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Rape charge dropped against USC student after evidence of consent presented

Reeks

Member
So is the next step the suing of this girl for the falsification of rape?

The problem with this is that we don't know what happened when they did get back to the dorm. Not saying this is what happened but I've known people who intended on having consensual sex and something changes, like the other person becomes overly physically aggressive and when they try to stop them, the other person keeps going. Or what if the woman passes out as soon as she lays down?
 
I keep getting extremely frustrated at this thread. Yes, the murky he-said/she-said is difficult to navigate, legally and morally, but god damn, if someone says no during a (previously) consensual sexual encounter and the other person does not stop, it is rape.

Who here is disagreeing with you on that specific point?

What.

Someone please explain this to me, that makes no sense.

Jesus, nm.
 

aBarreras

Member
I keep getting extremely frustrated at this thread. Yes, the murky he-said/she-said is difficult to navigate, legally and morally, but god damn, if someone says no during a (previously) consensual sexual encounter and the other person does not stop, it is rape.

but he stops, and she still feels bad about it and decides to sue.

thats whats people is arguing here
 
Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.

No, that's not how the justice system works in the Americas, which are built on at least partially the tenant of "Innocent until proven guilty" from the Universal declaration of human rights.

Guilt has to be proven, not innocence. "The burden should always be on the man" implies you think they're guilty if accused and need to prove otherwise. As difficult as it may be in the situation for a woman who was raped, reversing that logic under any circumstances is not something I can stand by.
 
I keep getting extremely frustrated at this thread. Yes, the murky he-said/she-said is difficult to navigate, legally and morally, but god damn, if someone says no during a (previously) consensual sexual encounter and the other person does not stop, it is rape.

The person you quoted said exactly that...
 

Wereroku

Member
I dont see what the video actually proves...

I am going to guess it contradicts the drugging charges. The problem is that being truly blackout drunk/high doesn't mean you are passed out. Some blackout drunks actually function pretty well but have no recollections of anything that they do. However this probably showed enough evidence to prove willing consent was given and negated any other evidence making the case unwinnable.
 

Tecnniqe

Banned
Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.
It almost sounds like you're saying all men are rapist until proven otherwise.
 
Consent can surely be revoked, but what happens if consent is revoked during intercourse? (I mean obviously you stop having sex, but is it rape because he/she withdrew during the act?) Can you revoke consent after intercourse? How do you navigate those situations?

I hope you're a virgin because this is a pretty naive question otherwise.
 
What were her claims? FYI consent can be revoked.

Yes. This was my thought.

What.

Someone please explain this to me, that makes no sense.

It's not complicated. Girl goes home with dude, expecting comfortable vanilla sex. Dude turns out to be really creepy or tries to force certain acts that the girl doesn't feel comfortable with. Girl says "No. This is weird. I'm going home." Just as an example.
 

Pau

Member
I understand that, that's why I said you stop having sex with them

I'm asking , if you withdraw consent during sex, can someone say everything that occurred up to that point is also rape

I mean surely the obvious answer is no (provided there was original consent), but surely there are some people that would claim so

But this is actually not really a relevant thing to discuss, and is probably not a big real world issue so I'm not gonna continue talking about it lll
Sure they can say it, but they wouldn't be right. It would count as a false accusation.
 

Vestal

Junior Member
Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.

Its not that rape is not a problem. It truly is.

Having said that, the combination of experimentation, drugs, alcohol and naivete at such a young age mix into this ticking time bomb that the next day you can't tell which side is up in these situations.
 

Ekai

Member
I think I'm just gonna cut off my penis at this point. I just hate this double standard of women not being accountable if they're drunk. Woman has sex while intoxicated, she was raped. Man has sex while intoxicated, he's the rapist. It's like men are supposed to be accountable while drunk, but women aren't.

Yikes.
 

Sephzilla

Member
Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.

i get the point you're trying to make, but this seems like it flirts dangerously close with "guilty until proven innocent" logic

My take on all of this is that casual sex these days seems like its a dangerous slippery slope for a lot of reasons
 

Irminsul

Member
Well the odds seem to be on the (alleged) victim's side. And you don't want to be that guy that ignores a rape victim because you wanted to be fair to both sides.
Well, err, I would hope that a judicial system in a civilised society works exactly like that. I mean, that's basic human rights stuff.
 

norm9

Member
Hookup culture in college has always been a bit wild, experimental, and carnal (or so I've heard), so I do not envy young adults who have to navigate it for the first time in these modern times where everything is captured on camera, on twitter, facebook, and everywhere else.
 
What.

