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[Ripclawe]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/fl-python-killing-20120130,0,6326000.story

Burmese pythons have virtually wiped out raccoons, marsh rabbits, opossums and other once-common mammals in the southern region of Everglades National Park, according to a nine-year study that shows the snakes' devastating impact on the park's wildlife.

The loss of so many significant species from part of the park is certain to have significant repercussions throughout the food web, said Michael Dorcas, lead author of the study published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

For the study, scientists gathered information about the park's mammal populations through surveys of park roads from 2003 to 2011. They then compared the results to data from the 1990s, before the arrival of the pythons.

"When we did the calculations, the percentage declines were just astonishing," said Dorcas, a professor of biology at Davidson College in North Carolina. In the area where the snakes have been established the longest, raccoons had declined by 99.3 percent, opossums by 98.9 percent and bobcats by 87.5 percent. Marsh rabbits, cottontail rabbits and foxes had completely disappeared.

No one knows how many Burmese pythons live in South Florida, although estimates commonly run into the tens of thousands. Over the past 12 years or so, 1,825 have been captured. They arrived via the exotic pet industry, with the theories being that they either escaped from wholesalers' buildings destroyed by Hurricane Andrew or were released by owners sick of caring for giant snakes.

Linda Friar, spokeswoman for Everglades National Park, said the park will continue studying and trying to capture the snakes. In additional to park personal, 30 volunteers hold permits to capture them. Last year, 169 Burmese pythons were captured in South Florida, down from 322 the previous year, likely due to a cold snap that killed a lot of them. She said the park is experimenting with eradication techniques but the snakes are "evasive and they're difficult to find."

Although the study looked at the impact on common species, the authors said the results show a high risk to rare species such as the Florida panther. In its native habitat in southern Asia, the python has been known to kill leopards, so it could be well within its ability to take down a Florida panther.

"This severe decline in mammals is of significant concern to the overall health of the Park's large and complex ecosystem," said Everglades National Park superintendent Dan Kimball. "We will continue to enhance our efforts to control and manage the non-native python.''

In assessing the snakes' impact on mammals, the scientists conducted the same surveys in similar but python-free areas north of the park and found normal concentrations of these mammals. In areas where pythons were just beginning to penetrate, they found reduced mammal numbers. The authors ruled out competing causes such as disease or changes in habitat.

The disappearance of raccoons was particularly dramatic, the study says, because they had been considered such a nuisance in the 1980s that the park had established a control program. Although they can still be found in coastal areas, the study says there have been no complaints of nuisance raccoons in the southern part of the park since 2005. Having evolved in an environment free of giant constrictors, raccoons and other mammals lack the instinct to take steps to avoid them, the study said.

The impacts on other species is unclear. The decline in foxes and bobcats, for example, could be the result of either direct killing by Burmese pythons or of the python killing these species' prey.

Authors of the study include scientists at the University of Florida, Virginia Tech University, Auburn University, Davidson College, Denison University, State Museum of Pennsylvania, National Park Service and the U.S. Geological Survey.

The Obama administration two weeks ago announced a ban on imports and interstate commerce in Burmese pythons and three other large constricting snakes. But that long-delayed ban follows years of wide-open imports that allowed released or escaped pythons to establish themselves in South Florida's wilderness.

John Willson, a study co-author, scientist at Virginia Tech University and author of the book Invasive Pythons in the United States, said much more research is needed.

"Studies examining such effects are sorely needed to more fully understand the impacts pythons are having on one of our most unique and valued national parks," he said.

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

This is nothing new. Been a problem as long as I remember. Ban is too late. Good I guess though.

 

[Dresden]

Irresponsible pet owners: lol

the rest of us: D:

 

[kswiston]

They are having similar issues with nile monitor lizards in other parts of Florida. Florida has the perfect habitat for large African/Asian reptiles.

 

[Zzoram]

Fucking exotic pet owners. If you're going to buy a giant snake, at least keep it until it's dead (by your hand or age).

 

[shinobi602]

I own some snakes (4 ball pythons), but they only get around 5 feet max.

I'd never purchase a snake that can get up to 28 feet long. Fuck that. People need to think before they think a baby Burmese is cute for their kid.

And this shit is true. I recently went down to the Everglades from Orlando about 3 weeks ago and saw one of them sunning themselves on ones of the shores. Big sucker too.

 

[ezrarh]

Just another reason to saw off Florida. Unless we can get an animal that kills pythons.

 

[jchap]

Solution: Eat them!

 

[xbhaskarx]

28 feet, wow. Are they a danger to humans?

I remember the photo from a few years ago of a Burmese python that died (burst open) trying to eat an alligator...

