Support NeoGAF

[Valonquar]

I'd need to see some shots from that rotoscoping. I thought Ralph Bakshi has certain scenes of sloppy rotoscoping in American Pop (the animated movie) but...overall, I've never seen someone screw up rotoscoping. That was the whole point in animation was to bring in something more realistic for visual effects. I'd take a leap to watch this to see it for myself it it was only 2 episodes but not for the 11 or 12 it had.

One simple explanation for the seemingly change in animation was the fact that there were 2 OVA that I believe Pioneer boxed up as one. The first was 6 episodes and there was another 6 (maybe 7) episodes thrown into the same DVD set from a 2nd OVA.

By they way, welcome back to the discussion Valonquar ...you were here all the way back on Page 1 if I recall.

Went back and jumped through a bit. It's... weird. Here's a quick scene from Ep 3 for example: (jump to about 19:50)


now look at this....something in episode 10 (Jump to 13:00 for the worst of it)


but then the quality is back by the ending episodes. I remember being pretty taken aback by the random change of styles.

 

[Happosai]

Yeah it looks like it should be some High School fighting anime but the OVA as presented is a mish-mash of fantasy, sci-fi, action and horror but still with comedy interjections. Certainly some guilty pleasure to be found.

And yeah the western boxart makes it appear like something generic. The JP VHS and LD boxart is better representative of what you get though obviously the nudity meant it couldn't be used here and perhaps makes it appear too similar to a hentai as well:





Watch Bakshi's LotR. They didn't finish the rotoscoping for large chunks of the movie. =P Although in his defense they had to go ahead with a slashed budget and ran out of money while dealing with a studio that didn't want to do the movie anymore.

Let me touch on the Bakshi comment first so I don't derail the thread. He was notorious for excuses like that in production and it was reflective in the animators who'd worked under him. After watching Fire & Ice one day...I always thought to myself, Bakshi was about as close to an American anime influencer than anyone else. He took the same risks in his career and some of those weren't so great but he was the only American I remember putting out animated films targeted toward adults (which was taboo). Tezuka I think helped make that push in anime as they too got a bit soft if you go back to 50's/early 60's anime.

About that Battle Royale High School JP box art. Wow! Just an incredible job in the graphic design, the painting and even the way they formatted the back cover. Makes me feel like those who licensed it in the U.S. were a bunch of slack jawed yokels who wanted it to be forgotten. Just post a comparison of the two and that says a lot. I would have paid the 15,000 Yen.

Space Runaway Could you do us all a favor too and re-share that Twitter page from awhile back where someone keeps uploading all this retro anime VHS artwork?

Went back and jumped through a bit. It's... weird. Here's a quick scene from Ep 3 for example: (jump to about 19:50)


now look at this....something in episode 10 (Jump to 13:00 for the worst of it)


but then the quality is back by the ending episodes. I remember being pretty taken aback by the random change of styles.

What the devil was that? I see what they tried to do with the scene with the child. Seemed like they were trying to work around a rounded lens (not quite a fish-eyed lenses but similar) but they warped everything. The child looked like Booji boy (without the glasses) from DEVO. Lol! I did want to say this -- the art style was nice though. But, for something so anti-climatic...not sure why they felt on taking the challenge of rotoscoping. Rather than just saying it was sloppy...it would seem like there was a lack of overall experience. I think it's not all visually bad but after we finish these comments, I wonder...maybe we'll be the last to even bring up Hakkenden into conversation. Just thinking that they didn't have much with it back in 1990 and I think we've given it coverage that no one else would give in the 2020's.

Side note on the YouTube upload of the 1st video: Spanish subtitles. I didn't watch it long enough to see if they were Castellano or Latin American Spanish subs. I own several anime titles I've purchased since moving to Mexico with Spanish subs. Mexican's are relatively picky on anime and I doubt I could get anyone to watch this...

 

[JunkerWoland]

Figured this was worth mentioning, since they're such a big part of US retail for anime, manga, and related goods: Right Stuf has been acquired by Crunchyroll (which is to say, Sony).

Crunchyroll announcement: https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-n...s-deal-to-acquire-anime-superstore-right-stuf

Right Stuf's FAQ on things: https://www.rightstufanime.com/post...ws&utm_campaign=news_en&referrer=editorial_cr

Also, Right Stuf will no longer sell adult items and has unloaded their existing adult business onto a separate, Nevada-based entity, Ero Anime LLC. The company's website: https://eroanimestore.com/

 

[Space Runaway]

Let me touch on the Bakshi comment first so I don't derail the thread. He was notorious for excuses like that in production and it was reflective in the animators who'd worked under him. After watching Fire & Ice one day...I always thought to myself, Bakshi was about as close to an American anime influencer than anyone else. He took the same risks in his career and some of those weren't so great but he was the only American I remember putting out animated films targeted toward adults (which was taboo). Tezuka I think helped make that push in anime as they too got a bit soft if you go back to 50's/early 60's anime.

Yeah he was basically the only US studio doing adult animation at the time and was fairly successful with it until the 80s. I will say the aforementioned Fire and Ice is the only time I feel he was truly successful at executing a fully rotoscoped movie.

Space Runaway Could you do us all a favor too and re-share that Twitter page from awhile back where someone keeps uploading all this retro anime VHS artwork?

Here: https://twitter.com/AnimeV_H_S/

Their twitter got taken down at one point and was somewhat recently restored. So save anything you like because it could always disappear again.

Figured this was worth mentioning, since they're such a big part of US retail for anime, manga, and related goods: Right Stuf has been acquired by Crunchyroll (which is to say, Sony).

Crunchyroll announcement: https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-n...s-deal-to-acquire-anime-superstore-right-stuf

Right Stuf's FAQ on things: https://www.rightstufanime.com/post...ws&utm_campaign=news_en&referrer=editorial_cr

Also, Right Stuf will no longer sell adult items and has unloaded their existing-adult business on a separate, Nevada-based entity, Ero Anime LLC. The company's website: https://eroanimestore.com/

*sigh*

 

[JunkerWoland]

*sigh*

Indeed...

 

[Happosai]

Figured this was worth mentioning, since they're such a big part of US retail for anime, manga, and related goods: Right Stuf has been acquired by Crunchyroll (which is to say, Sony).

Crunchyroll announcement: https://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-n...s-deal-to-acquire-anime-superstore-right-stuf

Right Stuf's FAQ on things: https://www.rightstufanime.com/post...ws&utm_campaign=news_en&referrer=editorial_cr

Also, Right Stuf will no longer sell adult items and has unloaded their existing adult business onto a separate, Nevada-based entity, Ero Anime LLC. The company's website: https://eroanimestore.com/

I really have any business with Crunchyroll and never have. However, Sony (owner) acquiring Rightstuf...I won't complain too much. I've had back and forths with their Minnesota-based manager for over a decade now and the whole thing where they ended up slapping an illegal $30 import tax (on top of the $15 import fees) paid on my last orders to Mexico; which they very arrogantly defended. My investigation into it was that their FedEx carrier in Tennessee didn't know how to fill out a custom's form. I've really wanted to order with them again and I'm hoping that by having a more corporate ownership they get their *stuf* sorted out and more convenient (the same way companies like Amazon can easily absorb charges and quickly ship practically anything to non-U.S. territories).

Why did they divide their material? Or...maybe I shouldn't ask as the answer is probably more obvious than I know.

Yeah he was basically the only US studio doing adult animation at the time and was fairly successful with it until the 80s. I will say the aforementioned Fire and Ice is the only time I feel he was truly successful at executing a fully rotoscoped movie.

Here: https://twitter.com/AnimeV_H_S/

Their twitter got taken down at one point and was somewhat recently restored. So save anything you like because it could always disappear again.



*sigh*

I've tried to find an instance in which anime artists had reference Ralph Bakshi as an influence. I know that certain Western artists did have an impact on certain anime productions or manga artists. For instance -- Monkey Punch (creator of Lupin the lll) cited Mort Drucker as one of his influences and it shows if you happen to check out the original mangas from the late-60's (which I grew up with).

Thank you for sharing that link on the Anime VHS. By the way, I see one in there that appears to be a variation of the G.T.O. anime VHS which looks slightly different from the late-90's anime. Any idea what that is?

One that popped into my mind which I figured I'd ask about was 'Tokyo Vice.' So, I had the Media Blasters VHS years ago which was double boxed with a weird OVA called 'Marriage Kekkon.' I don't remember watching it but I remember the opening song. I was just learning electric guitar in the late-90's when Tokyo Vice came out. I remember learning the harmonized guitar part using two cassette recorders some 20 odd years ago. The OVA itself has never seemed that great. Any feedback on Tokyo Vice?

