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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!

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Kawika

Member
So I talked to the Tech. Sony has calibration rules and the rules the recommend is what he follows. He told me on the inside of the BVM there are 2 dials (1 for horizontal and 1 for vertical). I have to remove the panel and adjust these dials because, according to the tech. Sony says that it should be viewed at 1 meter and the pixels need to be round not rectangular. Obviously, most of us here who play sprite based games might want a sharper pixel over a more rounded one.

This is good news. I hope I can dial it in after work and get better results.
 

Lynd7

Member
When capturing from the UltraHDMI on the N64, I should prob leave gamma boost off right? If I am trying to get footage that is basically the N64 output but simply scaled.

Like that would be accurate? Or should it look more like it does with the boost on?
 

Timu

Member
When capturing from the UltraHDMI on the N64, I should prob leave gamma boost off right? If I am trying to get footage that is basically the N64 output but simply scaled.

Like that would be accurate? Or should it look more like it does with the boost on?
Just do some tests and see which works best.
 

gappvembe

Member
Help!
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or just don't have enough cables or adapter or what.

I bought the SNES cable & Gen. 1 Sega cables from http://retrogamingcables.co.uk

I then was hoping all I would need was a SCART to HDMI converter. Not much luck on the US Amazon site, but on the UK one, the most popular one is (so i then I found it on Amazon US):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K4GI2CC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

"XCSOURCE Mini PAL NTSC SCART to HDMI 1080P 60Hz HD Video Converter Scaler Box with USB Cable for HDTV AH198"

It powers up and in fact displays things on my screen (color bars, the words "No signal" from it not my TV, says 1080 or 720). When I turn a game on, either system, it goes black.

I could hear sound from Star Fox (SNES) and X-Men 2 (SEGA), but no picture. I tried multiple games. Two different known working HDMI cables.

Any ideas?
 

StevieWhite

Member
So I brought in a framemeister to work - we're doing a Street Fighter II tournament. We're using anniversary edition, which outputs at 480i on the PS2. This, of course leads to deinterlacing artifacts, and a couple of co-workers watched as I calibrated it. They were amazed that I even NOTICED the artifacts. Maybe ignorance is bliss, ha.

In any event, they were generally impressed by the framemeister, and were genuinely thrilled by the scanline feature (which I threw on there just for kicks). Always cool to show this stuff to non-obsessives.
 

Kawika

Member
Good news. After speaking with the Sony Tech, I was able to dial in my 20F1U to be as sharp as my xrgb. I am so happy that I was able to make that adjustment. It fixed everything. It was akin to putting on reading glasses and having everything fuzzy clear up. It only took me 5 minutes to make the needed adjustments. I can't believe how simple that was.

Just a heads up: your photos might pick up a beat frequency from the screen's refresh rate. If you're using a phone, you might find it impossible to take a photo without part of the screen being black. You can avoid this by manipulating the exposure time. I usually take photos of my PVM with a 1/15 s exposure.

LOL I forgot to take pictures again last night. Was too busy hooking things up and comparing the image quality with my eyes than documenting it for gaf.

Yeah, I was surprised at how good the Framemeister looks on my 4k (Sony 850D). I'd never gotten things to look quite right on my old 1080p Sony. It refused to stay full pixel at settings below 1080p (would always try to stretch/overscan content), and I often didn't like 240p content at 1080p output.

I was afraid the upscaled 720p output would be smeared or blurry on my new TV, but it's great. I'm sure that depends on the TV and your eyes/preferences, but I had good luck with mine. Scanlines look perfect, too, when I use them. I'm playing my old Genesis and PS1 games more now than at any point since those systems were first in circulation.

That said, if/when a 4k Framemeister is released, I'm sure I'll grab one.

I tried this on my 810c and the full pixel worked on both 720 and 1080. I just didn't like how the image looked on my Sony vs my 1080p samsung. My Sony has some issues so I am likely going to do a warranty claim when the 2017 sets arrive. This is my 2nd Sony 4K that has display issues. I think I am done with Sony as a TV manufacturer.
 