Here it is:

 

[DonasaurusRex]

They are having similar issues with nile monitor lizards in other parts of Florida. Florida has the perfect habitat for large African/Asian reptiles.

...who in the world wants a monitor lizard as a pet???

 

[bengraven]

28 feet, wow. Are they a danger to humans?

http://www.anapsid.org/nyburm.html

This is HALF their possible length.

 

[echoshifting]

28 feet, wow. Are they a danger to humans?

Yes, they are incredibly dangerous to humans. I've heard some stories...

I used to keep a lot of exotic pets, including a Burmese Python and a Savannah Monitor. The python was probably the most unwieldy pet I've ever had. They really have no place in the pet trade.

...who in the world wants a monitor lizard as a pet???

Me, right here. Best pet I ever had. I miss him. Unlike burmese pythons, monitors are AWESOME pets if you know what you're doing.

 

[entremet]

Oh Florida.

 

[shinobi602]

...who in the world wants a monitor lizard as a pet???

Nah bro, monitors can be badass, depending on the species.

Might get an Ackie monitor soon myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjch3Yuzl98

 

[TheDrizzlerJ11]

Oh Florida.

Whereas you're from somewhere with no wildlife left? Chances are your states blows compared to Florida when it comes to what we do for wildlife preservation.

 

[Meier]

Terrible story. I knew they had become a menace but didn't realize this side effect.

 

[Slavik81]

http://www.anapsid.org/nyburm.html

This is HALF their possible length.

Another example from your link:

"Perhaps the most significant point to emerge from this Colorado case is the fact that a 24kg python, modest in size by comparison with full grown specimens of this and several other species, was able to kill a healthy 43kg adolescent human. This will come as no surprise to experienced herpetologists, but it might be startling to people who have grown unjustifiably complacent with their now mature pythons that have been raised since hatching." (source)

It's rare, but it occasionally happens.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Nah bro, monitors can be badass, depending on the species.

Might get an Ackie monitor soon myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjch3Yuzl98

well im sure you would be responsible, how big do they get, ive only seen the rather large ones that wreck things like deer. Doesnt seem like a "pet".

 

[kswiston]

Yes, they are incredibly dangerous to humans. I've heard some stories...

I used to keep a lot of exotic pets, including a Burmese Python and a Savannah Monitor. The python was probably the most unwieldy pet I've ever had. They really have no place in the pet trade.

Me, right here. Best pet I ever had. I miss him. Unlike burmese pythons, monitors are AWESOME pets if you know what you're doing.

Savanna monitors are small (for monitors) and relatively docile though. Nile monitors can get 6-7 feet long and are much more aggressive. Almost no one is qualified to care for a nile monitor. You have to be extremely experienced in caring for herps and have a huge enclosure for them.

The larger aggressive monitors are more dangerous than the large pythons if you ask me. I never had either as pets, but I worked for about a year at a small Herp zoo, and the only things you needed more caution around were the alligators/crocodiles and the poisonous snakes.

 

[echoshifting]

Savanna monitors are small (for monitors) and relatively docile though. Nile monitors can get 6-7 feet long and are much more aggressive. Almost no one is qualified to care for a nile monitor. You have to be an extremely experienced in caring for herps and have a huge enclosure for them.

The larger aggressive monitors are more dangerous than the large pythons if you ask me. I never had either as pets, but I worked for about a year at a small Herp zoo, and the only things you needed more caution around were the alligators/crocodiles and the poisonous snakes.

You'll get no argument from me on point 1...but I've heard plenty of near-death stories from other herp-fanatics involving overgrown pythons. I've heard of people getting bitten by their monitors or having aggression issues but never anything life-threatening. My monitor hissed at me occasionally, but he never bit me.

But then I've never been around nile monitors, just my old savannah monitor and a few other small ones. They really are great pets, though not really for newbies.

 

[entremet]

Whereas you're from somewhere with no wildlife left? Chances are your states blows compared to Florida when it comes to what we do for wildlife preservation.

No need to get so defensive. That lament was directed at the irresponsible pet owners, who caused this.

 

[Mattdaddy]

God damn fucking giant snakes. Humans need to declare war on these unholy demons. I would rather take on 1,000 spiders then a single snake. Scare the piss right out of me.

 

[shinobi602]

well im sure you would be responsible, how big do they get, ive only seen the rather large ones that wreck things like deer. Doesnt seem like a "pet".

I've owned quite a bit of reptiles in the past. Ackie monitors only get about 2 and a half long, max. They're extremely intelligent and have their own personalities. Really cool animals, and can be very friendly if handled when they're young.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZZwwzcAnCk&feature=related

 

[akira28]

Tell Floridians how fried python tastes just like chicken/fish. Free hunting\trapping licenses. Problem solved. Or rather, the new problem of high cholesterol, and the threatened population of Florida pythons.