Someone please explain this to me, that makes no sense.
It makes no sense to you that it's possible to revoke consent once the sex has actually started? Uh

Look I'm gonna assume the video contradicted some of her claims and is enough to be evidence of reasonable doubt. Without evidence of the entire sexual act though we have no way of 100% knowing if it was or wasn't rape. Falsified rape accusations are heinous, actual rape is heinous, college administrations not doing enough to crack down on sexual assault on their campus' especially relating to Greek life and athletic organizations is heinous. This isn't a binary "you're with us or against us" type scenario.
 
Chappelle-Show-Love-Contract.jpg


CHAPPELLE_02_0204_LOVECONTRACT_640x360.jpg


Be protected, get your partner to sign shit. (I'm only half joking because these false rape accusations are absolutely awful and a terrifying prospect and a terrible thing to lie about).

Wait a second, Rashida Jones? The hell?
 
Yes this is true. I thought he was talking about afterwards or the next day.

I think the big concern here is drunk consent/sex and regret afterwards. I would be exceptionally safe regarding drunk consent/sex, that is just me. People get too drunk, do stupid stuff and don't completely remember everything...shit happens all the time.
 
...seems to me like there's literally nobody in the former category, and at least a few in the latter?

A few people in this thread making the former argument. Again, it's hard to make arguments against them without sounding like an MRA asshole. Putting all women on a pedestal and absolving them of bad decision making 100% of the time doesn't help either. College campuses absolutely have problems with rape, that much is undeniable. In this case, unless more evidence comes to light i.e; he was not intoxicated, someone heard her telling him to stop, etc, then this was the right call for now.
 

cromofo

Member
Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.

Recepits.

And no, it should not. Miss me with that shit.
 

Reeks

Member
It almost sounds like you're saying all men are rapist until proven otherwise.

The stat quoted is widely agreed upon. While that stat is high, I recall reading that most rapes are committed by a sub population of men (much less than 30% of men) since they are generally serial offenders. I think that's a pretty good reason to take all allegations seriously.
 

bionic77

Member
I mean, you should link to some sources rather than ask a gaffer to trust you.
Fine....

http://www.rrsonline.org/?page_id=944

One in five women has been the victim of attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.
Nearly 1 in 2 women have experienced sexual violence other than rape in their lifetime
1 in 5 men have experienced a form of sexual violence other than rape in their lifetime.
27% of male victims of completed rape were first raped when they were 10 years old or younger.
Most female victims of completed rape experienced their first rape before the age of 25 and almost half experienced their first completed rape before age 18.
1.3 million women have been raped in the last 12 months.
I have heard and read differing numbers on the percentage of sexual assault in colleges, but they all agree that it is far too common. I was first startled and shocked when a lawyer told me these stats like 15 years ago and I don't think a lot has changed since then.

It is shitty how vulnerable women can be in this situation, but don't you think it's also a problem that men aren't allowed to be sexually assaulted while drunk by cultural standards?
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say, which might be entirely my fault. I have to run so I will have to to continue this later.

...? That's not how our justice system works.

I agree that rape is a huge problem in this country but it's an inherently problematic crime. Barring any damning physical evidence too often it boils down to a "he said she said", and it's very tough to convict someone in that scenario.
I was more responding to someone who was saying how unfair some of this might be to men when it came to revoking consent then I was about the standards to convict someone of a crime.

For me I wish the problem was more well known and that more was being done to reduce the numbers. I am old but from afar it does seem like colleges are trying to make for better environments from women but I don't know how successful those attempts have been.
 

HarryKS

Member
Up to 30% of women are sexually assaulted before graduating from college.

The burden should always be on the men. As I say in all of these threads, there is a real problem with rape in this country that doesn't get nearly enough exposure or attention.


What do you consider sexual assault?

Because it can range from benign to severe.

Example: catcalling is not the same thing as rape.
 

Sky Chief

Member
When I was in college we were always told that if the girl is drunk then any consent that you think you were given doesn't mean shit and it can still be rape
 
It's not hard, folks. No castration or dismemberment is required. If you're engaging in sexual activity with a consenting adult and they communicate that you should stop, you are legally (as well as ethically and morally) required to stop. If you don't, that is a fundamental violation and qualifies as sexual assault and/or rape.

There have been some very bizarre questions asked about this in the thread.
 

Tawpgun

Member
You don't understand the idea that you can say yes and then before it starts or even during change your mind?

Like you can invite someone to your house and then decide once they're there that you want them to leave.

Oh, yeah.

Sorry, that wasn't clear. To me the quote implies you gave consent, had sex, and revoked.

