Support NeoGAF

[Alligatorjandro]

Republicans are evil

 

[MetalGearZed]

Republicans are evil

and they barely try to hide it is the mind-boggiling part

 

[thepotatoman]

I always knew that the American healthcare system is one of the most corrupt systems in the world, but still this information blew me away. You pay over 600(!) dollars for health insurance every month? That is absolutely insane.

I know the hospitals charge massive amounts if you get sick, but why do people allow them to get away with it? It's not like those prices are in anyway related to the actual costs of the treatment.

EDIT: quick Google search gave an estimate for ACL surgery in the U.S. without insurance anywhere from 20k to 50k. Unbelievable if that's true. Even if you go to a private hospital here and don't have any insurance it's like 5k. Highway robbery.

Well, at least that's only if you're in your 50s.

If you're in your 30s you only have to pay the low low price of $300 a month. If do ever actually need to use it all, you'll still have to pay around $7,000 on top of that, but at least that's not $50k like you point out.

 

[Laevateinn]

 

[h1nch]

Republicans are evil

Obligatory

 

[SinCityAssassin]

So wait, they voted to actually talk about it now among the party instead of just pushing out bad bills?

 

[DasPenguin]

Well, at least that's only if you're in your 50s.

If you're in your 30s you only have to pay the low low price of $300 a month. If do ever actually need to use it all, you'll still have to pay around $7,000 on top of that, but at least that's not $50k like you point out.

Wait... what? If you pay 300 or 600 per month or whatever, you still have to pay on top of that for the surgery? What kind of insurance is that?

 

[Omadahl]

Damn. That's a nice Shining Force reference. But seriously, McCain can burn in Hades.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Obamacare has flaws, you won't find many people, Obama included, who will deny that. The solution to those flaws is not to axe it in order to give the rich and a segment of corporations a tax break.

You can't fix a collection of bad ideas that originated within the minds of some in the GOP. The foundation of Obamacare rests on beliefs that don't hold up to scrutiny. If giving the rich and corporations a break is the goal, then the US can achieve that by producing an efficient health care system that covers every citizen and delivers the best quality in virtually every respect. People who make top $ in the country will be extremely grateful to the US gov't for its help.

 

[Pie and Beans]

America's highest levels of government and power: decisions made by a narcissist beset with obvious senility and another old guy who has brain cancer. USA! USA! S-M-R-T!

 

[LegendofJoe]

Wait... what? If you pay 300 or 600 per month or whatever, you still have to pay on top of that for the surgery? What kind of insurance is that?

It's American insurance:

 

[sikkinixx]

Not really a shocker. Republicans are terrible people but they aren't (as) hugely ineffective as Democrats are.

 

[DietRob]

God damnit. I hope they all lose their jobs. Then we will be in a constant groundhog day of repealing and replacing each other's bills.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Except this was one of the worst possible outcomes. This debate is bad because we don't know what's being passed through without a thorough hearing, bipartisan report, CBO score, etc. There's a lot of shady shit that happens in the floor debate.

This was one of the worst possible outcomes?

 

[Oemenia]

and they barely try to hide it is the mind-boggiling part

Given Hillary's complete destruction of the Dems presence, the GOP can now do their shit and not even have to hide behind slogans.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Not really a shocker. Republicans are terrible people but they aren't (as) hugely ineffective as Democrats are.

Yea, they're so hugely effective they haven't passed a single piece of major legislation this year, or repealed Obamacare. Whereas last time democrats had the presidency/house/senate they were very effective legislatively and passed multiple pieces.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Is Collins and Murkowski the only GOP senators with a spine in this party?

 

[NastyBook]

This doubles as Republican health care policy.

This is spectacular.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

and they barely try to hide it is the mind-boggiling part

Well, they keep getting rewarded for it.

 

[Ludovico]

Is Collins and Murkowski the only GOP senators with a spine in this party?

Don't believe they did this out of good will, it's all been calculated. These are the two that need to look like they're actually trying, but the game is still the game.

 

[NandoGip]

Don't believe they did this out of good will, it's all been calculated. These are the two that need to look like they're actually trying, but the game is still the game.

