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[ungalo]

Gamers don't give a shit about new games that are only interested in peddling DEI and woke agendas. I blame the developers.

Masterpieces were bombing way before the woke shit.

I agree it seems childish to blame the market, it's like blaming natural elements or something. But the answer that "gamers just buy good games without DEI" is even more baffling to me. Like what ? What is this narrative all of a sudden ?

Might be because of the press vs gamers paranoia but whatever, it's just false.

 

[Gojiira]

That's an interesting point actually. Maybe money that would get spent on other games is now being ploughed into the live services, cannibalising opportunities for other games to have a risk taken on them

I wouldn’t be surprised tbh, with how much nickel and diming, season passes,battle passes,premium dlc etc etc that floods these games, its a lot of money going towards ‘content’ that offers nothing…

 

[Three]

He's right and I don't mean in terms of that dumb agenda fuelled argument that you should buy games even if they don't really appeal to you way. The author doesn't go into dumb agendas either. I mean that a lot of gamers would play one or two staple games and mostly complain about every other game out there even if it's the most stupid inconsequential thing. Oh why was Eves outfit like this, why does this character do that, why do the puddles look like that. It's very hard for people to take chances on games now with all the f2p and GaaS type games providing entertainment for long hours and little cost.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Reminds of Costco.

- Costco huge growth over the decades
- Sells a very small number of items (in many product categories there might be ONE item to choose. Take it or leave it)
- Good prices, warranty and quality mainstream products
- Other stores have way more selection, higher end products, and better knowledgeable staff

Customers to blame for Costco dominance helping small chains and stores fold!!!!

Well, maybe the avg Costco shopper doesn't give a shit about 16 different snow shovels or 40 different jars of pasta sauce. They just want one good shovel and 3 sauces to choose from at a reasonable price.

 

[darrylgorn]

 

[adamsapple]

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

He's right and I don't mean in terms of that dumb agenda fuelled argument that you should buy games even if they don't really appeal to you way. The author doesn't go into dumb agendas either. I mean that a lot of gamers would play one or two staple games and mostly complain about every other game out there even if it's the most stupid inconsequential thing. Oh why was Eves outfit like this, why does this character do that, why do the puddles look like that. It's very hard for people to take chances on games now with all the f2p and GaaS type games providing entertainment for long hours and little cost.

The original premise is wrong. Far from declining, the industry is thriving, more than ever. The only ones declining are those who forgot who their customers are. Except for COD, which can pee in their fanbase mouth and would still get money from them, studios are learning a harsh lesson: love must be earned, they can't take customers for granted anymore.

 

[Punished Miku]

some of the more innovative games of this year, like [...] Metaphor: ReFantazio

What lol.

But on the whole I agree with the sentiment. People are more conservative, risk-averse, and corporate than ever with their taste in all forms of media this decade.

 

[Fake]

Are you serious? lol

 

[Zacfoldor]

Digital purchases are irrelevant. They have nothing to do with risk aversion.

Sequels and remakes flooding the industry is an issue, but one that stagnates any large commercial industry. Nostalgia sells better than sex. With long tail, large projects, it is hard to justify the risk if reward isn’t almost certain. Not sure there is a path out. It isn’t industry threatening, it is industry saving, but it is a little disappointing.

 

[Clear]

Guys, its Metro. Words cannot describe quite how much of a bad joke that thing is.

I can't say too much because it would get into UK politics, but essentially its a free "newspaper" that you find given away on public transport that propagandizes for certain vested interests.
Its biases are not subtle!

 

[adamsapple]

Are you serious? lol

As far as agreeing with the article that it's an incredible difficult up-hill battle for new IP compared to franchises. Especially if the new IP is coming from a smaller / mid-budget studio.

 

[Salz01]

It’s pretty simple, developers are free to make any game they want. Gamers can choose not to buy it. Make a game that people want to purchase if you want a profit.

