Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart I New Extended Gamescom Gameplay Demo

GymWolf said:
Personal taste are not poor arguments, fanboy stuff on the other hand...

I never talked shit about the game if that can make you sleep better at night.
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Sorry man I edited my post I mixed you with warnen that has been shit posting in this thread not you.You are clearly more level headed.That's probably why I couldn't find the shit I thought you posted.
 
azertydu91 said:
Sorry man I edited my post I mixed you with warnen that has been shit posting in this thread not you.You are clearly more level headed.That's probably why I couldn't find the shit I thought you posted.
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No problem broh, i can sound like a jackass sometimes, i'm well aware of that, but it's all for fun and spicing up thongs, i'm surely not an hater.
 
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GymWolf said:
Maybe it was a bit strange to look at it, but in terms of gameplay is far far better.

This narrative that only fps and driving game needs 60 frame is one of the most ridicolous i ever seen (not talking about you dude)
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Yeah for sure, the controller response is much improved of course. What each of us prefer and prioritize is another thing though 🙂

I guess we all have different needs, regardless of genre!
 
Md Ray said:
Oh, don't you worry there'll be plenty of 30fps games on MS' next-gen console too.
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And these will play just fine and will be tonnes of fun no doubt.
VFXVeteran said:
I'll tell you what I see.

1) The RT reflections are used very sparringly. It's not on every shiny surface and it makes the scene look odd. You got some surfaces using SSR and some using Cubemaps.

2) Ratchet doesn't even have real fur. Not in cinematics and certainly not while controlling the main hero.

3) The transitions to worlds isn't happening "instantly". It actually takes a couple of seconds (just a nitpick).

4) A lot of the particles and destruction disappear way too quickly. That shows the PS5's lack of bandwidth and storage to hold those things in memory longer.

5) The FX don't appear in reflections.

6) There is PBR of shaders but we've seen that all last gen.

Overall it's not doing anything new accept the fast load times. Graphically it's par for the course with some great art direction. One thing I hope you guys can take away from this though is how clean the image looks in native 4k. That alone should give you stricter requirements that your games not use any kind of checkerboard rendering. It truly takes away from the quality of the render.
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VFX, I will only take on one of your points, the rest I will leave when an outlet does an analysis of the video. Do you see the amount of particles, destroyed geometry and parts all over the playing level, including a tonne of NPC's and moving traffic, both on the ground and in the air? Why would they leave all of these drawn in since the game is transitioning from levels to worlds so quickly and drawing entire new levels on screen on the fly.....It's a design choice, no need to waste resources where you don't need it. Soon you will be asking them to keep 3-4 levels in memory just for the heck of it....


Also keeping objects on screen is not a limitation on PS5. If you look at a launch PS4 game in Killzone ShadowFall, bodies and objects remained even if you backtracked from the end of the level. It depends all on what the developer is doing. Higher quality RT needs more memory too....



-------------------
What I'm most impressed by is the materials quality, it's simply bonkers; glass, metal, no polygonal edges here and that smooth IQ. The NPC's are very detailed too and plentiful, the effects are really high rez and of top quality. Cue the smoke in the background on one of the shots, very high quality.....Yet that pristine 4K, when they went from the cutscene to the gameplay.....That is some crisp IQ right there......
 
The motion blur in this game is way too present imho.
That´s always the first thing I disable on PC.

I get that it adds a "cineastic feel", but I don`t need crisp and very expensive 4k resolution if I´m going to blur everything 80% of the time anyways. At least that`s my opinion/taste.
 
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thelastword said:
VFX, I will only take on one of your points, the rest I will leave when an outlet does an analysis of the video. Do you see the amount of particles, destroyed geometry and parts all over the playing level, including a tonne of NPC's and moving traffic, both on the ground and in the air? Why would they leave all of these drawn in since the game is transitioning from levels to worlds so quickly and drawing entire new levels on screen on the fly.....It's a design choice, no need to waste resources where you don't need it. Soon you will be asking them to keep 3-4 levels in memory just for the heck of it....
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't think it would be a good idea to leave all the debris on the ground, design-wise. It would get mixed up with all the bolts and nuts which were overlooked or too far away to be sucked in automatically.
Since they are the main in-game currency, they should be clearly visible for the player before he moves to the next area.
 
VFXVeteran said:
I'll tell you what I see.

1) The RT reflections are used very sparringly. It's not on every shiny surface and it makes the scene look odd. You got some surfaces using SSR and some using Cubemaps.

