Reddit [verified] User shares NX info: x86 Architecture, Second screen support etc.

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I'm curious as to how close the NX's SoC might be to AMD's Zen APUs. There's precious little concrete information on either, of course, but I'd like to think that Zen is good enough that Nintendo went with x86-64 instead of ARM. Hopefully AMD also has something low enough power for portable use. :/
As good a proposition Zen might be by this time next year (possibly the most performant uarch in its envelope this side of the apple gardern wall), it's not an option for a Holiday'16 product.
 
So... the biggest issue at the moment are software tools.

Or output of info Nintendo is giving to devs. I would like things to change but as we see secrecy still rules. I don't think there should be special groups either especially to more familiar 3rd parties.

King I'm only talking performance envelope. I have no clue about specific details and things could easily change as the last two Wiis have shown.
 
Was referring to port performance . I won't vouch for other aspects of those rumors nor did I. From what I gathered I thought the SDK situation was shit which people are agreeing on.

Thanks for clarifying. That's a colossal problem for Nintendo.
 
On PC graphics cards yes; but on a console AMD probably won't have anything to do with the video output chip.

My assumption is that it would be the motherboard being completely custom with a video output recommended by the GPU. Unless it is cheaper to use other HDMI outputs, I see zero reason why it wouldn't use whatever the current standard is. 4k is basically an expected feature for any platform running a modern gpu that supports it.
 
Or output of info Nintendo is giving to devs. I would like things to change but as we see secrecy still rules. I don't think there should be special groups either especially to more familiar 3rd parties.

King I'm only talking performance envelope. I have no clue about specific details and things could easily change as the last two Wiis have shown.

OK thanks for clarifying.
 
Or output of info Nintendo is giving to devs. I would like things to change but as we see secrecy still rules. I don't think there should be special groups either especially to more familiar 3rd parties.

King I'm only talking performance envelope. I have no clue about specific details and things could easily change as the last two Wiis have shown.

This seems a bit strange to me due to the brand new and modern Developmet Portal v.s. WarioWorld. That alone should make conversations between Nintendo and third parties far easier and snappier than before. At least theorically.
 
What if both systems use the same ARM-based SoC?

NX (Console): Heavily modified Snapdragon 820 delivers 2 TFLOPS or more, runs games at 1080p/60fps with all the bells and whistles.

NX (Handheld): Stock or slightly under-clocked Snapdragon 820 does 400-500 GFLOPS, runs games at 540p/30-60fps effects scaled back or in some cases turned off.
 
PS4 is ~140 watts iirc.

In order for Nintendo to create a more powerful console than PS4 without using polaris and 14nm, they would have to use more CUs, meaning a bigger GPU than PS4 currently has, the power savings of AMD's GPUs in GCN aren't very good over the PS4 variant, not enough to shrink the console to say sub 80 watts. Nintendo has access to 14nm, I don't think they wouldn't use it over the alternative. Remember that Wii U is actually a 75watt TDP console that uses about half that, Nintendo would be making a 150watt TDP casing for their ~80watt console, they have done this for 3+ generations now. I think it is simply easier for them to use 14nm, probably cheaper too, considering they can use a 12-14CU GPU rather than a 20CU or more.

PS4 CUH-1200 (the current model) peaks at 116W. The older one was 146W.

I think that going with ARM/GCN 1.2 and ditching GDDR5 and blu-ray could get them at around 85-95W, which should be ok for them. If they want low power consumption (around 50W) they may settle for 1tflop or so.

Stock or slightly under-clocked Snapdragon 820 does 400-500 GFLOPS

Only on paper, but it can't maintain that in gaming due to massive battery drain and thermal requirements. Around 100-140Gflops should be enough for Wii U-ish graphics at 540p, which would be amazing for a portable.
 
This seems a bit strange to me due to the brand new and modern Developmet Portal v.s. WarioWorld. That alone should make conversations between Nintendo and third parties far easier and snappier than before. At least theorically.

Also seems weird because of the whole vulkin thing, my guess is that Nintendo of Japan is handling the requests and they are too busy / slow with their own internal updates and testing to get back to 3rd parties, a repeat of wii u, though hopefully still noticeably better.
 
I agree that Puma would be a poor choice, but the problem with 14nm is the yields unless Nintendo has stumbled upon or has been hiding a lot of production, or is paying a pricey sum.

Or will be a very limited launch. Demand by scarcity like the amiibos!
 
Nintendo has a few benefits when going to ARM.
-It's power efficient
-Smaller
-Have developed on it before
-Developer friendly
-Works with more form factors

All of these things are more important to Nintendo than whatever benefits come with x86.
 