 

[pulicat]

Best selling games on PS5/XSX since 2020

1. GTAV
2. COD 2020 - 2024
3. FIFA 21 - 25
4. Madden
5. Random 3rd party breakout(Hogwarts Legacy, Elden Ring, and DBZ Sparking zero)

 

[RCX]

Stop making your business model dependent on 10 million+ sales. Cut your cloth accordingly and make a profit. (see Japanese studios recently)

Quit trying to be the "new" --insert zeitgeistgamenamehere--

 

[Fbh]

What he describes isn't really anything new, and blaming the audience is dumb.
Back when I was in High School during the Ps2 era basically all the boys played videogames, but I'd say around 80% of them just played sports games (mostly PES) and maybe a small handful of big releases like GTA. Those of us that were playing stuff like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, DMC, Shadow of the Colossus, etc where always in the minority.

A large chunk of the general audience just being into a handful of big names and "brands" isn't something unique to videogames. Sure we can daydream about some hypothetical scenario where Unicorn Overlord sells just as much COD, Robert Eggers movies consistently do MCU numbers, your favorite high quality fiction writers sell as may books as Dan Brown and your favorite indie band fills stadiums like Taylor Swift. But that's just not reality.

If anything games like Unicorn Overlord and Metaphor are good examples of how to do things right. Realize you'll never get the COD and Fifa audience, instead find your niche and make good games that appeal to them with reasonable budgets that don't requiere you to sell 8 million units to make a decent profit. As far as I know both games were considered successful by Atlus/Sega.

 

[justiceiro]

Why would I waste 2-3 hours trying a new game just because is new when I can waste the same three hours with 3 matches of dota that I will probably lose, but have fun at least?

If all new games were obliged to do something new, I would try them happily, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[simpatico]

The concept of a friend group is completely foreign to these people. The funny thing is, they don't buy the games that these investors lost their shirts to make them. The pendulum swing in the US is going to be wild after all the money that was lost trying to court these people to spends theirs. Only to find out they didn't have any, just tertiary access to their parents' money.

 

[yurinka]

Gaming isn't declining, it's growing: there's more money spent on gaming than ever before.

If some people keep playing older games is because they prefer them over new ones. Games like Concord or Dustborn may not appeal to them. But there are many super successful new games, look at Helldivers 2, Palworld, Space Marine 2, Balatro, ZZZ, Marvel Rivals, Path of Exile 2, Fist Descendant etc.

 

[WoJ]

I don't think the author is completely wrong. The first sentence in the article says CASUAL gamers, and that's how I took the points he was making - a criticism of casual gamers.

It feels like his criticism of casual gamers is that high quality niche stuff isn't grabbing hold with them and getting more exposure because of it. While people in this thread are pointing out games like Unicorn Overlord and Metaphor are successful for niche titles, it seemed to me the author was arguing that casuals aren't embracing these titles, and if they did they could help the industry grow by getting companies to put more money into titles like that instead of the slop we are seeing across the board from companies like Ubisoft. While there is some truth to that, my question would be what are companies doing to bring in new players to niche titles? And why are companies launching new IPs with unrealistic sales expectations that make failure inevitable. The Callisto Protocol comes to mind. The game sold like 2 million as a new horror IP. That's pretty good. But I thought I read it needed like 5 million in sales to be considered successful which is insane. That's not on gamers.

The other criticism he has about digital vs physical I mostly agree with. Specifically the argument that one of the reasons digital has taken off is because gamers are too lazy to get off their fat asses and change a disc. I've seen that said around here countless times. It's obviously not just that and there is an overarching change consumer preference from physical to digital, but phasing out physical completely does hurt the consumer in the long run. It means less options and less competition and gives these companies more control over pricing. We should continue to push back against that.

And for everyone referencing DEI in this thread....this article says nothing about DEI. I know it's hard to separate DEI crap and it's impact on modern gaming, but I don't think it's relevant to the argument this author is making. I took it more as "how do we get casuals to embrace high quality niche games that move the industry in the right direction."

