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Reason why I won't live in Japan again

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Deku

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I know lots of people love Japanese culture here, I do as well. I am Japanese and was born in Japan, but my trip back recently solidified all the reasons why I decided to go to school overseas in Canada (I quit a junior high 1st year and transferred out) and finish it here. I plan to make my life in N.A. and probably won't go back to stay.

There's many things to like about the country, and as a westernized Japanese, I'm automatically hot stuff with the girls, but there are just things I can't stand, mainly racism towards foreigners and reverse racism where whites and 'westernized japanese' gets special treatment, higher salaries, girls etc.

The reason that made me snap finally is when I found out today that my old friend from Japan, a Korean-Japanese 3rd generation who was born in Japan, but will never ever ever be a Japanese citizen, killed himself because of a culmination of things.

1) the racist Japanese system excluded him from the school he wanted to go to,

2) his so called Japanese friends all abandoned him when he decided to date another Korean-Japanese (omg, they are going to make a 4th generation korean gaijin) and was proud of his Korean heritage infront of his Japanese friends, who at first thought he was only half Korean (yeah, being half Japanese or lying that you're half japanese can help sometimes with racism)

3) He got 'constructivelly fired' from his job, which he needs to pay the rent, to make room for pure Japanese. He was put in a dead end position and his salary frozen due to 'economic hardship'.

4) The last straw was when he happend to pass by a robbery in Shibuya today and was nothing more than a passing witness. Because he was Korean and was Gaijin and gaijins, especially non white/European/American gaijins are always the criminals, he was arrested and detained. When the police could not get the victim to implicate my friend, they had to release him. But getting 'arrested' meant he missed his shift at work. So his Japanese boss fired him for real.

5) So, he went to his apartment and hung himself.

This sucks. Japan, go visit and enjoy it. If you're White and you're American and European, take advantage of the 'inferiority complex' you'll get from most Japanese. But when the ugly side of Japan finally shows its face, the bank loans you won't get, the rental apartments that are Japanese only, those are a small price to pay for the much harsher treatment most non Japanese Asians get in Japan, even if they pay taxes, and were born in the country and even love Japan like my friend.
 
Mupepe said:
....Dammit, don't make me think twice about moving to Japan.

Seriously, is racism that bad there?
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If you're white, and not from Eastern Europe, you're in the best position to enjoy your stay.

Yeah, eastern european whites are second class caucasians. It's increadible, the kind of race heirarchy they have there. But of course. Koreans and Chinese are near the bottom. Blacks are naturally at the very bottom.
 
Japan has plenty of racism, but it's not as bad as you make out.
There's a system and there's plenty of ways around the system.
I've recently had my housing loan approved at the bank and it's all going through in a week or so. I've also never been turned down for renting an apartment based on my gaijinness.

Sure, I've been the victim of racism on occasion, both positive and negative. But I'm happy with the feeling of security I get here, as well as the best selection of games on the planet ;)

As for your friend, it sucks that he killed himself, it really does. I honestly never understand why anyone feels like that's the right way out, especially when it hurts so many people that are dear to them.

But all countries have their down sides. I don't think I could live in the UK again, and I don't think I'd want to live in the US either. Canada sounds like a good place though.
 
Deku said:
If you're white, and not from Eastern Europe, you're in the best position to enjoy your stay.

Yeah, eastern european whites are second class caucasians. It's increadible, the kind of race heirarchy they have there. But of course. Koreans and Chinese are near the bottom. Blacks are naturally at the very bottom.
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I'm American so maybe I won't have it that bad? Seriously, I'd love to live in Japan. Just working on my Japanese, but that sounded pretty bad.
 
Exactly how English friendly is Japan? I mean obviously a person w/o a good command of the language could go into the country sides, but what of Tokyo? Can an English-Japanese dictionary get by?
 
I don't get it. South Korea and Japan have some crazy feud going on... I remember seeing a story of all of these Korean grade schoolers making a collage of "We Hate Japan" drawings... so bizarre. It's like us and Canada (another one I don't get).
 
