Quenelle, new nazi salute or just anti-establishment?
- Thread starter Roi
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1 - It isn't done by idiots but by people who want to "defy' the current system. It has little to do with intelligence and everything to do with disenfranchisment
[French]La Quenelle n'a rien d'un geste idiot et franchement à voir la chasse aux sorcières visant Dieudo, c'est d'un ridicule (pire encore lorsque cela vise ses spectateurs ou les gens qui font une Quenelle). Une Quenelle c'est simplement "On vous l'a mise profond (on vous entube)" . Une sorte de doigt d'honneur moderne.[/french]
No. La Quenelle has nothing to do with the Nazi salute, it's a way of giving someone (anyone) the middle finger.
Since Dieudonné is very vocally against Zionism/Israel's policies and its supporters, he has been labeled as antisemitic (to no one's surprise since it's been the defacto accusation for anyone who doesn't worship Israel and dares criticize it) and prety much shunned by french media
Which hasn't prevented him from having a very successfull career as a humorist and beeing one of the most intelligent and funny french entertainer (with a political twist, in line with what Desproges or Coluche would have done) of the past decade. He's brilliant and they hate him for that.
lazorexplosion
Member
People are still defending this shit after those pictures, really?
Maybe it's just me but even if I genuinely believed it was an innocuous anti-establishment gesture, loved it and used it like sliced bread somewhere around the time fucksticks started using it to disrespect fucking holocaust memorials and pictures of Anne Frank it would be time to flush it down the metaphorical toilet and pretend I never even knew it existed. I wouldn't be caught dead defending it after that.
But then I don't want to be associated with vile human beings.
Maybe it's just me but even if I genuinely believed it was an innocuous anti-establishment gesture, loved it and used it like sliced bread somewhere around the time fucksticks started using it to disrespect fucking holocaust memorials and pictures of Anne Frank it would be time to flush it down the metaphorical toilet and pretend I never even knew it existed. I wouldn't be caught dead defending it after that.
But then I don't want to be associated with vile human beings.
Oh please I'm not saying some people don't play the antisemite card, but you can criticize Israel without doing the shit he's doing, it's not like he's even helping Palestinians, they're getting fucked the same, he's just profiteering off antisemites and propping it up in France at the same time.
He's hanging out with far right politicians and intellectuals, deny the holocaust, defended Ahmadinejad and Assad, the list of shit he does is really beyond "anti-establishement" and anti-zionism.
And yes some people who support him are disenfranchised, that doesn't mean they can't be stupid or manipulated. Disenfranchised people are easily swayed by extremist rhetoric. Blaming the Zionist system for our problems is as dumb as blaming immigration or whatever.
Northern Lights
Banned
Looks like foreign gang signs.
ComputerMKII
Banned
As a matter of fact, Alain Soral has stopped endorsing the quenelle because of the accusations of being a nazi salute, and asked people to revert to the good old, non-ambiguous bras d'honneur :
That said, the quenelle might have already reached critical mass so it's too late to try and replace it.
That said, the quenelle might have already reached critical mass so it's too late to try and replace it.
Always-honest
Banned
Lol, that one head in the middle.
Computer's post^^^^^^^^: this kind of bullshit is why I don't "feel" "French" anymore, so many horrible persons (Soral, Le Pen, Copé, Valls etc...) associate their horrible ideologies/policies to the flag, the republic etc... It doesn't mean shit, it's all smoke and mirrors to divide people(under the pretense of uniting them, this is amazing how it works), no offense to those who consider otherwise. I don't "believe in France" and its values (saw that political slogan yesterday, lmao nationalism really is a religion)
It's early so I might be rambling a bit but hey.
VVVVVVVV: Oh I'm not singling out France or anything, I think it's a problem inherent to the concept of countries and nations. It's just that on paper France could be beyond that but it's not.
It's early so I might be rambling a bit but hey.
VVVVVVVV: Oh I'm not singling out France or anything, I think it's a problem inherent to the concept of countries and nations. It's just that on paper France could be beyond that but it's not.
ComputerMKII
Banned
I'm neither a nationalist nor a patriot, but what country doesn't have its extremists?
Me_Marcadet
Member
He never did that. He like to provoke the people who attack him by inviting and defending their "ennemies" but he never denied the holocaust. He gave Faurisson the prize of the person who nobodies want to be with and insolence. In Mahmoud, he mocks Faurisson and his thesis.