 

[JunkerWoland]

Why did they divide their material? Or...maybe I shouldn't ask as the answer is probably more obvious than I know.

Crunchyroll/Sony won't sell material explicitly considered adult (18+) or pornographic in nature. The company taking over Right Stuf's adult stock, Ero Anime LLC, is an independent entity, based in Nevada. It's unknown, whether there is--or will remain--any behind-the-scenes connection between Right Stuf and Ero Anime, but Ero Anime is legally a separate business and not part of this acquisition.

::: edit :::
And I'll just update this, since it's kind of a blast from the past: those running Ero Anime LLC and their associated storefronts, EroAnimeStore.com & BuyAnime.com, are probably Adult Source Media (ASM), which some might remember as long-time providers of adult anime, though primarily active during the height of the DVD era. The name of the registered agent for Ero Anime LLC matches ASM's President, and both businesses share certain addresses.

Assuming the above is all true, then at least there's some assurance that Ero Anime LLC isn't merely a vehicle to liquidate Right Stuf's remaining adult stock, orders, and pre-orders. Ero Anime LLC is also now the owner of what was Right Stuf's adult label, Critical Mass. I do wonder, if the company will attempt to license new titles and release them under Critical Mass, as almost the entirety of the adult anime ASM has issued in modern times are simply compilations of scenes from their existing catalog.

 

[Dorago]

2 years or so back - I bought the (then) long out of print bluray of Nadia Secret of the Blue Water for something close to $100.
Turns out its getting a re-release next month at normal retail.
Just goes to show almost everything will get released - or reprinted at some point.

Speaking of, one retro anime I never actually saw but has always been on my radar - but theres no apparent modern release or easy way to watch it:
Neo Tokyo. Anyone seen that and have any thoughts?

Neo Tokyo is good. The segments don't have much plot but they all have amazing animation. Running Man is the standout and it looks so cool that it was used to advertise MTV Liquid Television and Streamline Pictures back in the day.

 

[Dorago]

It's not super retro but I've been thinking about Ergo Proxy lately. I can't think of another show that had a clear "A" team "B" team and even "c" team animators. Some of the episodes look absolutely amazing then the next might look like Naruto filler. Really crazy.

EDIT: One of my favorite OP's ever too

I kick myself for ignoring this when it came out. I decided to watch an episode on a whim and was blown away by how amazing the show was. The opening is indeed one of the best ever.

 

[Happosai]

Neo Tokyo is good. The segments don't have much plot but they all have amazing animation. Running Man is the standout and it looks so cool that it was used to advertise MTV Liquid Television and Streamline Pictures back in the day.

Correction, NeoTokyo is great (in my biased opinion). I would debate that there's plot in the latter two animations. Plot isn't always an arc when it comes to a short. The first is an abstract art-type animation and isn't really intended to have a plot. But, you've agreed that it's an impressive piece of animated work and yes, Running Man spanned beyond. Streamline was something else too. Aside from fansubs...many North American anime fans were first introduced through Streamline and it's something many still recognize today. How many times do you hear people say, "wow, remember how great Harmony Gold was?" You'll have a short conversation but not around Harmony Gold. AnimeEigo seemed to pick up great titles and have always been so-so.

I'm not sure what Discotek's story is but they just seemed to pop out of the early 2010's with hope that retro anime could stay alive (especially in the video market).

 

[kunonabi]

Damn, Kiyoshi Kobayashi passed away. RIP to one of the greats.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I kick myself for ignoring this when it came out. I decided to watch an episode on a whim and was blown away by how amazing the show was. The opening is indeed one of the best ever.

Give it a watch. Outside of the inconsistent art, it's really great imo.

 

[Happosai]

Damn, Kiyoshi Kobayashi passed away. RIP to one of the greats.

R.I.P. indeed...my favorites were his Daisuke Jigen, Jack (Violence Jack) and I believe he was Joe in Crusher Joe too.

Give it a watch. Outside of the inconsistent art, it's really great imo.

I'm confused here. Is the comment for NeoTokyo or Ergo Proxy? Ergo Proxy was fairly consistent but NeoTokyo was meant to be inconsistent. However, I agree...give them a chance. I'm not sure where I can refer someone to watch NeoTokyo. Physical releases are oop and pretty expensive, it's not on YouTube (has some heavy rights protections) and I highly doubt it's on streaming. Ergo Proxy on the other hand is relatively accessible.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

R.I.P. indeed...my favorites were his Daisuke Jigen, Jack (Violence Jack) and I believe he was Joe in Crusher Joe too.

I'm confused here. Is the comment for NeoTokyo or Ergo Proxy? Ergo Proxy was fairly consistent but NeoTokyo was meant to be inconsistent. However, I agree...give them a chance. I'm not sure where I can refer someone to watch NeoTokyo. Physical releases are oop and pretty expensive, it's not on YouTube (has some heavy rights protections) and I highly doubt it's on streaming. Ergo Proxy on the other hand is relatively accessible.

I was recommending Ergo Proxy. A top 10 for me. I loved it. It's just a shame that it had clear A and B teams working on it.

 

[Happosai]

I was recommending Ergo Proxy. A top 10 for me. I loved it. It's just a shame that it had clear A and B teams working on it.

I think historically speaking (this being a retro group), I noticed this is around 2005/2006 (Ergo Proxy). The art style of the characters is great but I think it shows how far Japanese production had nearly (if not completely) eliminated all modes/methods of traditional animation. 2D cel painting is gone, painted backgrounds gone even the method of photography had been digitized at this point. Even the means of distribution...VHS had virtually disappeared aside from those selling them 2nd hand. As one of many results, the OVA died.

Someone here more educated in the official timeline probably knows more than I but it seems about 1999 that it was clear certain anime series were being produced with a hybrid of hand-drawn animation but had digital elements added (especially to backgrounds). By 2000 it was like day/night change. Not saying I don't like anything from that time. I haven't watched Hellsing yet even though OmegaSupreme keeps referring it but I will. It does appear that they did not use any traditional animation in the production. Or others such as Saiyuki or even Ghost Stories maintained a somewhat late-90's anime art style but I don't see any hand painted cel work in those. Space Runaway or anyone have any idea when/why Japan suddenly abandoned traditional anime methods after maintaining it longer than most (the U.S. started transitioning over to C.G. and digital ink by 1996 for the majority of American animation).

 

[OmegaSpirit32X]

I think historically speaking (this being a retro group), I noticed this is around 2005/2006 (Ergo Proxy). The art style of the characters is great but I think it shows how far Japanese production had nearly (if not completely) eliminated all modes/methods of traditional animation. 2D cel painting is gone, painted backgrounds gone even the method of photography had been digitized at this point. Even the means of distribution...VHS had virtually disappeared aside from those selling them 2nd hand. As one of many results, the OVA died.

Someone here more educated in the official timeline probably knows more than I but it seems about 1999 that it was clear certain anime series were being produced with a hybrid of hand-drawn animation but had digital elements added (especially to backgrounds). By 2000 it was like day/night change. Not saying I don't like anything from that time. I haven't watched Hellsing yet even though OmegaSupreme keeps referring it but I will. It does appear that they did not use any traditional animation in the production. Or others such as Saiyuki or even Ghost Stories maintained a somewhat late-90's anime art style but I don't see any hand painted cel work in those. Space Runaway or anyone have any idea when/why Japan suddenly abandoned traditional anime methods after maintaining it longer than most (the U.S. started transitioning over to C.G. and digital ink by 1996 for the majority of American animation).

I think it's simply just technology advancing and trends changing. Digital animation is just cheaper and easier to produce I guess.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Regarding the anime industry's switch to digital production, part of the change was for the purposes of bringing down the cost and time required to create and deliver content, needed by an industry experiencing an increasing demand for new shows. Another huge factor was Japanese companies announcing they were ceasing the production of celluloid, further accelerating the shift. Toei animation also moved their production to digital by the end of the 1990s; there's a general assertion--with arguably the biggest entity in the market making the switch--this essentially forced everyone else to follow suit, in order to maintain the new standards. Additionally, the late 90s and early 2000s finally saw Japanese society at-large adopting the usage of contemporary PCs; lowered costs and standardized software packages allowed studios to implement PC systems, something previously only feasible for larger operations.

