kurisu_1974
Banned
I am, thanks.
Not only in France. It's ironic but also crazy to see how much extremist Islam and Far Right politics agree on.
Quenelle, new nazi salute or just anti-establishment?
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I am, thanks.
Not only in France. It's ironic but also crazy to see how much extremist Islam and Far Right politics agree on.
Did I say that?
I said i hate when obvious anti-Semites label themselves anti-zionists because they feel like it gives them free reign to hate jewish people.
Did you see this post?:
Those are the 'hard' images, I reckon.
I want to know if there's any significance to the pineapple.
This is stupid to all hell, if the establishment is all jewish lobbies and conspiracies someone like Anelka would be at McDonald flipping burgers.
Anyone with half a brain can see the utter stupidity in this kind of statement.
It's not anti establishment, people like Anelka are part of the establishment.
Heck Marine Lepen earned her place as part of it too.
She won't destroy it like some gullible idiots think.
It's about a shitty song who make light of the Shoah.
Also making light of genocide (any my jew hating friends(if you hate jews you're not my friend btw)) is illegal.
That's also why Turkey wasn't happy about the labelling of the Armenian genocide.
The Nazi salute was the Roman salute for a long time, and the swastika was all over the place for an even longer time, so it's not like they can't make something out of anything.
ComputerMKII
Banned
It's a reference to the song Shoananas (ananas is French for pineapple), which origin I explained in my previous post. Just as the quenelle gesture, so has the pineapple become a rallying symbol for fans of Dieudonné.
shoananas = Hebrew word for holocaust + pineapple.
Chuckie
Member
No, but it is very often used as a cover for anti-semitism.
Just check that blog with pictures of doing the salutes. Making that salute in front of a fucking deathcamp is anti-semitic, not anti-zionist
n00bsauce87
Member
His/Her attempt at sarcasm. Non-Americans wouldn't get it so it's not you're fault. I found it funny enough to raise an eyebrow
Nah it's a fail joke
Alx
Member
Woah, is that really the reason ? They were saying in the news this morning that it was a reference of one of Dieudonné's sketches, but I didn't think it would be so bad...
Jag
Member
Those pictures are just so sad. Amazing that people forget the recent history of the region and fuel the fires that started the slaughter. My guess is these people would like to finish what Hitler started.
I guess history is really doomed to repeat itself. I just didn't think it would happen so quickly.
It's a song he made in one of his sketches, kinda ripping off on Annie Cordy's classic masterpiece.
SketchTheArtist
Member
Love Dieudonné, or Dieudo as we call him.
Great stand-up, super funny. However, he's EXTREMELY political and I don't always share his opinions, but he's the farthest thing from a nazi/racist. He's said multiple times he hates the idea of barriers and walls between nations.
Very controversial in France. Friends from Paris keep telling me the media are always on his case.
It's quite sad actually. But yeah, a Quenelle is a ''Up yours'' if you will. Some people are using it for hate reasons but that's out of his control. The French media will try to convince you of the opposite.
Great stand-up, super funny. However, he's EXTREMELY political and I don't always share his opinions, but he's the farthest thing from a nazi/racist. He's said multiple times he hates the idea of barriers and walls between nations.
Very controversial in France. Friends from Paris keep telling me the media are always on his case.
It's quite sad actually. But yeah, a Quenelle is a ''Up yours'' if you will. Some people are using it for hate reasons but that's out of his control. The French media will try to convince you of the opposite.
mourad louali
Member
Once again, you are trying to put this on islam and now the far right, but does the people in my previous post look like extremists?
Well they both agree on the "hate jews" part. I guess that's what he's saying.
The first time it appeared on film was by an ex nazi doctor repressing a nazi salute in film when Dieudonné was in diapers or something.
His recuperation of the movement is not that far from its original use...
Many are only anti-establishment and rebels without a cause. They are attracted by Dieudonne's irreverence and in turn spoon-fed his hate of jews and gays.