Yeah pretty much. Everything is coordinated behind the scenes

 

[John Rabbit]

As a non-American I'll admit it sounds like something out of a dystopian book to me. What happens if you happen to break a bone? What if you get appendicitis, or kidney stones, or a stomach flu? Do women not see a gynaecologist every few months? Do older men not have their prostate checked? What about dentist visits? Do y'all really just have to sit and pray to God that nothing in your body ever malfunctions?

What happens if you happen to break a bone?

Hopefully I can drive myself or be driven to a hospital to avoid the ambulance fees. Also, medical bills.

What if you get appendicitis, or kidney stones, or a stomach flu?

Doctor visit w/ co-pay and medical bills, doctor visit w/ co-pay and medical bills*, pharmacy visit for OTC medication and hopefully it blows over.

*For instance, I thought I had kidney stones about 3 years ago, turned out to be nothing but in the process of getting an ultrasound and x-rays done it was discovered I did have a gall stone. The bill from the radiologist was $127.

Do women not see a gynaecologist every few months?

No. "Well woman" exams are recommended yearly and hopefully you have insurance that covers it.

Do older men not have their prostate checked?

Not as regularly as they probably should because that's at least a co-pay (which can be $40-60 or higher) per visit.

What about dentist visits?

My dental insurance is something like $10 a month and isn't bad. Check-ups/cleanings are covered. I paid around $80 to have two cavities filled last year. Pretty sure I get partial coverage on whitening too.

Do y'all really just have to sit and pray to God that nothing in your body ever malfunctions?

Almost any health-related issue that goes beyond a pharmacy visit for OTC medication is basically an unwanted experience for Americans. Mostly because of the potential costs involved (as well as potential for lost wages in taking the time to go to the doctor).

 

[WarioFan63]

So wait, they voted to actually talk about it now among the party instead of just pushing out bad bills?

Yeah, they voted to talk about a ~mystery~ bill so they could wind up with something that hopefully more than 2 Republicans hate.

 

[NastyBook]

They can all burn in hell

Now this is something I can get behind.

 

[TurnipFritters]

Wait... what? If you pay 300 or 600 per month or whatever, you still have to pay on top of that for the surgery? What kind of insurance is that?

Um how do you expect them to make a profit if they provide the service you pay them for?

 

[boiled goose]

My Obamacare isn't saving me money at this point, as its roughly the same price as other options out there. When Obamacare began, in that first year, it was great for me. Now its horribly overpriced. I'm willing to take my chances with whatever plan the Republicans come up with because if its worse than Obamacare well, its not much of a loss.

Please educate yourself on what Republicans are proposing. It won't just get rid of obamacare, but jeopardize the entire insurance market.

It will be higher premiums for less coverage.

Obamacare is flawed. But get rid of mandate and coverage provisions and you essentially create a death spiral

 

[Just_myles]

Context is important in this. Even when the ACA was enacted there were people like me were negatively effective and ended up paying more. ACA is still a good thing for those who don't have insurance and not a lot of money to cover it . The bronze plans are fairly reasonable at a few hundred dollars a month. However, the deductibles are insane(for context my deductible is 2500 dollars).

My opinion is that we have in this country is not "real" healthcare. It's literally insurance and we are paying these insane insurance rates.

Now what needs to happen(forgive me for pontificating as I know everyone has said this) is that we need to separate the two of these.

Healthcare should cover:

• Regular doctor visit - these are typically annual and some cases bi-annual if there is a pre-existing condition/
  
• Common sickeness or "light injuries"- these are cold, flu, a cut requiring stitches, immunization, sinus infections, sprang ankle... small things of that sort.
  

Insurance should cover

• things that normally don't happen - such as severe injuries from accidents. Or major illnesses. Remember people are not cars.

I think culturally we as a society need to do a better job with the sick and our elderly. It always amazes me to see my in laws from Japan have a much much better healthcare system for their elderly when the kids can't take care of the parents.

I also think hospitals need to do a better job with patient care. Too many times have been bounced around between specialist only to tell me the same information. Each visit is a copay of 75 dollars. It's really insane and not sustainable for the poor and middle class.

