Quenelle, new nazi salute or just anti-establishment?
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BaronLundi
Member
And football stars !
The establishment is always "others". Dumbasses.
Captain Tuttle
Member
I think it looks more idiotic in context
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Sigh, it sucks that people in this day and age hates Jews.
John Dunbar
correct about everything
one of the fines on the list posted was for calling the International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism censoring mobsters (or something to that effect). an insult to an organization resulting in a fine is absurd, no matter what was said.
Cool racism, that is sure to makes thing better. (Also "leftist" seems like a great exaggeration)
Screaming racism isn't a rebuttal, what's factually wrong about my post? France's Socialist Party is very left-leaning, even in Europe.
BaronLundi
Member
No, that's no it. It wasn't an insult to an organization. He was condemned on the organization in question's request who acted on behalf of those insulted.
casablanca
Member
Wow some people here just want to bring arabs/muslims into this.
Dieudonne audience is very wide , and people defending him now are those defending freedom of speech (Valls fault).
muddream -> please give proofs or stop spreading bullshit.
Dieudonne audience is very wide , and people defending him now are those defending freedom of speech (Valls fault).
muddream -> please give proofs or stop spreading bullshit.
gutter_trash
Banned
ah open racists use the Freedom of Speech argument to express openly their hate.
The French Go-Gauche (lefty-left) are using the same arguments as the American Far-Right
The French Go-Gauche (lefty-left) are using the same arguments as the American Far-Right
ComputerMKII
Banned
Their argument is that, while the police, military and firefighters are necessary institutions, they only follow orders, which are issued by politicians, e.g. the government. However, according to them, the government is corrupt, infiltrated by Zionists or other enemies of France. That's why they send pictures of themselves performing quenelles (as shown above) or messages of support to Egalité & Réconciliation under the guise of anonymity (since they may not publicly criticize their superiors), such as this:
By 'establishment', I think they refer to the elite, i.e. those who have the power to make political decisions or influence public opinion (intellectuals, teachers, the media), not average civil servants. They see themselves as resisting from the inside or something. Of course, everyone has his own definition of the establishment and you may or may not agree.
They're not very left-leaning, they're a center right party with some socially progressive measures (like same sex marriage, but not marijuana legalization etc...), like most mainstream "left" wing parties in the West.
I like how you seem to think Europe is very left wing when it's not the case at all. Europe has been headed by neoliberal right wingers for decades now.
Don't talk about what you don't know. Soral, Dieudonné and such aren't racists. Soral has an association that promotes reconciliation under's France banners of french of all races. Stop following the mass media conclusions, especially if it comes to affairs that don't even take place in your country. Soral videos and Dieudonné shows exist with english subtitles. Everyone should make his own opinion. It's a shame Soral's writings haven't been translated in english. They do exist in Russian though. I don't agree with all his theories but I made my own opinion and I think he's good when it comes to pamphlets. He's still obsessed with many subjectfs and you can criticize his intellectual integrity on many topics but its still worth a reading. He's also a good entrance to other intellectuals such as Michéa, Clouscard, even Pasolini. I wouldn't have interested myself in their works if I hadn't read Soral. Such intellectuals defined my opinions on economical, social, political matters.
Ace Harding
Member
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Dieudonné isn't muslim, he is an orthodox christian. But I like the way you are trying to put the gesture on islam and immigrants.
And no it's not just done by immigrants like said in OP, how about some white people :
or militaries :
or police officers :
or fire fighters :
Yeah I'm not sure they all look like young muslim men.
The fact that we have been talking about this for the last two weeks, just shows how our country is fucking lost
So all those military men, police officers and firefighters are anti-establishment?
casablanca
Member
Now there's no official Dieudonné census, but let's quit kidding ourselves.
There is many pictures on this page that prove you wrong.
Stop categorising french people please.
Hitting millionaires with a 75% tax and letting people retire with full benefits at age 60 is far to the left of most other European left-leaning parties. Europe is generally retarded when it comes to marijuana legislation, hardly a good argument either way.
The Democrats and Republicans are more conservative than their European counterparts not counting outright racist outliers like Eastern European/Italian conservatives.