So, it's really a confluence of factors: demand for content was high; celluloid was going away; the biggest player in the industry made the switch; and PCs were relatively cheap and more people knew how to use them.

 

[Happosai]

Regarding the anime industry's switch to digital production, part of the change was for the purposes of bringing down the cost and time required to create and deliver content, needed by an industry experiencing an increasing demand for new shows. Another huge factor was Japanese companies announcing they were ceasing the production of celluloid, further accelerating the shift. Toei animation also moved their production to digital by the end of the 1990s; there's a general assertion--with arguably the biggest entity in the market making the switch--this essentially forced everyone else to follow suit, in order to maintain the new standards. Additionally, the late 90s and early 2000s finally saw Japanese society at-large adopting the usage of contemporary PCs; lowered costs and standardized software packages allowed studios to implement PC systems, something previously only feasible for larger operations.

So, it's really a confluence of factors: demand for content was high; celluloid was going away; the biggest player in the industry made the switch; and PCs were relatively cheap and more people knew how to use them.

Thank you too for clarifying. Unfortunately, having studied media arts & animation on Western animation, I know the history behind most American animation productions but anime was something I added to that without as much historical knowledge. You answered it and it sounds like cutting corners was noticeable in late 90's anime even that which was hand painted. I've heard this was due to budget cuts which went as high up to say that the overall Japanese economy was a factor in the deterioration in anime production after about 1993.

One thing you said too stands out, "Toei animation also moved their production to digital by the end of the 1990s; there's a general assertion--with arguably the biggest entity in the market making the switch--this essentially forced everyone else to follow suit, in order to maintain the new standards."

In traditional animation supply chain was a pretty big deal (even for American animators before they switched to digital). But seeming to have made the items scarce and having that "the show must go on" attitude seems to me that they were going to be forced to change. I know many more know PCs but how many of those rough draft artists, storyboard artists, layout artists, background artists, cel painters etc; how many were as rehearsed in doing the same in PC and wanted to vs. those who were started off new in the industry? I believe someone also knows that they likely forced out many older animators. Somethings are just wrong about the whole shift (in my opinion). I liked the digital shift for anime as it pertains to JRPGS which is where I see it fit best. But guys like Yoshiaki Kawajiri was had been a director, animator and a number of other roles in animation. Now, after the digital shift...don't quote me but I believe someone here stated he's a storyboard artist. Wow.

I think cheaper is key too. No one can state that it took half the skillset and man power to create these "great" modern anime sequences quite they way Japan did during the 1980's. So much time has passed now since the digital transition -- I imagine most would not even be able to create works like that even if you trained them in the traditional process.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Thank you too for clarifying. Unfortunately, having studied media arts & animation on Western animation, I know the history behind most American animation productions but anime was something I added to that without as much historical knowledge. You answered it and it sounds like cutting corners was noticeable in late 90's anime even that which was hand painted. I've heard this was due to budget cuts which went as high up to say that the overall Japanese economy was a factor in the deterioration in anime production after about 1993.

One thing you said too stands out, "Toei animation also moved their production to digital by the end of the 1990s; there's a general assertion--with arguably the biggest entity in the market making the switch--this essentially forced everyone else to follow suit, in order to maintain the new standards."

In traditional animation supply chain was a pretty big deal (even for American animators before they switched to digital). But seeming to have made the items scarce and having that "the show must go on" attitude seems to me that they were going to be forced to change. I know many more know PCs but how many of those rough draft artists, storyboard artists, layout artists, background artists, cel painters etc; how many were as rehearsed in doing the same in PC and wanted to vs. those who were started off new in the industry? I believe someone also knows that they likely forced out many older animators. Somethings are just wrong about the whole shift (in my opinion). I liked the digital shift for anime as it pertains to JRPGS which is where I see it fit best. But guys like Yoshiaki Kawajiri was had been a director, animator and a number of other roles in animation. Now, after the digital shift...don't quote me but I believe someone here stated he's a storyboard artist. Wow.

I think cheaper is key too. No one can state that it took half the skillset and man power to create these "great" modern anime sequences quite they way Japan did during the 1980's. So much time has passed now since the digital transition -- I imagine most would not even be able to create works like that even if you trained them in the traditional process.

I wouldn't attribute much to notions of cutting corners. Anime studios are seemingly forever underfunded, and certainly early-to-mid 90s productions saw quality issues, attributable to slashed investments thanks to Japan's economic downturn. The late 90s and early 2000s, however, were seeing a large uptick in demand for new content with the establishment of anime's contemporary format, where most shows are now broadcast during late-night blocks on satellite stations. Evangelion's effect on the industry also cannot be understated; people can think what they want of the show's content, but the business around the series set a higher standard for the industry's TV production values. End result: studios were looking to maintain a certain quality standard, while finding efficiencies to cut down on overhead (extra staff, materials, etc.), which digital provided.

While the initial switch to digital did change some of the visual characteristics of anime, I wouldn't say the general production values of TV series in the first 10 years of the 2000s were worse than TV series in the 80s and 90s (in some cases, they were better). The past 10 years-or-so have been another story; this has more to do with the glut of content and its lack of funding, lack of overall & talented staff, and lack of time to even really complete most productions.

Established staff also wouldn't have been driven out of the industry, particularly from say 2000 to 2010, when shows were still being animated for standard definition. Most of the production work, including preliminary background drawings, were still being done outside the computer, giving older staff time to adjust. It's really been during this HD era that the majority of work has gone fully digital. Even using Kawajiri as an example, he was the Director for Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, a digital production; he also still had a few other Director credits and provided key animation through 2000 to 2010. The last decade has been the period when he seems to only provide storyboards; whatever the issue (assuming one exists), it doesn't appear to be an inability to work digitally.

Digital anime production does look different and at times cheap, but there's also a tendency to create faulty comparisons between some random television series from the last 10 years and the OVAs & movies of the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Some of this disparate viewpoint probably stems from most shows in the last 20 years only running 12 to 13 episodes, without considering they're being created on TV budgets at TV pacing and not with the larger funds, longer productions windows, and just the overall different environment surrounding those older creations. I don't adore the modern anime industry, but the issue really is the shift from the limited production of more premium content in the 70s, 80s and 90s, contrasted against the current trend of creating too much content, most of which is meant for TV broadcast. Subjective notions of content aside, there's still quality animation work being crafted by the likes of Shaft for their Madoka and Monogatari series, the Yamato reboots, UFO Table's work on the Fate franchise, and movies from guys like Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai. I'd also throw into the mix some (not all) of the recent Gundam TV series, OVAs and movies and various series done by Kyoto Animation and Studio Trigger.

 

[Happosai]

I wouldn't attribute much to notions of cutting corners. Anime studios are seemingly forever underfunded, and certainly early-to-mid 90s productions saw quality issues, attributable to slashed investments thanks to Japan's economic downturn. The late 90s and early 2000s, however, were seeing a large uptick in demand for new content with the establishment of anime's contemporary format, where most shows are now broadcast during late-night blocks on satellite stations. Evangelion's effect on the industry also cannot be understated; people can think what they want of the show's content, but the business around the series set a higher standard for the industry's TV production values. End result: studios were looking to maintain a certain quality standard, while finding efficiencies to cut down on overhead (extra staff, materials, etc.), which digital provided.

While the initial switch to digital did change some of the visual characteristics of anime, I wouldn't say the general production values of TV series in the first 10 years of the 2000s were worse than TV series in the 80s and 90s (in some cases, they were better). The past 10 years-or-so have been another story; this has more to do with the glut of content and its lack of funding, lack of overall & talented staff, and lack of time to even really complete most productions.

Established staff also wouldn't have been driven out of the industry, particularly from say 2000 to 2010, when shows were still being animated for standard definition. Most of the production work, including preliminary background drawings, were still being done outside the computer, giving older staff time to adjust. It's really been during this HD era that the majority of work has gone fully digital. Even using Kawajiri as an example, he was the Director for Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, a digital production; he also still had a few other Director credits and provided key animation through 2000 to 2010. The last decade has been the period when he seems to only provide storyboards; whatever the issue (assuming one exists), it doesn't appear to be an inability to work digitally.