Hanging with far right politicians or defending Ahmadinejad is not a crime and don't mean you are the same.
Lol he's obviously hanging out with them cause they're all improv theater ethusiasts.
The nazi salute isn't banned. You'll get in trouble for doing it, obviously, but it's not illegal.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
You might wanna tag those pictures as NSFW - plenty of boobs and sex toys in them.
Oh, I can just go out and do it in front of everyone then. Cool
Apparently in France today, yes, Just don't dare to do the quenelle. that all.
Right. Just try both in my neighborhood and we'll see which one works out better.
Not sure what point you're trying to make with these pics. The femen use provocation during their "happenings" or whatever you call them, news at 11. And sometimes they get their asses kicked because of it. That has nothing to do with what I was saying, which was basically that people might not like seeing you making a nazi salute in front of them.
EDIT :
LOL
it's Manuel Valls. You seem informed enough.
he disavowed them after what they did in a chuch btw
He disavowed? that all? they did a nazi salute! he think the quenelle of Dieudonne "kind of" a nazi salute, and he go after him with the full goverment power and ban his show minority report style, did he or anybody in the goverment who jump on Dieudonne for the quenelle say anything about de femen nazi salute?
That was my point, the double standard that all.
I must have missed something, when did he start beeing a negationist? And no, giving an "Infréquentable" award has nothing to do with beeing a negationist. As a matter of fact, while he hangs out with Soral, it's not for the right wing ideologies (which is very clear when you listen, even casualy, to what he says) but because they share a common vision of the middle man (classe ouvrière) beeing shat on by the elites, which is prety much true in France.
Assad's and Ahmedinejad's "Quenelles d'or" were both logical, they stuck it up to the west, despite bombings, economical pressure, warmongering and, in the case of Syria, wrecking chaos in the country (Yes, Assad isn't an "enfant de coeur" but he's not the monster described either).
Also he's playing "la surenchère" with regards to the "antisemitism" card, especially since that jewish settler sketch were every single jewish association in France complained about and started labelling him as an antisemit. French jeweish association do absolutely NOTHING in France to distance themselves with Israel (and Israel's policies) and do everything they can to nirture the amalgam that antizionism = antisemitism.
The nazi salute was used as a criticism - "sex slavery is fascism". You can understand that it isn't an endorsement of the third reich policies. For me at least, that's far less ambiguous than Dieudonné's shows.
It's a huge problem: How do you take back French as an identity when you have so many public figures who have corrupted it by association? They have played on impressionable people's base prejudices and fears creating a common enemy and successfully rallied them to their shitty causes, dividing the country. There's a really nasty under-current in French society that is becoming more and more obvious.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Manif_pour_tous_Paris_2013-01-13_n12.jpg
Images like this make me want to vomit.
Alain Soral is not a jew hater negationist?
Guys, I know some of you like Dieudonné but no need to make shit up either.
I'm talking about this.
Seriously if you want to read a dirtbag antisemit, at least pick people who have actual talent like Celine or something.
Guys, I know some of you like Dieudonné but no need to make shit up either.
I'm talking about this.
Seriously if you want to read a dirtbag antisemit, at least pick people who have actual talent like Celine or something.
Fixed.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
It is completely disrespectful and there are a million other ways to bring light to other disasters/atrocities without having to put down any group of people.
Arf, yeah keep telling yourself that.
Btw denying the existence of ANY genocide is illegal in France, not just the Holocaust.
Desecrating tombs is also an offense even if they're not jewish or muslim tombs.
The fun part when you actually see the people talking, they're as much part of the elite as the rest of the elite and shit on the worker class even more than the others....
Dude Abides
Banned
But that's standard right-wing populism.
I agree it's not very clever and respectful but it's not anti-semitic.
No one is denying any genocide.
Tell that to Dieudonné's good friend Alain Soral.
The Jewish population in France is not getting any favour treatment....except by shitheads like the idiots following Dieudonné.
And the swastika is not nazi in nature either, yet if you draw them on a wall no one will be fooled either....especially on a synagogue.
BaronLundi
Member
I'm usually not fond of Nicolas Bedos at all but I thought he did pretty good this time. Well at the end mostly.
And Elie Semoun (ex. stage partner/friend of Dieudonné for 10+ and know part of the French Jewry) made a quite touching (if not very funny) skit about the whole thing.
