Reggie Fils-Aime on Xbox One/PS4 lineups: "Meh"

5: God of War Collections, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank and Sly. All of these were priced at 40 euro and all included more than one game.

Again, it is just a dumb argument. I will say well while Wind Waker HD could be overpriced, the reason the Wind Waker HD collection only has one game is because Nintendo only came out with one game thus contradicting that they release Zelda games as frequent as GOW, Uncharted, Killzone, etc. If they came out with three Wind Waker games on Gamecube then I am sure there would be a collection but they didn't.
 
The problem is that there isn't just GTAV on the ps3 this holiday. Just looking at the games you can't get on the Wii U, you've got:

Beyond Two Souls
Puppetteer
Fifa
NBA 2K
NHL
GT
Rain
GTA

I'm sure I'm forgetting some more, but there's tremendous variaty in those titles. The second problem is that Fifa sells more than 10 million a year, GT sells around 8 million or more per iteration, GTA sells around 20 plus million (if I remember correctly), NBA sell around 5 and the same can be said for NHL. These are fucking huge games that Wii U will be missing. And while sales are not everything, they do determine what sort of games people like.

I also don't want to play any of those, even a little bit. But that's not really relevant to what this thread is actually about. The only thing Reggie said in the OP is that the launch titles for the PS4/XBONE do not concern him vs the Wii U's holiday lineup. Not the PS3 holiday lineup, not the Wii U launch lineup, just the 2013 holiday lineup for the three next-generation systems. No more, no less.
 
You have done no homework for me, and I didn't need any done thanks. If I have to repeat myself, then the argument is pointless at this juncture. That's a sad lookin list, kinect titles? Really? Gears of war is very broey, again read what I said very carefully and get back to me when you do :). Well, actually, don't, because I have lost interest at this point. I suspect you'll take this as me conceding on something no doubt :/.

Many of those are the early titles I spoke of before MS made there shift, some are inherited from Rare's very much nintendo developed left overs (before MS made the shift I am talking about. You're hung up on a point I am not even making. But that's enough pointless internet argument for me for awhile. I will say happy typing to you for whatever else you post, I officially do not feel shamed for what I said in any way. Have a solid day internet warrior of homework doing or some such.

Except you keep trying to claim that all microsft mostly produced was grey/brownish shooters or games that catered to that crowd. Utter bullshit. Whether those games interest you or not is beside the point(the fact you think it looks bad I think says more about you then anything else seeing the diverse lineup with some incredible games on it)

The rest I already said a million times I take no issue with, pretty much agree and don't know of anyone who disagrees.

Microsoft money hatted a lot of third parties for content to feed into their largest market but most of microsofts publishing and development dollars then and now went to areas outside of the dudebro demographic. Be it casuals with kinect, or with indie titles, eastern genres, racing, adventures, RPG's, platformers, action or niche titles.
 
Again, it is just a dumb argument. I will say well while Wind Waker HD could be overpriced, the reason the Wind Waker HD collection only has one game is because Nintendo only came out with one game thus contradicting that they release Zelda games as frequent as GOW, Uncharted, Killzone, etc. If they came out with three Wind Waker games on Gamecube then I am sure there would be a collection but they didn't.

They have released three Zelda games including Wind Waker with a acceptable graphics level for a HD remaster. There have absolutely no excuse for not including Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword into a 50€ priced box.
 
Again, it is just a dumb argument. I will say well while Wind Waker HD could be overpriced, the reason the Wind Waker HD collection only has one game is because Nintendo only came out with one game thus contradicting that they release Zelda games as frequent as GOW, Uncharted, Killzone, etc. If they came out with three Wind Waker games on Gamecube then I am sure there would be a collection but they didn't.
What do you mean Nintendo only came out with one game? Wind Waker came out in 2003. Four Swords Adventure came out in 2004. Twilight Princess came out in 2006. They could have bundled all three.

Hell they could have bundled OoT and Master Quest since that was on the Gamecube too.
 
Again, it is just a dumb argument. I will say well while Wind Waker HD could be overpriced, the reason the Wind Waker HD collection only has one game is because Nintendo only came out with one game thus contradicting that they release Zelda games as frequent as GOW, Uncharted, Killzone, etc. If they came out with three Wind Waker games on Gamecube then I am sure there would be a collection but they didn't.
That's some spin you've got there, man. There are plenty of Zelda games that could be included, for example Twilight Princess if you just want to stick to Gamecube Zelda games. And there is no need to have you pay 60 euro for it. Hell, even MS went with 40 euro price tag for Hallo Anniversary.

My whole point was that Sony is definitely not abusing the HD collections model as was suggested in the post I was replying to.
I also don't want to play any of those, even a little bit. But that's not really relevant to what this thread is actually about. The only thing Reggie said in the OP is that the launch titles for the PS4/XBONE do not concern him vs the Wii U's holiday lineup. Not the PS3 holiday lineup, not the Wii U launch lineup, just the 2013 holiday lineup for the three next-generation systems. No more, no less.
You're right it's a bit off topic, but just want to point out that on general public basis even the ps3 line up blows Wii U's out of the water.
 
I only purchase full retail games, I have a universal hatred for all digital gaming and DLC regardless of platform, period. MS happens to be the one that pushed this new paradigm in the console space more so than anyone although now the other are catching up as fleecing the public is good business, so wouldn't ya know it, I would have more examples of games/releases/practices I disapprove of with MS as they happen to have more cases of doing this.

My dislike for digital however is completely and utterly my own personal tastes however, despite being based on quite a bit of reasoned and thoughtful analysis on the topic. I do feel the lack of real ownership of your content and charging people in the way they do is at a disservice to gaming in general.