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

Look at the bright side. If they go through all the steps and actually repeal Obamacare, and eventually more and more people die, it'll actually end up fixing a lot of problems:

1) Lower stress from population density
2) Less pollution from fewer people polluting
3) Fewer old people and sick people draining government resources
4) Slower drain of natural resources from there being fewer people

Maybe this is all a genius plan to remedy a bunch of problems all in one fell swoop. Republicans are amazing.

 

[DragoonKain]

Overheard two people the other day when out and about talking about the healthcare thing. This is basically how the conversation went:

"Everyone is bitching about losing medicaid, half the people in this country abuse it anyway. All those [insert slur for black americans here] and [insert slur for hispanic americans here] sit at home all day, don't do shit, and expect people to pay for their coverage. Go out and get a job and stop being lazy, fuck them I hope they do die"

"yeah, and poor people have the best insurance too. I know some girl who is a cashier, supports two kids and doesn't have to pay for anything."

"Why should I use my tax dollars on these moochers who don't even belong in the country? Go back to where you came from, I got kids to feed."

I was so tempted to interrupt, but I wasn't gonna bother. I can see some senators feeling the exact same way as these people.

 

[Shadybiz]

Wait... what? If you pay 300 or 600 per month or whatever, you still have to pay on top of that for the surgery? What kind of insurance is that?

Yes. The per month amount is the "premium," you pay that no matter what. The $7k on top of that which was referenced was the "deductible," which you would have to pay for the actual surgery, and after you pay that, the insurance pays the rest.

Many employer-sponsored plans have an "out of pocket" limit, which means that once you pay a certain amount for the year (NOT including premiums), you don't pay any more for the rest of the year. This comes in handy for people like a coworker of mine. His wife has to have a procedure done every week, that costs $10k per treatment (so over a half-million dollars per year). Our "out of pocket" limit is about $6,000, so he pays that $6,000 in the first week of the year, and then doesn't have to pay a cent more (but STILL has to pay the premium each month). However, not everyone has that safety net...if you want to call it that.

...It's fucked...and it's the way we do things here.

 

[Foffy]

Look at the bright side. If they go through all the steps and actually repeal Obamacare, and eventually more and more people die, it'll actually end up fixing a lot of problems:

1) Lower stress from population density
2) Less pollution from fewer people polluting
3) Fewer old people and sick people draining government resources
4) Slower drain of natural resources from there being fewer people

Maybe this is all a genius plan to remedy a bunch of problems all in one fell swoop. Republicans are amazing.

It kills their own voter base.

They're not smart.

They need the foolish so they get ideas normalized.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

lol, McCain fights brain cancer to show up to work and take away health insurance.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

This was one of the worst possible outcomes?

It's not as bad as a full on repeal or the awful Senate bill as it stands now. But the floor debate from the motion to proceed was still a bad outcome as opposed to letting the whole repeal and place thing being gone for the time being.

 

[Dartastic]

Yes. The per month amount is the "premium," you pay that no matter what. The $7k on top of that which was referenced was the "deductible," which you would have to pay for the actual surgery, and after you pay that, the insurance pays the rest.

Many employer-sponsored plans have an "out of pocket" limit, which means that once you pay a certain amount for the year (NOT including premiums), you don't pay any more for the rest of the year. This comes in handy for people like a coworker of mine. His wife has to have a procedure done every week, that costs $10k per treatment (so over a half-million dollars per year). Our "out of pocket" limit is about $6,000, so he pays that $6,000 in the first week of the year, and then doesn't have to pay a cent more (but STILL has to pay the premium each month). However, not everyone has that safety net...if you want to call it that.

...It's fucked...and it's the way we do things here.

I recently got diagnosed with sleep apnea. I went through all the tests and everything, spending cash out of my own pocket each time to get doctors visits and whatnot. When I finished and was diagnosed, they said I'd need to pay $1500 for a CPAP because I had not met my deductible, which, conveniently, was $1500. I haven't purchased my machine yet, and I'm not sure when I will because that's a lot of money. That's our health care system! Super cool, huh?

 

[DragoonKain]

Yes. The per month amount is the "premium," you pay that no matter what. The $7k on top of that which was referenced was the "deductible," which you would have to pay for the actual surgery, and after you pay that, the insurance pays the rest.