Digital anime production does look different and at times cheap, but there's also a tendency to create faulty comparisons between some random television series from the last 10 years and the OVAs & movies of the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Some of this disparate viewpoint probably stems from most shows in the last 20 years only running 12 to 13 episodes, without considering they're being created on TV budgets at TV pacing and not with the larger funds, longer productions windows, and just the overall different environment surrounding those older creations. I don't adore the modern anime industry, but the issue really is the shift from the limited production of more premium content in the 70s, 80s and 90s, contrasted against the current trend of creating too much content, most of which is meant for TV broadcast. Subjective notions of content aside, there's still quality animation work being crafted by the likes of Shaft for their Madoka and Monogatari series, the Yamato reboots, UFO Table's work on the Fate franchise, and movies from guys like Mamoru Hosoda and Makoto Shinkai. I'd also throw into the mix some (not all) of the recent Gundam TV series, OVAs and movies and various series done by Kyoto Animation and Studio Trigger.

For those reading in this thread. This above is about as accurate as I'd call it with regard toward the transition of animation from the 20th century into the 21st with Japanese anime.

I'll admit to, my comments are sometimes biased or opinioned; the reason I like you in this thread is because you'll throw solid facts. Space Runaway has been that historian type who'll pull things in here in a Kenny Lauderdale-style. No one knows who each other is -- he could very well be Kenny. Either way, this was an enjoyable read and I believe that it's important anime does continue in some form. Again, my opinion is that it's served it's best from the 2010's onward in videos games (more particularly JRPGs). I also can't say I have any gripe about modern manga either. I'm not a big manga reader (I was 17-years ago when I was still in school) but after graduating; I kept the anime joy alive (as I was originally studying to become an animator and I worked temp as a storyboard artist in the early 2000's).

34 some pages of material to read through and I'm happy that in the 2 1/2-years this thread was made that it's remained on topic. However, I'm considering whether or not there needs to be a 2000's anime thread or if that gets integrated to this one. Thoughts?

Reason being is because it's not really a hot topic of discussion for the Anime/Manga Community thread (which purpose stands to discuss anime currently airing as well as newer manga). Seems that a 2000's anime title will pop into to either/or thread and get passed on relatively quickly. I figure someone like *hint *hint OmegaSupreme would be the one to create that thread in Communities. Maybe: 2000's Anime/JRPGs/Manga to start. As there are many of us who grew up on the 70's-90's anime, there's another generation (mostly millennial) which grew up on 2000's anime which had some of the most successful titles in 30-years.

Anyway, looking forward to the next post to keep the sub-topics going on retro anime and I'll drop one Wednesday or so unless someone beats me to it.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

For those reading in this thread. This above is about as accurate as I'd call it with regard toward the transition of animation from the 20th century into the 21st with Japanese anime.

I'll admit to, my comments are sometimes biased or opinioned; the reason I like you in this thread is because you'll throw solid facts. Space Runaway has been that historian type who'll pull things in here in a Kenny Lauderdale-style. No one knows who each other is -- he could very well be Kenny. Either way, this was an enjoyable read and I believe that it's important anime does continue in some form. Again, my opinion is that it's served it's best from the 2010's onward in videos games (more particularly JRPGs). I also can't say I have any gripe about modern manga either. I'm not a big manga reader (I was 17-years ago when I was still in school) but after graduating; I kept the anime joy alive (as I was originally studying to become an animator and I worked temp as a storyboard artist in the early 2000's).

34 some pages of material to read through and I'm happy that in the 2 1/2-years this thread was made that it's remained on topic. However, I'm considering whether or not there needs to be a 2000's anime thread or if that gets integrated to this one. Thoughts?

Reason being is because it's not really a hot topic of discussion for the Anime/Manga Community thread (which purpose stands to discuss anime currently airing as well as newer manga). Seems that a 2000's anime title will pop into to either/or thread and get passed on relatively quickly. I figure someone like *hint *hint OmegaSupreme would be the one to create that thread in Communities. Maybe: 2000's Anime/JRPGs/Manga to start. As there are many of us who grew up on the 70's-90's anime, there's another generation (mostly millennial) which grew up on 2000's anime which had some of the most successful titles in 30-years.

Anyway, looking forward to the next post to keep the sub-topics going on retro anime and I'll drop one Wednesday or so unless someone beats me to it.

I don't think we have the traffic to support another anime thread. The two threads we have now don't get much love. I think discussion of 2000's anime is quite fine. We are 22 years since the year 2000. Early to mid 2000's is also the boom period.

How old are you out of curiosity? I don't think you're much older than me if you are at all. Early 2000s was some prime anime time for me and many others.

 

[Happosai]

I don't think we have the traffic to support another anime thread. The two threads we have now don't get much love. I think discussion of 2000's anime is quite fine. We are 22 years since the year 2000. Early to mid 2000's is also the boom period.

How old are you out of curiosity? I don't think you're much older than me if you are at all. Early 2000s was some prime anime time for me and many others.

I think we have the site traffic if you post it in the right place. I mentioned Communities but now that I recall, I created this OP in Off-Topic (Hence the title still reading 'Retro Anime 2020'). I figured if the topic kept up after 6-months, I'd write in to see if we could have it moved to Communities. Very decent person on GAF did that and properly retitled the thread even though the description still reads 2020.

I'd give it a shot and maybe put something flashy in the title and a poll to kick start it but it'd be a better Off-Topic read than some of that threads posted there recently. I like OPs who stay consistent in communication with their thread. I'd say take the same challenge. If it can maintain it's weight in O.T. for 3-6 months; it's worth bringing it to Communities. If it starts to diffuse after a week, at least you tried to find a target who was interested. I checked my thread history and it appears I'd posted one back in 2020 a couple months prior to this and GAF seemed engaged. It lost weight as the OP wasn't very broad and I created this as a follow-up.

If all else fails, I'll see if I can bend the OP rules and move the retro cut off switch to about 2006. I get that 2006 was a long time ago but the medium of retro anime seemed to have walked out when it became fully digital and it was a fandom in the West. This may be nostalgia speaking but when I started watching there were no real anime clubs and conventions were usually just appendages of regular comic book conventions that happened to have a both or two that sold fansubs and some manga. Most during that time seemed to already be late-teens, 20's and early 30's. There wasn't much on TV aside from Sci-fi Saturdays.

The 2000's was different. Too name's first line up had some edited down classic titles but helped make the crowd slightly larger.

Mid-2000's it seemed that everyone knew what manga was, there were fan clubs, merchandising, seen became a thing, Western cosplay, designated anime conventions...body pillows... Very different kind of folk than those I started watching with. It wasn't a bad time but it was weird to see that anime had become popular in the States at that time. I know Mexico, Italy, France and Canada had Western audiences all the way back to the 70's. For Americans that 2000's boom sorta took the retro out of it for me. I did watch some select titles but it never stayed with me. I was never able to get into the fandom either. I watch it and occasionally read a manga...but that's it. I saw an 'anime club' once in my 20's and watching some semi-overweight guys eating Pocky, attempting to toss random words in Japanese at each other and talking about fantasies surrounding the female leads (I believe the anime they were watching was 'Love Hina') sorta creeped me out.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. If you make that thread, I'll chime in for sure.

 

[Happosai]

Ladioss Haven't heard from you in awhile. I mentioned on Monday-ish that I'd post something if no one else did now that I'm back in a semi-active stage on GAF again.

For those of you collecting physical anime (LaserDisc, VHS, DVD, blu-ray, etc) which titles do you own which you paid low and saw the prices skyrocket once they went oop?

I just passed through my collection and here are a few I picked out that seem to have gotten pretty expensive since I purchased:

1. A Woman Called Fujiko Mine (original TMS only blu-ray/DVD combo boxed). I paid about $29.99 for this in like 2012 and saw that this particular edition (this is not the newer thin box Discotek released) runs from about $150 - $250 approximately.

2. Fight! Iczer One (DVD). I bought it new on discount for about $7.99. The current price I see it going for used is about $200 - $250

3. Mecha Masters boxset [M.D. Geist Director's Cut & Deathforce, Genocyber Special Editon, Cybernetics Guardian OVA, soundtracks for M.D. Geist & Genocyber] (DVD boxed set). I paid a grand total of $19.99 in about 2012 for this. The price now ranges from around $150 - $300 + right now.

I counted many more especially my old Pioneer and U.V. released sets. I know some of you big collectors have some gold in your collection...looking at you kunonabi

So post which ones you paid low for and now see selling for over $100 U.S. right now (or whichever common currency)

 

[Valonquar]

So is laser-rot a real thing with old LDs? I remember that being a fear for a while back in the day.,

 

[Happosai]

So is laser-rot a real thing with old LDs? I remember that being a fear for a while back in the day.,

It's real...

