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Retailers adjusting online prices based on location and perceived income (WSJ)

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Korey

Member
http://online.wsj.com/article_email...89391813881534-lMyQjAxMTAyMDIwMzEyNDMyWj.html

It was the same Swingline stapler, on the same Staples.com website. But for Kim Wamble, the price was $15.79, while the price on Trude Frizzell's screen, just a few miles away, was $14.29.

A key difference: where Staples seemed to think they were located.

A Wall Street Journal investigation found that the Staples Inc. website displays different prices to people after estimating their locations. More than that, Staples appeared to consider the person's distance from a rival brick-and-mortar store, either OfficeMax Inc. or Office Depot Inc. If rival stores were within 20 miles or so, Staples.com usually showed a discounted price.

"How can they get away with that?" said Ms. Frizzell, who works in Bergheim, Texas.

In what appears to be an unintended side effect of Staples' pricing methods—likely a function of retail competition with its rivals—the Journal's testing also showed that areas that tended to see the discounted prices had a higher average income than areas that tended to see higher prices.

Presented with the Journal's findings, Staples acknowledged that it varies its online and in-store prices by geography because of "a variety of factors" including "costs of doing business."

For years, the Internet, with its promise of quick comparison shopping, has granted people a certain power over retailers. At the click of a button, shoppers could find a better deal elsewhere, no travel required.

But the idea of an unbiased, impersonal Internet is fast giving way to an online world that, in reality, is increasingly tailored and targeted. Websites are adopting techniques to glean information about visitors to their sites, in real time, and then deliver different versions of the Web to different people. Prices change, products get swapped out, wording is modified, and there is little way for the typical website user to spot it when it happens.

The Journal identified several companies, including Staples, Discover Financial Services, Rosetta Stone Inc. and Home Depot Inc., that were consistently adjusting prices and displaying different product offers based on a range of characteristics that could be discovered about the user. Office Depot, for example, told the Journal that it uses "customers' browsing history and geolocation" to vary the offers and products it displays to a visitor to its site.

Offering different prices to different people is legal, with a few exceptions for race-based discrimination and other sensitive situations. Several companies pointed out that their online price-tweaking simply mirrors the real world. Regular shops routinely adjust their prices to account for local demand, competition, store location and so on. Nobody is surprised if, say, a gallon of gas is cheaper at the same chain, one town over.

But price-changing online isn't popular among shoppers. Some 76% of American adults have said it would bother them to find out that other people paid a lower price for the same product, according to the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania.

"I think it's very discriminatory," said Ms. Wamble, an insurance account manager in Boerne, Texas, who priced the Swingline stapler for the Journal this month. She was just 10 miles or so down the road from Ms. Frizzell, but she saw higher prices on the Staples website than Ms. Frizzell did for all five products tested. Items tested included a pack of Bic pens, a case of orange masking tape, a set of crimped-end mailing tubes and a big safe.

It remains unclear precisely what formula Staples used to set online prices. Staples declined to answer detailed questions about the findings. It told the Journal that "in-store and online prices do vary by geography due to a variety of factors, including rent, labor, distribution and other costs of doing business."

It is possible that Staples' online-pricing formula uses other factors that the Journal didn't identify. The Journal tested to see whether price was tied to different characteristics including population, local income, proximity to a Staples store, race and other demographic factors. Statistically speaking, by far the strongest correlation involved the distance to a rival's store from the center of a ZIP Code. That single factor appeared to explain upward of 90% of the pricing pattern.

What economists call price discrimination—when companies offer different prices to different people based on their perceived willingness to pay—is commonplace and can be beneficial. Movie theaters give senior-citizen discounts. One traveler's willingness to pay top dollar for an airplane seat might mean other people will pay less.

In other cases, though, shoppers can be the loser. That same airline might easily just pocket the big spender's extra money and leave other prices unchanged.

Of course, not all price differences are instances of price discrimination. Prices driven down by competition wouldn't generally be considered discriminatory, for example.

Basing online prices on geography can make sense for various reasons, from shipping costs to local popularity of a particular item. Some retailers might naturally cluster in specific areas as well—a prosperous suburb, say—boosting the competitive pressure to discount.