 

[ProtoByte]

The article is at least partially correct. Whatever the state of a market as optional as gaming is, consumers are at least partially responsible. And the core gaming audience has validated a lot of bullshit. Especially biting down on the newest F2P slop en masse and playing the same game for a literal decade. They do this, while wondering why major publishers aren't making new IPs.

At the same time, the publishers and devs have taken advantage of the situation and degraded in fundamental ways.

Devs are lazier, less ambitious, and less rigorous.
Publishers are too permissive with their workforce (post commie media hit pieces primarily from Kotaku) and too cash-grabby with their business practices, are utterly incapable of thinking outside of selective/fabricated or even factual data reports.

Why wouldn't gamers retreat to endless sequels, remakes and remasters of established brands if no one of consequence is offering something that is actually new and sufficient to the standards we have today? I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There's no reason prestige studios from major publishers shouldn't be batting a non-inflated 85-90 every time at this point in the medium. New IP or otherwise. And sorry guys, but the 19k pieces of slop released on Steam ain't gonna cut it either. Indie games are in just as bad a position.

 

[CSJ]

Gaming is not declining, it's likely up around +$4B yoy.
Digital vs Physical is like what's better, eating at a restaurant or ordering take-out from the very same restaurant.

Better for who?
- Staff?
- Customers?
- Shareholders?

Hmmmm it really is the biggest mystery in all of business!

 

[Fess]

I think bigger issue is discoverability of well made games. A lot of fine games are releasing but are not finding audience.

Yeah. My #3 GOTY 2024 was only discovered because John (Digital Foundry) had it on his personal pick GOTY list.
Minishoot Adventures
Had no idea it even existed.

 

[Fake]

As far as agreeing with the article that it's an incredible difficult up-hill battle for new IP compared to franchises. Especially if the new IP is coming from a smaller / mid-budget studio.

If the game is bad, I can't agree with this at all.


Ignoring a sucess like Wukong, do we really need to go that silly route?

Of course the article is bias. The autor left many others reasons about why new IPs are failing.

Even if so, I wouldn't blame consumers at all. Is their money.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

haha I'm laughing in woke developers' faces because I'm not falling for such a weak sales act.

 

[Laptop1991]

Unbelievable!, same old, same old, they keep coming out with this crap constantly instead of just admitting the games are mostly not worth buying, that's why they arn't selling well, but this will continue no doubt.

 

[adamsapple]

Even if so, I wouldn't blame consumers at all. Is their money.

Of course, it's people's money and most people don't have a lot to spare.

I'm just agreeing with the part that newer IP in general is a more risky prospect than established IP.

 

[laynelane]

People playing annual titles that they enjoy, the horror. Annual titles have been a thing for decades so it's pretty silly to say that now they're contributing to the decline in gaming. In reality, there's many factors and very little has to do with gamers. That's why several companies, mostly Western, are facing uncertain financial futures. Games are being made that no one asked for or wants and so they don't do well- that's the actual so-called decline in gaming - which mysteriously doesn't seem to impact games from Japan, China, Korea, etc. very much at all.

You know, it's been years and years of people blaming gamers for the state of the industry. Putting that on the customer never ends well in any business, but people just can't stop themselves. I figure as much as gaming has become mainstream, there's still many stereotypes active in some people's minds. That's why "gamers" are continually under fire for just about every slight under the sun.

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

I like what i like, what can i do.

I do sometimes try things i wouldn't think i would enjoy, like lets say Death Stranding.. which turn out to be wonderful... but usually when gameplay doesn't seems my ally it in fact something i don't like, and thanks Game Pass for saving me buying them lol.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I like what i like, what can i do.

Not a problem. If you feel like willing and able to open up and try to expand your horizons more more power to you, but it is easier said than done for everyone of us, so nobody casting the first stone here .
Still the “why do not they make anything new, that breaks new ground that is unlike the games I buy” question is easily answered with “because people would not buy it (enough)”.