LaserDisc Database - Laser Rot - Explanation

LDDb.com - The LaserDisc Database - Collections, Wishlists, Marketplace of obsolete and niche video formats (LD/CED/VHD/D-VHS/HD DVD)

www.lddb.com

I figure they had it coming too. Amazing artwork and tech for LD was bit ahead of it's time but the price made it so no one I ever knew could afford an LD player. Some anime artwork treasures from that time though especially if you search through Pioneer's old catalog.

 

[Ladioss]

Happosai Still here ! Just being busy with other stuff.

Watching Sandman on Netflix reminded me of classic horror shoujo mangas I used to read back in the 90s at the same time than Neil Gaiman's comics, so I'm currently looking for good raws of Karura Mau, Yumemakura Baku Twilight Gekijou and older shoujo stuff to rewatch

So post which ones you paid low for and now see selling for over $100 U.S. right now (or whichever common currency)

Probably anything from Geneon, IDP in France (they did some really nice Lupin III releases 10 or 15 years ago) or Yamato in Italy (the Kaze to ki no uta DVD).
According to Ebay, there is also still a demand for Animeigo's Urusei Yatsura complete DVD set too. I thought the series was going to have a new US release soon ?
Other than that (and leaving aside LDs - I don't have anything really fancy like EoE or X, of even the Ghibli ga ippai box anyway), some Japanese DVD-box I bought during the late 2000/early 2010s like Cutey Honey and Akazukin Chacha seems to be still in demand on Amazon JP... I guess not all retro anime series get to have a physical release on BD nowadays, even in Japan ?

I need to dive back in my collection, I don't really know what there is in there for some years now

 

[Happosai]

Happosai Still here ! Just being busy with other stuff.

Watching Sandman on Netflix reminded me of classic horror shoujo mangas I used to read back in the 90s at the same time than Neil Gaiman's comics, so I'm currently looking for good raws of Karura Mau, Yumemakura Baku Twilight Gekijou and older shoujo stuff to rewatch



Probably anything from Geneon, IDP in France (they did some really nice Lupin III releases 10 or 15 years ago) or Yamato in Italy (the Kaze to ki no uta DVD).
According to Ebay, there is also still a demand for Animeigo's Urusei Yatsura complete DVD set too. I thought the series was going to have a new US release soon ?
Other than that (and leaving aside LDs - I don't have anything really fancy like EoE or X, of even the Ghibli ga ippai box anyway), some Japanese DVD-box I bought during the late 2000/early 2010s like Cutey Honey and Akazukin Chacha seems to be still in demand on Amazon JP... I guess not all retro anime series get to have a physical release on BD nowadays, even in Japan ?

I need to dive back in my collection, I don't really know what there is in there for some years now

International titles are fairly high priced depending on the demand. I'd say any of the older French releases of Rumiko anime is worth something now (as they were the first country to see some of those titles outside Japan). Which ones do you own though in collection?

By the way, you read right about Urusei Yatsura (meaning with about 3 on my poll headed for a blu-ray release...I'll need to change the poll soon). Check out JunkerWoland's post here on the upcoming Urusei Yatsura blu-ray release https://www.neogaf.com/threads/retro-anime-discussion-ot.1558696/post-266425879

The AnimeEigo release may go down with the release of these blu-ray sets. I recall Kimagure Orange Road boxsets would sell for over $350 on eBay until Discotek finally released it all in one small blu-ray boxset.

 

[Valonquar]

It's going to be so surreal seeing kids getting into New Urusei Yatsura this fall. When OG UY came out, I remember making a Lum shirt with a color printout and doing an iron-on transfer because there just wasn't shirts for this stuff back then.

 

[ValiantTraveler]

So I've been watching a bit of the shows aired on Space Toon (Arabic channel) and between the Kuroko no Basket and Dragon Ball Super they keep re-airing this Sci-fi take on Moby Dick, a Dezaki production:



I've also been watching some episodes of another sci-fi adaptation of a classic of literature: The Count of Monte Cristo. Not sure when it came out but it's some time during the mid-2000s.



This show has a unique aesthetic where characters wear clothes with elaborate motifs that don't bend with the fold and even extend to the hair. One of the characters has a freaking green-skinned alien butler and in one episode someone has a hidden cam in a cow's eye of all things. There's even a duel with mechas. Lots of crazy ideas mixed with a very elegant aesthetic and beautiful character designs. I really need to get around watching the whole series properly with Japanese subs.

 

[Valonquar]

I loved Gankutsuou when it came out. I wish it had gotten another season and spread the story out more to be able to stay more faithful to the orginal story (while still having the sci-finess)

Recently re-watched DNA² and forgot how much I miss the old Masakazu Katsura stuff.

Did this or Video Girl Ai every get a super cleaned up re-release?

 

[JunkerWoland]

Did [DNA²] or Video Girl Ai every get a super cleaned up re-release

DNA² received a collected, Japanese BD release in 2014, and it's sadly a nasty upscale. Interestingly, a separate DVD collection was launched alongside the BD; not sure how they compare, but the DVD version is still somewhat available, while the BD set has essentially become a ghost. Besides Japan, I'm pretty sure DNA² hasn't seen a HD release in any other region and definitely not the US. Similarly, I'm almost 100% certain Video Girl Ai has also not seen a HD release in any region; last JP and US releases on DVD were both in 2001.

I wouldn't mind having proper HD versions of both DNA² and Video Girl Ai, but given one saw a poor HD upscale and the other is MIA, it makes me wonder, if the original film is whereabouts unknown or legitimately lost.

 

[Happosai]

It's going to be so surreal seeing kids getting into New Urusei Yatsura this fall. When OG UY came out, I remember making a Lum shirt with a color printout and doing an iron-on transfer because there just wasn't shirts for this stuff back then.

You know, they could save some Yen and simply release U.Y. on streaming platforms after the blu-ray releases. That'd be new there's an audience dating back to the 1990's that never saw the original. It was 195 episodes and a couple movies...I'd say they covered everything they needed to some 35-40-years back.
It's interesting you mention the iron on Lum shirts. I recall seeing Lum posted to notebooks and in drawings prior to ever knowing their was an anime crowd. Not going to say that everything Rumiko adapted in the digital age is terrible (like Mermaid Saga) but nothing will match that was created during the 1980's - mid-90's. The Rumik World OVAs were something else too.

So I've been watching a bit of the shows aired on Space Toon (Arabic channel) and between the Kuroko no Basket and Dragon Ball Super they keep re-airing this Sci-fi take on Moby Dick, a Dezaki production:



I've also been watching some episodes of another sci-fi adaptation of a classic of literature: The Count of Monte Cristo. Not sure when it came out but it's some time during the mid-2000s.



This show has a unique aesthetic where characters wear clothes with elaborate motifs that don't bend with the fold and even extend to the hair. One of the characters has a freaking green-skinned alien butler and in one episode someone has a hidden cam in a cow's eye of all things. There's even a duel with mechas. Lots of crazy ideas mixed with a very elegant aesthetic and beautiful character designs. I really need to get around watching the whole series properly with Japanese subs.

Sounds like Space Toon runs some pretty decent productions. I recall seeing a release of Moby Dick out here in Mexico too if I'm correct. The latter has some pretty crazy ideas. I'm curious to see what other works the writers had participated in. I love that art style too in Gankutsuou.

I loved Gankutsuou when it came out. I wish it had gotten another season and spread the story out more to be able to stay more faithful to the orginal story (while still having the sci-finess)

Recently re-watched DNA² and forgot how much I miss the old Masakazu Katsura stuff.

Did this or Video Girl Ai every get a super cleaned up re-release?

I think JunkerWoland answered the bulk of what there is to say about the Katsura titles. I'll say this much to add to that. I brought up DNA² a year or two ago. I still have the CPM DVD release. It was a fun watch but stay away from the English dub. I know the majority here watch subs but my wife wanted to hear the dub on DNA²...oh boy. Or find a clip of it. Karin's voice wasn't that bad but Tomoko...what did they do? I recall there being a character too that farted every time she got embarassed.