 

[bengraven]

I can almost promise that in the next 20 years, they and more of the dangerous snakes of Florida will start migrating north. I'm in central Florida and have seen the occasional water moccasin and copperhead, but in the next few years they're going to start appearing in urban areas more often.

 

[echoshifting]

well im sure you would be responsible, how big do they get, ive only seen the rather large ones that wreck things like deer. Doesnt seem like a "pet".

Nah, mine topped out at a little under four feet, I think, and he was extremely tame.

The most significant incident that ever occurred with him was when he escaped while he was still a juvenile. He was gone for over a month; we all assumed he was dead (we lived in Colorado and it was the dead of winter, so there was no way he could have survived out of the house for long).

Then my brother returned from boarding school, and found Corben, my lizard, just chillin' on his bedroom floor. He'd never met him before. I wish I had his scream of terror on tape or something. I have never laughed so hard in my life.

I used to just dump five or six mice in his enclosure and watch him go to town. It was a popular spectator event. I could have sold tickets.

I miss him =(

 

[kswiston]

You'll get no argument from me on point 1...but I've heard plenty of near-death stories from other herp-fanatics involving overgrown pythons. I've heard of people getting bitten by their monitors or having aggression issues but never anything life-threatening. My monitor hissed at me occasionally, but he never bit me.

But then I've never been around nile monitors, just my old savannah monitor and a few other small ones. They really are great pets, though not really for newbies.

Niles lack the mass of their Komodo cousins (even though they can be nearly as long) but a big nile monitor can weight 30-40lbs. Big enough to do some damage. I guess a 20 foot Burmese python could do a lot worse, but most of them don't get much larger than 10-12 feet. Especially in captivity where the vast majority die young due to improper care.

Either way, large pythons and large monitors are stupid pets. Unless you really know what you are doing they will either die within the first quarter of their natural lifespan, or outgrow whatever space you have available for them.

I like my Uromastyx. Eats leafy greens, requires little maintenance, and is cool to look at. I have had him since 2002. He is about 14 inches long and probably won't get much bigger.

 

[Konka]

House cats are more of a pest in most of the world.

 

[kswiston]

House cats are more of a pest in most of the world.

North America as well. Feral cats kill hundreds of millions (maybe billions) of birds and small mammals each year. I have two cats myself, but I am in favour of banning outdoor cats, and culling all the feral strays. Will never happen though.

 

[commedieu]

 

[echoshifting]

I like my Uromastyx. Eats leafy greens, requires little maintenance, and is cool to look at. I have had him since 2002. He is about 14 inches long and probably won't get much bigger.

Yeah, I think when I get back into it I'll be going with a smaller lizard, as much as I enjoyed my monitor. Probably a chinese water dragon. They're stunning. Uromastyx is an interesting/cool choice, I don't think I've ever seen one in captivity.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

Why don't they just kill all the pythons in the wild? Are they just really hard to find?

 

[echoshifting]

Why don't they just kill all the pythons in the wild? Are they just really hard to find?

They try...there are just so many of them, and they reproduce rapidly.

 

[kswiston]

Yeah, I think when I get back into it I'll be going with a smaller lizard, as much as I enjoyed my monitor. Probably a chinese water dragon. They're stunning. Uromastyx is an interesting/cool choice, I don't think I've ever seen one in captivity.

When I got mine they were still pretty new. They were extremely rare before the mid 90s. Uros have since caught on with breeders though and I see them at pet shops occasionally. I still can't find a good answer for how long my guy is expected to live though. 10 to possibly 30 years doesn't really narrow things down.


Another animal that was formally a dumb pet choice but is now a major problem:

Why don't they just kill all the pythons in the wild? Are they just really hard to find?

Large predators that co-exist with even larger predators that prey on them are typically hard to exterminate. They tend to be highly adaptable or they would have been out-competed a long time ago. It's the reason why we were never able to exterminate coyotes, despite some pretty extensive attempts in the last 200 years. Pythons are cryptic the majority of the time and are very hard to find/spot. Nile monitors are fast, agile and cryptic as well. Both are also generalists and will eat almost any animal.

 

[CrocMother]

Nah, mine topped out at a little under four feet, I think, and he was extremely tame.

The most significant incident that ever occurred with him was when he escaped while he was still a juvenile. He was gone for over a month; we all assumed he was dead (we lived in Colorado and it was the dead of winter, so there was no way he could have survived out of the house for long).

Then my brother returned from boarding school, and found Corben, my lizard, just chillin' on his bedroom floor. He'd never met him before. I wish I had his scream of terror on tape or something. I have never laughed so hard in my life.