The premise of the article is not completely wrong. People crying for something then not buying it is nothing new.The higher the cost of making games the riskier it is to target a niche that may lambast you because of lower than AAAA games production values and yet not limiting themselves to absurdly low prices.

As adamsapple was agreeing with too, new IP trying to break new grounds take the highest risk (“I'm just agreeing with the part that newer IP in general is a more risky prospect than established IP”), but chugged risk does not mean higher reward.

I do not blame people if they become risk adverse and the perceived value of games drops in their mind (where nothing but a small subset of games is allowed to target a $70+ price point)… but this has consequences in the games that are produced and the quality of those attempts too.

 

[Crayon]

People only playing FIFA and fortnight are having fun and spending money. So fuck right off.

 

[Wolves hunt in packs]

Not a problem. If you feel like willing and able to open up and try to expand your horizons more more power to you, but it is easier said than done for everyone of us, so nobody casting the first stone here .
Still the “why do not they make anything new, that breaks new ground that is unlike the games I buy” question is easily answered with “because people would not buy it (enough)”.

The premise of the article is not completely wrong. People crying for something then not buying it is nothing new.The higher the cost of making games the riskier it is to target a niche that may lambast you because of lower than AAAA games production values and yet not limiting themselves to absurdly low prices.

As adamsapple was agreeing with too, new IP trying to break new grounds take the highest risk (“I'm just agreeing with the part that newer IP in general is a more risky prospect than established IP”), but chugged risk does not mean higher reward.

I do not blame people if they become risk adverse and the perceived value of games drops in their mind (where nothing but a small subset of games is allowed to target a $70+ price point)… but this has consequences in the games that are produced and the quality of those attempts too.

I agree, Capcom for example tried it with Kunitsu-Gami Path of the Goddess, not many games in that genre i think, and i admit i didn't even bothered to try it, even when it's on GP, i just know i won't like it, so yeah i get the idea that if people won't try new things then companies won't make them, i would try new things if it's in the genre i like, Indiana Jones and the Great Circle doesn't do something special but we don't have tons of this games and that was well received, i guess i'm open to new game mechanics but won't play games in genre i don't enjoy like strategy games or 2D games.

 

[Fess]

haha I'm laughing in woke developers' faces because I'm not falling for such a weak sales act.

In due time the industry will correct itself. Fitting song, Killswitch Engage - In due time

I think we’re already reaching the turning point, eventually someone with enough respect within the industry will explain that if they keep targeting a minority they’ll just keep selling to a minority. Could take a couple years until new people or new strategies are in but things should improve soon. Let’s just hope they don’t go full mobile Candy Crush on us all to dig themselves out of the hole they’ve been digging themselves into.

 

[Tams]

As a gamer, and therefore a custo.er, I have no obligation to buy or play anything.

So therefore, it is not my fault.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Nah the problem is the people who buy Snoop Dogg/Minaj/Post Malone etc skins in Fortnite or COD…Literal scum

Calm down, or seek help.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Does he realize that it's always been this way? Even during the good times?

 

[MagiusNecros]

If games are worth playing then they will be bought. If they are not then they will be ignored.

So maybe make good games?

 

[Gojiira]

Calm down, or seek help.

Im sorry, if the people who normalised the ridiculous monetisation of games aren’t scum then their dickheads…Get back to CoD or grow a spine

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Im sorry, if the people who normalised the ridiculous monetisation of games aren’t scum then their dickheads

They are neither, again calm down.

 

[Moriarty1889]

Shoving DEI into everything has ruined gaming.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I agree, Capcom for example tried it with Kunitsu-Gami Path of the Goddess, not many games in that genre i think, and i admit i didn't even bothered to try it, even when it's on GP, i just know i won't like it, so yeah i get the idea that if people won't try new things then companies won't make them, i would try new things if it's in the genre i like, Indiana Jones and the Great Circle doesn't do something special but we don't have tons of this games and that was well received, i guess i'm open to new game mechanics but won't play games in genre i don't enjoy like strategy games or 2D games.