They were amazed that I even NOTICED the artifacts. Maybe ignorance is bliss, ha.

It absolutely is. I exchanged my new TV after a day of having it because I noticed what I presumed to be some sort of defect in the corner of the panel, turned out to be an issue with a particular mastering of an HDR show.

It's true, once seen, you can't unsee.
 
So I brought in a framemeister to work - we're doing a Street Fighter II tournament. We're using anniversary edition, which outputs at 480i on the PS2. This, of course leads to deinterlacing artifacts, and a couple of co-workers watched as I calibrated it. They were amazed that I even NOTICED the artifacts. Maybe ignorance is bliss, ha.

In any event, they were generally impressed by the framemeister, and were genuinely thrilled by the scanline feature (which I threw on there just for kicks). Always cool to show this stuff to non-obsessives.

How did you calibrate it?
 

StevieWhite

Member
Nothing fancy, the usual stuff (picture mode to natural, adjusting the scaling). Used the settings from Implant Games as a base reference.
 

khaaan

Member
I was just thinking today, would anyone be interested in a "Retro book Gaming Club"? I'm still trying to sort out the logistics but it would be fun to play some old games in a bit of a coordinated manner. Here's what I was thinking of:

  • Platform Survey to determine how many are interested and what's available to the majority of people
  • Retro probably means capped at PS2/Xbox/Gamecube games
  • Option A: Group self-curates a list of games to go through
  • Option B: A handful of people create a list made up of both heavy hitters and hidden gems
  • Option C: Some kind of mix of A and B but influenced by what's on sale or easily obtainable
  • At the beginning of each month a list of ~3 games are posted so if someone doesn't like a game or doesn't have access to one of the platforms they can get something on another
  • Amount of games in the pick could rise or fall depending on how long it takes on average to beat
  • Some genre balancing so we're not in a month where the only option is massive RPG's
  • People can choose to go through as many of the month's picks as they like
  • Accessing the game would be on the individual, but attempts would be made to steer away from titles not easily accessible.
  • During that month people can share progress updates and their thoughts on the game
  • Repeat with a new batch of games for the next month

So what do you guys think? I like the idea because it feels like it could bring back some of the new release excitement to older titles. I also have plenty of older titles that I bought but never started or only got a little bit into. My only concern is the lack of interest or activity, there's a lot of good retro stuff available digitally and for quite cheap but I'm not comfortable asking someone to spend their money. If anyone is interested in discussing logistics or like the idea then I'm all ears.
 

dubc35

Member
^ Good idea. It's currently being done in the Genesis/MD and NES OT's. I think SNES has not yet due to the inflating prices of those games. Perhaps 'housing it' in the main Retro thread might increase participation.

super late edit, sorry I thought this was Retro-GAF not the Retro AV Club
 
I was just thinking today, would anyone be interested in a "Retro book Gaming Club"? I'm still trying to sort out the logistics but it would be fun to play some old games in a bit of a coordinated manner. Here's what I was thinking of:

  • Platform Survey to determine how many are interested and what's available to the majority of people
  • Retro probably means capped at PS2/Xbox/Gamecube games
  • Option A: Group self-curates a list of games to go through
  • Option B: A handful of people create a list made up of both heavy hitters and hidden gems
  • Option C: Some kind of mix of A and B but influenced by what's on sale or easily obtainable
  • At the beginning of each month a list of ~3 games are posted so if someone doesn't like a game or doesn't have access to one of the platforms they can get something on another
  • Amount of games in the pick could rise or fall depending on how long it takes on average to beat
  • Some genre balancing so we're not in a month where the only option is massive RPG's
  • People can choose to go through as many of the month's picks as they like
  • Accessing the game would be on the individual, but attempts would be made to steer away from titles not easily accessible.
  • During that month people can share progress updates and their thoughts on the game
  • Repeat with a new batch of games for the next month

So what do you guys think? I like the idea because it feels like it could bring back some of the new release excitement to older titles. I also have plenty of older titles that I bought but never started or only got a little bit into. My only concern is the lack of interest or activity, there's a lot of good retro stuff available digitally and for quite cheap but I'm not comfortable asking someone to spend their money. If anyone is interested in discussing logistics or like the idea then I'm all ears.