Maybe I'm "misinterpreting" this model but to me it sounds like the solution I had all the way at the beginning of this gen for all DLC. Instead of realeasing a game like Madden every year you could only do a new Season pack for a lower price the next year. This could work wonders if it's handled correctly since you could have a full retail game( KI is a full retail game in its original form, menaing you pay $20 for a case witht he game and all the content) and just add extra content to it, not in 3 months, but a year later as handle it as "sequel DLC". I don't know this sound like a great substitue for the digital model they have set up now.

I mean DLC has always existed since a longer time ago than with the 360, PC did it all the time with expasion packs. The thing is both MS and Sony adopted this DLC not as expasions, but as nickel and dimming people. So that is why KI sounds like it could work.

IMHO I love digital now more than ever. It was not always like this, but there are a couple of things that have made me warm up to it. specifically in the PC side of things. to me Steam rocks because although the game are digital you never loose ownership or tract of that ownership once you buy it. Also by being digital most games on Steam/PC end up being a lot cheaper and a lot more deals happen all the time, better in price than any used game. The one last thing that really rocks for me is pre-loading games. Yes, I know it's a minor feature, but having the ability to download the game and just wait for a key upon release at 12:01 AM and I'm set. No more Gamestop midnight relases, no more standing in line. If you still prefer actual physical games with these features, then sure I get you it's a personal choice. I just thing this could be the future and it could b e great.

Also I hated that MS bactracked its original model for the XBO because people saw it as MS raping them, taking advantage of them. Although I can't disagree at some level with that I was actually hoping that all they did would lead to cheaper games and a model closer to what the do with Steam. I still hope at least for pre-loading games and buying them for cheaper if it is digital, but for once you can blame Sony for this.
 
What do you mean Nintendo only came out with one game? Wind Waker came out in 2003. Four Swords Adventure came out in 2004. Twilight Princess came out in 2006. They could have bundled all three.

Hell they could have bundled OoT and Master Quest since that was on the Gamecube too.

You have to admit that the Wind Waker HD took far more time and effort than a lot of the sony HD remakes. It is completely redone and has a lot of extra features. My Jak collection looks slightly better same with my GOW collection.
 
You're right it's a bit off topic, but just want to point out that on general public basis even the ps3 line up blows Wii U's out of the water.

If you like "realistic games," sure. Again, some people value pretty different things in their games. PS3 has virtually nothing that interests me this holiday, as a fan of things that are more abstract, colorful, and not grounded in reality. Puppetteer is probably the closest, but I'm not really feelin it. Nintendo games scratch my itch 9 times out of 10.
 
If you like "realistic games," sure. Again, some people value pretty different things in their games. PS3 has virtually nothing that interests me this holiday, as a fan of things that are more abstract, colorful, and not grounded in reality. Puppetteer is probably the closest, but I'm not really feelin it. Nintendo games scratch my itch 9 times out of 10.

Yeah I usually want to have fun instead of having hyper realism. Nintendo generally doesn't let me down.
 
You have to admit that the Wind Waker HD took far more time and effort than a lot of the sony HD remakes. It is completely redone and has a lot of extra features. My Jak collection looks slightly better same with my GOW collection.

No, the Wind Waker HD remake is not completely redone. It´s a HD remake just like any other with a few added blooming effects
 
This doesn't make sense to me. If you like all this stuff coming to PS4/Xbone, it probably includes the multiplats. And many of those were available at WiiU launch at well.

For example, if you are interested in AC4, I don't see how you weren't interested in AC3.
Sure it does. I was all set to buy a number of those games on Wii U but nearly every port ended up with severe technical issues.

While we do not know how things will turn out the multiplatform ps4/xb1 releases should actually be pretty solid.

Of course the PC has the potential to go further and I was willing to accept a bit less with Wii U but they really missed the mark out if the gate. I did purchase Blops 2 on Wii U and was disappointed that it suffered from such severe performance dips.
 
If you like "realistic games," sure. Again, some people value pretty different things in their games. PS3 has virtually nothing that interests me this holiday, as a fan of things that are more abstract, colorful, and not grounded in reality. Puppetteer is probably the closest, but I'm not really feelin it. Nintendo games scratch my itch 9 times out of 10.
Well dude that's cool. You're a Nintendo fan and love all things Nintendo. I'm not gonna go and try to convince you to like other games. Still it's quite funny that you're dismissing Puppetteer straight away and haven't even mentioned Rain. Also Rime should be right up your alley when it comes to PS4 games!
 
No, the Wind Waker HD remake is not completely redone. It´s a HD remake just like any other with a few added blooming effects

It isn't just added bloom effects. Lot's of reworked textures, better light effects, shadows etc. :)

Yes, it's a Hd Remake, but not like many of them out there. Those are actually called HD-ports, but people tend to confure them (This is not aimed at you btw)
 
I+don+t+have+enough+laughing+gifs+to+show+how+hard+_7b9ebbe61d267a3e10c8da3432c965f5.gif
 
Maybe I'm "misinterpreting" this model but to me it sounds like the solution I had all the way at the beginning of this gen for all DLC. Instead of realeasing a game like Madden every year you could only do a new Season pack for a lower price the next year. This could work wonders if it's handled correctly since you could have a full retail game( KI is a full retail game in its original form, menaing you pay $20 for a case witht he game and all the content) and just add extra content to it, not in 3 months, but a year later as handle it as "sequel DLC". I don't know this sound like a great substitue for the digital model they have set up now.