Jim Bowie said:
I don't get it. South Korea and Japan have some crazy feud going on... I remember seeing a story of all of these Korean grade schoolers making a collage of "We Hate Japan" drawings... so bizarre. It's like us and Canada (another one I don't get).
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Those grade schoolers were assigned to do that. In that paticular case Japan and SK are contesting over territory surrounding an island that's between them, which also happens to be an undersea oil field as I understand it.
 
Jim Bowie said:
I don't get it. South Korea and Japan have some crazy feud going on... I remember seeing a story of all of these Korean grade schoolers making a collage of "We Hate Japan" drawings... so bizarre. It's like us and Canada (another one I don't get).
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South Koreans have their issues too and the Chinese.　　Mainly I think too many Koreans and Chinese just feed of the victimization complex and blame Japan and　on occasion the Americans, for pretty much everything. In South Korea, they'd probably blame the bad weather on Japan and the Americans.

I'm not saying the other Asian races aren't racist, but Japan is a G8 country. We're supposed to be 1st world、An advanced society. The technology is advanced, but the mindset is about 100 years out of sync.
 
I dunno, this type of racism you describe happens EVERYWHERE except the United States. Maybe France is okay but seriously, this type of thing happens all over the world just with different groups of people getting prefferential treatment (I'm not going to lie, most of the time it's white people getting the prefferential treatment).

America really is the best country in the world. Most progressive, most opportunity for advancement regardless of where you come from.
 
I don't really have anything to add to this topic as i know nothing about it, but I'm very sorry to hear about your friend, thats a sad story :(
 
loxy said:
I dunno, this type of racism you describe happens EVERYWHERE except the United States. Maybe France is okay but seriously, this type of thing happens all over the world just with different groups of people getting prefferential treatment (I'm not going to lie, most of the time it's white people getting the prefferential treatment).

America really is the best country in the world. Most progressive, most opportunity for advancement regardless of where you come from.
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Haha, America is hardly the most progressive.. and is working on that "opportunity" business.
 
Maybe I'm weird, but whenever I've experienced racism in Japan, I can't help but laugh outloud at the racist's small mindedness. I kind of feel sorry for them in a way.
 
Hitokage said:
Those grade schoolers were assigned to do that. In that paticular case Japan and SK are contesting over territory surrounding an island that's between them, which also happens to be an undersea oil field as I understand it.
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there was also that whole occupation thing...

condolences to the OP. i agree that japan is still almost feudal in the way its power structures are set up, and the embedded culture really reflects that. in some ways i think the US stewardship of the country has exacerbated the situation, but that's kind of a half-formed thought...
 
Hitokage said:
Haha, America is hardly the most progressive.. and is working on that "opportunity" business.
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I'm going to assume that you are probably talking about Scandanavia. Is that correct?
 
Damn, that's a sad story. My condolences Deku. I've been to Japan once but I was too young and spend too little time to really notice what you're describing (I'm European). One thing I did notice because it really shocked me, was the Peace Memorial Shrine in Hiroshima. The whole compound/park had lots of little shrines - including one for the Koreans that were forced to work in Japan, but it was just outside the park, on the other side of a river, on the edge of the park :/.

There's a movie that deals with the issue of a young Korean in Japan, called Go from Isao Yukisada. IMDB link. Did anyone see it? I wonder if it's any good/realistic/insightful.
 
Shit. That's so fucked up. I'm real sorry about your friend.

But are you sure the racism is that fucking bad? I mean... My parents are iranian, but I was born in the Netherlands, so I'm Dutch. But I look like iranian, thankfully I look way too cool to be prejudiced as a muslim (and I'm not a muslim). I thought about being a Japanese translator or something. Would I get bad treatment? :/
 
Hitokage said:
I don't even need to go that far. There's Canada which is recognizing gay marriage.
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There's a lot of racism in Canada dude and there's not nearly as much opportunity as in the United States.