I felt Video Girl Ai was had a more serious tone throughout. I've always felt there was something between the writing there with Yota finding Ai through a VHS and Keiichi finding Belldandy in Ah! My Goddess. Growing up there was an article which confused the two stories and wrote that Keiichi introduced to Belldandy through a VHS. Anyway, I'm glad I held on to my Pioneer release of Video Girl Ai after what JunkerWoland mentioned. I mean, the fact that Japan never touched an HD release and it's 2022...says, they may not plan to. This would probably take Discotek to get it done. Likewise, I was aware that a blu-ray and DVD re-release came out in 2014 for DNA² but I have no intent to replace something existing in my collection unless there was some type of remastering.
I did replace my original Violence Jack DVD as the original was horrible in everyway (dark contrast over the transfer, subtitles didn't work on 1 of the OVAs, censoring and seemed to be a cheap pan & scan transfer); the Discotek DVD got it better and the blu-ray final got it right.

 

[Happosai]

Something I haven't done but I'll go ahead and do is share some YouTube channels which tend to cover retro anime in one way or another.

I'd say that most who've passed by this thread are familiar with Kenny Lauderdale. In short, the guy buys anime classic anime titles which seldom left Japan and have mostly been lost in time. The comedic touch is that he's not in this for the sake of nostalgia. So, we'll talk about the cheapest anime ever (maybe not lowest budget but, some of the worst quality), rare or 'lost' anime which may have never existed and reviewing titles with a touch of humor which may have deserved a release but never got it outside JP.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6dsQSn70Cem7zFsUANHqpQ

RetroCrush. Their channel typically shows clips from classic anime series' and OVAs to give viewers a look back into a title which they may have forgotten completely. It's more of a nostalgia trip than anything else but this is one of the best of this genre of channels. You may have a retro title collecting dust on your shelves and find a clip of that title on RetroCrush. Then, what do you know -- you're watching it all over. Several titles which I had not watched for nearly a decade that I had in my collection after watching their short 'promos' on R.C.

My only gripe is that their timeline of what they define as retro goes all the way in to 2000's. My understanding is that they're trying that 2000's anime hook to pull in a higher demographic.

https://www.youtube.com/c/RetroCrush/featured

TMS Official Channel. So, it's not all retro as TMS has never stopped producing anime. However, if you're looking for full licensed episodes that they ran back to the 90's and 80's in some instances. You can likely find a full series in the TMS channel if it was produced by them.

https://www.youtube.com/c/AnimeonTMSOfficialChannel/videos

Anime Classic Revival. Watch these while you can. Once something gets license rescued or put back into circulation...it'll disappear. Most of these titles never left the VHS/Laserdisc era or had a lower print number on DVD. One thing's for sure, we know many retro titles can be found in the entirety on YouTube but this puts many into one place. I've used several channels like this over the past 12-years but they typically are only around for 2-years to a little as only a few months. ACR is careful not to upload retro titles which are ever likely to be released on blu-ray/DVD or streaming in N.A. in our lifetimes. It's not a huge library but watch what they have and it's indeed a trip back in time.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC85zLfoFFgexh-9q_-ZlwtA/videos

Retro Anime trailers? AnimeCollective. That's just about it but check it out. Many remember particular theme which played on trailers from one of the many N.A. distributors such as: U.V. , ADV, Manga Entertainment, CPM, et al.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCk5VGoESoojsKz7i3aX5QCA/videos

VHS no Anime. Last one I'll throw in here for now is one that Space Runaway may have shared here first. This guy/gal continues almost weekly to upload anime from VHS with the N.A. boxart. So, it the VHS alone is something to remember a lost title you grew up with...you may find it here.

https://www.youtube.com/c/VHSnoAnime

I'm not that big on YouTube but aside from music channels; I'll toss these here. Which do you watch?

 

[Space Runaway]

One that popped into my mind which I figured I'd ask about was 'Tokyo Vice.' So, I had the Media Blasters VHS years ago which was double boxed with a weird OVA called 'Marriage Kekkon.' I don't remember watching it but I remember the opening song. I was just learning electric guitar in the late-90's when Tokyo Vice came out. I remember learning the harmonized guitar part using two cassette recorders some 20 odd years ago. The OVA itself has never seemed that great. Any feedback on Tokyo Vice?

Late reply =P

I didn't find it very good either. It sorta dumped you with characters and treats it like you're already familiar with them so it can go straight to the confusing story. When Junpei shows up at the end it's supposed to be exciting but you don't really know anything about this guy and he was barely in it prior to his re-appearance as well. =/ I recall it did have nice animation during certain sequences and I remember the scene with the helicopter on the freeway and the mech fight at the end being the only notable parts. It also has one of Media Blasters more trash dubs, sounding like they just used people from around the office. The dub also had these weird adlib sounding lines and under their breath mutterings that weren't in the original dialogue. I guess they weren't taking it very seriously.

And completely unrelated items but a nice reference art dump for Ranma 1/2 fans:

Art of Ranma ½

On a training journey, Ranma Saotome and his father Genma fall into the cursed springs at Jusenkyo. When someone falls into a cursed spring, they take the physical form of whatever drowned there hundreds or thousands of years ago whenever they come into contact with cold water…

characterdesignreferences.com

Their "art of animation" section has a bunch of stuff like that and worth a look if you like behind the scenes design references and such.

Also I didn't realize it but apparently Saban's infamous Sailor Moon pilot was finally found and put on the internet:

 

[Space Runaway]

"Heavy" from 1990

A forgotten "movie" and maybe even intentionally so?

It's a boxing anime that was intended to be the beginning of a series but never went past the initial movie. Our lead is "Guy", a super strong karate student living under his drunken (But super skilled) father. We also have a co-lead, Gordon, who is an old promoter(?) that was somehow having dreams about Guy being a champion boxer before ever meeting him. Once they meet it's the usual deal where Gordon wants him to become a boxer but Guy has other goals in life. After an amusing tussle with some gang members, they retaliate and shoot Guy's father in the head, putting him in a coma. So of course causes Guy to relent and take up boxing.

This is where the movie introduces some 90s topical elements and it's not surprising it handles them very clumsily. Gordon brings in a character, Lucky Roman, as the boxing coach. He is a gay black man that appears as a transvestite in his leisure time and he is also dying of aids. The movie tries to make it this dramatic thing where you can sympathize with Lucky's shattered dreams and lament his predicament and whatnot but it's all executed in a way that comes off very hokey. You can tell they're trying to be sincere and without malice but it's 1990 Japan so, you can really only laugh or groan at the execution. =P

After some quick training, Guy's first professional match is the big finale. It starts off fine but then takes a very shounen, cutting from the fight to give you personal backstory of the opponent so you actual care about him and his own personal stakes. Then it gets weird again...and cuts to Guy having a flashback of himself as a destitute child traveling with his father. He sees a dog get run over by a truck but it's puppy survives. The father suggest they eat the dead dog and so he cooks it. Guy refuses to eat it but then the father tries to make some point by showing the puppy is eating the cooked meat of it's mother and then says if he were to die that Guy should eat him to survive...This is intended as some allegory about perseverance and never giving in/up. =P

And then the whole thing just leads to a cornball ending that will make you roll your eyes.

Oh and somewhere in all this was a hooker character (Who is depicted as a blonde on the box despite being a red) that may have been intended to become the love interest or something. We'll never know. =P


The interesting thing about this was it was directed by Noboru Ishiguro, who also directed Macross: DYRL and MegaZone 23(Among many other notables) and seems like it may be his most obscure work. Imdb and wikipedia do not list this among his works though the JP wiki and ANN does and he's definitely listed in the credits as director and storyboards. I wonder if he has tried to disassociate himself from this.

Art and animation are also very mixed. Early it seems like they were conserving budget as the art is really basic and there's a lot of sloppy drawings with cross-eyes and misaligned mouths and such. Eventually the budget kicks in during the second half and you get something that could pass for OVA quality. Ishiguro does showcase some decent budget direction during parts and manages the pace everything well. Also a lot of the art in the second half has a "Fist" vibe and Guy even sorta looks like a Kenshiro that leaned more into Bruce than Stallone. Nobody in charge of the art or animation was involved in any Hokuto productions so it would seem they were just aping the look.

What a strange movie, yet one that kept my interest all the way through, for better or worse. It was certainly more enjoyable good-bad than those Sin Karate Jigokuhen OVAs and has that charm of Japan trying to depict America (Which is definitely not politically correct). Really though, I'm honestly surprised someone subbed it. The highlight is an early fight with street punks which has our hero Kool-Aid Man'ing through a wall to jump kick a guy and then punching a thugs eye out of it's socket; which they went and used for the VHS cover. =P

I have lots of questions related the the production and release of this anime, plus I think it might be an adaption of something but unfortunately there's little to no info about it. =/

 

[Happosai]

Late reply =P

I didn't find it very good either. It sorta dumped you with characters and treats it like you're already familiar with them so it can go straight to the confusing story. When Junpei shows up at the end it's supposed to be exciting but you don't really know anything about this guy and he was barely in it prior to his re-appearance as well. =/ I recall it did have nice animation during certain sequences and I remember the scene with the helicopter on the freeway and the mech fight at the end being the only notable parts. It also has one of Media Blasters more trash dubs, sounding like they just used people from around the office. The dub also had these weird adlib sounding lines and under their breath mutterings that weren't in the original dialogue. I guess they weren't taking it very seriously.