2) Ratchet doesn't even have real fur. Not in cinematics and certainly not while controlling the main hero.

3) The transitions to worlds isn't happening "instantly". It actually takes a couple of seconds (just a nitpick).

4) A lot of the particles and destruction disappear way too quickly. That shows the PS5's lack of bandwidth and storage to hold those things in memory longer.

5) The FX don't appear in reflections.

6) There is PBR of shaders but we've seen that all last gen.

Overall it's not doing anything new accept the fast load times. Graphically it's par for the course with some great art direction. One thing I hope you guys can take away from this though is how clean the image looks in native 4k. That alone should give you stricter requirements that your games not use any kind of checkerboard rendering. It truly takes away from the quality of the render.
Click to expand...

It was already deducted a while back but the polygon count on ratchet is more than the CGI animated film. Fur or not IQ wise it looks amazing. Especially when you notice all the physics going on as well. Having to render fur on ratchet would probably be a lost cause in rendering power.

So it was spent elsewhere.

Game looks great can't wait for NX Gamer and Digital Foundry to put up videoes.
 
IbelieveInGenerations said:
I actually love all of these stuff.

Simulating camera effects is Part of the beauty for me.

Most technically advanced gameplay ever seen
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i mean, i know that blur help with 30 frames and that dof can be nice sometimes, i just don't like these effect very much.

same for chromatic aberration, in some rare instance can be nice, but most of the times is ugly as fuck.
 
Wonko_C said:
Has it been confirmed it's running in native 4K or is it using some reconstruction tech?
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Expect an review of the 4K video (not YouTube) from NXGamer NXGamer / DF in 3... 2... 1... Soon-ish, I'd guess.

(that is to say, we don't know yet, but we'll know soon enough)
 
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Pedro Motta said:
Bro, for someone who says that works in the realtime industry, you are very picky and show very little understanding and respect for what's going on with this game. It's getting really annoying.
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Why? Because I'm not praising it to high heavens? I was being realistic. The guy asked me for my input and I gave it. It's because I worked in the industry that I am so picky. You guys wanted next-gen visuals and this game doesn't show you what you've already seen and labeled as current-gen. Why should it be elevated to "next-gen" status when it's not doing anything we haven't seen before?
 
VFXVeteran said:
I worked on realtime graphics systems (Unity, Unreal, OpenGL, etc..).. and graphics systems as a whole (Maya, Arnold, Redshift, Mental Ray, CUDA, etc). No games.
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You got any examples, that a layman would understand from a visual/video PoV?
 
Game looks great! A slight downgrade in places compared to reveal, but the game looks good nonetheless.
 
thelastword said:
VFX, I will only take on one of your points, the rest I will leave when an outlet does an analysis of the video. Do you see the amount of particles, destroyed geometry and parts all over the playing level, including a tonne of NPC's and moving traffic, both on the ground and in the air? Why would they leave all of these drawn in since the game is transitioning from levels to worlds so quickly and drawing entire new levels on screen on the fly.....It's a design choice, no need to waste resources where you don't need it. Soon you will be asking them to keep 3-4 levels in memory just for the heck of it....
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but it happens to the point that it's distracting. Take a look at Control on the PC @ Ultra settings. It does particle lifetimes a bit longer but not too long. And it's doing a lot more transparent triangles.

Also keeping objects on screen is not a limitation on PS5. If you look at a launch PS4 game in Killzone ShadowFall, bodies and objects remained even if you backtracked from the end of the level. It depends all on what the developer is doing. Higher quality RT needs more memory too....
Click to expand...

The PS5/XSX is limited by bandwidth. How can anyone deny that? I can tell the game is reaching it's bandwidth limits. Native 4k is a bandwidth hog. Correct? You have RT reflections but can't have them everywhere. That's a bandwidth limitation (number of rays/intersection). FX don't show in reflections - again another bandwidth limitation. Runs at 30FPS - another bandwidth limitation.

What I'm most impressed by is the materials quality, it's simply bonkers; glass, metal, no polygonal edges here and that smooth IQ. The NPC's are very detailed too and plentiful, the effects are really high rez and of top quality. Cue the smoke in the background on one of the shots, very high quality.....Yet that pristine 4K, when they went from the cutscene to the gameplay.....That is some crisp IQ right there......
Click to expand...

We've seen better materials. We've seen extremely detailed NPCs.. We've even seen real fur shading and fur rendering for the first time (i.e. Black Myth).