Is gay marriage really the only issue to consider when judging how progressive a country is? You'd have to assume that gay marriage will never be allowed in the United States. Not to mention that gay marriage is recognized in some places in the United States (Massachusetts).

The difference between the United States and practically every other country in the world (and why I can say that it's the best country in the world) is that despite it's problems people are working towards fixing them. That's very different from not doing anything about them at all. You really have to live in other countries to appreciate how great the United States is.
 
Offtopic: Yo Ruzbeh, you thinking about studying it in Leiden? My brother did, but he's isn't too enthousiastic about it (though he finished it). He spent 1 1/2 year in Japan, together with some other Dutch students (some with Middle-Eastern/North-African backgrounds) but they didn't really encounter any racism. At some backwater places everyone will stare at you, even when white, at other places nobody really minds. I think it's harder for (South-East) Asians in Japan.
 
So, basically my choices are:

1. United States - Die when someone deicdes they want my shoes and iPod.

2. Japan - Die because I will eventually kill myself.

3. Canada - Eh?

P.S. Sorry about your friend...not for his sake, but for what he's putting you and others who loved him though. Suicide doesn't deserve sympathy.
 
loxy said:
America really is the best country in the world. Most progressive, most opportunity for advancement regardless of where you come from.
Click to expand...

Most gun murder..... hates gays.......

It's hardly the most progressive. Maybe in industry, but I get the feeling you are talking about human rights.
 
Rei_Toei said:
Offtopic: Yo Ruzbeh, you thinking about studying it in Leiden? My brother did, but he's isn't too enthousiastic about it (though he finished it). He spent 1 1/2 year in Japan, together with some other Dutch students (some with Middle-Eastern/North-African backgrounds) but they didn't really encounter any racism. At some backwater places everyone will stare at you, even when white, at other places nobody really minds. I think it's harder for (South-East) Asians in Japan.
Click to expand...
Ok. Thank God. That's good to know. I live in Leiden, by the way. :)
 
loxy said:
I dunno, this type of racism you describe happens EVERYWHERE except the United States. Maybe France is okay but seriously, this type of thing happens all over the world just with different groups of people getting prefferential treatment (I'm not going to lie, most of the time it's white people getting the prefferential treatment).

America really is the best country in the world. Most progressive, most opportunity for advancement regardless of where you come from.
Click to expand...

That first part isn't even remotely true. Racism may happen everywhere, but that doesn't mean that kind of racism does; having been around the better part of the both Americas and Europe, I can safely say that Japan is probably one of the only places I'm aware of where you'd, for example, be denied a loan or laid off because of your race.

As for "best country", that's subjective, but we're certainly not the most progressive on the whole. You can point to Massachusetts if you like, but I can point to 49 other states where gay marriage isn't permitted, and virtually the entire Midwest (aka the Red States) as being anything but progressive on all sorts of issues, gay marriage or not.

Sorry about your loss, Deku. That's a rather rough way to go to boot.
 
I've heard of Japanese doctors refusing to help people because they don't want to deal with foreigners so sometimes people have to travel to other towns/cities in hope of getting someone who speaks English or is willing to treat them.

Anyway. this is horrible... take care dude.
 
Shinoobi: maybe you're being sarcastic here, I dunno. But for obvious reasons, the Chinese, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Korean and the list goes have some reasons to dislike Japanese, and the other way around, as already mentioned, Japanese can be very racistic/xenophobic. The stories some friends told me (Chinese exchange students for example that also went to Japan for 6 or 12 months) are pretty rough. Although I admit it's all second-hand information I've heard it too many times from a whole range of seemingly reasonable people.
 
I've heard that some Japanese people treat other Asians as second-class citizens. But certainly I've never run into any problems myself from all the Japanese people I've met. It sucks to lose your job or be denied a loan over it, but from what I hear and read, younger Japanese people tend to be a little more accepting of other races.

