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[SantaC]

Judging from all the video and screenshots, this demo level is simple when compared to what's in store for us: the giant bosses, the torch-bearing druids, the swamp creatures. But, even based on this sampling, it's still easily one of the most fundamentally entertaining action games we've played. It shows a lot of design brilliance with its pacing.

One thing is for sure, though: Resident Evil 4 is one of the best games here on the showfloor and it's also about the best thing GameCube has going for it, especially in 2005. It's one of those rare projects, like Halo 2 or Gran Turismo 4, that was promised to be a groundbreaking next-generation title long ago and in the here-and-now it really lives up to the hype.

http://cube.ign.com/articles/550/550819p1.html

Their only compliant is that you can't strafe (hey this isn't your normal fps IGN)

 

[Musashi Wins!]

The pivot/tank thing is retarded though. Check out the collision detection problems as well, jesus. Atmosphere looks amazing though.

 

[ourumov]

The collision problems are very evident in the videos Maskrider posted...They should solve it.

 

[SantaC]

The collision problems are very evident in the videos Maskrider posted...They should solve it.

Yes, but was that the updated E3 demo, or old E3 demo?

 

[Mr Gump]

Ive said all along that the game needs the ability to strafe. Its stupid that the option isnt there. When you back into a tree, u have to stop aiming, pivot around the tree and resume aim. Stupid. And Clumsy.

 

[BigGreenMat]

We can complain about strafing all the time, but we have to realize that RE wouldn't be RE without the tank controls. That is exactly what Mikami had said and is sticking to.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

We can complain about strafing all the time, but we have to realize that RE wouldn't be RE without the tank controls. That is exactly what Mikami had said and is sticking to.

Bah ha... no. Or, I can believe at least that Mikami said that, but he's wrong too. RE4 is such a departure from the rest of the series in so very many ways, but we still consider it to be Resident Evil. Those controls needed the boot back on the PSone, everybody thinks so, he's just being stubborn.

Appreciate, then, what the Silent Hill titles did in not only allowing you to fully configure your controls, but giving you the option between 3D (RE) and 2D (DMC) movement. PLus, the 3D tank controls included strafe buttons.

DMC style controls in the older RE games with a good lock-on would add everything and subtract nothing.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Bah ha... no. Or, I can believe at least that Mikami said that, but he's wrong too. RE4 is such a departure from the rest of the series in so very many ways, but we still consider it to be Resident Evil. Those controls needed the boot back on the PSone, everybody thinks so, he's just being stubborn.

Appreciate, then, what the Silent Hill titles did in not only allowing you to fully configure your controls, but giving you the option between 3D (RE) and 2D (DMC) movement. PLus, the 3D tank controls included strafe buttons.

DMC style controls with a good lock-on would add everything and subtract nothing.

No way, DMC controls for a quasi FPS game? RE4 isnt a "real" 3rd person game, it controls pretty much like metroid prime, the camera is always fixed on leon, unlike old REs, DMC, SH and so on.

 

[SantaC]

IGN didn't complain on the controls as a whole. They complained on the lack of strafe.

 

[Vlad]

Is there even a sideways dodge or anything? Maskrider's videos showed some of the enemies throwing sickles or something at the main character, which would be pretty hard to avoid without some way to move sideways quickly.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Indeed, but i would take metroid prime controls for RE4 over DMC or any NON RELATED gameplay mechanics from other 3rd person games. With a view point like RE4, you either have metroid prime controls or dual analog controls like traditional FPS.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

No way, DMC controls for a quasi FPS game? RE4 isnt a "real" 3rd person game, it controls pretty much like metroid prime, the camera is always fixed on leon, unlike old REs, DMC, SH and so on.

I started talking about the RE series as a whole, and not just RE4, forgive me, I did not make that clear.

My basic point stands that every RE game prior to this one , and excepting Dead Aim, would have only been made better by the substitution of a 2D control scheme for the 3D, where applicable.

The claim that Resident Evil needs tank controls is insulting to us. Apparently, Resident Evil doesn't even need zombies.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Is there even a sideways dodge or anything? Maskrider's videos showed some of the enemies throwing sickles or something at the main character, which would be pretty hard to avoid without some way to move sideways quickly.

You shoot them


Arcadestickmonkey, oh ok, i agree, past REs would have been a much smoother experience with 3d controls

 

[slayn]

RE controls are awesome, just needs a faster turning rate. Dunno if they did that for RE4.

 

[slayn]

You shoot them


Arcadestickmonkey, oh ok, i agree, past REs would have been a much smoother experience with 3d controls

has anyone ever actually played with 3d controls in RE2 on N64 before saying this? 3d controls in RE2 blow and make the game far HARDER to control and dodge and attack.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

has anyone ever actually played with 3d controls in RE2 on N64 before saying this? 3d controls in RE2 blow and make the game far HARDER to control and dodge and attack.

No actually, but proper implementation, or lack of, could make or break the system. Plus the N64 stick is very twitchy.

Again, I'm going to point to Silent Hill as an example. The combat in these two series is very similar, but SH pulls off a 2D scheme every bit as good as it's 3D, and I think most would say better.

 

[slayn]

so basically your saying a feature you've never experienced in the RE series is definitely superior, even though me and everyone I know that has experienced exactly what you want says it sucks.

just checking.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

so basically your saying a feature you've never experienced in the RE series is definitely superior, even though me and everyone I know that has experienced exactly what you want says it sucks.

just checking.

It's a good thing you checked. I think we're all learning something today.

I meant that SH's 2D is as good or better than SH's 3D.