Baring cost, I am down for this.
 
Nothing fancy, the usual stuff (picture mode to natural, adjusting the scaling). Used the settings from Implant Games as a base reference.

Oh, just turning on deinterlacing. I was hoping you had some way to treat the 480i output as 240p and just ignore the scanline offset pulses that I wasn't aware of.
 

StevieWhite

Member
Oh, just turning on deinterlacing. I was hoping you had some way to treat the 480i output as 240p and just ignore the scanline offset pulses that I wasn't aware of.

I wish, ha, Nope, just turned it to natural. Zoomed the picture and whatnot too, which also weirdly blew their mind.
 
^ Good idea. It's currently being done in the Genesis/MD and NES OT's. I think SNES has not yet due to the inflating prices of those games. Perhaps 'housing it' in the main Retro thread might increase participation.

I figured there wasn't an SNES one because it's inferior.
 
Good news. After speaking with the Sony Tech, I was able to dial in my 20F1U to be as sharp as my xrgb. I am so happy that I was able to make that adjustment. It fixed everything. It was akin to putting on reading glasses and having everything fuzzy clear up. It only took me 5 minutes to make the needed adjustments. I can't believe how simple that was.

Wow Sony still offer support on PVMs? I had no idea.
 
I was just thinking today, would anyone be interested in a "Retro book Gaming Club"? I'm still trying to sort out the logistics but it would be fun to play some old games in a bit of a coordinated manner. Here's what I was thinking of:

  • Platform Survey to determine how many are interested and what's available to the majority of people
  • Retro probably means capped at PS2/Xbox/Gamecube games
  • Option A: Group self-curates a list of games to go through
  • Option B: A handful of people create a list made up of both heavy hitters and hidden gems
  • Option C: Some kind of mix of A and B but influenced by what's on sale or easily obtainable
  • At the beginning of each month a list of ~3 games are posted so if someone doesn't like a game or doesn't have access to one of the platforms they can get something on another
  • Amount of games in the pick could rise or fall depending on how long it takes on average to beat
  • Some genre balancing so we're not in a month where the only option is massive RPG's
  • People can choose to go through as many of the month's picks as they like
  • Accessing the game would be on the individual, but attempts would be made to steer away from titles not easily accessible.
  • During that month people can share progress updates and their thoughts on the game
  • Repeat with a new batch of games for the next month

So what do you guys think? I like the idea because it feels like it could bring back some of the new release excitement to older titles. I also have plenty of older titles that I bought but never started or only got a little bit into. My only concern is the lack of interest or activity, there's a lot of good retro stuff available digitally and for quite cheap but I'm not comfortable asking someone to spend their money. If anyone is interested in discussing logistics or like the idea then I'm all ears.
NES and GB "clubs" have happened before and interest dies pretty quick.
 
Aw yeah, my Garo finally arrived! Can't wait to try it out tomorrow after I pick it up from the post office. 480p Gamecube/Wii here we come
 

Wounded

Member
With regards to the OG Xbox, what is everyone's preference for connecting it to a TV?

With the PS2 I find my CRT usually makes everything look better than my LCD, but obviously the Xbox is more powerful and I don't find has the aliasing issues the PS2 has.
 
With regards to the OG Xbox, what is everyone's preference for connecting it to a TV?

With the PS2 I find my CRT usually makes everything look better than my LCD, but obviously the Xbox is more powerful and I don't find has the aliasing issues the PS2 has.

Component cables, preferably OEM ones. Anything less than that and you're stuck with 480i and the Xbox's thick ass flicker filter (which doesn't even provide any benefit if you're using an LCD).
 

