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[franconp]

If you want to know "who I think the killer is", I will give you a read list - a mafia staple that apparently everybody forgot about.

I did the most pushback because I knew you were lying. You made several mistakes in your gambit and made a broken game. If the game was as you were saying it would be unwinnable to town. There are several mods and people who look after the games to avoid that. I can't believe that they would allow the game as you said.

I want to lynch you because you are now the big elephant in the room. I think you have your own agenda and I really didn't like how you insisted to be cured. All that insistence in the need to be cured sounds weird. It really looked as if you were looking for a doctor to claim.

I still not feel good about having you around. I still prefer to have you lynched D2 and know what you really were after.

 

[acohrs]

So, as I told Natiko above, this reads list is mostly for me but I also figured I would share it to mention what I have found in my reread and in the case that I do die during the Night Phase I want my opinions down. It also helps me get a full view of the game to make sure I'm not missing anybody or forgetting about people and letting them coast by. Since this game also has a possible Infection mechanic I think it's also doubly important to keep track of how people act Day-to-Day since any significant change could be a sign that they are Scum.

Anyway, reads:



tl;dr

Town Leans:
Natiko
Fran
Faddy
Swamped

Scum Leans:
Burb
Acohrs
Verelios
Fat4All/LP

The Guy We Lynch:
Kark

Nulls/Unsures:
Everyone else

With that done, I'm going to bed. I have work in the morning and I drive home around Day End so I will try to check in every now and then but it depends on how busy work is. I'll be leaving my vote on Natiko as I believe he is a good choice for Director given his actions today and his willingness to work out his thoughts with others. If people are still set on electing me as Director I won't argue and if guidelines/rules for the Director want to be set up I'm not against that either. If anybody has any pressing questions I'll try to get to them tomorrow before Day End.

Good night everyone. n_n

In response to your observation on my interactions with Kark, had 2 posts about him. One where I really question why we would even consider him for director and two where I try and digest the information that he gave us and decide what could possibly be true and what could be false. What I did when scum and provided some kind of read list or info was to have some truth amongst the lies, I assumed Kark would do the same. It's now confirmed that all his info was lies so that throws my earlier observation out the window.

For Kark's info to be useful, it needs to be confirmed 100% what alignment he is. So, either a cop needs to clear and confirm theyre town, which is a bad move as the cop would then have to claim and scum would off him N2, or Kark is lynched and we get his role PM.

 

[franconp]

In response to your observation on my interactions with Kark, had 2 posts about him. One where I really question why we would even consider him for director and two where I try and digest the information that he gave us and decide what could possibly be true and what could be false. What I did when scum and provided some kind of read list or info was to have some truth amongst the lies, I assumed Kark would do the same. It's now confirmed that all his info was lies so that throws my earlier observation out the window.

For Kark's info to be useful, it needs to be confirmed 100% what alignment he is. So, either a cop needs to clear and confirm theyre town, which is a bad move as the cop would then have to claim and scum would off him N2, or Kark is lynched and we get his role PM.

Would we even have a cop in a game like this? If there really is a infection mechanic, something that seems likely with the opening post, the cop wouldn't be useful at all as he can't clean nobody up. He could clean someone and then he (the player investigated) be targeted to be infected making the investigation meaningless.

If there is a infection mechanic in play I don't think we have a cop here.

 

[franconp]

Been thinking about this and there may be someone who can know who the infected are. But he can't clean nobody's name if there is an infection mechanic in play.

Also if scum is able to infect one person per phase, town should have ways to avoid that infection or fight it because if not it would be impossible to win the game. If our only weapon is the lynch we will always behind scum even if we lynch scum every day. Unfortunately CCS already misused one of our weapons.