Also seems weird because of the whole vulkin thing, my guess is that Nintendo of Japan is handling the requests and they are too busy / slow with their own internal updates and testing to get back to 3rd parties, a repeat of wii u, though hopefully still noticeably better.

This isn't an n64 situation where they were holding back into/techniques and being super selective. This is more like WII a few months out and back then SDKs seems a lot better and more spread out as big and small devs were talking at this point. It's pre reveal of things but if this comes out in the next 8 months they are behind to me.

That too I'm hoping it ls a Vulkan variant, makes no sense to use the OpenGL variant they had been nor could it provide the performance they need or want.
 
Haven't been following. Quick question, any indication Nintendo will continue the trend of backcompat?

I will be in day one if this thing can play Wii U games, because then I'll have an instant handful of games I've been wanting to play but don't want to buy into a dead console. I think its a no-brainer, and I hope this isn't the gen they choose to fuck that up.

I mean, I know they didn't do it for N64 to Gamecube, but that was reasonable considering they switched to discs that gen. Ya ya I know NES to SNES too, but Gameboy did backcompat!
 
This isn't an n64 situation where they were holding back into/techniques and being super selective. This is more like WII a few months out and back then SDKs seems a lot better and more spread out as big and small devs were talking at this point. It's pre reveal of things but if this comes out in the next 8 months they are behind to me.

That too I'm hoping it ls a Vulkan variant, makes no sense to use the OpenGL variant they had been nor could it provide the performance they need or want.

What I mean is 3rd parties using older development kits with only Nintendo's newest teams using the latest development kits. As for vulkin, from what I've been hearing, it is an option, opengl was always going to be an option as well, since they are porting at least Zelda (I'd guess)
 
PS4 is ~140 watts iirc.

In order for Nintendo to create a more powerful console than PS4 without using polaris and 14nm, they would have to use more CUs, meaning a bigger GPU than PS4 currently has, the power savings of AMD's GPUs in GCN aren't very good over the PS4 variant, not enough to shrink the console to say sub 80 watts. Nintendo has access to 14nm, I don't think they wouldn't use it over the alternative. Remember that Wii U is actually a 75watt TDP console that uses about half that, Nintendo would be making a 150watt TDP casing for their ~80watt console, they have done this for 3+ generations now. I think it is simply easier for them to use 14nm, probably cheaper too, considering they can use a 12-14CU GPU rather than a 20CU or more.

Performance per watt isn't purely a matter of the process node. You've got architectural improvements to consider (GCN 1.2 being a bit more efficient than PS4's GCN 1.1), potential large power savings by using different memory (GDDR5 doesn't exactly sip power), you could switch to a newer 28nm process (say TSMC's 28HPM or 28HPC+, rather than the 28HP used for PS4/XBO), and finally you could simply use more CUs at a lower clock speed (which will in general use less power than fewer CUs at higher clocks).

Have a look at the R9 Fury X. It achieves substantially higher performance than the R9 290X at pretty much the same power consumption, due to improvements like those listed above. That's not to say that I think NX will be more powerful than PS4, or that Nintendo will necessarily place a large emphasis on power consumption, but if they were determined to, they could probably release a late 2016 console that's noticeably more powerful than PS4 at a similar or lower power draw, while sticking on 28nm.
 
What I mean is 3rd parties using older development kits with only Nintendo's newest teams using the latest development kits. As for vulkin, from what I've been hearing, it is an option, opengl was always going to be an option as well, since they are porting at least Zelda (I'd guess)

We are talking about the same thing or the same area of information. In this case, yes the dream team would have it, but considering nintendo in the past this gonna be super small compared to overall pool of devs that might be interested/curious. They could get a lot better here, though leaks or rumors always push them to be cautious. I say there's no point anymore as gens have proven. Sony has no trouble dong a job except on PS3, though they corrected shit on that. I don't see why a company who wants Sony or MS has can't do the thing they do well without a doubt. They could easily keep more control and really pump out a bit more not a lot more.

Vulkan is gonna have to be used if they want performance there are plenty of big titles that use opengl and the performance is down in them compared to DX11,DX9, and the newer low level apis. Only a new API would give nintendo the kind of performance they really want if they want to help certain 3rd party devs out. I'm sure for reason you mentioned both are a choice, but I want to see or know from devs how much of it Vulkan variant and how easy it is get shit up and running. If this system is anything like cube architecture we can be very happy with devs that want to do stuff, which is really all I can ask.
 
Fuck it, Nintendo is gonna go batshit crazy and bleed money per unit sold.

Core i3 quad core at 2.0Ghz
GTX 960
8GB of DDR4
500GB HDD

$499 US Dollars!
 
What is LCGeek's name at Beyond3D? I used to check the forums there a few years back.