Wounded

Member
Component cables, preferably OEM ones. Anything less than that and you're stuck with 480i and the Xbox's thick ass flicker filter (which doesn't even provide any benefit if you're using an LCD).

Interesting, I have a component cable (bought ages ago but seems fine). I was gonna grab an RGB cable to test but I'm not so sure now.
 

televator

Member
I believe the xbox requires a modded BIOS to run in VGA mode. I still haven't found what color space the Xbox renders in before it sends frames to the encoder. So I'm not even sure if there's any actually befefit to image quality in making an Xbox output VGA.

The factory RGB SCART output is also fucked by the flicker filter. Component really is currently the best option.
 
Im pretty sure some people use VGA with their OG xbox but i'm not sure the details of that as I don't even own one.

I believe the xbox requires a modded BIOS to run in VGA mode. I still haven't found what color space the Xbox renders in before it sends frames to the encoder. So I'm not even sure if there's any actually befefit to image quality in making an Xbox output VGA.

The factory RGB SCART output is also fucked by the flicker filter. Component really is currently the best option.

You need:
  1. A non-1.6 rev Xbox
  2. A modchip
  3. A bios on that modchip to switch the output pins from YPbPr to RGB
  4. internally (or externally via modifying a cable) add an LM1881 chip to get correct sync info
  5. mount a dsub-15 to the case or modify an existing AV cable to have the right pins

You can find details here. Some of that is out of date but you can pretty figure out which parts.

Also depending on what you hook it up to if it can't do 480i you're going to find some trouble.

(I looked into it before just making my own component cable... honestly that's way easier)
 

Galdelico

Member
Component cables, preferably OEM ones.
Any reason why the OEM cable is preferable, over third party ones? Better IQ or does it offer more? I just checked and - of course - it goes for quite alot of money on eBay (60/90USD). Just for curiosity's sake, as I own a PAL XBOX and, from what I understood, I'd need to mod my console anyway, which unfortunately isn't really an easy thing to do, around here.
 

Peagles

Member
Any reason why the OEM cable is preferable, over third party ones? Better IQ or does it offer more? I just checked and - of course - it goes for quite alot of money on eBay (60/90USD). Just for curiosity's sake, as I own a PAL XBOX and, from what I understood, I'd need to mod my console anyway, which unfortunately isn't really an easy thing to do, around here.

Just soft mod. It's super easy. Once I ordered a couple of bits and bobs online it was a piece of cake to mod my PAL Xbox. Hardest bit was finding a compatible USB drive.
 

Bendo

Member
Help!
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or just don't have enough cables or adapter or what.

I bought the SNES cable & Gen. 1 Sega cables from http://retrogamingcables.co.uk

I then was hoping all I would need was a SCART to HDMI converter. Not much luck on the US Amazon site, but on the UK one, the most popular one is (so i then I found it on Amazon US):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K4GI2CC/?tag=neogaf0e-20

"XCSOURCE Mini PAL NTSC SCART to HDMI 1080P 60Hz HD Video Converter Scaler Box with USB Cable for HDTV AH198"

It powers up and in fact displays things on my screen (color bars, the words "No signal" from it not my TV, says 1080 or 720). When I turn a game on, either system, it goes black.

I could hear sound from Star Fox (SNES) and X-Men 2 (SEGA), but no picture. I tried multiple games. Two different known working HDMI cables.

Any ideas?
Amazon UK reviews is full of people complaining that the scaler straight up doesn't work for them. Hard to say if your device is faulty or straight up poorly made.

Even if it did work I guarantee the quality would be garbage, 240p treated as 480i is never going to look good. It might be slightly better colors than composite, but with the quality of that device I wouldn't bank on it.

The scaler you actually want is the OSSC, they're somewhat pricey and there's a waiting list, but it's the best quality you're going to get short of buying a CRT. Barring that I'd look into S-Video for your SNES if your TV supports it, the colors will be much better than composite and the cables are dirt cheap.
 