I mean DLC has always existed since a longer time ago than with the 360, PC did it all the time with expasion packs. The thing is both MS and Sony adopted this DLC not as expasions, but as nickel and dimming people. So that is why KI sounds like it could work.

IMHO I love digital now more than ever. It was not always like this, but there are a couple of things that have made me warm up to it. specifically in the PC side of things. to me Steam rocks because although the game are digital you never loose ownership or tract of that ownership once you buy it. Also by being digital most games on Steam/PC end up being a lot cheaper and a lot more deals happen all the time, better in price than any used game. The one last thing that really rocks for me is pre-loading games. Yes, I know it's a minor feature, but having the ability to download the game and just wait for a key upon release at 12:01 AM and I'm set. No more Gamestop midnight relases, no more standing in line. If you still prefer actual physical games with these features, then sure I get you it's a personal choice. I just thing this could be the future and it could b e great.

Also I hated that MS bactracked its original model for the XBO because people saw it as MS raping them, taking advantage of them. Although I can't disagree at some level with that I was actually hoping that all they did would lead to cheaper games and a model closer to what the do with Steam. I still hope at least for pre-loading games and buying them for cheaper if it is digital, but for once you can blame Sony for this.

Digital certainly has its advantages. When done right! Microsofts model was gonna be shit and its why I dropped support for them. They wanted all the supply side benefits of digital without giving any of the consumer benefits. They were locking down their ecosystem and controlling pricing while implementing draconian anti-consumer DRM policies. The only cool idea they had was the game borrowing idea.

PC digital allows me to get games much cheaper then consoles thanks to marketplace competition which means in the long run my initially higher entrance fee into the market(buying a gaming rig) will likely pay off in savings on games. I haven't payed 59.99 for a game in the two years I've had my gaming PC. Honestly not even over $40.

I can also play many of those games on any PC or system I have. Furthermore my digital games can't scratch, deteriorate or break. And unlike consoles my games aren't tied to a piece of console hardware that may not be manufactured in the future to which it will deem my games worthless and unplayable.

It certainly has its drawbacks such as some games being tied to a certain ecosystem or DRM so there are trade offs and negatives.
 
Lol, someone clearly hasn't seen the footage in detail ...

Because it isn't just added bloom effects. Lot's of reworked textures, better light effects, shadows etc. :)

Most remakes have some reworked textures, that is nothing special. Just look at FF X which has some serious improvements not only in texture work but also sound and other things and yet it´s going to cost 40€ for 2 games.
 
If I bought consoles solely based on launch lineups, I'd probably wait. He's right. Both lineups look pretty weak. But That hasn't stopped me before. I'm buying based on the length of the gen and the probably silly belief that both consoles have decent build quality.
 
They have released three Zelda games including Wind Waker with a acceptable graphics level for a HD remaster. There have absolutely no excuse for not including Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword into a 50€ priced box.
Why would Nintendo do HD remasters of games that you can already play on Wii U and are widely available (for ten dollars each at most), especially when Skyward Sword came out not even two years ago? The appeal of Wind Waker HD is that Wii U currently doesn't play GameCube games (and probably never will) and incorporating more modern game design sensibilities (e.g. sailing is far less tedious, the Triforce Quest being revamped).
 
Why would Nintendo do HD remasters of games that you can already play on Wii U and are widely available (for ten dollars each at most), especially when Skyward Sword came out not even two years ago? The appeal of Wind Waker HD is that Wii U currently doesn't play GameCube games (and probably never will) and incorporating more modern game design sensibilities (e.g. sailing is far less tedious, the Triforce Quest being revamped).
That doesn't explain lack of Ocarina of Time Masterquest Edition. Also why is Nintendo pricing the HD port at 60 euro instead of 40?
 
You have to admit that the Wind Waker HD took far more time and effort than a lot of the sony HD remakes. It is completely redone and has a lot of extra features. My Jak collection looks slightly better same with my GOW collection.
It is not "completely redone" and it also doesn't have "a lot" of extra features. It has a new lighting engine and some new textures and is now in HD. The features are incredibly lacking, with just a faster boat upgrade, an edited Triforce piece quest, miiverse posts showing up as messages in bottles at beaches, being able to take pictures and Hero mode from Skyward Sword. They still use the same animation sets and same dungeon layouts, mostly the same controls and it has the same music too. This isn't a lot of work compared to say what they did with Persona 4: Golden or HeartGold/SoulSilver, or Firered/LeafGreen or even OoT3D (as much as I hate admitting it).

I will admit more work was done on Wind Waker than Those Sony ports that are just that, ports. They're upscaled and have some fixes like with the framerate (though Jak is kind of busted). They're fairly lazy but released as bundles at a cheaper price.

Though compared to Square Enix, Sony and Nintendo are both jokes right now with what has been done with Kingdom Hearts 1.5.
 
Most remakes have some reworked textures, that is nothing special. Just look at FF X which has some serious improvements not only in texture work but also sound and other things and yet it´s going to cost 40€ for 2 games.
Yeah the wind waker value proposition is pretty poor.

I'd pay 30 dollars for it. And honestly though that's about what I'd pay for FFX as well. Mostly because I only mildly enjoyed those two games and want to support it to get FF12 remade - the much better and superior mainline final fantasy from last gen.

$50 for wind waker is a bit much though.
 
Why would Nintendo do HD remasters of games that you can already play on Wii U and are widely available (for ten dollars each at most), especially when Skyward Sword came out not even two years ago? The appeal of Wind Waker HD is that Wii U currently doesn't play GameCube games (and probably never will) and incorporating more modern game design sensibilities (e.g. sailing is far less tedious, the Triforce Quest being revamped).