Edit: Sorry LCGeek. I didn't know you were still here. Otherwise, I would have personally addressed you. :D
 
Only on paper, but it can't maintain that in gaming due to massive battery drain and thermal requirements. Around 100-140Gflops should be enough for Wii U-ish graphics at 540p, which would be amazing for a portable.

Don't phones have large high-res screens, GPS and other overhead/background stuff to account for much of the battery drain too? I need to do more research on this matter, heh.

I hope Nintendo is striving for better than Wii U-ish graphics, given the speculation about cross-play and shared libraries. While I'm impressed by what they managed in Mario Kart 8, it would suck if the sequel was hamstrung because of the NX portable's specs.
 
These NX leaks is like interviewing a group of witnesses of a bank robbery and everyone is giving a completely different description of the robber.
 
Performance per watt isn't purely a matter of the process node. You've got architectural improvements to consider (GCN 1.2 being a bit more efficient than PS4's GCN 1.1), potential large power savings by using different memory (GDDR5 doesn't exactly sip power), you could switch to a newer 28nm process (say TSMC's 28HPM or 28HPC+, rather than the 28HP used for PS4/XBO), and finally you could simply use more CUs at a lower clock speed (which will in general use less power than fewer CUs at higher clocks).

Have a look at the R9 Fury X. It achieves substantially higher performance than the R9 290X at pretty much the same power consumption, due to improvements like those listed above. That's not to say that I think NX will be more powerful than PS4, or that Nintendo will necessarily place a large emphasis on power consumption, but if they were determined to, they could probably release a late 2016 console that's noticeably more powerful than PS4 at a similar or lower power draw, while sticking on 28nm.

That is my entire point, Nintendo won't release a console that big and power hungry... That is just not something Nintendo would do, I doubt they would even go above 60 watts to be honest, but if the rumors about it being faster than PS4 is true (indie gamer girl being the one I'm talking about here) then I just don't see it happening without 14nm polaris.
 
They wouldn't be bleeding money if they were charging $499 for that.
I'd pay for that. So fast.

Also, Reddit guy is leaking images now and will slowly reveal more each day.

gQkdf7K.jpg

r3xgIkL.jpg


https://www.reddit.com/r/Nintendo_N...ils_regarding_nx_console_nx_ue4_dev/?sort=new
 
I think some of the expectations here from some Gaffers is way out of logic.

I doubt we will get anything more than 1080p and 60 fps. specially when there is a second screen in the controller.

Edit : First screen support is TV. second Screen support is the screen on the controller
 
I don't like these leaks because sometimes it just feels like we're all being purposefully mislead.

The 3D printed controller was bad enough but it's like these people (on Reddit or otherwise) are just trying to get in on the action since they know we're all desperate and gullible.

Like, what are the images supposed to prove? That the branding will be NEX? Yeah, I can't wait until the actual reveal where it's nothing of the sort.
 
I think some of the expectations here from some Gaffers is way out of logic.

I doubt we will get anything more than 1080p and 60 fps. specially when there is a second screen in the controller.

What? No it doesn't. It supports a second screen, nobody said anything about a second screen being in the controller. The PS4 and XB1 technically support second screens. IIRC the PS3 did too.
 
Fuck it, Nintendo is gonna go batshit crazy and bleed money per unit sold.

Core i3 quad core at 2.0Ghz
GTX 960
8GB of DDR4
500GB HDD

$499 US Dollars!

That would be beastly and above what I was thinking. They don't need an intel I3 either I already mentioned two fx chips with similar performance in games they could easily borrow from, and they aren't even that great though cheap within nitnendo range. 960 is overkill it would be like sticking 7950 in unless the CPU is as beefy as I want they are wasting money cause the cpu would be a bottleneck. DDR4, never nintendo always uses something exotic and is better at latency.

I don't think nintendo needs to do more than 400$ and based on doing the math of some tech it could get near 300, I still doubt it will be 300 or less though.
 
Good, what we really needed...more trees!

Now, a bit more seriously: LCGeek, did you hear anything about the handheld? So far, you've only talked about the home console but it's a spread belief this upcoming Nintendo generation will be more based on a family of devices sharing functions, OS and games (most of them, except for the performance-intensive ones).
 
He possibly took a picture from his phone(so it's untraceable online) and edited it...At least 3D print something ffs
 
What? No it doesn't. It supports a second screen, nobody said anything about a second screen being in the controller. The PS4 and XB1 technically support second screens. IIRC the PS3 did too.

Even the Gamecube did. 8P

After all this stupid leaks hopefully everybody will calm down a little bit and we can focus and the small bits we know and just wait for the official reveal in the not-so-distant-future.

Edit: And now there is that stupid picture. Wtf...
 
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