If you said no, at any point, that is still rape. That much is clear. If you're having consensual sex and want it to stop and the guy doesn't, that's difficult to prove, but its rape.
It can be difficult to prove, such as this case. But like in all criminal cases, if you can't get clear evidence, you can't convict, which seems like that happened here.

The drunk stuff can also be cloudy. We were taught drunk people can't give consent. But obviously its difficult to draw a line in that. What counts as drunk? .08 is not the same thing as blackout plastered, what if both parties are impaired, is it a double rape or consensual sex?
 

Cyframe

Member
Consent is ongoing, as others have said. Someone wanting to have sex with you at first doesn't mean that they want to once things start. You should always be checking in with your partner during intercourse. A simple are you okay or does that feel good, are very easy things to do.

Also, using the courts standard of guilty or innocent doesn't mean a person didn't do it. Do people think OJ isn't a killer because he was found innocent? Or Police innocent when we watch them kill minorities with impunity? Come on now.

I don't know what happened during this case but, a video of someone being into someone isn't some ironclad consent contract. And I'm sure things like this are used to discredit victims of rape in a lot of cases.
 
What do you consider sexual assault?

Because it can range from benign to severe.

Example: catcalling is not the same thing as rape.
That's sexual harassment and not assault.

It's kind of sad that some people on a forum of mostly adults needs to be taught the basics of consent and sexual assault. I mean christ.
 

aBarreras

Member
It's not hard, folks. No castration or dismemberment is required. If you're engaging in sexual activity with a consenting adult and they communicate that you should stop, you are legally required to stop. If you don't, that is a fundamental violation and qualifies as sexual assault and/or rape.

There have been some very bizarre questions asked about this in the thread.

nobody is questioning that, holy shit. people are asking if the man stops and the girl still feels bad and decides to sue for rape
 

Sunster

Member
A few people in this thread making the former argument. Again, it's hard to make arguments against them without sounding like an MRA asshole. Putting all women on a pedestal and absolving them of bad decision making 100% of the time doesn't help either. College campuses absolutely have problems with rape, that much is undeniable. In this case, unless more evidence comes to light i.e; he was not intoxicated, someone heard her telling him to stop, etc, then this was the right call for now.

I wouldn't say women get absolved, like ever. Going through the process of accusing someone to trial is wildly difficult and traumatic. They are labeled as liars, sluts, and worse along the way. Then the rapist is rarely prosecuted. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/college-rape-prosecutors-press-charges_n_5500432.htmlThis is why false accusations are very rare
 

MindofKB

Member
It's not hard, folks. No castration or dismemberment is required. If you're engaging in sexual activity with a consenting adult and they communicate that you should stop, you are legally required to stop. If you don't, that is a fundamental violation and qualifies as sexual assault and/or rape.

There have been some very bizarre questions asked about this in the thread.

You're leaving out the regret claims though. When people wake up the next day, realize they gave consent while intoxicated and would not have done so otherwise, then claim they were a victim of sexual assault.

The "after the fact" claims are where things get extremely tricky.
 

whitehawk

Banned
It's not hard, folks. No castration or dismemberment is required. If you're engaging in sexual activity with a consenting adult and they communicate that you should stop, you are legally (as well as ethically and morally) required to stop. If you don't, that is a fundamental violation and qualifies as sexual assault and/or rape.

There have been some very bizarre questions asked about this in the thread.
This is absolutely true, but so far the evidence puts her claims in doubt. If she's claiming she did not consent mid-coitus, then it's just her word against his. You can't convict the guy on her word alone.
 
The person you quoted said exactly that...

I was agreeing/comiserating with them.

Who here is disagreeing with you on that specific point?

No one is outright disagreeing, there just seems to be alot of confusion/ignorance over when a sexual act can become rape, and it's pretty simple.

It's also important to note that she could have enthusiastically consented to intercourse but did not consent to the foreign object. That's rape, if he still used the object.

but he stops, and she still feels bad about it and decides to sue.

thats whats people is arguing here

Right--I think it's *fairly* obvious that this is not rape and is a piece of shit human being using a false accusation.

The only point where "after" is acceptable or legitimate is if it's determined that consent could not be legally given (in the case of intoxication) and the victim wants to press charges.
 
I'm not really a swinger, and don't have casual sex, but it just terrifies me and makes me feel like I should never have sex if I fear that I'll be accused of rape because someone changes their mind after the fact or something.

This is extremely unlikely to happen. Maybe relax a little bit.
 

RDreamer

Member
What do you consider sexual assault?

Because it can range from benign to severe.

Example: catcalling is not the same thing as rape.

Jesus christ. Benign sexual assault?

Also, catcalling is sexual harassment not sexual assault.

How do people not understand these things?
 
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