I would suspect that the RE2-64 2D scheme's failing result from poor implementation and certainly the quality of the stick being used.

However, being that I like SH's 2D, and you say that RE2-64's 2D is teh balls, and I believe you, then logically I would indeed have to conclude that the 2D control in Silent Hill is implementated better than in RE2-64.

 

[slayn]

I'm far more conformatable using the n64 stick than I am the dual shock. The controls were responsive and worked exactly as I expected them to. So thats certainly not the problem.

your problem is that you are leaping with an invalid analogy in thinking that re and silent hill are structured the same.

The games are similar in genre but they way the world is structred, the way you move and explore that world, are completely different. Re's tank controls are superior to that of normal 3d analog because of the sctructure of the world. No open spaces, small rooms interconnected by long hallways that change to awkward angels and everything of interest is on the perimiter of these spaces.

I've played both games. I've tried all control schemes I come across in those games. And I'm telling you that tank controls are better in RE based on experience. I'd say I'm in a slightly better position to make that call than you are.

the controls had no need to change until the focus of the game changed. Which it looks like it did in RE4 and so how you see and control were indeed changed exactly when they needed to. The question then is were they changed correctly. That is a question I can't yet answer and so I have to momentarily leave it in IGN's hands.

 

[Deg]

How do the enemies sound?

Do they groan nicely?

 

[slayn]

was that meant to be extremely disturbing, or do I just have my mind in the gutter? >_<

 

[sc0la]

A true analog implimentation of the tank control is > 3D control in an RE game (well in previous fixed camera iterations, I haven't played this one yet.)

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

The games are similar in genre but they way the world is structred, the way you move and explore that world, are completely different. Re's tank controls are superior to that of normal 3d analog because of the sctructure of the world. No open spaces, small rooms interconnected by long hallways that change to awkward angels and everything of interest is on the perimiter of these spaces.

Lemme explain where I got my 2D and 3D label and define them at the same time. Silent Hill 2 allows you to toggle between a control scheme styled like Resident Evil and one similar to Devil May Cry. SH2 calls the Resident Evil styled scheme "3D" and the Devil May Cry style, "2D."

So I'm confused when you say the RE's tank controls, which I've defined as 3D, are superior to 3D analog in other games. I guess you mean that the style works better in RE which typically has you entering a room and shooting a few enemies while remaining stationary than in, say, Tomb Raider where Lara often needed to dodge multiple fast moving enemies in more open areas and was forced to take too wide turns in order to move around. Well that's certainly true.

Forgetting what may be found in RE2-64 for a moment, allow me to use the many boss encounters throughout the RE series as instances where being able to change direction quickly and smoothly would have been a welcome privilage. The dual-clawed tyrant in RE2, the underground worm in RECV, and the final Alexia in RECV are all standout examples where RE's 3D control scheme was put into environments unlike those you described and performed rather clunkily. Very similar boss battle in the Silent Hill series are far less of a hassle to play, using the included 2D scheme.

Now, I think we can all agree that there are many aspects of Resident evil that have been kept around for far to many games; the "cinematic" camera angle is one of the largest and has just now been dropped. The tank controls were not the best choice for the original Resident Evil, but they worked and the game was good enough for us too all overlook it. Now it's nearly ten years later and it's time we all, including Mikami, were thinking about how the Resident Evil series can continue to play so well amongst it's contemporary competiton.

The tank controls probably won't be coming back, from the perspective that we've known them anyway, so it's a moot point even. Just realize that those "classic" controls are not what makes Resident Evil so good. Nobody boots up a RE game while explaining to their friend, "It's fun to turn like a tank." I don't particulary believe this, but I'm willing to grant that 2D controls thrown into any ol' RE title, as is, hold great potential to feel sloppy. But the series needed a redeign, it's undergoing a redesign, and the tank controls need to be dropped along with the camera design that makes them seem like a good idea.

 

[Jonnyboy117]

If you want to know how well the older RE games could work with "free" controls, just play Eternal Darkness. It works great and feels very natural. It's basically the same as the control option in RE2 for N64, but much more finely balanced and tweaked.

 

[ArcadeStickMonk]

If you want to know how well the older RE games could work with "free" controls, just play Eternal Darkness. It works great and feels very natural. It's basically the same as the control option in RE2 for N64, but much more finely balanced and tweaked.

Meh... I guess but I don't think it's as close of a parrallel as Silent Hill. The environment design in ED is much more open that RE games, so that does allow the 2d scheme to take advantage.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

Bah ha... no. Or, I can believe at least that Mikami said that, but he's wrong too. RE4 is such a departure from the rest of the series in so very many ways, but we still consider it to be Resident Evil.

Everyone's saying what a departure it is...but I think that's a sham. Why because it doesn't have Zombies? It has the same rotten controls, beautiful if removed environments, and horror-movie inspired fixed camera angles. Where are these huge changes?

People who played the demo in Texas were talking about how akward it can be to aim with that control setup, and watching the demo just proves the point. I don't doubt it's purposeful just as Mikami says (the tension of movement adding to the tension of being killed on screen) but the idea that this game was going to be the next big thing in adventure gaming rather than utilize stilted horror genre controls doesn't hold up any more than some of the previous graphical claims.

 

[maskrider]

I really want to be able to strafe (or the better, roll sideways), now you have to turn (slowly) then run away, or make a 180 turn and run away.

I will want to be able to walk while aiming, currently I must stand still while aiming.

The C stick is almost useless except for zooming when using binocular or just a little more of the higher and lower angles of your view.