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[RoadHazard]

"at a mainstream level" it's in your own quote lol

The Quest 2 is the most mainstream VR headset on the planet.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The Quest 2 is the most mainstream VR headset on the planet.

What does the Quest 2 have to do with "you are the controller" style motion controls or precision tracking rings etc.

You're confusing a device having something with what it's known for. People don't think of Quest 2 and think it of it's grand motion controls lol.

The quote is clear

I'm surprised no other manufacturer (other than eye-tracking) has though about motion based VR yet for headsets at a mainstream level.

Notice I said other than eye-tracking, because everyone and their dog is trying to add some form of eye tacking in upcoming VR headsets, and the feature is being heavily promoted as a big deal, mainstream knowledge even among the casuals disinterested.

This is not true for motion controls with VR, controller-free.

 

[SentientStone]

You know, Ellie, we really are Astro Bots.

 

[RoadHazard]

What does the Quest 2 have to do with "you are the controller" style motion controls or precision tracking rings etc.

You're confusing a device having something with what it's known for. People don't think of Quest 2 and think it of it's grand motion controls lol.

The quote is clear


Notice I said other than eye-tracking, because everyone and their dog is trying to add some form of eye tacking in upcoming VR headsets, and the feature is being heavily promoted as a big deal, mainstream knowledge even among the casuals disinterested.

This is not true for motion controls with VR, controller-free.

The Quest 2 is mainstream and has really good hand tracking. It's one of the two ways you can control the main interface (it automatically uses hand tracking if you're not using a controller), although it's not used in most games for many reasons.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The Quest 2 is mainstream

So just going to skip over my post and point, ok.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

That's means I can control everything with my stick ?
Oh, ok, I see better why this is called a "joy"stick now !

Sorry.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Another Stadia

Normies will buy it because it will be marketed well.

 

[SteelCurtain 59]

I mean that's the ideal future, but I have my doubts Apple will be able to actually achieve controller-less VR in any way that's actually conducive to quality gaming

 

[hlm666]

the time it takes to read the gesture, decipher it and give you an input command, takes too long.

This is plain wrong, hand tracked input in VR is already a thing without the issues you mention.

 

[Crayon]

Doesn't matter for games. You need buttons anyhow.

 

[WhamBamThankYouMaam]

If true, that’s gonna put a dent in those stock values.

 

[mckmas8808]

Another Stadia

100% this! Steve Jobs is rolling over in his grave right now.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The morning consult data makes the reaction in this thread hilarious in hindsight,

Looks like many consumers don't want controllers at all.

 

[CobraAB]

No it won't. It won't be turning me into anything, I'm not ever using that shit.

Good for you!

 

[midnightAI]

The morning consult data makes the reaction in this thread hilarious in hindsight,

Looks like many consumers don't want controllers at all.

For AR, absolutely, using hands is the most natural thing, for VR gaming, definitely not, for majority of games controllers (including wheels and flight sticks) will be required. So depends on use as to which is required.

 

[Buggy Loop]

For AR, absolutely, using hands is the most natural thing, for VR gaming, definitely not, for majority of games controllers (including wheels and flight sticks) will be required. So depends on use as to which is required.

Take DCS for example, nobody expects to fly the plane without HOTAS. But if removing your hands from HOTAS would detect your hands for all the switches in the cockpit, it would be a godsend.
Even little details like this helps immersion!




There's no such thing as too many features in VR

Having to find a keyboard/mouse/switch while you have a VR headset to toggle switches is painful.

 

[ABnormal]

https://www.laptopmag.com/news/apple-vr-headset-may-turn-you-into-the-controller-heres-how



Kinect was the solution for VR being mainstream the whole time .

But seriously, I'm surprised no other manufacturer (other than eye-tracking) has though about motion based VR yet for headsets at a mainstream level. The novelty of touchless VR as if you were in a sci-fi movie, even if it doesn't work very well, is a selling point on it's own.

Being able to reach out and open an app, or slide around screens or data around is basically something out of Fifth Element, Minority or Demolition Man.

Of course we'll have to wait and see if that ends up being cool in execution.

That's until you try it yourself concretely and realize that motion control is far too slow and

Take a simple FPS game, for example. You just command it with your body (maybe mimicking a gun with your hand and fingers): now, if you have to simply fire your gun, what you do? Do you "click" your finger like you would press a trigger? Ad if so, how wide has to be the finger movement to be registered as a fire input? If it's too wide, it's tiresome and slow. If it's short, you will continuously trigger fire just casually moving your fingers. That's just an example out of may others, and it can be solved in different ways, but it adds a nrw problem that has to be solved. And anyway, no movement would be able to be so quick like the pressing of a button, not without creating many errors. Also, all the haptics and satisfacting recoils from them would be lost, loosing one of the layers of sensations that make the experience more enjoyable and help to keep it more grounded.
It would be good for some things (especially with a wireless headset), but too limiting for others. I would never want it, at least until some brain user interface will be able to command from our will and let us experience sensations directly driven by the game outputs.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

That's until you try it yourself concretely and realize that motion control is far too slow and

Take a simple FPS game,

Was there supposed to be text after "and"?