 

[Dusk Soldier]

acohrs (0)
ccs 105 (475)
acohrs 128 (431)

karkador (0)
ourobolus 255 (317)

ccs (2)
acohrs 431 (473)
ourobolus 583
11037 638

ourobolus (1)
swamped 440 (504)
exmachina64 871

sawneeks (7)
acohrs 473
ccs 475
theexodu5 515
kalor 773
lone_prodigy 775
zippedpinhead 866
melonrabbit 870

natiko (7)
faddy 482
swamped 504
kawl_usc 564
fat4all 700
karkador 723
sawneeks 734
franconp 735

css (0)
11037 634 (638)

burbeting (1)
natiko 763

swamped (1)
burbeting 793

No active vote:
Verelios


Voting tool can be found [HERE]

Time Left:

 

[melonrabbit]

Re-read done. o/

Give me a second to get my thoughts down. In the meantime, questions.



Why is that interesting?

It's always interesting when someone rejects a position of power. Often people are too quick to try nominate themselves (see: CCS). Hesitation in this instance shows thought put into what the position of director can do for town and why nominating someone who best fits is ideal. This also fits with how I typically expect Fran to play as town and gives me an overall good impression.

 

[Karkador]

It's always interesting when someone rejects a position of power. Often people are too quick to try nominate themselves (see: CCS). Hesitation in this instance shows thought put into what the position of director can do for town and why nominating someone who best fits is ideal. This also fits with how I typically expect Fran to play as town and gives me an overall good impression.

They may also realize it's an albatross around their neck and don't want to die.

 

[franconp]

They may also realize it's an albatross around their neck and don't want to die.

I already said that I don't want the burden. I already said that, as I was killed day 1 in Zelda, wanted to play the game longer this time. Also as I was lynched in Overwatch not for looking scummy but for being the switcher and for being a neightbour in animal crossing, I know how frustrating it is being lynched not by scummy behaviour but for simple having a role or rng. It really awful because you can't defend yourself no matter what. I never hide anything about that.

 

[Karkador]

I did the most pushback because I knew you were lying. You made several mistakes in your gambit and made a broken game. If the game was as you were saying it would be unwinnable to town. There are several mods and people who look after the games to avoid that. I can't believe that they would allow the game as you said.

I think most players knew I was lying, simply because the claim didn't make sense. I wasn't too careful about making the claim airtight, that wasn't the point.

The idea is that Town is trying to separate lies from truth while scum is trying to encourage and benefit from the chaos, so long as it keeps them safe. If we look at it that way, we can start to make some assumptions about who might be scum.

I want to lynch you because you are now the big elephant in the room. I think you have your own agenda and I really didn't like how you insisted to be cured. All that insistence in the need to be cured sounds weird. It really looked as if you were looking for a doctor to claim.

The big elephant in the room is actually the Director, as it makes a lot of problems. Lynching me isn't gonna solve much and will just waste a Town player. Expect me to fight against it hard.

My insistence on being cured was just to make the roleclaim make a little sense. I don't know if the mechanic exists in the game.

I also really advise that a doctor not waste a shot on me.

I still not feel good about having you around. I still prefer to have you lynched D2 and know what you really were after.

Like I said, that's gonna be a big waste of time.

In response to your observation on my interactions with Kark, had 2 posts about him. One where I really question why we would even consider him for director and two where I try and digest the information that he gave us and decide what could possibly be true and what could be false. What I did when scum and provided some kind of read list or info was to have some truth amongst the lies, I assumed Kark would do the same. It's now confirmed that all his info was lies so that throws my earlier observation out the window.

They were lies, sure, but I was also openly speculating about the game mechanics. It could be that some of it is true, but I really don't know. I'm glad that people attacked parts of it and shot it down.

For Kark's info to be useful, it needs to be confirmed 100% what alignment he is. So, either a cop needs to clear and confirm theyre town, which is a bad move as the cop would then have to claim and scum would off him N2, or Kark is lynched and we get his role PM.

I have no info on game mechanics, so a flip is not going to confirm or deny anything. Even when I'm flipped as Town, people will probably question my intention / sanity in doing things.

 

[acohrs]

I have no info on game mechanics, so a flip is not going to confirm or deny anything. Even when I'm flipped as Town, people will probably question my intention / sanity in doing things.