And completely unrelated items but a nice reference art dump for Ranma 1/2 fans:

Art of Ranma ½

On a training journey, Ranma Saotome and his father Genma fall into the cursed springs at Jusenkyo. When someone falls into a cursed spring, they take the physical form of whatever drowned there hundreds or thousands of years ago whenever they come into contact with cold water…

characterdesignreferences.com

Their "art of animation" section has a bunch of stuff like that and worth a look if you like behind the scenes design references and such.

Also I didn't realize it but apparently Saban's infamous Sailor Moon pilot was finally found and put on the internet:

Unfortunately, I think I'll have to suffer through the dub - unless I haven't searched well enough to find the subbed version of Tokyo Vice. The odd thing is, when I saw the trailer for it some 16-years ago - it was the original Japanese dialogue. A few years back, I downloaded a ton of oop titles to my PS3 and specifically searched for Tokyo Vice to see if it was any good. However, that version I have says CPM dub in the title. I was not even aware it was dubbed until then, which is why I can't expect it to be very good. Although, you should check credits on those weird Pioneer or Media Blasters dubs as there are sometimes names of people who later had gone onto do voice work in video games. For instance, Moldiver and the YYH OVA dubs had roles by David Hayter. He was just doing his everyday Hayter voice though...so, I it wouldn't be expected to hear him pull off a Solid Snake voice. I'll give it a shot either way.

Thanks for the Ranma 1/2 artwork page. Amazing character designs and the raw cels without backgrounds through the first page of images. Sorry for the tag but I think kunonabi would also appreciate seeing this too! I've shared with my wife already as she's an even bigger Ramna 1/2 fan.

That's a neat thing about YouTube is that as we have the balance of annoying videos/channels, there are those who'll find these rare pieces. I'll be honest, I never really saw Sailor Moon and was not aware it had an unaired pilot. There must be a reason for that.

"Heavy" from 1990

A forgotten "movie" and maybe even intentionally so?

It's a boxing anime that was intended to be the beginning of a series but never went past the initial movie. Our lead is "Guy", a super strong karate student living under his drunken (But super skilled) father. We also have a co-lead, Gordon, who is an old promoter(?) that was somehow having dreams about Guy being a champion boxer before ever meeting him. Once they meet it's the usual deal where Gordon wants him to become a boxer but Guy has other goals in life. After an amusing tussle with some gang members, they retaliate and shoot Guy's father in the head, putting him in a coma. So of course causes Guy to relent and take up boxing.

This is where the movie introduces some 90s topical elements and it's not surprising it handles them very clumsily. Gordon brings in a character, Lucky Roman, as the boxing coach. He is a gay black man that appears as a transvestite in his leisure time and he is also dying of aids. The movie tries to make it this dramatic thing where you can sympathize with Lucky's shattered dreams and lament his predicament and whatnot but it's all executed in a way that comes off very hokey. You can tell they're trying to be sincere and without malice but it's 1990 Japan so, you can really only laugh or groan at the execution. =P



After some quick training, Guy's first professional match is the big finale. It starts off fine but then takes a very shounen, cutting from the fight to give you personal backstory of the opponent so you actual care about him and his own personal stakes. Then it gets weird again...and cuts to Guy having a flashback of himself as a destitute child traveling with his father. He sees a dog get run over by a truck but it's puppy survives. The father suggest they eat the dead dog and so he cooks it. Guy refuses to eat it but then the father tries to make some point by showing the puppy is eating the cooked meat of it's mother and then says if he were to die that Guy should eat him to survive...This is intended as some allegory about perseverance and never giving in/up. =P



And then the whole thing just leads to a cornball ending that will make you roll your eyes.



Oh and somewhere in all this was a hooker character (Who is depicted as a blonde on the box despite being a red) that may have been intended to become the love interest or something. We'll never know. =P


The interesting thing about this was it was directed by Noboru Ishiguro, who also directed Macross: DYRL and MegaZone 23(Among many other notables) and seems like it may be his most obscure work. Imdb and wikipedia do not list this among his works though the JP wiki and ANN does and he's definitely listed in the credits as director and storyboards. I wonder if he has tried to disassociate himself from this.

Art and animation are also very mixed. Early it seems like they were conserving budget as the art is really basic and there's a lot of sloppy drawings with cross-eyes and misaligned mouths and such. Eventually the budget kicks in during the second half and you get something that could pass for OVA quality. Ishiguro does showcase some decent budget direction during parts and manages the pace everything well. Also a lot of the art in the second half has a "Fist" vibe and Guy even sorta looks like a Kenshiro that leaned more into Bruce than Stallone. Nobody in charge of the art or animation was involved in any Hokuto productions so it would seem they were just aping the look.

What a strange movie, yet one that kept my interest all the way through, for better or worse. It was certainly more enjoyable good-bad than those Sin Karate Jigokuhen OVAs and has that charm of Japan trying to depict America (Which is definitely not politically correct). Really though, I'm honestly surprised someone subbed it. The highlight is an early fight with street punks which has our hero Kool-Aid Man'ing through a wall to jump kick a guy and then punching a thugs eye out of it's socket; which they went and used for the VHS cover. =P

I have lots of questions related the the production and release of this anime, plus I think it might be an adaption of something but unfortunately there's little to no info about it. =/

Heavy is indeed an interesting one to say the least. This is one of those which I saw on Veoh some 15 or more years ago. Veoh had a download add-on for their videos which I recall taking like 1 1/2 hours to download something that was 45-minutes long. Sounds like there was good direction but what's the story on this one? Was this like most OVAs which were pushed into animation because the 80's bubble money made any studio feel confident to adapt a manga. It's not terrible artwork and I imagine the animation is a bit smooth. We can see the turnover though that this was clearly moving away from the 1980's production levels of animation. The story seems like a common one. I can't say I've watched a boxing anime that I really enjoyed and when I first watched this in the mid-2000's on Veoh; I have no clue what I was expecting. I think the only anime I've seen depict America to a halfway believable level was Gunsmith Cats. You watch Madbull or others which seem to give an extreme depiction of NYC cops in the 80's (this wasn't just Japan...many countries see the U.S. as being just NYC and L.A.). I had fun with Madbull and Heavy...I didn't remember it until seeing this here. Gunsmith Cats hit Chicago pretty spot on. When I was growing up some pretty crazy things happened around Chicagoland (especially in the early 1990's). I'm surprised none of those things ended up in an OVA.

Would you recommend this for a watch though is the question? I don't want to add to your review as there's quite a bit said there.

 

[Space Runaway]

Unfortunately, I think I'll have to suffer through the dub - unless I haven't searched well enough to find the subbed version of Tokyo Vice. The odd thing is, when I saw the trailer for it some 16-years ago - it was the original Japanese dialogue. A few years back, I downloaded a ton of oop titles to my PS3 and specifically searched for Tokyo Vice to see if it was any good. However, that version I have says CPM dub in the title. I was not even aware it was dubbed until then, which is why I can't expect it to be very good. Although, you should check credits on those weird Pioneer or Media Blasters dubs as there are sometimes names of people who later had gone onto do voice work in video games. For instance, Moldiver and the YYH OVA dubs had roles by David Hayter. He was just doing his everyday Hayter voice though...so, I it wouldn't be expected to hear him pull off a Solid Snake voice. I'll give it a shot either way.

Yeah the AnimeWorks dvd has the subbed version which was released under the title The Tokyo Project. I don't think this OVA is anywhere near good enough to seek out and purchase just to hear the sub though. If you're gonna brave the dub, just expect something super low rent. =P

I'll be honest, I never really saw Sailor Moon and was not aware it had an unaired pilot. There must be a reason for that.

Oh there's a reason...