Any reason why the OEM cable is preferable, over third party ones? Better IQ or does it offer more? I just checked and - of course - it goes for quite alot of money on eBay (60/90USD). Just for curiosity's sake, as I own a PAL XBOX and, from what I understood, I'd need to mod my console anyway, which unfortunately isn't really an easy thing to do, around here.
The third party ones are almost all cheaply and improperly made junk. I don't even know how they can make something that broken considering all you need is decently shielded wire hooked up to the right pins but they found a way.

The last one I bought had really bad sync and color issues. The one before that broke mysteriously and had noise problems.
 

gappvembe

Member
Amazon UK reviews is full of people complaining that the scaler straight up doesn't work for them. Hard to say if your device is faulty or straight up poorly made.

Even if it did work I guarantee the quality would be garbage, 240p treated as 480i is never going to look good. It might be slightly better colors than composite, but with the quality of that device I wouldn't bank on it.

The scaler you actually want is the OSSC, they're somewhat pricey and there's a waiting list, but it's the best quality you're going to get short of buying a CRT. Barring that I'd look into S-Video for your SNES if your TV supports it, the colors will be much better than composite and the cables are dirt cheap.

I was just hoping to get a decent picture out of it. Last time I had the sega hooked up, it seemed like there was lots of blurryness, I had it hooked up to the RF jack.

Pricey is not the avenue I want to go, but maybe eventually. I can't recall at the moment if my tv has s-video or not.
Thanks
 

Galdelico

Member
Just soft mod. It's super easy. Once I ordered a couple of bits and bobs online it was a piece of cake to mod my PAL Xbox. Hardest bit was finding a compatible USB drive.

Thanks!
Yeah, another fellow gaffer suggested me to follow the same route, a couple of months ago, but I didn't even have the console hooked-up, back then, so I read and then quickly forgot about it. Now that I'm finally setting everything up with the OSSC, I may take a deeper look into it again. Even though, I must confess, with the OEM RGB cable, no passthrough and scanlines somewhere in between 35/50% - to mask the flicker a bit - I'm already getting a noticeably better RGB picture, compared to what I used to see on my Trinitron TVs (I'm aware it's probably like comparing a turd to a nicely shaped turd... What I mean is, I can tell the difference).

The third party ones are almost all cheaply and improperly made junk. I don't even know how they can make something that broken considering all you need is decently shielded wire hooked up to the right pins but they found a way.

The last one I bought had really bad sync and color issues. The one before that broke mysteriously and had noise problems.

Oh yeah, got it. I've personally experienced the same issues on the PS2, with a crappy component cable (noise & artifacts galore) vs a Sony-branded one.

I was just hoping to get a decent picture out of it.
I don't mean to sound like a knob, but you should really trust people who have a strong post-history on threads like this one (or similar ones on Shmups, which is also 100% gaming-oriented). Devices like that Amazon converter have been already covered, here, and proved to be mediocre at best every single time. It's not really a matter to be purists or hawkeyes... They are objectively poor. Sure they come cheap, but you immediately found out something was wrong with yours. I realize it's easy to get excited by a couple of positive reviews on Amazon, but really - if you don't plan to throw at least a couple of hundreds euros/dollars into your AV setup - you may consider to even save the few bucks needed to buy a converter, and just hook up your console straight up to your TV (the way my old Viera HDTV used to display the Saturn and the PS2, for example, was totally acceptable).
 

Wounded

Member
The third party ones are almost all cheaply and improperly made junk. I don't even know how they can make something that broken considering all you need is decently shielded wire hooked up to the right pins but they found a way.

The last one I bought had really bad sync and color issues. The one before that broke mysteriously and had noise problems.

With regards to the OEM cable, what does it actually look like? If you Google it a few different images come up claiming to be the original cable.
 
With regards to the OEM cable, what does it actually look like? If you Google it a few different images come up claiming to be the original cable.

There are two that I know of. One had a box you would connect your own component cables to, the other was just an huge Xbox AV terminal w/ TOSlink port to component RCA jacks.