I used to just dump five or six mice in his enclosure and watch him go to town. It was a popular spectator event. I could have sold tickets.

I miss him =(

Where was he? oO

 

[echoshifting]

Where was he? oO

No freakin' clue. We looked everywhere. He was probably in the walls. It was a big house. When we found him he was extremely malnourished and dehydrated; they can survive for a long time without any food and water, but it's possible he found both here and there during that time. It didn't take him more than a couple of days to recover.

When my grandfather came to visit we couldn't get his bed far enough off the ground...it was a pull-out but the mechanism thingy that was supposed to elevate it broke. He was so terrified the monitor would come visit him at night that he pretty much just stood in the corner 'til dawn. We assured him the lizard was dead...but then he turned up alive a couple weeks later. He never slept at our house again.

 

[Derrick01]

I'll never understand the need to keep something like those pythons as pets, it's insane.

I dread the day these fuckers start moving to central and north Florida, and it will happen eventually. I wish we could just torch them.

 

[bengraven]

They try...there are just so many of them, and they reproduce rapidly.

And they just don't have the manpower. Watch those shows (Python Hunters) and Nat Geo/Discovery specials. It's like one chunky dude going there at the end of his shift in the middle of the night, sticking to the roads.

So strange that we as human beings have the ability to destroy almost any species if we set our minds to it, OR by reluctance, yet some we should be eliminating we can't.

I'll never understand the need to keep something like those pythons as pets, it's insane.

I dread the day these fuckers start moving to central and north Florida, and it will happen eventually. I wish we could just torch them.

*bro nux*

When that happens I'll buy a gun. It's already bad enough we live next to a wild, overgrown canal.

 

[echoshifting]

And they just don't have the manpower. Watch those shows (Python Hunters) and Nat Geo/Discovery specials. It's like one chunky dude going there at the end of his shift in the middle of the night, sticking to the roads.

So strange that we as human beings have the ability to destroy almost any species if we set our minds to it, OR by reluctance, yet some we should be eliminating we can't.

These situations always remind me of that classic Simpsons episode with the lizard plague. I wish I could quote it, can't remember enough of it and too lazy to look it up.

 

[TheSeks]

Invasive species is a problem that needs to be regulated. Wither it's animals or plants.

 

[LuCkymoON]

Relevant:
Inside Nature's Giants|Monster Python


We should start eating these.

 

[Lizard with a ladder]

I'll never understand the need to keep something like those pythons as pets, it's insane.

I dread the day these fuckers start moving to central and north Florida, and it will happen eventually. I wish we could just torch them.

They need to stay the hell out of central Florida. It's bad enough I gotta deal with tourist and mickey mouse bullshit but pythons too? FML.

 

[kswiston]

Invasive species is a problem that needs to be regulated. Wither it's animals or plants.

It's almost impossible to do that in the Everglades. I spent 4 months doing research (and living in) Northern Florida swamps, and know first hand how difficult it is to work in swampland habitat. It is even worse in the Everglades. At least my swamp was only seasonally flooded.

By this point there are thousands, maybe 10s of thousands of snakes in the Everglades.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Free market!

of pets

 

[KevinRo]

28 feet, wow. Are they a danger to humans?

I remember the photo from a few years ago of a Burmese python that died (burst open) trying to eat an alligator...

Here it is:

Fucking shit. I'm going to have nightmares.

 

[echoshifting]

Free market!

of pets

There is a huge black market trade for exotic pets. I think people are aware of this with regards to large mammals, but most people have no idea just how many dangerous reptiles illegally make their way into the homes of herp-freaks all over the country.

 

[Rentahamster]

Relevant:
Inside Nature's Giants|Monster Python


We should start eating these.

That's actually a decent way to control invasive species.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/science/earth/10fish.html

Answer for Invasive Species: Put It on a Plate and Eat It

Although it can backfire if the demand for the product is too high.

 

[Coins]

I love my ball pythons! Obama keep your policies off of those!

 

[kswiston]

They need to stay the hell out of central Florida. It's bad enough I gotta deal with tourist and mickey mouse bullshit but pythons too? FML.

The possible future (refers to US Habitat suitability for Burmese Pythons):

That's actually a decent way to control invasive species.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/science/earth/10fish.html

Answer for Invasive Species: Put It on a Plate and Eat It

Although it can backfire if the demand for the product is too high.

You would also be encouraging developing countries to poach these animals from their native habitats because they can get them to the market for cheaper prices than Americans.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

What kind of fucking idiot would keep a giant snake as a pet?

Solution: Eat them!

The meat is probably too tough if the snake is too large, if you can bring back snake skin as a fashion trend, that could work.