Didn't mean what you said on game mechanics Kark, I meant your read list and people's reactions to your gambit.

 

[Karkador]

Didn't mean what you said on game mechanics Kark, I meant your read list and people's reactions to your gambit.

You don't need to flip me to take those for whatever they are, that's not "info" the way a Cop checks a player, it's reads

 

[franconp]

The big elephant in the room is actually the Director, as it makes a lot of problems. Lynching me isn't gonna solve much and will just waste a Town player. Expect me to fight against it hard.

The Director was the Big Elephant in the room until you claimed scum. Now we can't not adress the point. It all seems as a town/neutral gambit to follow am objetive. But it could also be a scum gambit hoping that players will not lynch you based on meta.

Now the question is which is more dangerous right now.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Karkador, in response to your read of me. I know this is an entirely new game. It's just gambits are Always entertaining,

Honest, you are not on my radar for day 2. I think the voting blocks should be something we all look into. Acohrs and CCS for one. Sawneeks and franconp, and Kapoor and lone_prodigy.

These votes bother me backside they are so close to each other, usually votes are in giant blocks (4+). Individual or the mass cattle call at the end of the day. The giant blocks are there because of blockbuster's theory of human coallation (AKA why 30 people can arrive at completely separate times at a store but all come to the front at the exact same time). Humans see people getting something done, or in line and we want to do that.

But The 2X2 votes are weird because they are so close to each other and NOT to any other votes.

Of these I think acohrs and CCS have the least to worry about, their banter back in forth screams that this is their primary means of communication.

Kalor and L_P, but I can't put my finger on it. Was it just wake up time? Neither had posted in a the while and I know that's around when I wake up.

Sawneeks and franconp... also wake up time for the same reasons as kalor and L_P? I don't know it's just weird. And having both sides of twinrova in this thread does make it hard to tell who is who when scrolling quickly in the thread.

 

[franconp]

Also, to drop the Kark talk a little, I'm worried about a couple of people. Kawl has gone missing. Burb is posting really weak, not his usual. I asked exmachina to give me some insights and he said that he would went Dusk answered some questions but never did. Melon town readme, that's new. I always forget that Exodus is playing.

 

[Swamped]

I wasn't, if you look back at my posts I never mentioned anything about lynching Kark on D2. I just despaired that people were actually considering giving him the Director role

Ok, you never mentioned wanting to lynch Kark when he claimed infected. But did you want to? It sounds like you were apathetic on lynching him. So I have to wonder why...I'm just saying, scum generally don't want to give outright opinions, and try to make it so they blend in.

VOTE: Swamped

Ooooo thank you :3 Unfortunately don't think I will win...

If Kark says he's not Infected, then it might be helpful to gauge everyone's initial reactions to his claim, as the real Infected would know he was lying.

The bolded is mine. Are you assuming there is only one infected? If so, why? We still don't know how the Afixometer works. Probably won't have a good idea until tomorrow.

---

I'm leaning scum on LP and acohrs, but I still haven't thoroughly re-read the game. LP because I've played with scum LP before and he's kind of like this (also my point above, although it is pretty tenuous)

I'm hard-reading Fran as town today. I'm fairly sure Kark is town too, and I won't vote for him D2 unless something changes. Still think Natiko is town too.

I'm considering voting for CCS as director as well. The only reason against that I'm seeing is that CCS is 'naive' or something. I've never played with him so I say give him a chance. The other reason against him is that we have no way of verifying if he's telling the truth. And by announcing his role he has essentially rendered it useless...But I do think he's telling the truth.

Does the Director role stack on top of any original role?

VOTE: CCS

 

[Natiko]

I would be wary of giving CCS additional votes. As I said I do believe him but even he will admit his play style is..unorthodox. I'll be busy at work for a good chunk of the day but I'll try and check in intermittently. I'll say it one final time - I am fairly certain I am our best choice. There is the least amount of risk involved in picking me. I will be placing a final vote before day end, but I'm still thinking on who I think the next best pick would be.