I'm really surprised retro SCART cable makers haven't gotten around to making component cables. The UK site even has Xbox SCART cables, which is... arguably useless, but no component cables.
 

dubc35

Member
There are two that I know of. One had a box you would connect your own component cables to, the other was just an huge Xbox AV terminal w/ TOSlink port to component RCA jacks.

I'm really surprised retro SCART cable makers haven't gotten around to making component cables. The UK site even has Xbox SCART cables, which is... arguably useless, but no component cables.

Those are the only two I have seen as well. I have the one with the Toslink port and really like it.
 

gappvembe

Member
I don't mean to sound like a knob, but you should really trust people who have a strong post-history on threads like this one (or similar ones on Shmups, which is also 100% gaming-oriented). Devices like that Amazon converter have been already covered, here, and proved to be mediocre at best every single time. It's not really a matter to be purists or hawkeyes... They are objectively poor. Sure they come cheap, but you immediately found out something was wrong with yours. I realize it's easy to get excited by a couple of positive reviews on Amazon, but really - if you don't plan to throw at least a couple of hundreds euros/dollars into your AV setup - you may consider to even save the few bucks needed to buy a converter, and just hook up your console straight up to your TV (the way my old Viera HDTV used to display the Saturn and the PS2, for example, was totally acceptable).

I've been emailing someone at retrogamingcables since this morning. He says it's because the converter I bought, doesn't support the scart side having a RGB input. If it doesn't work out, I'll go down another avenue.
 

Crynox

Neo Member
Thanks!
Yeah, another fellow gaffer suggested me to follow the same route, a couple of months ago, but I didn't even have the console hooked-up, back then, so I read and then quickly forgot about it. Now that I'm finally setting everything up with the OSSC, I may take a deeper look into it again. Even though, I must confess, with the OEM RGB cable, no passthrough and scanlines somewhere in between 35/50% - to mask the flicker a bit - I'm already getting a noticeably better RGB picture, compared to what I used to see on my Trinitron TVs (I'm aware it's probably like comparing a turd to a nicely shaped turd... What I mean is, I can tell the difference.

If you softmod your Xbox and load the games thru Xbmc you can turn off the filter and soften settings, then you will get the perfect RGB experience. It's much better.
 

Peltz

Member
I've been emailing someone at retrogamingcables since this morning. He says it's because the converter I bought, doesn't support the scart side having a RGB input. If it doesn't work out, I'll go down another avenue.

My honest philosophy is, if you want to play your old console on an HDTV, go with only the expensive stuff that gamers are recommending. If you want to save money, go with emulation.

There's no reason to go with a cheap offbrand converter on amazon or ebay that we all try to warn people about. Those crappy devices are always going to be less authentic than emulation... which is free. They truly have no place in a gaming setup.

Either you go full authentic with your hardware by investing the money the right way, or you go full emulation. The only acceptable middle ground between those two extremes is simply connecting your console straight up to your HDTV and hoping for the best. It will be at least as good as any off-brand device.

There's simply no reason to waste money on untested stuff not built for gaming. There are no "hidden jewels" of hardware out there when it comes to scaling/converting video signals. Trust me on that.
 
Either you go full authentic with your hardware by investing the money the right way, or you go full emulation. The only acceptable middle ground between those two extremes is simply connecting your console straight up to your HDTV and hoping for the best. It will be at least as good as any off-brand device.

There's simply no reason to waste money on untested stuff not built for gaming. There are no "hidden jewels" of hardware out there when it comes to scaling/converting video signals. Trust me on that.
I still want to do some testing but I think 240p over HDMI is a "hidden jewel" of connecting all this shit up.

I already have a setup to make this happen but it's a bit more complicated.

I ordered a $6 converter that I think will have the right chip for this to test (I want to check compatibility and image quality) but I honestly don't expect to have it in hand until late February or maybe March. I figured for $6 why not -- worst case scenario I have a way to hook up VGA devices when that connector's no longer available on modern monitors.
 