The edgy teenagers? I was talking about the people that pay to see this racist live.
casablanca
Member
What are your sources ???
3 black people on a single photo ? Are you judging an entire audience on people skin color or look ?
What's wrong with you ??
It's the only photo on this page that doesn't feature blurry heads or a disproportionate amount of banlieue-dwellers...turns out they're teenagers and not at his show.
The 2nd link is irrelevant, the 1st features a lot of arab-looking people if you ask me. Do you want me to measure their skulls or what the hell? A quick google image search should tell everyone with half a braincell that a disproportionate amount of poor arabs/blacks attend this guy's racist performances.
casablanca
Member
dripdripsplash
Member
ComputerMKII
Banned
tl;dr: Famous mixed-raced, anti-racist humorist becomes conspiracy theorist, self-identified anti-Zionist and gains a reputation as an antisemite. Invents gesture/meme meaning 'I'm sticking it this far up your arse'. Gesture becomes viral, then gets called reverse nazi salute (by Jewish associations, politicians and the media) because of its frequent, questionable use by its own creator and his fans to ridicule the Jewish community (along with the political 'establishment'/the 'system' and other, less controversial targets).
Interior Minister pays him too much attention and dedicates all his time and power trying to ban him from performing his shows because of alleged trouble to public order and attacks on human dignity. Succeeds (not without summoning the highest administrative court in France), proves humorist right and makes him a martyr of freedom of speech.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quenelle_(gesture)
RustyNails
Member
muddream finally gets banned eh? It was a matter of time. Surprised to see him show his true colors in this thread though.
gutter_trash
Banned
LOL don't forget the millionaire soccer players who are well endowed into the system of sponsorship
Oh and I hadn't seen these before
I think it's been already established that this is just the Dirt Off Your Shoulder sign.
But I'll give you this one :
Because this gesture was totally consistent with this character (within the context of the TV show).
At least good things came out of this
ComputerMKII
Banned
Speaking of the BBC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8gdbXHsVks&t=4m47s
Alain Soral (anti-zionist writer/activist and close friend/supporter of Dieudonné) interviewed by Jeremy Paxman.
cripterion
Member
Once again I know about the dirt off your shoulder, I'm just saying that at this point anything can be seen as such which shows it is wrong to say the gesture is offensive towards jewish people. It's fucking ridiculous. 2 kids banned from school and taken to the police station for doing it, some store that was pressured to close (I don't think it did but still) just because the manequins at the front were in the same posture as the quenelle.
If you sit here and tell me this is France number one problem, well fuck me. Meanwhile TVA increases, je dirais plutôt que c'est François qui nous la glisse la quenelle.
So I watched this video with English subs. Where are the jokes? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IyZs9kGwAA
A known anti-semite invents a gesture that is more or less an inverted Nazi salute, and we're supposed to think it's not anti-semitic? lolololol are you for real man?
Nazi?
Jedi.
mmm... Bush? Condoleezza? powell? need to say more?
Known anti-semite for who? I bet you didn't even Know his existence 5 Days ago, but apparently you already know everything about him. I know him for more than 20 years already, but whatever...
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
There is also this:
and this:
and more. He seems to really not like jewish people...
and this:
and more. He seems to really not like jewish people...
ComputerMKII
Banned
Dieudonné's response to his ban, now with English subs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_VoTPZsXtI
This is how everything start...
Im not French or live there but muslims and the far right having something in common(they fight against)? The fuck?
I H8 Memes
Member
It's an infomercial? What a scam artist. What kind of suckers are falling for this guys hucksterism?
And what do the numbers on some peoples shirt sleeves mean?
ComputerMKII
Banned
It says how far (in centimeters or whatever) you're sticking your arm up someone's butt.
I H8 Memes
Member
Well in that case I do hope this gesture is anti-semetic. And they really should admit it is. Otherwise this is the most juvenile "anti-establishment" expression I've ever seen. Anyone doing it or associating with it should be really embarrassed.
Your display of anti-establishment is how far you want to put your hand in someones ass? I notice they all mark it off right at the top. Want to get all the way up in there until your chin hits the taint huh?
Come on man. This is something a 12 year old would come up with and think it's somehow witty.
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