I can only play them in SD which is absolutely not acceptable on a decently sized TV in todays age. So adding them in HD would not only make them playable again but also add the much needed value to a 50€ priced box. I´m not going to spend this much money on a single HD remake, that is beyond ridiculous.
 
Well dude that's cool. You're a Nintendo fan and love all things Nintendo. I'm not gonna go and try to convince you to like other games. Still it's quite funny that you're dismissing Puppetteer straight away and haven't even mentioned Rain. Also Rime should be right up your alley when it comes to PS4 games!

Rain looks kinda boring, but I'll admit that I haven't really looked into it or Puppeteer in any significant way. Rime looks pretty neat, though! There are a few PS4 games I'm interested in, that's one, that one Conan played at E3 that I can't remember the name of, the 2D trippy one where dudes fly around on lines, there was some space shooter that looked kinda neat (saw a chromatic aberration gif of a super bomb), and I'm definitely into FFXV. Those are mostly little indie games or ones that are super far-off, though.

I guess the only point I'm gettin at is that Nintendo knows what their market buys. For a Nintendo machine, adding those games in the PS3 list wouldn't accomplish much. We've seen quite enough evidence to suggest that the kind of people who are big into Nintendo games don't really buy into the realistic games much. Reggie knows that a holiday with two Zeldas, a new mainline Mario, and a new mainline Donkey Kong is gonna play well with the people who buy Nintendo hardware. In comparison, the PS4/XBONE holiday lineups don't have those kind of "heavy hitters."

I don't think Nintendo can ever really escape their "niche," under the assumption that they even want to. Even attempts like with Bayonetta 2 are met with huge hostility. Rather than "oh hey Nintendo's branching out, maybe I'll check their machine out," the response is "STEALING OUR GAMES I'LL NEVER BUY A NINTENDO FISHER PRICE POS." A more "diverse" lineup just.. isn't going to help them. People have long since made up their minds about what Nintendo means, and what games you get by going there. So when it comes to playing strongly to their available market, I think Nintendo's doing a pretty good job this holiday.
 
I have to agree with the Meh statement as nothing on either of those consoles compel me to buy either then again I am not likely to buy a Wii U yet either even if it does have more stuff I want to play this holiday.
 
Digital certainly has its advantages. When done right! Microsofts model was gonna be shit and its why I dropped support for them. They wanted all the supply side benefits of digital without giving any of the consumer benefits. They were locking down their ecosystem and controlling pricing while implementing draconian anti-consumer DRM policies. The only cool idea they had was the game borrowing idea.

PC digital allows me to get games much cheaper then consoles thanks to marketplace competition which means in the long run my initially higher entrance fee into the market(buying a gaming rig) will likely pay off in savings on games. I haven't payed 59.99 for a game in the two years I've had my gaming PC. Honestly not even over $40.

I can also play many of those games on any PC or system I have. Furthermore my digital games can't scratch, deteriorate or break. And unlike consoles my games aren't tied to a piece of console hardware that may not be manufactured in the future to which it will deem my games worthless and unplayable.

It certainly has its drawbacks such as some games being tied to a certain ecosystem or DRM so there are trade offs and negatives.

Well I for one actually wanted to see and experience what MS model was going to be like. I mean sure some of the things like no used games and the tying to the console stuff sounded a bit rought, but some features sure sounded nice. I mean you could lend the game you bought to 10 friends and they could install it and play the game as long as you, the original owner, were not doing it at the same time. This could make gamers unite a buy games sort of like the do the 4 packs on steam. Also there were some restrictions on online and games in general, but you could still play the whole game with out the disk inside the tray.

The thing is I hoped that even if it was a rough service it would lead the way to innovation in the console realm and eventually they could become closer to Steam. Right know they all went back to the same old tired model of digital games at higher prices and used games as high in price as new games etc etc. For all the innovative features the hardware can do I just do see how this old model would work better than trying something new.

And I could see both MS and Sony screwing up at the beginning. I mean not even Steam was as great as it is now when it started. We as gamers could have just complained enough to MS so that it changed its policies, but after the console came out, after we had actually experienced what they wanted to try. Not before by forcing them to change innovative stuff just because Sony was riding the wave of popularity.

I actually kind of hate Sony a bit for playing it TOO careful, for taking the if it's not broken don't fix it to much to heart. See the current model of gaming is not at all fair or good for us the consumer, because consumers are not usually the people that wait 6months to get a game on the bargain bin. A real consumer to them should be the people that go for it from day 1. Basically Sony having fun with MS and making fun of them like a jock only led this gen to be a mirro copy of last gen with new hardware. No innovation in the business model at all and Sony is to blame.
 
You have to admit that the Wind Waker HD took far more time and effort than a lot of the sony HD remakes. It is completely redone and has a lot of extra features. My Jak collection looks slightly better same with my GOW collection.
The Sly Collection looks to have had the same amount of work put in, as they remastered the assets based on the original high quality sources, and made some whole new assets as well, IIRC. And that was across three games.

Whether WWHD merits out deserves the price is subjective, and while Nintendo may think it's worth 60, their sense of value had been wing before -- as evidenced by the 3DS price debacle and the WiiU's glacial sales at its current prices. With the position they're in now, releasing this at a lower price may make it more attractive.
 
Again, it is just a dumb argument. I will say well while Wind Waker HD could be overpriced, the reason the Wind Waker HD collection only has one game is because Nintendo only came out with one game thus contradicting that they release Zelda games as frequent as GOW, Uncharted, Killzone, etc. If they came out with three Wind Waker games on Gamecube then I am sure there would be a collection but they didn't.