Good news. After speaking with the Sony Tech, I was able to dial in my 20F1U to be as sharp as my xrgb. I am so happy that I was able to make that adjustment. It fixed everything. It was akin to putting on reading glasses and having everything fuzzy clear up. It only took me 5 minutes to make the needed adjustments. I can't believe how simple that was.

Mind going into what you did? Just for future reference.
 
If you softmod your Xbox and load the games thru Xbmc you can turn off the filter and soften settings, then you will get the perfect RGB experience. It's much better.

I can vouch for this, reducing the flicker filter and loading games off the hard drive were the two big reasons I softmodded in the first place. Setting the filter to 1 (the lowest with it on) will result in a good picture for 480i on a CRT, comparable to the Gamecube's filter intensity. Obviously if you're using an LCD it will look best at 0 (off).
 

Galdelico

Member
If you softmod your Xbox and load the games thru Xbmc you can turn off the filter and soften settings, then you will get the perfect RGB experience. It's much better.
If it's not allowed here, PM is fine... Is there any comprehensive walkthrough that covers both the softmodding process and also explains all the extra features/video settings? I'm not interested in playing backups, as I'd rather use my original PAL and US games if possible. I'm not terribly excited about the prices of OEM component cables for the XBOX, but I guess I should start looking around for one, hey? :)
 
this is all kinda debatable.
My honest philosophy is, if you want to play your old console on an HDTV, go with only the expensive stuff that gamers are recommending. If you want to save money, go with emulation.
There are issues with emulation. Saturn, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, Xbox, N64 emulation is inconsistent or nonexistent, and even better emulated consoles such as SNES have incompatibilities, inaccuracies, and hacks to make it work.

There's no reason to go with a cheap offbrand converter on amazon or ebay that we all try to warn people about. Those crappy devices are always going to be less authentic than emulation... which is free. They truly have no place in a gaming setup.
"Less authentic than emulation" when one is using real hardware and one is not is nonsensical. Moreover, for players who don't care about input lag, they may find that a budget transcoder or even scaler is actually sufficient for their needs. Especially if they don't care for scanlines and are apathetic about having perfect scaling.

Either you go full authentic with your hardware by investing the money the right way, or you go full emulation. The only acceptable middle ground between those two extremes is simply connecting your console straight up to your HDTV and hoping for the best. It will be at least as good as any off-brand device.
there are many acceptable middle grounds. Budget transcoders/scalers, internal mods to both a console or a tv, buying a cheap secondary tv, etc. etc.

There's simply no reason to waste money on untested stuff not built for gaming. There are no "hidden jewels" of hardware out there when it comes to scaling/converting video signals. Trust me on that.
Most of these devices have been tested. Their faults are largely understood if you're willing to do some research. Indeed, most of these cheap devices are one of a small handful of devices, rebranded. Their issues are, generally, that they don't actually take RGB (in the case of SCART -> HDMI boxes), however with some of these this can be modified trivially. Moreover, as Sheepy said and as others have sought out, there is a dirth of good research as to TV compatibility with offspec systems, as shown by the various quirks discovered in the development and feedback with the OSSC.

Like, I get what you're talking about and I largely agree, but your terms are too strong for basically no reason. People here won't be recommending a poor quality 50$ scaler, because it does have many issues, but if someone just simply can't afford a framemeister or OSSC or similar, and wants to play, say, a PS2 title on their HDTV, telling them "just emulate" when that is nearly as obtuse and presents entirely different problems, is ignorant, reductionist, and ultimately bad advice.
 
tbh if this thread could adapt the motto "Always read before you buy" and just tape it to every post in the thread, that would solve most of the problems.
 

Wounded

Member
Got an S-Video cable for my PS1. I know it's not as good as an RGB Scart cable, however I was having trouble displaying NTSC games (my TV is PAL) correctly, the right hand side of the image was cut off.

S-video however has sorted this problem and everything displays as it should. Well worth the buy, and honestly I'm not sure I'd notice the difference.
 
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