Sorry, it's all in French.
How is the time and energy spent to insult and mock this particular disaster and its victims helping to bring awareness to other disasters exactly?
If I piss on the tomb of some Armenians will you infer from my actions that we should talk more about the Rwanda genocide?
And Elie Semoun (ex. stage partner/friend of Dieudonné for 10+ and know part of the French Jewry) made a quite touching (if not very funny) skit about the whole thing.
Sorry, it's all in French.
How is the time and energy spent to insult and mock this particular disaster and its victims helping to bring awareness to other disasters exactly?
If I piss on the tomb of some Armenians will you infer from my actions that we should talk more about the Rwanda genocide?
Yes. If you want to bring attention to other atrocities, the best way to do it is with a disrespectful (at best) gesture in front of a Holocaust memorial.
For example, why isn't there a memorial to all the logic that's been brutally tortured in order to reach this conclusion?
10/10
You're really great at conversation!
People ask you a question you reply with a 1h+ long documentary on youtube.
I'd love to see you on a debate on TV in elections.
"What's your thoughts on raising VAT?"
"LOL watch this 1 hour documentary"
Then again you're the guy saying that stuffs like pissing on the tombs of WW2 veterans will raise awareness of the victims of the Crimean war.
So you are trying to support the view of a jewish problem existing in France.
What is your solution to the jewish problem, Fabrik?
So far you support insulting bigoted gestures being done in memorials about the murder of an enormous number of Jews by a bigoted piece of shit. That does not seem to achieve much, do you have any final solution in mind?
This isn't the first time that's happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relations_between_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Arab_world
There was also opposition and an organized effort to save jews from the camps among muslims
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_rescue_efforts_during_the_Holocaust
To be precise, out of 10000 photos of people doing the quenelle move on Dieudonné's website, "only" about 75 are ambiguous.
http://www.agoravox.fr/tribune-libre/article/affaire-dieudonne-comment-valls-146039
It's a complex subject and this documentary explains it way better than I ever could on this forum. BTW, this documentary is not conspiracy bullshit and features reliable sources and persons (Noam Chomsky and so on)
No I agreed it's stupid, I'm just saying it's not anti-semitic that's all.
Your source starts really well :
It's like the textbook of starting your article before you go and spew BS.
It's like during the "mariage pour tous" where the homophobes critics were hiding behind the common "they're just pushing the law as smoke and mirrors to hide the real ills of France"
All subjects are complex if you look into it.
If you can't explain it then you didn't understand it at all.
This is your post :
Show where you're saying it's stupid or something.
Yeah I'll take the word of the republican party that the democratic party is full of hacks....
How many photos of Nazis engaging in behavior you popularized is it considered appropriate to feature on your website? What's the Nazi error rate? (In France. I guess it might vary by country.)
You can't be serious
Holy Order Sol
Member
http://joelecorbeau.com/2014/01/13/philippe-tesson-appelle-publiquement-au-meurtre-de-dieudonne/
Holy shit some people are going nuts. XD
Holy shit some people are going nuts. XD
FonkyByNature
Member
Well if you know what's happening in all of this. You'd know he was denied freedom of speech. That's why he's making all of this, to show people how controlled by rich people, mostly jewish, showbizz is. I would be fucking mad too if i was denied to do my show because some mad crazies want to control my freedom because they don't agree with my opinions. The fact is, Dieudonné is mostly right about the colonization of Israel. He just had the balls to make jokes about it and to anyone surprise, people don't like it.
And, for your personnal culture, Dieudonné is not arab.
Doesn't change the fact that making the gesture (whether it's an upyours or not) in front of a synagogue or the shoah memorial antisemit.
In the same way if you're doing monkey noise when a black footballer have the ball no one is fooled and will claim that it's anything but racism.
If you're doing that to the justice minister it's actually even worse as you're insulting someone because of its race (and thus a racist action) and disrespecting the authority of the state which is, again, not allowable and ground for charges.
In the same way that people using the swastika before 1933 stopped using it because of the connotation it bore after, it's too late and is connoted as an antisemit act now.
Heck look up the link provided by Holy Order Sol, it's basically an antisemit site poorly grimed as an antizionist site.
I believe no one is fooled by thinking joelcorbeau.com is anything but an antisemit site.
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