Heavy is indeed an interesting one to say the least. This is one of those which I saw on Veoh some 15 or more years ago. Veoh had a download add-on for their videos which I recall taking like 1 1/2 hours to download something that was 45-minutes long. Sounds like there was good direction but what's the story on this one? Was this like most OVAs which were pushed into animation because the 80's bubble money made any studio feel confident to adapt a manga. It's not terrible artwork and I imagine the animation is a bit smooth. We can see the turnover though that this was clearly moving away from the 1980's production levels of animation. The story seems like a common one. I can't say I've watched a boxing anime that I really enjoyed and when I first watched this in the mid-2000's on Veoh; I have no clue what I was expecting. I think the only anime I've seen depict America to a halfway believable level was Gunsmith Cats. You watch Madbull or others which seem to give an extreme depiction of NYC cops in the 80's (this wasn't just Japan...many countries see the U.S. as being just NYC and L.A.). I had fun with Madbull and Heavy...I didn't remember it until seeing this here. Gunsmith Cats hit Chicago pretty spot on. When I was growing up some pretty crazy things happened around Chicagoland (especially in the early 1990's). I'm surprised none of those things ended up in an OVA.

Would you recommend this for a watch though is the question? I don't want to add to your review as there's quite a bit said there.

As far as background info goes, I don't really know as there's scarce info on it. It was an adaption of the Motoka Murakami manga of the same name though it's constantly referenced as a movie and not an OVA, so it appears it got some kind of theatrical release. Why they went with the movie route to tell a multipart story, I don't know. Ambition? It definitely seems too cheap for that but maybe it's the anime equivalent of a Filmation theatrical release or something. =P The production was done by Artland who are usually an in-between studio, so them fully helming this would explain a lot of the sloppiness. And yeah, story is kinda typical if you watch sports or shounen stuff though it's permeated with outlandish aspects or things that are strange for cultural reasons.

For recommendation, it's another I can't recommend to the average viewer though someone like yourself who is willing to watch obscure or cult type stuff could find some value in it. It's not "good" but it's a quick watch, isn't boring and has some fun and interesting elements. More than I can say for a lot of these forgotten OVAs.

Spoiler

Probably the best quality you're going to find for streaming:

Heavy (1990 OVA) : Motoka Murakami : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Guy is a Japanese street-brawler in New York who chooses to train under the famed boxer, Roman, with the hopes that he can raise enough money as a heavyweight...

archive.org

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

First volume of Spriggan came in. Bro it's Bible sized.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Happosai]

Yeah the AnimeWorks dvd has the subbed version which was released under the title The Tokyo Project. I don't think this OVA is anywhere near good enough to seek out and purchase just to hear the sub though. If you're gonna brave the dub, just expect something super low rent. =P


Oh there's a reason...



As far as background info goes, I don't really know as there's scarce info on it. It was an adaption of the Motoka Murakami manga of the same name though it's constantly referenced as a movie and not an OVA, so it appears it got some kind of theatrical release. Why they went with the movie route to tell a multipart story, I don't know. Ambition? It definitely seems too cheap for that but maybe it's the anime equivalent of a Filmation theatrical release or something. =P The production was done by Artland who are usually an in-between studio, so them fully helming this would explain a lot of the sloppiness. And yeah, story is kinda typical if you watch sports or shounen stuff though it's permeated with outlandish aspects or things that are strange for cultural reasons.

For recommendation, it's another I can't recommend to the average viewer though someone like yourself who is willing to watch obscure or cult type stuff could find some value in it. It's not "good" but it's a quick watch, isn't boring and has some fun and interesting elements. More than I can say for a lot of these forgotten OVAs.

Spoiler

Probably the best quality you're going to find for streaming:

Heavy (1990 OVA) : Motoka Murakami : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Guy is a Japanese street-brawler in New York who chooses to train under the famed boxer, Roman, with the hopes that he can raise enough money as a heavyweight...

archive.org

Why would the subbed version be released as Tokyo Project. The trailers even show an animated caption with the words 'Tokyo Vice' and a Japanese announcer saying it with a little echo added to that.

I'm aware that Sailor Moon was never a quality product and I'm still not sure who their target audience was. It doesn't seem like the show you'd give to young girls, I doesn't seem like something adults would be into. There were other magical girl anime titles made which seemed to hit their target. Although, it's not my thing. The only anime I've enjoyed with a transforming magical 'girl' is Cutey Honey.

What the devil? An in-between studio took on direction animation? I guess during the OVA age anything was possible. But they'd typically choose a few bigger studios to back a project.

It's nice to have a place to find and watch/download some of these obscure titles. DM for a particularly tacky one I've been after for awhile. It's an Anime Works release but I can't find diddly on it with YouTube. They ever removed the trailer a couple years back. I'd have to assume that was due to the Japanese licensing as it likely didn't sell more than a handful of copies in the U.S./Canada.

Crunchyroll - Anime News | Crunchyroll News

www.crunchyroll.com

Page doesn't load though, I suppose there's too many people trying to reach it

Thanks for sharing this here and it's about time too. I've come across partial databases over the years but there's always some obscure title I run across which is not in the older databases.

First volume of Spriggan came in. Bro it's Bible sized.

Was it the deluxe? That one was a bit of a beast.

Huh, searched for "Dragon" to see if it listed Dragon Ball, and not only it did, but also this OVA that I never heard of

This and anime movies like Angel's Egg were heavily detailed. I liked Kenny Lauderdale's take on Dragon's Heaven too.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[HiFiVideogameMusic]

Urotsukidoji has my recommendation. Its very wholesome and is suitable for the whole family

 

[Happosai]

Urotsukidoji has my recommendation. Its very wholesome and is suitable for the whole family

Actually, I had the blu-ray years back. Had they not made it...what they did...I could have actually been a decent production. They didn't have the common since to redirect it's marketing the way they did with Dream Hunter REM. Anyway, I'd prefer this thread doesn't go down that route. Stick to blood and guts...like M.D. Giest

 

[HiFiVideogameMusic]

Stick to blood and guts...like M.D. Giest

Or Genocyber

 

[Happosai]

Or Genocyber

Same creator. There's a third in there worth checking out that's been oop for a few years called Cybernetics Guardian.

 

[Ladioss]

Huh, searched for "Dragon" to see if it listed Dragon Ball, and not only it did, but also this OVA that I never heard of

I love Dragon Heaven , I even bought the artbooks years ago. Incredible work from Makoto Kobayashi (for the setting and the designs - if you are an Armored Core ACFA fan, you probably already know his name), Shinya Ohira and all the other animators to produce something that look like a Mobius comics in motion.

Ben Ettinger did a write up on it some years ago :

Dragon's Heaven

Urotsukidoji has my recommendation. Its very wholesome and is suitable for the whole family

I've been telling people for years that La Blue Girl is a feminist masterpiece as well as a great family comedy.

 

[Happosai]

I love Dragon Heaven , I even bought the artbooks years ago. Incredible work from Makoto Kobayashi (for the setting and the designs - if you are an Armored Core ACFA fan, you probably already know his name), Shinya Ohira and all the other animators to produce something that look like a Mobius comics in motion.

Ben Ettinger did a write up on it some years ago :

Dragon's Heaven

I've been telling people for years that La Blue Girl is a feminist masterpiece as well as a great family comedy.

Question. Did Dragon's Heaven even get a N.A. DVD or blu-ray release. I've never came across the OVA until about 7-years ago.

Speaking of top quality anime movies from the 80's. I saw there was a collector's set for Venus Wars up a couple months ago. Was that a 4K release or is this the same as the blu-ray release that Discotek made in like 2015-ish.

ANIMATION REVIEW: Venus Wars (1989) (2021 Sentai Filmworks Release) Blu-Ray

Today on the Comet channel they ran a marathon of episodes from The Ray Bradbury Theater (1985-1992), and I happen to settle down with my lunch right at the beginning of “And The Moon Be Still As B…

dvdnewsflashthereviews.wordpress.com

By the way, I mentioned it once and I'll do it again...impressive animation and incredible detail...Angel's Egg

 

[HiFiVideogameMusic]

Blue Gender. One of my fav classic animes

 

[Ladioss]

Question. Did Dragon's Heaven even get a N.A. DVD or blu-ray release. I've never came across the OVA until about 7-years ago.

Not that I remember. There was a Japanese DVD edition, back in 2002 IIRC ? And it became out of stock before I was aware of it. Currently sellers are asking 23K yens for it on Amazon JP... more or less the same level than for the Birth US DVD, apparently lol.

By the way, I mentioned it once and I'll do it again...impressive animation and incredible detail...Angel's Egg

Aesthetically, a masterpiece. And at least Oshii got to recycle some of his ideas from his cancelled Lupin III movie with it.