Many employer-sponsored plans have an "out of pocket" limit, which means that once you pay a certain amount for the year (NOT including premiums), you don't pay any more for the rest of the year. This comes in handy for people like a coworker of mine. His wife has to have a procedure done every week, that costs $10k per treatment (so over a half-million dollars per year). Our "out of pocket" limit is about $6,000, so he pays that $6,000 in the first week of the year, and then doesn't have to pay a cent more (but STILL has to pay the premium each month). However, not everyone has that safety net...if you want to call it that.

...It's fucked...and it's the way we do things here.

High premiums and low deductibles, or lower premiums and high deductibles are the name of the game.

The whole system is a complete joke. Obviously Obamacare is better than the GOP proposed plans but we are a long long ways away from any semblance of a great healthcare system. As long as the industry looks at sick people as a means to make money, it'll be hard to change, and greed doesn't just go away.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I recently got diagnosed with sleep apnea. I went through all the tests and everything, spending cash out of my own pocket each time to get doctors visits and whatnot. When I finished and was diagnosed, they said I'd need to pay $1500 for a CPAP because I had not met my deductible, which, conveniently, was $1500. I haven't purchased my machine yet, and I'm not sure when I will because that's a lot of money. That's our health care system! Super cool, huh?

Sleep apnea will do a lot of damage to your cardiovascular system over time. Save as long as you have to in order to get the machine.

 

[NullPointer]

I recently got diagnosed with sleep apnea. I went through all the tests and everything, spending cash out of my own pocket each time to get doctors visits and whatnot. When I finished and was diagnosed, they said I'd need to pay $1500 for a CPAP because I had not met my deductible, which, conveniently, was $1500. I haven't purchased my machine yet, and I'm not sure when I will because that's a lot of money. That's our health care system! Super cool, huh?

It is awfully convenient that anything I have done costs as much as my deductible too. Awfully fucking convenient.

 

[neurosisxeno]

I'm curious to see what gets thrown in when the amendments start getting added. No way McConnell isn't buying a couple votes with some bullshit pet programs.

 

[kirblar]

Context is important in this. Even when the ACA was enacted there were people like me were negatively effective and ended up paying more. ACA is still a good thing for those who don't have insurance and not a lot of money to cover it . The bronze plans are fairly reasonable at a few hundred dollars a month. However, the deductibles are insane(for context my deductible is 2500 dollars).

My opinion is that we have in this country is not "real" healthcare. It's literally insurance and we are paying these insane insurance rates.

Now what needs to happen(forgive me for pontificating as I know everyone has said this) is that we need to separate the two of these.

Healthcare should cover:

• Regular doctor visit - these are typically annual and some cases bi-annual if there is a pre-existing condition/
  
• Common sickeness or "light injuries"- these are cold, flu, a cut requiring stitches, immunization, sinus infections, sprang ankle... small things of that sort.
  

Insurance should cover

• things that normally don't happen - such as severe injuries from accidents. Or major illnesses. Remember people are not cars.

I think culturally we as a society need to do a better job with the sick and our elderly. It always amazes me to see my in laws from Japan have a much much better healthcare system for their elderly when the kids can't take care of the parents.

I also think hospitals need to do a better job with patient care. Too many times have been bounced around between specialist only to tell me the same information. Each visit is a copay of 75 dollars. It's really insane and not sustainable for the poor and middle class.

Health. Care. Is. Insurance.

The most important part of health coverage is the catastrophic care part!

This is what you and others don't understand - your regular check ups and maintenance medications- they're not what costs the most money in our system - it's when you get in a car accident and require round the clock medical care for a month.

The other part is important as well, but you can't have one without the other- but people consistently don't want to pay for the risk management aspect because people are awful at judging risk.

 

[John Rabbit]

Look at the bright side. If they go through all the steps and actually repeal Obamacare, and eventually more and more people die, it'll actually end up fixing a lot of problems:

1) Lower stress from population density
2) Less pollution from fewer people polluting
3) Fewer old people and sick people draining government resources
4) Slower drain of natural resources from there being fewer people

Maybe this is all a genius plan to remedy a bunch of problems all in one fell swoop. Republicans are amazing.