But using geography as a pricing tool can also reinforce patterns that e-commerce had promised to erase: prices that are higher in areas with less competition, including rural or poor areas. It diminishes the Internet's role as an equalizer.

...

In 2000, Amazon.com Inc. infuriated many customers when it sold DVDs to different people for different prices. Amazon called it merely a test and ultimately refunded the price difference to people who paid more.

...

It is difficult for online shoppers to know why, or even if, they are being offered different deals from other people. Many sites switch prices at lightning speed in response to competitors' offerings and other factors, a practice known as "dynamic pricing." Other sites test different prices but do so without regard to the buyer's characteristics.

...

Home Depot's website offered price variations that appeared to be based on the nearest brick-and-mortar store as well. A 250-foot spool of electrical wiring fell into six pricing groups, including $70.80 in Ashtabula, Ohio; $72.45 in Erie, Pa.; $75.98 in Olean, N.Y and $77.87 in Monticello, N.Y.

The company said it uses "IP address," a number assigned to devices that connect to the Internet, to try to match users to the closest store and align online prices accordingly.

...

The differences found on the Staples website presented a complex pricing scheme. The Journal simulated visits to Staples.com from all of the more than 42,000 U.S. ZIP Codes, testing the price of a Swingline stapler 20 times in each. In addition, the Journal tested more than 1,000 different products in 10 selected ZIP Codes, 10 times in each location.

The Journal saw as many as three different prices for individual items. How frequently a simulated visitor saw low and high prices appeared to be tied to the person's ZIP Code. Testing suggested that Staples tries to deduce people's ZIP Codes by looking at their computer's IP address. This can be accurate, but isn't foolproof.

In the Journal's tests, ZIP Codes whose center was farther than 20 miles from a Staples competitor saw higher prices 67% of the time. By contrast, ZIP Codes within 20 miles of a rival saw the high price least often, only 12% of the time.

Staples.com showed higher prices most often—86% of the time—when the ZIP Code actually had a brick-and-mortar Staples store in it, but was also far from a competitor's store. In calculating these percentages, the Journal excluded New York City and used the more than 29,000 "standard" ZIP Codes in the 50 states and District of Columbia. This meant things like ZIP Codes with only post-office boxes weren't counted.

...

New York City, too, appeared to be a special case. Tests of Staples.com using ZIP Codes in the boroughs of the Bronx, Manhattan and Staten Island consistently saw higher prices, while Brooklyn and Queens saw almost only the discounted prices. This despite the fact that all parts of New York City look to be within 20 miles of a Staples competitor, according to the websites.


http://www.theverge.com/2012/12/24/...nline-prices-depending-on-income-and-location

Retailers such as Staples are modifying the prices displayed on their websites depending on the shopper’s location. In an investigation, The Wall Street Journal discovered that Staples is specifically adjusting item pricing for different people according to their distance from a rival’s store. If an Office Depot or OfficeMax is within a 20 mile radius, for example, customers will see discounted prices.

Store location doesn't seem to be the only determining factor, as prices even fluctuated between different New York City boroughs despite the presence of competitors. The Bronx, Manhattan, and Staten Island all regularly saw higher pricing on Staples’ website, while Brooklyn and Queens almost always saw discounted prices.

...

When asked about the price fluctuations, Staples attributed the differences to "a variety of factors, including rent, labor, distribution and other costs of doing business," but declined to comment on the income discrepancy.


This totally makes sense from a business point of view, but I don't like it. I agree with this line:

"But using geography as a pricing tool can also reinforce patterns that e-commerce had promised to erase: prices that are higher in areas with less competition, including rural or poor areas. It diminishes the Internet's role as an equalizer."
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Supermarkets already do this with store goods.
 

Gintamen

Member
Different prices for online retailers? Maybe the mayan apocalypse has truly come, just in a very different way than anyone could predict. I hope this may never come to germany.

Supermarkets already do this with store goods.
And likely already always did. The price difference is unbelieavable when comparing my city compared to my brother's.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
I wonder if there's any way to turn this into a lawsuit. Frame it as discrimination? This seems very anti-consumer. I think a large part of it comes down to if you draw a line between each individual store and the entity that represents the entire chain.
 