Oh really? How come Ocarina didn't come with Majora's Mask then? Direct sequel, built from the same engine, used many of the same assets. No excuse, you know other than the fact that Nintendo wants to charge twice for the guaranteed eventual Majora's Mask HD.
 
I agree. W101, Zelda WW, DKCR 2, SM3DW. I'm excited. It's a stellar line up!!! I look at the PS4/X0 and don't see a single thing worth playing.........except for Killer Instinct, but that game isn't even complete yet.
 
Keep those blinders on, Nintendo.



I'd prefer if VC was an Android/iOS app anyway, at least then I'd have my games tied to a single account.

Edit: that press release is the exact same crap they've been saying since launch, just with new game titles. The strategy obviously isn't working.
 
Well I for one actually wanted to see and experience what MS model was going to be like. I mean sure some of the things like no used games and the tying to the console stuff sounded a bit rought, but some features sure sounded nice. I mean you could lend the game you bought to 10 friends and they could install it and play the game as long as you, the original owner, were not doing it at the same time. This could make gamers unite a buy games sort of like the do the 4 packs on steam. Also there were some restrictions on online and games in general, but you could still play the whole game with out the disk inside the tray.

The thing is I hoped that even if it was a rough service it would lead the way to innovation in the console realm and eventually they could become closer to Steam. Right know they all went back to the same old tired model of digital games at higher prices and used games as high in price as new games etc etc. For all the innovative features the hardware can do I just do see how this old model would work better than trying something new.

And I could see both MS and Sony screwing up at the beginning. I mean not even Steam was as great as it is now when it started. We as gamers could have just complained enough to MS so that it changed its policies, but after the console came out, after we had actually experienced what they wanted to try. Not before by forcing them to change innovative stuff just because Sony was riding the wave of popularity.

I actually kind of hate Sony a bit for playing it TOO careful, for taking the if it's not broken don't fix it to much to heart. See the current model of gaming is not at all fair or good for us the consumer, because consumers are not usually the people that wait 6months to get a game on the bargain bin. A real consumer to them should be the people that go for it from day 1. Basically Sony having fun with MS and making fun of them like a jock only led this gen to be a mirro copy of last gen with new hardware. No innovation in the business model at all and Sony is to blame.

I don't dismiss the draconian DRM stuff so lightly. It truly was an assault on gamers rights. Requiring online check ins basically guaranteed your games had a limited shelf life of however long Microsoft decided to keep servers active for the console. Furthermore what makes steam great is competition. That's what brings down prices. That and a business model that prays on after-initial-release sales by getting consumers to impulse buy at discounted prices.

Microsofts version aimed to be digital delivery with retail pricing structures. There was nothing really innovative about it outside of it screwing consumers. Without the ability to trade in games and no competition to foster more consumer friendly pricing through its digital store we the consumer were beholden to however Microsoft felt they should price something. In fact by eliminating used games and indicating that digital releases were going to remain 59.99 Microsoft was actually raising costs for many consumers who were consumers that traded in old games.

Their were maybe one or two neat features xbone was introducing(some in response to initial backlash) but the overall picture was grim and the overall package for consumers was regressive.


What happened to Microsoft recently is exactly what needed to happen. They were cocky, getting lazy and overreaching. If they started out gen 8 as the console leader those issues would only compound in magnitude and any complaints would be dismissed and taken much less seriously until sales dropped. Meaningful structural changes would have been harder to implement after the fact and the incentive to do so would have been lower. No, what happened to Microsoft and the timing of it is fairly perfect. They feel truly threatened and that is going to initiate reactions that will only benefit the consumer as long as the consumer holds them accountable.
 
Except maybe Killzone Shadow Fall the Lineups really are 'meh', at least for me, others may think differently of course.
 
While this doesn’t really have anything to do with Killzone: Shadow Fall, we did want to let you know that Shuhei Yoshida, President of Sony Worldwide Studios, acknowledged Reggie’s comments about the PS4′s launch titles by tweeting, “It’s near impossible to dislike Reggie #meh :D .
 
I also don't want to play any of those, even a little bit. But that's not really relevant to what this thread is actually about. The only thing Reggie said in the OP is that the launch titles for the PS4/XBONE do not concern him vs the Wii U's holiday lineup. Not the PS3 holiday lineup, not the Wii U launch lineup, just the 2013 holiday lineup for the three next-generation systems. No more, no less.

The WiiU will not outsell the PS4 nor the Xbone this holiday season. Even speaking from the American perspective. No shot.

And if you don't want to play Puppeteer, you're a bad person. This isn't negotiable. It's a fact.

They are both coming out this fall.

Wind Waker already looks glorious on Dolphin. And first person mode is WEIRD!
 
I'm buying a PS4 solely for Battlefield 4 at this time. So, yeah, with Donkey Kong, Mario, Zelda, Sonic Lost World, and Wii Party U the Wii U's holiday lineup is far more appealing to me than the Xbone/PS4's lineup.

I'm sure Sony will eventually put out stuff I'm interested in, and I'm sure there will be some indie/downloadable games I'll pick up in the launch window, but for me the Wii U had a better launch lineup than either of the big consoles with NSMBU, Nintendo Land, and ZombiU.
 
I don't dismiss the draconian DRM stuff so lightly. It truly was an assault on gamers rights. Requiring online check ins basically guaranteed your games had a limited shelf life of however long Microsoft decided to keep servers active for the console. Furthermore what makes steam great is competition. That's what brings down prices. That and a business model that prays on after-initial-release sales by getting consumers to impulse buy at discounted prices.