 

[Kawl_USC]

Past two days have been abnormally busy at work. Softball/sleep taking up the time after work. Apologies for the non presence, I hate not giving the game my all.

Again, not surprised at Karks admission of gambitness. I personally don't think it's given strong enough data to warrant it being nearly the only topic of discussion, but the fair counter argument is what would day 1 have been otherwise. He put in enough footwork with that reads posts that he has at least walked me back from him being an auto lynch day 2.

I doubt I'll have time to do an in depth reread of the thread before days end but I should be around and able to input thoughts on any shake ups.

Still like natiko for director, good analytical thought, and strong enough presence that he's a town read for me.

Sawneeks is more of a questing and prompting presence which I think is more useful late in the game. We don't have a shortage of analytical folks, but like to make sure those who provide the hooks for conversation remain around.

Read ouro as shit posting off the Kark interactions not something more devious. His frustrations/defensiveness seem more town than scum to me. That's mostly gut though.

Like Frans input over the day, logical and aggressive in a way that feels good. another town read.

CCS/acohrs remain as they are. I believe ccs claim because it's a bad move more so than despite it. Acohrs chummyness with him stays NAI, but frustrating and fluffy.

Thoughts on others to follow.

 

[acohrs]

Ok, you never mentioned wanting to lynch Kark when he claimed infected. But did you want to? It sounds like you were apathetic on lynching him. So I have to wonder why...I'm just saying, scum generally don't want to give outright opinions, and try to make it so they blend in.



Ooooo thank you :3 Unfortunately don't think I will win...



The bolded is mine. Are you assuming there is only one infected? If so, why? We still don't know how the Afixometer works. Probably won't have a good idea until tomorrow.

---

I'm leaning scum on LP and acohrs, but I still haven't thoroughly re-read the game. LP because I've played with scum LP before and he's kind of like this (also my point above, although it is pretty tenuous)

I'm hard-reading Fran as town today. I'm fairly sure Kark is town too, and I won't vote for him D2 unless something changes. Still think Natiko is town too.

I'm considering voting for CCS as director as well. The only reason against that I'm seeing is that CCS is 'naive' or something. I've never played with him so I say give him a chance. The other reason against him is that we have no way of verifying if he's telling the truth. And by announcing his role he has essentially rendered it useless...But I do think he's telling the truth.

Does the Director role stack on top of any original role?

VOTE: CCS

Why are you voting for CCS when he has withdrawn from the race?

 

[Burbeting]

If we assume that the Axometer being 1 means there is only one scum right now (likely, since we can't even lynch today), looking for Scum cliques right now is pointless, since it could be 1 vs 19 situation right now (not counting neutrals).

 

[Faddy]

Reading the lists you guys have my number. Very open play and putting thoughts out in the thread.

However there is one thing I did that I think has paid off and that is starting the Natiko wagon early. I thought he was making a quiet play for director, saying he wanted it but not too hard. Then when he pulled out I knew it was the safest town read a new player could make. Natiko outright ignores my vote for him probably realising that if he comes on too strong it will make his post where he pulled out of the running suspicious even though it was his plan.

So once I jump on as the noob it gives others permission to follow my lead and hide amongst what I laid out as a clear town pick.

natiko (7)
faddy 482
swamped 504
kawl_usc 564
fat4all 700
karkador 723
sawneeks 734
franconp 735

If I had to make a pick of who I think is infected kawl and fat4all are top of my list. Those are the quiet and under the radar moves.

As strange as this sounds but natiko isn't solid town to me either. I walked right into his play but maybe he just wanted to be director or maybe there is more.

 

[Karkador]

It's also possible that "Infected" does not necessarily mean scum players.