As someone who worked at an independent photocopy store when Staples moved in down the street, I've been the recipient of this. They knocked their pricing down substantially vs stores in nearby cities to squeeze us out; effectively waiting for us to die.
 
Was it Orbitz that did something similar? Higher prices for Mac users or something?

If I remember correctly it was that they showed them the more expensive flights and hotels first rather than the cheapest ones.

I don't think they were charging them more for the same flight.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
Only way to fight this is refuse to use sites that do this or spoof a different location IP address to get the lower price.

That said if you're shopping on staples.com you clearly don't care about being overcharged anyways.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
Really? wtf

Makes complete sense even if it seems mean spirited.

Someone who pays the extra money for a mac over a PC would most likely have more disposable income/not be price sensitive.

It's the electronic version of a car dealership/jewelry store showing me the cheap shit if I walk in wearing gym clothes or showing me top end stuff if I came in wearing a well tailored suit.
 
Supermarkets already do this with store goods.

Supermarkets do this but the reason is different.

Property tax rates, lease rates, etc. differ for brick and mortar stores from one town to another and thus brick and mortar stores have to adjust their prices to factor in the cost. It's not that they charge more in a wealthier neighborhood because they believe they can, it's that it likely costs more for them to operate in said neighborhood due to higher operational costs.

When you buy from Staples online, the product doesn't ship from a local Staples (maybe I'm wrong on this) but from a regional warehouse direct to your door so price differences based on where you live -- excluding shipping and sales tax -- are bogus.
 
Makes complete sense even if it seems mean spirited.

Someone who pays the extra money for a mac over a PC would most likely have more disposable income/not be price sensitive.

It's the electronic version of a car dealership/jewelry store showing me the cheap shit if I walk in wearing gym clothes or showing me top end stuff if I came in wearing a well tailored suit.
I was gonna be upset about the first paragraph but the second one is pc users = sweatpants so I'm gonna let it slide.
 

Particle Physicist

between a quark and a baryon
Makes complete sense even if it seems mean spirited.

Someone who pays the extra money for a mac over a PC would most likely have more disposable income/not be price sensitive.

It's the electronic version of a car dealership/jewelry store showing me the cheap shit if I walk in wearing gym clothes or showing me top end stuff if I came in wearing a well tailored suit.

I just found the article. They weren't charging Mac users more. They found that Mac users tend to spend more on hotels, so for their recommended list, they were higher priced than pc users. But if you sort by price anyway, it doesn't make a difference. In other words, a non-issue and not the same thing as what staples is doing.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
I was gonna be upset about the first paragraph but the second one is pc users = sweatpants so I'm gonna let it slide.

If you want to make it more fair.

Normal gym clothes - show me the cheap shit.

Designer sweat suits costing 300$ + and jewelry - Show me the expensive shit.
 

Alucrid

Banned
If you want to make it more fair.

Normal gym clothes - show me the cheap shit.

Designer sweat suits costing 300$ + and jewelry - Show me the expensive shit.

but i use pcs and have (2)hundred dollar sweats. i mean, that's why i can buy them in the first place
 

freddy

Banned
Supermarkets do this but the reason is different.

Property tax rates, lease rates, etc. differ for brick and mortar stores from one town to another and thus brick and mortar stores have to adjust their prices to factor in the cost. It's not that they charge more in a wealthier neighborhood because they believe they can, it's that it likely costs more for them to operate in said neighborhood due to higher operational costs.

When you buy from Staples online, the product doesn't ship from a local Staples (maybe I'm wrong on this) but from a regional warehouse direct to your door so price differences based on where you live -- excluding shipping and sales tax -- are bogus.

Except they charge more in poorer neighbourhoods - because they know they can.
 
Except they charge more in poorer neighbourhoods - because they know they can.

I'd like to see some proof/evidence.

In the poorest neighborhoods, I could still see operating cost as a determining factor as they have to account for higher operational costs due to security, loss prevention, and theft.

My wider point is that geographical pricing for brick and mortar stores is easier to excuse because there are any number of reasons for higher prices to account for higher operational costs from one location to another.