From reading this thread and the links in it, it doesn't seem to be a Nazi salute, but the people doing it essentially think it is. It's a derogatory salute and intended to convey disrespect to the Jewish people, which the Nazi salute has been associated with (along with racism and fascism). Although I do distinctly remember seeing some Nazi soldiers marching with their guns and they'd make the type of salute where they brought their non gun hand straight across to the opposite shoulder, and it looks very similar to this.
ComputerMKII
Banned
By the way, while I'm explaining questionable memes, I might as well explain this one, also made popular by Dieudonné. You may be wondering what this gesture means:
Pointing your finger upward (with or without a smacking sound as an imitation of a Jewish rabbi), along with the catchphrase 'au-dessus, c'est le soleil' ('Up above it's the sun') is an attack on Jewish institutions or important (real or supposed) Jewish figures, as if there was nothing higher, and criticizing them is like criticizing the most powerful, un-criticizable beings on Earth - so much that, above them, there's nothing but the sun.
Some fans can be seen wearing t-shirts marked with the catchphrase. This, the pineapple and the quenelle are the three most viral signs popularized by Dieudonné.
Pointing your finger upward (with or without a smacking sound as an imitation of a Jewish rabbi), along with the catchphrase 'au-dessus, c'est le soleil' ('Up above it's the sun') is an attack on Jewish institutions or important (real or supposed) Jewish figures, as if there was nothing higher, and criticizing them is like criticizing the most powerful, un-criticizable beings on Earth - so much that, above them, there's nothing but the sun.
Some fans can be seen wearing t-shirts marked with the catchphrase. This, the pineapple and the quenelle are the three most viral signs popularized by Dieudonné.
Video that sums it up pretty well :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpbI-Z2anlw
The growing influence on the zionist lobby on the current government makes me want to vomit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpbI-Z2anlw
The growing influence on the zionist lobby on the current government makes me want to vomit.
SketchTheArtist
Member
So you asked him if he saw the footage and re-purposed it or are you just pulling that out of your ass?
kurisu_1974
Banned
They are hatemongers if they at least understand the gesture they are performing. I don't know these people well enough otherwise, sorry. I guess some are extremist, and some are blind followers?
Right. He is not encouraging it at all in his shows. Next you'll tell us Dieudonne didn't mean all this and is just a victim of his fans.
France has a real problem with anti-semitism and homophobia both from the far right and muslims. Everyone knows what the quenelle really means. I am not willing to pass this off as stupid people doing a meaningless thing, I think the salute and Dieudonné's increase in popularity is very symptomatic of the ills of French society.
Indrid Cold1
Member
If it's simply an anti-system gesture why are there baddasses doing it at Auszwitch?
John Dunbar
correct about everything
reading that list, most of those fines other than the tax evasion seem absolutely ridiculous. ten grand for insulting an organization over censorship? talk about proving a point.
The film is actually rather well known and predate by quite some years Dieudonné's first spectacle.
It's not a stretch by any means.
Also considering the meaning he himself gave it, it's rather easy to connect the dots.
A Quenelle is absolutely not a ''Up yours'' for anyone with half brain, in the same way that a nazi salute is not a very ineffective way of shielding yourself from the sun first.
Also this.
Don't try to make sense of morons doing stupid things.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Can someone from France please tell me what's going on?
Is quenelle really a hype, or is the media making it bigger than it is? I read that it's mostly used by immigrants as a anti Jewish thing.
If it truly is a new way of doing a nazi salute, the thing I don't understand is, if the Nazis had had their way wouldn't everyone in that picture be dead?
It's unpleasant, but it's easy to spot these people. Look at the disgusting images posted in this very thread of people doing this gesture at Holocaust memorials and the like
It still doesn't make this gesture anti-semitic, the people who use it muslims, the comedian who invented it muslim or anti-zionism bad
Despite what some in this thread would have you believe
mourad louali
Member
or maybe the gesture just means I am gonna stick it in your anus, just like pants posted 4 posts above yours ?
dripdripsplash
Member
SuperÑ;96591953 said:
They have a government hell-bent on ethnic cleansing, a racist apartheid system and a take-over of an whole peoples land.
They've also been the scapegoat for everything in past history. I don't know if true but I've
read somewhere that the blame for The Black Death was laid on them, lol.