The thing is gaming shows you dont have to reinvent the wheel making a Path of the Goddess game, which at face value alone is a quirky Asian art inspired game which is I think one part action game and one part city builder or something. They barely even promoted it. And good luck trying to remember that game name.

Capcom has tons of dormant franchises. Make a new game people are familiar with. Doesn't have to be a carbon copy game from 20 years ago. It can be just the name and setting but reinvented for modern day like Sega did to Shinobi 20 years ago making it into a 3D game instead of a 2D game. Look how hyped up people were for the Onimusha reboot trailer and the clip barely showed anything.

I think sometimes media creators believe they have to go scorched earth with new budgets and titles. Nothing wrong with taking an existing game and improving it. Lots of the top games played are just that.

I think for indie ganes, you got to go quirky and original to get gamer's attention. But for big corpoations with tons of fan favourite IPs, you can appease the masses just making familiar IPs that are better over time.

 

[kevboard]

TLDR
A reader argues that many of the problems in the games industry are caused by gamers not being willing to try new games and insisting on digital over physical purchases.

the obvious issue with this assessment by that reader is that these people aren't gamers.
the time where gamers were the majority of the people playing and buying games is long over.

video games have reached full mainstream. this means the majority of people playing are just casuals that don't see video games as their main hobby and who aren't enthusiast users.

so the issue is that the numbers of potential users developers are targeting are inflated like crazy, and at such high targets you can literally not make games that mainly target enthusiast users.
this means the best case scenario is a game that makes both happy, the casuals and the gamers aka. enthusiasts.
the gamers for the positives word of mounth online, and the casuals for the sales numbers.

only AA and Indy titles can mainly target enthusiasts only, while every massive publisher needs to basically make the equivalent of mainstream 3 chords, zero key change, formulaic pop music in the hopes it will sell amongst an audience of casual players.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Make good games, they sell.

Make bad games, they don’t sell.

Peddle ham-fisted agendas, they fail.

Inflation through the roof so people become more conscious spenders.

Economics 101, retard.

 

[FunkMiller]

If customers are not buying a product, the people responsible for that are the manufacturers of the product.

Everything else is gaslighting bullshit.

This applies to every product in every market.

 

[Saber]

Why its aways the fault of basically every fucking thing except the devs/companies who make uninteresting games in the market?
Thats why when theres someone who agrees with the "I hate gamers" propaganda I can only think they are completelly retards.
The ones who chooses what to buy are the consumers. If they don't buy your product, then thats your failure.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

If customers are not buying a product, the people responsible for that are the manufacturers of the product.

Everything else is gaslighting bullshit.

This applies to every product in every market.

And digital software even has a gimme.

Unlike physical products which require manufacturing, shipping (from overseas too!), inventory and selling it in the old school way so Walmart or Home Depot carry it on their shelves, digital is all about just having it ready for server downloads on e-stores. Sounds way easier to me. A game company can focus people and money on marketing instead of manufacturing.

 

[FunkMiller]

Why its aways the fault of basically every fucking thing except the devs/companies who make uninteresting games in the market?

The gamers are to blame = share price stable

The company is to blame = share price drops

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I'm comfortable just playing older games at this point. I still love games, but "modern" releases are just plagued with any or all of: DEI, bugs, shitty DLC, focus on cinematic quality, rather than gameplay.

I blame publishers and developers. I dream of the good ol days where E3 would be approaching and hype levels were off the charts. This existed well into my adult years. I haven't changed, the industry has.

 

[kiphalfton]

Journalists blaming gamers for decline of gaming...

Their perspective on everything is so warped, and they are clearly out of touch with reality. Throw the whole lot in a mental asylum already.

 

[hyperbertha]

Two things are true: dei is ruining games. Braindead npc players who play only cod or Fortnite is also running games. The article is half right.
Perfectly good games flop all the time. It's not just the woke games flopping. Prey, one of the best games ever made, wasn't a sales success iirc. Most gamers are npc stupid who just wanna play michael bay films. Idiots.