For an online retail front, it doesn't make sense.
 

freddy

Banned
I don't really have time because I'm just up playing Santa and won't be back for a few days, but I'm sure someone else in Australia remembers the ACCC investigation into geographical pricing. It's not as prevalent now as there's been a big push by governments to attract other supermarket chains like Aldi, to provide competition to the big two chains here.

Another concern was lowering prices to bankrupt specialist stores in the area and once they moved away or sold up they would jack up prices.

A search on geographical pricing will also show you some results.

Merry Christmas people.
 

Laekon

Member
Why did the OP quote The Verge when they didn't add anything to the story?

While I don't like the practice I don't see an issue with it. People are free to try other sites.
 

isoquant

Member
I'd like to see some proof/evidence.

In the poorest neighborhoods, I could still see operating cost as a determining factor as they have to account for higher operational costs due to security, loss prevention, and theft.

My wider point is that geographical pricing for brick and mortar stores is easier to excuse because there are any number of reasons for higher prices to account for higher operational costs from one location to another.

For an online retail front, it doesn't make sense.

Check this out: http://people.brandeis.edu/~kgraddy/published papers/GraddyK_jbes1997.pdf

I tend to agree with your analysis.
 

Just to call this out, the conclusion from this research piece:

The results need not be evidence of discrimination but may reflect unmeasured cost differences across areas that are correlated with the proportion of the population that is black. Explanations based on price discrimination, either due to differences in elasticities, differences in competition, or differences in taste cannot be excluded.
 

Enron

Banned
More like costs of doing business in poor areas (which tend to have a higher % of minority residents) are higher because product sits on the shelf longer, sales volume is down as compared to more affluent areas, so they compensate by charging higher prices per unit.

Edit: Or at least for physical retail, anyways. Forgot that this was about online retail for a second there.
 
More like costs of doing business in poor areas (which tend to have a higher % of minority residents) are higher because product sits on the shelf longer, sales volume is down as compared to more affluent areas, so they compensate by charging higher prices per unit.

Edit: Or at least for physical retail, anyways. Forgot that this was about online retail for a second there.

bingo.
 

Korey

Member
Supermarkets already do this with store goods.
right, the article mentions gas stations as an example. But this is about online goods.

up until recently when user tracking has become more sophisticated, online prices have been generally equal for everyone
 

madp

The Light of El Cantare
As someone who lives in the middle of nowhere, fuck this. I already have to deal with the high prices of local B&M retailers who don't need to be competitive because it's an hour to the nearest Wal-Mart/mall/shopping center, but if internet retailers that I shop from are beginning to do this too, well, I guess it's motivation to get out of this shithole.
 
This is bullshit. Charge more for shipping if it means higher shipping and handling costs. Saying local factors plays a big role is BS. Every item comes from a warehouse, not some local B&M store.
 

Korey

Member
So I can use a proxy to get discounts from some companies that use IP tracking to base my price?

It might be possible to do that at this time, but eventually they'll figure out how to adjust prices based on your shipping address or something.

Also, there's no indication of which stores do this (other than this one WSJ article), so online shoppers are more or less screwed unless they do a lot of research and know how to use proxies or modify their browsers.
 
This happens in retail all the time.

A Target for example located in an area with no other competing stores for lets say 5 miles will sell product x for regular price.

But a Target with a Walmart down the block will sell the same product cheaper if the Walmart is selling it at a lower price.
 
The 'costs' to the company aren't all that relevant. The price of a product only has its floor set by things like delivery cost, depots, insurance etc. The thing that actually defines the price set, though, is supply and demand. It doesn't matter how much it costs to operate in a certain area, if there is loads of competition you can't charge huge amounts, and vice versa.
 

iamblades

Member
This is bullshit. Charge more for shipping if it means higher shipping and handling costs. Saying local factors plays a big role is BS. Every item comes from a warehouse, not some local B&M store.

It depends on what the relationship is between the corporation and the local store is.

Given that they were a retailer before they had an online store, I could easily see the local stores wanting a cut or wanting sales in their territory to count as sales from that store.
 
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