All the FX are of high quality and high rez, etc. as you state and that's in part because the game is running at a native 4k. You'll get that clarity that you really haven't seen before in the previous generation. But Xbox has recently seen native 4k games and PC has been rendering native 4k for an entire generation.
 
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INCUBASE said:
More whats the end result of your work, and what it adds up to. 'Here's a video of my graphics system at work'

Or am I thinking about this to layman lol
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There is no way I can show you my realtime work here at Lockheed dude. That's like asking Anoop @ Rockstar games to show you some demonstration of the next generation GTA - actually it's worst than that since I am working on classified stuff.

Just look at a previous post of my CV and you should gather from that and all the companies and movies I worked on the scope of my understanding of 3D graphics.

The points I made are valid. Ask any graphics programmer that and they'll verify it. I'm not here spouting BS about what goes on inside a rendering engine for kicks or to get a rise from the Sony guys. I gave what I objectively saw and people can see what I saw if they walked through the video. It's crystal clear.
 
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Papacheeks said:
It was already deducted a while back but the polygon count on ratchet is more than the CGI animated film. Fur or not IQ wise it looks amazing. Especially when you notice all the physics going on as well. Having to render fur on ratchet would probably be a lost cause in rendering power.
Click to expand...

You can say it looks amazing because you haven't seen a real fur render. Watch the end of Black Myth. It will enlighten you as to how a real effort to render fur primitives with self-shadowing and multiple lobe specular lighting can do.

The polygon count isn't what makes CGI stand out. It's the lighting and shading that can't be matched. And of course, a CGI rendering of say.. Monsters Inc, is of course using more polygons with real fur rendering tessellated down to triangle strips for every individual strand of hair than this game so it depends on the situation. Any CG movie can have a polygon budget that will overrun any graphics card. That's just the way it is and will be for some time.
 
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I was watching the video again and these floor reflections have no sense to me. Where they come from? There is a wall just in front. Are they raytraced?

RSVF1Qx.jpg
 
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VFXVeteran said:
There is no way I can show you my realtime work here at Lockheed dude. That's like asking Anoop @ Rockstar games to show you some demonstration of the next generation GTA - actually it's worst than that since I am working on classified stuff.

Just look at a previous post of my CV and you should gather from that and all the companies and movies I worked on the scope of my understanding of 3D graphics.

The points I made are valid. Ask any graphics programmer that and they'll verify it. I'm not here spouting BS about what goes on inside a rendering engine for kicks or to get a rise from the Sony guys. I gave what I objectively saw and people can see what I saw if they walked through the video. It's crystal clear.
Click to expand...

I wasnt asking to try and discredit you, i know fuck all about the subject, only what looks good to my own eyes

Was generally interested in what you do, since you're in the industry
 
INCUBASE said:
I wasnt asking to try and discredit you, i know fuck all about the subject, only what looks good to my own eyes

Was generally interested in what you do, since you're in the industry
Click to expand...

I'm waiting for this video upload to finish. I'll show you my last work in the film industry and it should give you some insights on why I judge things so harshly and respect new innovations in graphics (like FS2020, UE5 demo and Black Myth fur rendering).
 
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TonyK said:
I was watching the video again and these floor reflections have no sense to me. Where they come from? There is a wall just in front. Are they raytraced?

RSVF1Qx.jpg
Click to expand...

That's most likely the ceiling or other stuff near by. And that's exactly the strong point of RT, it renders things that should be there, even if the objects are physically located outside of the screen.
 
The fact that it was non stop action, with stopping, pausing, loading or juddering.

I was blown away by the length of the gameplay without chucking a cutscene in. Even the rift shifts were kept minimal to keep up the pace of the action
 
VFXVeteran said:
You can say it looks amazing because you haven't seen a real fur render. Watch the end of Black Myth. It will enlighten you as to how a real effort to render fur primitives with self-shadowing and multiple lobe specular lighting can do.

The polygon count isn't what makes CGI stand out. It's the lighting and shading that can't be matched. And of course, a CGI rendering of say.. Monsters Inc, is of course using more polygons with real fur rendering tessellated down to triangle strips for every individual strand of hair than this game so it depends on the situation. Any CG movie can have a polygon budget that will overrun any graphics card. That's just the way it is and will be for some time.
Click to expand...

I use to go to school for Animation and design in Academy of art in San-Frnacisco was on the BlueSky studios internship they had. I know what a fur render looks like. All I said was I was impressed with the character models of ratchet and clank.