I keep referring to the GOP platform as 'slow-motion genocide' and people normally kind of give me a light chuckle.

It's happening less and less though.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Health. Care. Is. Insurance.

The most important part of health coverage is the catastrophic care part!

This is what you and others don't understand - your regular check ups and maintenance medications- they're not what costs the most money in our system - it's when you get in a car accident and require round the clock medical care for a month.

The other part is important as well, but you can't have one without the other- but people consistently don't want to pay for the risk management aspect because people are awful at judging risk.

Actually Insurance is how you pay for health care. It's just a middle man who take money from a lot of people, pays out for those who are sick/injured, and shaved off some profit off the top.

 

[kirblar]

Actually Insurance is how you pay for health care. It's just a middle man who take money from a lot of people, pays out for those who are sick/injured, and shaved off some profit off the top.

Yes, that's how it works. Whether it's done privately, publicly, or by a combination, that is how you make health care work.

Without that middle-man, you're left paying for 100% of your own bills, which is the very thing we're trying to stop!

 

[Dartastic]

Sleep apnea will do a lot of damage to your cardiovascular system over time. Save as long as you have to in order to get the machine.

I know. I'm 32, and I'm not obese. I'm a little overweight, but nothing insane. I know I need to save up and get one.

It is awfully convenient that anything I have done costs as much as my deductible too. Awfully fucking convenient.

Right? It's fucking stupid as hell. Meanwhile, I want to get it outside of my insurance it's way cheaper. Like, $900 as opposed to $1500. I'm going to save up and get one out of pocket because I really, really should, but it's still a crock of shit.

 

[Sianos]

Old man with brain cancer heroically risks his life days after receiving a government funded operation for a cross-country trip...






to make sure he can participate in taking away healthcare from 32 million people.

What a hero.

 

[Shake Appeal]

I know the hospitals charge massive amounts if you get sick, but why do people allow them to get away with it? It's not like those prices are in anyway related to the actual costs of the treatment.

Because if you let the government set the prices, the next step is the gulag!

 

[leroidys]

Correct me if I am wrong, but even Democrats want to change some things about the ACA, don't they? Todays vote really was just about that, continue talking about changes. It isn't any more likely to repeal ACA now than it was yesterday, GOP simply doesn't have the numbers. Some in the senate want to get rid of it, some want to fix it. They can't get those two sides to vote yes on the same thing - except to vote to continue talking. Nothing was lost today.

No, this is absolute 100% bullshit, and it's a shame it's at the top of the page. This is to move a specific Republican repeal plan to a vote. This is not to "start talking about a bill". Educate yourself.

 

[Particle Physicist]

I always knew that the American healthcare system is one of the most corrupt systems in the world, but still this information blew me away. You pay over 600(!) dollars for health insurance every month? That is absolutely insane.

I know the hospitals charge massive amounts if you get sick, but why do people allow them to get away with it? It's not like those prices are in anyway related to the actual costs of the treatment.

EDIT: quick Google search gave an estimate for ACL surgery in the U.S. without insurance anywhere from 20k to 50k. Unbelievable if that's true. Even if you go to a private hospital here and don't have any insurance it's like 5k. Highway robbery.

The costs are actually basically set by insurance companies. Many hospitals have special funds for people without insurance, so while the initial bill is that high, if the patient is aware and speaks with someone in the hospital they can usually lower their bills significantly. It is still way higher in other countries though, but this is a giant system issue and not just the hospitals

 

[titiklabingapat]

Fuck McCain. Any sympathy he garnered from me from the brain cancer diagnosis is all gone. I won't say anything else, mostly unpleasant, because it might get me banned.

 

[Fox Mulder]

.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

No, this is absolute 100% bullshit, and it's a shame it's at the top of the page. This is to move a specific Republican repeal plan to a vote. This is not to "start talking about a bill". Educate yourself.

Aren't there multiple bills and amendments being brought forward? None of them are what I would consider good options but to state that "a specific Republican repeal plan" is being brought up to a vote is 100% bullshit unless something changes.