Same kinda holds true for Korea. I'm Chinese Canadian, and I heard it would be difficult to get a job teaching English here, because there's the perception that Asians can't speak English well, but caucasian people can, however, I've had no complaints so far, and if anything, it's actually helped them get more adjusted to me because of my black hair and brown eyes.

To get back to topic though, I'd say it's more older people who hold this view. It's a little hard to let go of the past for them. You gotta remember that the generation before us had to deal with the aftermath of the Asia-Pacific war. My mom freakin hates Japanese people cause they forced her to run away or face slaughter. She's had it in for them ever since.

And to side track a little, from what I heard, people don't mind dating outside their own race. I've heard (and seen I might add) Korean guys chase Japanese girls cause supposedly Korean girls are a little too aggressive and like to lead the relationship too much (Korean girls are treated like babies here sometimes by their bfs) and Japanese guys go after Korean girls cause they like them leading the relationship. But again, this is only what I heard and is definitely a subjective opinion.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your friend... :-<

Sadly, Japanese in general are racist and ignorant about foreign cultures. I am half-Japanese and while I speak close to native American English, my appearance is Asian. I've had my share of good and bad treatments myself.

The golden rule though is, if you look caucasian, then your like 90% set, *especially* if you just piggy back with a Japanese girlfriend (rent a place under her name, etc). Even then, a lot of caucasian foreigners still complain about "bad treatments" but man... they don't realize how well they are treated compared to non-caucasians. The difference is just...abhoring to say the least.

Ah, and if you are black, as long as you say you are from America, your kinda set too. A lot of the guys from Carribeans pull this trick and it works for those who can't tell what a Jamaican sounds like speaking English.

Not the best country to live if you aren't caucasian, but those who remain here for 5-10++ years truly love Japan for what it is - and I respect them for that.
 
I like these stupid questions.. of "how are ....... treated in Japan", like there is a magic answer to every situation.
 
I figure that there are just as many asshats in any country, and you just do your best to avoid them.

That being said, you do bump up against racism in Japan, but not nearly as bad in the cities. I have never been the vicitim of official racism while a resident here, and I just rented an apartment (piggybacking the girlfriend) and got a job with a Japanese company (where I will evetually be able to earn full shain status). Japan has been good to me.

However, what happened to your friend is terrible, and the racism towards Koreans is incredible. Places in Osaka that are known as Korean neighborhoods have significantly lower property values and are usually avoided. It seems most people just want kimchee and that is all the interaction with Korea they are interested in. It is inexcusable, but considering the history and rancor between the two people, understandable. It was huge news when the Emperor made a speech admitting that Korean blood existed in the Imperial line (something long acknowledged by historians). I guess you blame Hideyoshi, Imperialism, and cultural ambivalence for most of the problems.

Foreigners do get profiled by the police, especially Chinese/Koreans. Partially because of the organized crime problem in Tokyo, partially because a good portion of reported crime is illegal immigrant related, and partially because Ishihara is launching a crack down on "undesirable" foreigner illegal immigrants [see: undocumented Chinese/Koreans]. Especially in certain areas of Tokyo where this kinda thing is prominent (Roppongi for instance). Im curious as to why he was questioned by the police. I do not see police indescriminately grabbing people to prove nationality, so I would be a bit wary of that....

Anyways, condolences for your friend.
 
Sorry to hear about your friend :(

This kind of thing happens in a lot of Asian countries, Taiwan being the one I have personal experience with, although it doesn't seem as extreme as in Japan.
 
Very sorry to hear about your friend, my condolences to you Deku.

I had thought that this kind of thing had begun to gradually change though. How do people voice these discriminatory ideas and opinions? Is there much self-realization or any kind of shame that comes with it or is it just blatent everyday normal behavior? Is the discrimination different for the Burakumin or Ainu than foreigners or people of Chinese or Korean descent? Sorry about the multiple questions. :)
 
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