 

[Verelios]

Okay, I'm here. With the three currently in the running, CCS, Natiko and Saw, I'm going to have to go with Natiko for director. CCS is...as I said, I wouldn't burn the house down if he became Director but I don't trust his claim and probably won't until he flips. As for Saw its more because she does a good job of offering beneficial view points of every argument, I just think a Director should be more unilateral. Maybe that's not the right word, uh, decisive (and I can't tell her scum tells)

So I'm going with Natiko who's shown thoughtful analysis during the game and is clearly logical. Plus, I'd be more than happy to lynch him if his logic contradicts itself sometime later

Vote: Natiko

 

[Burbeting]

It's also possible that "Infected" does not necessarily mean scum players.

Town win condition argues otherwise.

 

[franconp]

What is your goal Kark? Try to be as precise as possible please.

 

[Karkador]

What is your goal Kark? Try to be as precise as possible please.

"You win when all infected with Araxia have been eliminated.", same as it says in the Day start

 

[franconp]

"You win when all infected with Araxia have been eliminated.", same as it says in the Day start

Ok. It also was stupid of me to ask that when there was an example.

So, why the question?

 

[franconp]

*Why the statement?

I thought it was a question when was writing the post.

 

[Karkador]

*Why the statement?

I thought it was a question when was writing the post.

What statement?

Town win condition argues otherwise.

How so?

 

[Burbeting]

What statement?



How so?

"Goal:

You win when all infected with Araxia have been eliminated."

So if infected aren't scum, then town doesn't need to defeat scum. Town only needs to eliminate everyone infected with Araxia. So it seems pretty clear that infected are scum.

 

[franconp]

What statement?



How so?

This one:

It's also possible that "Infected" does not necessarily mean scum players.

How would the game work in that way? How would scum win if they are not the infected? Could town win without dealing with scum? If town kill the infected scum lose?

 

[Karkador]

Okay, I understand that, and on one hand I speculated that it means we currently have 1 mafia player, and the araxometer counts # of mafia players.

But their goal of 10 infected means 10 players on their mafia team? That doesn't make much sense.

One theory is that Level 1 counts as "1" on the meter, and Level 2 counts as "2", but that does kind of then imply that the Infected team grows exponentially if each Level 2 recruits a Level 1. No idea how they evolve from Lvl1 to 2, but the general idea of the mafia team multiplying every round is crazy and seemingly unwinnable.

Another theory is that there is currently a scum team that is not Infected, but able to spread the infection to others. Or perhaps a mix of "infected" and non-infected scum. The goal is for them to create Infected, not add to their team.

 

[Natiko]

"Goal:

You win when all infected with Araxia have been eliminated."

So if infected aren't scum, then town doesn't need to defeat scum. Town only needs to eliminate everyone infected with Araxia. So it seems pretty clear that infected are scum.

The one thing along this line we don't know is how the infection works. Does a person infected instantly become scum or is it a two step process for becoming scum? If it is two steps it could theoretically be possible to have a situation where there's only someone left in stage 1 who may not technically be scum aligned yet. This is all just semantics though, not sure that this line of discussion helps us much currently.

 

[Karkador]

To be clear, I think we must assume that "Infected" is the thing we need to focus on lynching/killing with fire. That' the goal of the game. My wonder is if there are players who are aligned on the enemy side, with the goal of spreading the disease, that are not themselves carrying disease. Does that make sense?

 

[Natiko]

To be clear, I think we must assume that "Infected" is the thing we need to focus on lynching/killing with fire. That' the goal of the game. My wonder is if there are players who are aligned on the enemy side, with the goal of spreading the disease, that are not themselves carrying disease. Does that make sense?

That does make sense as far as something that could be possible, whether it is the case or not I'm not sure. If the scum team is spreading infection would they also get night kills? That's the part where this becomes harder to believe. If they're thinning our numbers while also infecting people that's rough.