Microsofts version aimed to be digital delivery with retail pricing structures. There was nothing really innovative about it outside of it screwing consumers. Without the ability to trade in games and no competition to foster more consumer friendly pricing through its digital store we the consumer were beholden to however Microsoft felt they should price something. In fact by eliminating used games and indicating that digital releases were going to remain 59.99 Microsoft was actually raising costs for many consumers who were consumers that traded in old games.

Their were maybe one or two neat features xbone was introducing(some in response to initial backlash) but the overall picture was grim and the overall package for consumers was regressive.


What happened to Microsoft recently is exactly what needed to happen. They were cocky, getting lazy and overreaching. If they started out gen 8 as the console leader those issues would only compound in magnitude and any complaints would be dismissed and taken much less seriously until sales dropped. Meaningful structural changes would have been harder to implement after the fact and the incentive to do so would have been lower. No, what happened to Microsoft and the timing of it is fairly perfect. They feel truly threatened and that is going to initiate reactions that will only benefit the consumer as long as the consumer holds them accountable.

But I truly don't see it really benefittin the consumer in the long run since the business model has stayed exactly the same. 60+ dollars game that are tradeable for a really small fraction of the initial cost to be sold at almost the same base price. And sure some gamers tend to go and buy used stuff, but those gamers really don't help or contribute to the business since with used games the developers don't get a cent of their money back. It's too bad a couple of generations back the prices became bigger and this made gamers to become cheap. Because you can't argue that gamers have become the cheapest of consumers and IMO you can't justify the industry with consumers that only buy the games a year later when it is dirt cheap. That doesn't and should never factor in to the decision because that would mean gamers like me, that support developers on day 1 if I like and want their game are not part of the picture.

I sure see how that initial MS strategy could be set out to screw us up, but the frenzy of hate that accompanied it was totally blown out of proportion and I would bet my left nut that about 70% or more of the people making fun of/complaing are those types of cheap gamers that would have never have bought the system on launch day, maybe not even at all.

The thing is that us consumers could have used the way MS introduced this stuff as a way to make them change it for the better, not just remove completely. The constant hate and bashing in all media outlets led to Ms caving in into Sony's stragey of screwing the gamer the old fashioned way, because they may look liek the good guy, but they just rode the wave and gave us what we think we want. I know this new model was not neccesarily good, but the actual model is not good at also. Looking over all the fun Sony had at E3 and GC with their jabs at MS, they have done nothing to innovate in the business side of things. Hell they even made PS+ possibly a mandatory service!

IMO what would have been best would be for MS to stick to their guns until the actual release and then they could have changed what was already implemented into a better thought system. Nothing is perfect in its first iteration, not even Steam, but it was worse of them to back off completely. Hell the MS model lent intself for cheaper games since one copy could be played in one way or another in 10 different XBO; friends could join in to buy a 60 game in a /40/30/30 scheme that would have one player keeping the copy and the other playing their "family" connected versions. This and other innovation sounded to me better than what is in place and if for some reason we as a gaming community decided it actually sucked and was unfair after we ACTUALLY TRIED IT, then we could rise up and get these changes up. We eat up all the Sony promises nowadays, but we don;t even give a decent chance at MS. Next Gen it will reverse again.

Even if you don't know it or see it, even STEAM has some sort of draconian DRM stuff, you have to actually be online at least once to get to download/play/register your game. It hasn't been a problem there. I just mean MS and the community could have reached an acceptable compromise without resorting to a dated model. A model that does NOTHING for me an actual contributor to the industry as it is meant, no disrespect to others. Because living off used games only makes it a problem. I also always thought this draconian DRM would lead to cheaper prices, better online sales, and best of all preloading vs Gamestopmidnightrelease shit.

You see PC have ALWAYS had this draconian DRM that people are dreading so much in XBO and it hasn't stopped them, sure the competitive prices are there, but they could have eventually landed on XBL since i don't remember Steam being the big hit it is right now when it started back in the day. Just a thought, innovation vs complacency.
 
But I truly don't see it really benefittin the consumer in the long run since the business model has stayed exactly the same. 60+ dollars game that are tradeable for a really small fraction of the initial cost to be sold at almost the same base price. And sure some gamers tend to go and buy used stuff, but those gamers really don't help or contribute to the business since with used games the developers don't get a cent of their money back. It's too bad a couple of generations back the prices became bigger and this made gamers to become cheap. Because you can't argue that gamers have become the cheapest of consumers and IMO you can't justify the industry with consumers that only buy the games a year later when it is dirt cheap. That doesn't and should never factor in to the descicion because that would mean gamers like me, that support developers on day 1 if I like and want their game.

I sure see how that initial MS strategy could be set out to screw us up, but the frenzy of hate that accompanied it was totally blown out of proportion and I would bet my left nut that about 70% or more of the people making fun of/complaing are those types of cheap games that would have never have bought the system on launch day, maybe not even at all.

The thing is that us consumers could have used the way MS introduced this stuff as a way to make them change it for the better, not just remove it at all. The constant hate and bashing in all media outlets led to Ms caving in into Sony stragey of screwing the gamer the old fashioned way. I know this new model was not neccesarily good, but the actual model is not good at all. Looking over all the fun Sony had at E3 and GC with their jabs at MS, they have done nothing to innovate in the business side of things. Hell they even made PS+ possibly a mandatory service!