But yeah looking at some of the links this Quenelle thing looks to be absolutely anti-semitic IMO. Seems like an excuse by people to do a heil but not really a heil.
EDIT: Those fines are just ridicilous though. Freedom of speech etc. etc ?
Yeah, the ills of french society are anti semitism related (as it is qualified by ultra zionists such as Bernard Henry Lévy and consorts), not unemployment, insecurity, wages...
Does not look like the Nazi salute at all
Are they doing it here, or this picture taken out of context and its some hip hop move? Surely Obama, Jigga and Bey are smart enough to know what it is? Maybe its the Dirt of Your Shoulder move?
I first found out about this after Anelka got in all sorts of trouble for doing it at a game
Are they doing it here, or this picture taken out of context and its some hip hop move? Surely Obama, Jigga and Bey are smart enough to know what it is? Maybe its the Dirt of Your Shoulder move?
I first found out about this after Anelka got in all sorts of trouble for doing it at a game
It also looks like he's drawing half a swastika in the air. But maybe that's just me.
Anyway, the quenelle has become an anti-semite gesture, no matter how they want to mask, repurpose or hide it. It should die and so should everyone using it. Including Anelka.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Does not look like the Nazi salute at all
Are they doing it here, or this picture taken out of context and its some hip hop move? Surely Obama, Jigga and Bey are smart enough to know what it is?
I first found out about this after Anelka got in all sorts of trouble for doing it at a game
I believe they are doing the "wipe dirt/haters off your shoulder" move.
You're right, pictures of it don't make it anti-semitic. The fact that it was invented to be anti-semitic makes it anti-semitic and the fact that racism is bad makes it bad.
Hmmm... Interesting development.
kurisu_1974
Banned
So you say they never heard of Dieudonné and his views, or the origin of the gesture, and this is what you think they mean by it? Whose anus are they referencing exactly? Not mine I hope?
When you say "they", you mean ALL the Jews, right? Or do you mean the Israeli government?
Society can have more than one problem at once, there isn't a rota.
SketchTheArtist
Member
Sure, forget actual facts, let's just go with a gut feeling. Let's connect dots people!
It does. Went to see him twice live and watched 2-3 of his shows on DVD. He adds sometimes a little ''......really deep. Right to the elbow.'' which is pretty much your assumption that it means ''I'm sticking it in.''
Nazis didn't have muslims on there hitlist in the 40s. They were used to hunt down jews. I read about a recommendation from a Nazi general how muslims were good at finding and executing jews and how the Third Reich should exploit that feature. Enlisting muslims would also make it easier to eliminate them from the Reich after "the jew-problem was solved".
Similarly, a lot of Maroccan and Tunisian muslims went abroad and fought for the freedom of their colonizer, France. So it kind of evens out in that respect.
racist and bigots aren't necessary the most intelligent or logical people
That is exactly why this excuse is all kinds of BS, it doesn't make any sense if that's what they mean by it.
The facts are
- he didn't invent that move.
- he, and others, use it for anti semitism purposes.
The fact that there's a coincidence between D's use and how it first appeared on film is either a coincidence or a correlation.
That doesn't change that the movement is by no way anti establishment....unless you're one of the moron who believe in the "Zionists rule the world" conspiracy theory.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Just to make things clear (I don't know if you actually forgot the title or just decided not to mention it), the film you're referring to is Stanley Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove:
It started as a benign gesture really. If I asked you to make a gesture to mean "sneakingly stick it up someone's arse", you'd probably do something similar: hand low, arm straight and a small hit to the shoulder to give momentum to the projectile. And that's exactly how it started, in one of his first solo shows. He was mocking someone and did the gesture to mean "up yours". Seeing the gesture was becoming really popular he just embraced it, and here we are.
I keep hearing people saying we should stop talking about him, giving him exposure. I disagree with that. He already has all the exposure he wants on the internet, all his shows are a success, he didn't need the traditional media to be heard. If anything we spent the last ten years not giving him exposure, he grew in popularity regardless. French needed a wake-up call on Dieudonne so they can call him on his bullshit.
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