And compared to the 2016 CGI film they are better in character detail, polycount, lighting, and materials used.

I may not be in this field anymore as I am in IT administration now, but I dont need some asshole talking down to me and others. Who was literally banned for spewing bullshit insider info on the other site.
 
ZywyPL said:
That's most likely the ceiling or other stuff near by. And that's exactly the strong point of RT, it renders things that should be there, even if the objects are physically located outside of the screen.
Click to expand...
But real reflections don't work in that way. You can't reproduce what's happening in that screenshot in reality.
I know the difference between SSR and RT, and what's happening in that screenshot is none of both :/

 
PharaoTutAnchAmun said:
You have seen around 2 min. of footage in the first event, this was a gameplay demo of 7 min.😉
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Ah okay, guess I just didn't notice the new footage in-between. Because the beginning and end were the exactly same, and then I recognized a lot of the sounds and VA in-between so I wasn't sure. It felt not different, haha.
 
Papacheeks said:
I use to go to school for Animation and design in Academy of art in San-Frnacisco was on the BlueSky studios internship they had. I know what a fur render looks like. All I said was I was impressed with the character models of ratchet and clank.

And compared to the 2016 CGI film they are better in character detail, polycount, lighting, and materials used.

I may not be in this field anymore as I am in IT administration now, but I dont need some asshole talking down to me and others. Who was literally banned for spewing bullshit insider info on the other site.
Click to expand...

First of all, I am not down talking you. I'm addressing you. Secondly, I worked at BlueSky for 2 yrs on the original Ice Age film. I was a software developer there working with Carl and Eugene FYI. It's a small world.

I don't have any problem with you having an appreciation for the game but I'm not sure how any CGI film of 2016 could look less than a cinematic in a videogame. Lighting and materials? Huh?

Lastly, I got banned from ERA because I rubbed the Sony modforce the wrong way. Not for spewing any "insider" info because I wasn't even verified on that site.
 
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TonyK said:
I was watching the video again and these floor reflections have no sense to me. Where they come from? There is a wall just in front. Are they raytraced?

RSVF1Qx.jpg
Click to expand...
no, those blue letters "reflected" on the shiny floor there, they are from the building ....behind the wall ...across the street ....after the gap :messenger_beaming:



:messenger_beaming:

I am wondering if DIGITAL FOUNDRY or NXGamer NXGamer or whoever else pretends to be honest will talk about "ray tracing".
the non-mentioning of non-existant raytracing on gt7 gameplay was big fault number 1. lets see who of them does fault number 2.
because, as many of you might know, repeated faults are not mistakes.
 
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INCUBASE said:
I wasnt asking to try and discredit you, i know fuck all about the subject, only what looks good to my own eyes

Was generally interested in what you do, since you're in the industry
Click to expand...

INCUBASE,

I won't hijack this thread. I'll make another thread on next-gen visuals. Stay tuned!
 
TonyK said:
I made this quick photoshop adjust to show better what I'm referring about reflections.


YZZyi7p.jpg
Click to expand...

They are just using a ray-switch shader. I developed one before and it's very very useful.

It goes like this:

Cast a ray into the scene.
If my ray intersects a light source, then don't cast anymore rays and return NULL
If my ray intersects any FX or transparency polygons, then don't cast anymore and return NULL.
If I hit a normal non-transparent object and I have not exhausted my ray count, then return the shader color on that surface.

It's a very nice way of keeping bandwidth down and computations down while trying to fool a little bit.
 
turtlepowa said:
Who is talking about TF? I was talking about his sadness level.


Got a two weeks ban warning for it. Mods really don't like that number :messenger_beaming:
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Wait what? Why are the mods offended if i'm not offended?!

Well it was a nice joke nevertheless.
 
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VFXVeteran said:
First of all, I am not down talking you. I'm addressing you. Secondly, I worked at BlueSky for 2 yrs on the original Ice Age film. I was a software developer there working with Carl and Eugene FYI. It's a small world.

I don't have any problem with you having an appreciation for the game but I'm not sure how any CGI film of 2016 could look less than a cinematic in a videogame. Lighting and materials? Huh?

Lastly, I got banned from ERA because I rubbed the Sony modforce the wrong way. Not for spewing any "insider" info because I wasn't even verified on that site.
Click to expand...

Lol, you really are butthurt and annoyed with Sony. What happened? Did you apply to work at one of the Sony studios and got rejected?

Please, sit down and take this this doll. Please point where Sony touched you. ;)
 
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