IMO what would have been best would be for MS to stick to their guns until the actual release and they the could have changed that already implemented and better thought system. Nothing is perfect in its first iteration, but it was worse of them to back off completely. Hell the MS model lent intself for cheaper games since one copy could be played in one way or another in 10 different XBO friends could join in to buy a 60 game in a /40/30/30 scheme that would have one player keeping the copy and the other playing their "family" conencted versions. This and other innovation sounded to me better than what is in place and if for some reason we as a gaming community decided it actually sucked and was unfair whe we ACTUALLY TRIED IT, then we could rise up and get these changes up.

For instance even if you don't know it or see it eve STEAM has some sort of draconian DRM stuff, you have to actually be online at least once to get to download/play/register your game. It hasn't been a problem there. I just mean MS and the community could have reached an acceptable compromise without resorting to a dated model. A model that does NOTHING for me an actual contributor to the industry as it is meant. Because living of used games only makes it a problem. I also always thought this draconian DRM would lead to cheaper prices, better online sales, and best of all preloading vs GAmestopmidnight shit. YOu see PC have this draconian DRM that people are dreading so much in XBO.

What positives did Microsoft actually bring to the table with their original online policy with Xbox one? Game sharing? That seems to be your sticking point. Well you know how many people I can share my 360/ps3/ps4 games with? Unlimited.

As for making noise after they got your money. Good luck with that. Again, if people were silent and xbone outsold ps4 2 to 1 Microsoft would of had no incentive to make consumer friendly changes and lots of pressure not to. Similar to the Xbox live paywall.

The DRM measures of steam pale in comparison to what Microsoft was asking. And remember steam is not the platform, it is a distributor. Always online was platform required. I had no opt out but to opt out of the purchase. I join the military I'm fucked with my xbone. Internet goes down I can't play. I fall on hard times and can't afford Internet and cable anymore, no more gaming. I can play pc games offline. Steam games offline. I can buy pc games from other companies besides valve. It's a significant difference.

Microsoft very plainly stated major games would remain 59.99 digitally and closed off to third party sellers. Basically saying none of the savings of digital would be passed to the consumer and no competition. I haven't even gotten into the kinect issues yet and where that was heading.

Microsoft had more consumer friendly means to try and discourage used games sales or increase digital distribution. They chose not to. They could of easily tried a policy of physical and digital but added discounts to digital to encourage adoption that would of evened out revenue wise for all involved compared to physical copies. Maybe add extra achievements or something similar to steam trading cards. things that were consumer friendly. Instead they overreached and tried to take more from the hands that fed them and the hand pulled away. Wisely so. You put too much trust in Microsoft and console companies and I see no history that suggests you should, especially with Microsoft.
 
I can't find a single PS4 or Xbone game that interests me (at least within the launch window), but I'm all over Nintendo's fall lineup.

Then IMO you are clearly a Nintendo gamer and even on the biggest of fall lineups you would still choose Nintendo over any Sony/MS games. Am I right or wrong?

Also what exactly in WiiU fall lineup is so great? I'm getting ALTTP 2 for 3DS, W101 later next month and what else is there? I may get either MArio 3D world(not felling it wanted a galaxy esque game) or Donkey Kong( I'm still paying on the 3DS and this game lends itself to 3DS better since I didn;t care about the Wii version, although offscreen play will help). Not a really good fall IMO, but too each his own.

For me the XBo launch has some awesome surprises that I did not expect and games from series I actually love and look liek the versions of the series I actually love( KI and DR3)
 
What positives did Microsoft actually bring to the table with their original online policy with Xbox one? Game sharing? That seems to be your sticking point. Well you know how many people I can share my 360/ps3/ps4 games with? Unlimited.

As for making noise after they got your money. Good luck with that. Again, if people were silent and xbone outsold ps4 2 to 1 Microsoft would of had no incentive to make consumer friendly changes and lots of pressure not to. Similar to the Xbox live paywall.

The DRM measures of steam pale in comparison to what Microsoft was asking. And remember steam is not the platform, it is a distributor. Always online was platform required. I had no opt out but to opt out of the purchase. I join the military I'm fucked with my xbone. Internet goes down I can't play. I fall on hard times and can't afford Internet and cable anymore, no more gaming. Microsoft very plainly stated major games would remain 59.99 digitally. Basically saying none of the savings of digital would be passed to the consumer.

Microsoft had more consumer friendly means to try and discourage used games sales or increase digital distribution. They chose not to. They could of easily tried a policy of physical and digital but added discounts to digital to encourage adoption that would of evened out revenue wise for all involved compared to physical copies. Instead they overreached and tried to take more from the hands that fed them and the hand pulled away. Wisely so. You put too much trust in microsft and corporations and I see no history that suggests you should.

Well to me game sharing was not just being able to give a physical copy of the disk, but one gamer can play without even having the disk while the other do. A 60 dollar game would go down to 30 if two friends buy it. Because I don't actually see people renting their games to friends and with the online conenctivity of most you can;t get through without an online pass so that was a positive.

Also the ability to play a game without even having the disk inside would lead to easily being able to play 2 games almost at once. Also they could have expanded on this. Just as you hate and are skeptic on Ms you could actually believe they could be making some good changes to the industry, even if its one small change.

Always online was not a thing. It was first that it had to authenticate once eery 24 hours which is really not a bad thing since you are probably online once or everytime you are on your console. And even then they removed this feature which in turn led to the removal of gaming without disk which to me seemed more convenient than "forcing me" to connect at least once.And the militrary excuse sure is old. You are not going to the military and be gaming that much. Still they removed that feature fast which was one of the more cringe worthy ones. The prices would have been forced to go down. Remember when I said Steam was not all that from day 1, well that means prices where the standard premium price of the time until the platform became a thing.