 

[Karkador]

Maybe the araxometer count of "1" is Cabot, and dead count for Infected (if they were ever infected)

 

[Natiko]

Maybe the araxometer count of "1" is Cabot, and dead count for Infected (if they were ever infected)

That doesn't make sense with our goal at all. "You win when all the dead people are dead" lol

 

[franconp]

I already stated a theory about this in my first post: I think all infected level 2 recruits 1 new infected who is level 1 and who make the night kill. At the next night the infected level 1 becomes a infected level 2 and participate in the night chat with all the others level 2 who recruits someone new. That makes sense with the flavour.

It could make sense with the meter levels: Dusk said that at level 5 the infection would be bad and couldn't be contained, if we reach a level 5 that would mean that we mislynched 4 times and there may be 5 NK so town would be in a very in lylo. Level 10 would be a theorical limit, if town don't lynch and the infected don't NK the game is over by night 10 as the infected would be majority.

 

[Karkador]

That doesn't make sense with our goal at all. "You win when all the dead people are dead" lol

They can be living and infected, or dead and infected, is what I'm trying to say.

Notice there's a difference between the scum win condition being "10 on the araxometer", and Town win being "all Infected are eliminated". That would mean we need to find and eliminate all the Infected before it spreads to 10 people. Killing them doesn't reduce the amount infected, it's more like a timer.


On the other hand, this is what the rules say:

"Aroxometer is currently giving a reading of 1. When the reading has returned to 0 it means, the outbreak has been contained. A reading of 5 is very bad, we don't have the means to combat an outbreak of that level. If the Aroxometer reading creeps all they way up to 10 then the quarantine has failed."

So there is healing? I didn't even read that when I made the healing claim, lol. This makes it sound like even a reading of "5" means we're fucked.

 

[Natiko]

So do you think the level 1 is aware they are one and directly choose the NK?

 

[Burbeting]

At any case I don't think we have more than 1 scum at the moment. Otherwise blocking town from lynching in d1 feels unfair.

I guess we will get more insight on the axometer tomorrow.

 

[Natiko]

That was meant for fran, sorry.

As for what you posted Kark I do think curing is a mechanic but I don't think we would be required to cure dead bodies. That would make the game impossible to win if scum picked off this curing role right off the bat.

 

[Verelios]

On the other hand, this is what the rules say:

"Aroxometer is currently giving a reading of 1. When the reading has returned to 0 it means, the outbreak has been contained. A reading of 5 is very bad, we don't have the means to combat an outbreak of that level. If the Aroxometer reading creeps all they way up to 10 then the quarantine has failed."

So there is healing? I didn't even read that when I made the healing claim, lol. This makes it sound like even a reading of "5" means we're fucked.

It's possible, I believe it was brought up early on when mechanics were still being discussed, though personally it seems even without a doctor killing the infected would similarly lower the Aroxometer. If it didn't then there would be no point to having a quantifiable number like 0-10, as during the game a doctor wouldn't be able to heal 8 or 9 people by day 4, and likewise it wouldn't make sense that our lynching infected couldn't bring the Aroxometer down to 0 since that's town win condition.

 

[Karkador]

I think we'll have more to go on about Infected once we get through a night phase. So that's all for now, I guess.


Let's talk about the Director role.

 

[Ourobolus]

I think we'll have more to go on about Infected once we get through a night phase. So that's all for now, I guess.


Let's talk about the Director role.

The Director gets a triple vote.

 

[franconp]

So do you think the level 1 is aware they are one and directly choose the NK?

Don't know. If, as we talked before, there's a cure mechanic for level 1 infected, that would mean that they couldn't know who their partners are so the Nk could be random to avoid friendly fire. But I'm just throwing theories. We wont know until we catch our first infected.

 

[franconp]

The Director gets a triple vote.

Lol.

Also he would replace Cabot so he will gain privileges for the bar in his office.

 

[Karkador]

No, really - everything I said about the Director being a danger is still what I feel. It's an extremely dangerous role, unless Infection doesn't change alignment.

 

[Ourobolus]

Look we just kill the Director on Day Three to assuage any fears.

 

[Karkador]

And what do we do on Day Two?

 

[Faddy]

And what do we do on Day Two?

Lynch you. I thought we were clear on that.