That's until you try it yourself concretely and realize that motion control is far too slow and

Take a simple FPS game, for example. You just command it with your body (maybe mimicking a gun with your hand and fingers): now, if you have to simply fire your gun, what you do? Do you "click" your finger like you would press a trigger? Ad if so, how wide has to be the finger movement to be registered as a fire input? If it's too wide, it's tiresome and slow. If it's short, you will continuously trigger fire just casually moving your fingers. That's just an example out of may others, and it can be solved in different ways, but it adds a nrw problem that has to be solved. And anyway, no movement would be able to be so quick like the pressing of a button, not without creating many errors. Also, all the haptics and satisfacting recoils from them would be lost, loosing one of the layers of sensations that make the experience more enjoyable and help to keep it more grounded.
It would be good for some things (especially with a wireless headset), but too limiting for others. I would never want it, at least until some brain user interface will be able to command from our will and let us experience sensations directly driven by the game outputs.

You're reasoning is logical, but the reason why I think many consumers don't want controllers is because they want 90s sci-fi movie VR, they don't want just a general immersive helmet.

As the chart indicates, they want wireless, low weight, high-end image and video, in a less conspicuous form, with motion controls.

The general audience may even consider wearing gloves or Apple is working on rings to put around your finger for precision for this to work. They aren't thinking about what you brought up because in their minds, by having a controller trigger do that, then what's the point over VR over a regular controller?

That's their mindset, so they want the touch and motion movement because that's how they see VR tech, they see that as the future and have been looking at VR that way since the old sci-fi movies. Even if it's not practical.

 

[Raonak]

motion controls always sounds fun until you actually have to use it.
There's a reason why other headsets havent used it even though they already have the ir sensors to do it.

It's probably gonna be neat for casual games, but good luck having to do anything else. especially if precision or productivity is required.
(which from the price tag is what apple is targeting first?)

 

[Secret of Evolution]

Quest 2 has had this for a while now.


It even has games with hand tracking, vape pen, and smoke cloud tracking.

Eh it will be a bit different if an entire UI system uses hand gestures etc.

 

[midnightAI]

Take DCS for example, nobody expects to fly the plane without HOTAS. But if removing your hands from HOTAS would detect your hands for all the switches in the cockpit, it would be a godsend.
Even little details like this helps immersion!




There's no such thing as too many features in VR

Having to find a keyboard/mouse/switch while you have a VR headset to toggle switches is painful.

When I said definitely not for majority of VR gaming, I meant hand tracking only, there is definite benefits to both obviously.
For AR though it's almost the opposite, I think hand tracking only is the best way to use it as it's one less barrier (of course for certain tasks some form of input method would be preferential such as the Apple pencil)

 

[ABnormal]

Was there supposed to be text after "and"?



You're reasoning is logical, but the reason why I think many consumers don't want controllers is because they want 90s sci-fi movie VR, they don't want just a general immersive helmet.

As the chart indicates, they want wireless, low weight, high-end image and video, in a less conspicuous form, with motion controls.

The general audience may even consider wearing gloves or Apple is working on rings to put around your finger for precision for this to work. They aren't thinking about what you brought up because in their minds, by having a controller trigger do that, then what's the point over VR over a regular controller?

That's their mindset, so they want the touch and motion movement because that's how they see VR tech, they see that as the future and have been looking at VR that way since the old sci-fi movies. Even if it's not practical.

... and inaccurate (not as tracking, but as readability thereshold).

The point is that the average consumer just puts some fantasy answer on a survey, but without any concrete reflection on reality. If they would try what they naively imagine in a concrete situation, they would quickly realize it's not what they imagined. They imagine to be able to control things like inputs would have some sort of mind control fidelity ("I want to do this, and things go accordingly"), but that would not be the case. Luckily developers and producers don't develop and produce something just because some superficial fancy: they clearly test prototypes before, and do what is possible.
Consumers imagine many things, but usually they are not feasible and not even really funny. It's just rare that someone really takes some time to think about feasibility and about medium to long term implications and entertainment.
The real, major obstacle of VR anyway, is mition sickness. The other aspects are secondary.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Eh it will be a bit different if an entire UI system uses hand gestures etc.