You say I put too much trust, but you put to little. Sure to each his own, but I actually felt if people actually looked at things in a less hateful way they could have seen the posibilities of innovation like this.Like I say and keep saying not even Steam was gold from day 1. Things take time. I really saw Ms doing positive stuff with the way the are handling KI, so maybe just maybe if given the chance they could have turned things around. I myself argue for the lack of ANY innovation and would have gladly taken the risk with MS on the possibility that we could have a positive outcome in the end. Because you are saying this to me as if it was all set in stone with no change in site and I can guarantee you that would have not been the case.

Also Sony has not spoken at all about their supposed promises of streamed backward compatibility and other features. They have shown videos sure, but MS showed videos of kinect too and look how that came out. I just don't get why Sony is getting such a free pass for doing so little. I mean if they have online BC would I still have to pay to play a game like Dark Souls 2 that comes out next year? Or by having a copy of the PS3 game, even if it can't paly on ps3 they can make a feature were the games you have can be recognized and they would let you play that game you own free on their other service? Why isn't that a real posibiltiy. Why don't people question Sony more?

ALso just out of curiosity would you be getting an XBO on launch or anytime soon after? I for one will get both PS4 and XBO day 1, so I feel my concerns or complaints are more valid than those from people that will wait for a price drop or other such event. I mean by then all policies could have changed. Sony could have failed on their promises and MS could have surprised us. It could happen haha
 
Well to me game sharing was not just being able to give a physical copy of the disk, but one gamer can play without even having the disk while the other do. A 60 dollar game would go down to 30 if two friends buy it. Because I don't actually see people renting their games to friends and with the online conenctivity of most you can;t get through without an online pass so that was a positive.

Also the ability to play a game without even having the disk inside would lead to easily being able to play 2 games almost at once. Also they could have expanded on this. Just as you hate and are skeptic on Ms you could actually believe they could be making some good changes to the industry, even if its one small change.

Always online was not a thing. It was first that it had to authenticate once eery 24 hours which is really not a bad thing since you are probably online once or everytime you are on your console. And even then they removed this feature which in turn led to the removal of gaming without disk which to me seemed more convenient than "forcing me" to connect at least once.And the militrary excuse sure is old. You are not going to the military and be gaming that much. Still they removed that feature fast which was one of the more cringe worthy ones. The prices would have been forced to go down. Remember when I said Steam was not all that from day 1, well that means prices where the standard premium price of the time until the platform became a thing.

You say I put too much trust, but you put to little. Sure to each his own, but I actually felt if people actually looked at things in a less hateful way they could have seen the posibilities of innovation like this.Like I say and keep saying not even Steam was gold from day 1. Things take time. I really saw Ms doing positive stuff with the way the are handling KI, so maybe just maybe if given the chance they could have turned things around. I myself argue for the lack of ANY innovation and would have gladly taken the risk with MS on the possibility that we could have a positive outcome in the end. Because you are saying this to me as if it was all set in stone with no change in site and I can guarantee you that would have not been the case.

Also Sony has not spoken at all about their supposed promises of streamed backward compatibility and other features. They have shown videos sure, but MS showed videos of kinect too and look how that came out. I just don't get why Sony is getting such a free pass for doing so little. I mean if they have online BC would I still have to pay to play a game like Dark Souls 2 that comes out next year? Or by having a copy of the PS3 game, even if it can't paly on ps3 they can make a feature were the games you have can be recognized and they would let you play that game you own free on their other service? Why isn't that a real posibiltiy. Why don't people question Sony more?

ALso just out of curiosity would you be getting an XBO on launch or anytime soon after? I for one will get both PS4 and XBO day 1, so I feel my concerns or complaints are more valid than those from people that will wait for a price drop or other such event. I mean by then all policies could have changed. Sony could have failed on their promises and MS could have surprised us. It could happen haha

I can go in with a friend and buy games too. It's the same thing. My friend could only play that game when I'm not and vice versa. Perhaps Microsoft's method is a little more convenient but the cost was too high and there was nothing preventing Microsoft from retaining that feature after their change, except greed and publisher pressure.

I might not be military but offshore workers or rural consumers with little or no Internet. Not everyone has steady broadband yet unfortunately. Digital gaming isn't gone, online check ins and monitoring are.

Again give me reasons to trust Microsoft? This is the company that took what was once considered free - online play - and put it behind a paywall. Pushed DLC in all of its games and fostered and encouraged it for publishers to Nickle and dime consumers. Keeps digital copies of games on the 360 often times above the price of retail versions. Intentionally puts features like Netflix and HBOgo and nflnetwork behind the paywall to sap consumers money.

Nothing, I mean nothing they have done with the 360 and the early xbone design suggests consumer friendly focus. It's how can we get more money out of existing services and add new services that cost the consumer additional money.

I have a ps3, 360, PC and a wii. I planned on grabbing an xbone first and a ps4 as well or later and a wiiU maybe someday. I may still get a xbone but as of now I am only getting a ps4. Xbone has some compelling games but between the early policies, the price, the power gap and lack of exclusives so far I'm waiting. My complaints, comments and observations are just as valid as yours as is someone who isn't buying any of them or all of them. I don't base my decisions on what-if's(what if Microsoft suddenly became a super consumer friendly company after a generation of nickle and diming!) I base it on the evidence at hand and past actions and those things combined do not paint a pretty picture for Microsoft.

EDIT: it's funny how two pages ago I had someone basically thinking I was a Microsoft shill for defending their first party output and publishing and now I have someone thinking I'm a Microsoft hater for laying into them for their anti-consumer practices.
 
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