporated this capability into their custom APUs.)
But does this mean the PS5 COULD use lower clocks? My guess is yes it could, but probably won’t at launch. I think Sony want the PS5, at a minimum, to be an over-clocked PS4. Imagine a PS4 Pro but the GPU is running at 2.23 GHz, CPU at 3.5 GHz, etc.
Sony & Cerny say some games won’t work at full clocks. Those games won’t be playable at launch and might need to be patched by the devs to work on PS5, because the PS5 is going to always use those full clock speeds (boost mode.)
Because if PS4 games could run on PS5 at lower clock speeds, then all games would work. Cerny specifically says some games won’t work because of the boosted frequencies. Sony then said games that fail their tests will require the developers to patch the game if they want it to run on PS5.
For me, this obviously makes it clear. They are not going to use lower clocks to fix the issue, PS5 is always using full CPU/GPU frequencies. This is the same as what Xbox Series X is doing with Xbox One games.
And, of the games they’ve tested, almost all are working fine. Most games will be playable, eventually. Some games will be the same as on PS4. Some will run even better, but a few won’t work.
Jim Ryan has just said "99%" of PS4 games will be playable on PS5.
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