I've got a old 720p LCD from 2009 that I use for my old systems (it's my only option right now). It takes S-Video and I currently have my SNES hooked up with S-Video and it looks noticeably better than composite. I currently have my GameCube hooked up via composite. Is it worth it to also hook up the GC with S-Video as well?
I've got a old 720p LCD from 2009 that I use for my old systems (it's my only option right now). It takes S-Video and I currently have my SNES hooked up with S-Video and it looks noticeably better than composite. I currently have my GameCube hooked up via composite. Is it worth it to also hook up the GC with S-Video as well?
Would the N64 benefit as greatly from S-Video as well? I may be remembering wrong, but I believe I heard it doesn't handle anything but composite or modded RGB very well.
Also, which is better for playing PS1 games? A PS3 over HDMI, a PS2 over component, or a PS1 over S-Video?
I don't know enough on the topic but I know the PS3 is a bad option because it won't allow 240p over HDMI. PS2 can't play some titles but I don't much about the visual front of stuff. I remember my old PS2 couldn't play the MK Trilogy properly but anything else I wanted to play that I threw at it worked fine. I also didn't have component cables back when I used to use my PS2 for PS1 games.
Curious as to what didn't you like about the FM? I don't have one (on OSSC waiting list) but interested to know, lag? image quality? 240p/480i resolution switching delay?
Would the N64 benefit as greatly from S-Video as well? I may be remembering wrong, but I believe I heard it doesn't handle anything but composite or modded RGB very well.
Also, which is better for playing PS1 games? A PS3 over HDMI, a PS2 over component, or a PS1 over S-Video?
PS2 over component is the best option. That will provide the original 240p signal the games were designed for. The lowest resolution PS3 can output is 480i.
Would the N64 benefit as greatly from S-Video as well? I may be remembering wrong, but I believe I heard it doesn't handle anything but composite or modded RGB very well.
Also, which is better for playing PS1 games? A PS3 over HDMI, a PS2 over component, or a PS1 over S-Video?
PS2. Your savegames are on a real PS1 memory card that is compatible with a PS1 if you want so. It has a better overall compatibility than the PS3, too. There are a few games that won't run on a PS2, but you probably don't want to play them either.
this is the only real difference, though, is the point. The difference in sharpness without some sort of deblur is extremely minor. I actually am ambivalent about the color differences, too. I find s-video doesn't look any worse, just different.
keep in mind that direct capture can be misleading. There's just as much variance in the way capture cards interpret data as there is in televisions and monitors. So, while it's extremely useful for demonstrating differences between video signals like this due to the lack of human element (taking pictures, lighting, etc. can all obfuscate the actual differences between signals), it doesn't really do a great deal better at determining exactly how two signals are different, just that there is, as a matter of fact, a difference.
idk why i'm bothering to write this, im in one of those moods. But the point is that direct capture isn't really any more of an authority than most other means of demonstrating a difference between video signals, and as it's extremely rare that you would need to capture via two differing video signals (svideo and rgbs in this instance) and show them side by side, the difference between the two just... doesn't matter much.
That said, I think there are other very valid reasons to look in to RGBs on the N64. It simplifies many set ups, for example. The OSSC does not offer Svideo inputs so it requires some sort of conversion unless you mod the console. Additionally, having a single switch for your PS1/2, SNES, NES, N64, Genesis, Saturn, etc. can be a massive boon in cable management and reduction of the actual barrier to playing your games. That in itself is worth the relatively easy and cheap mod, imo.
I actually rambled for way further than I even realized. Like I said, one of those moods. I'm not criticizing you, just musing.
keep in mind that direct capture can be misleading. There's just as much variance in the way capture cards interpret data as there is in televisions and monitors. So, while it's extremely useful for demonstrating differences between video signals like this due to the lack of human element (taking pictures, lighting, etc. can all obfuscate the actual differences between signals), it doesn't really do a great deal better at determining exactly how two signals are different, just that there is, as a matter of fact, a difference.
idk why i'm bothering to write this, im in one of those moods. But the point is that direct capture isn't really any more of an authority than most other means of demonstrating a difference between video signals, and as it's extremely rare that you would need to capture via two differing video signals (svideo and rgbs in this instance) and show them side by side, the difference between the two just... doesn't matter much.
That said, I think there are other very valid reasons to look in to RGBs on the N64. It simplifies many set ups, for example. The OSSC does not offer Svideo inputs so it requires some sort of conversion unless you mod the console. Additionally, having a single switch for your PS1/2, SNES, NES, N64, Genesis, Saturn, etc. can be a massive boon in cable management and reduction of the actual barrier to playing your games. That in itself is worth the relatively easy and cheap mod, imo.
I actually rambled for way further than I even realized. Like I said, one of those moods. I'm not criticizing you, just musing.
Anyone know if the OSSC's 720p output works with the Panasonic VT60 plasmas?
I'm considering getting one after attempting to play Jackal for the NES on mine with the Framemeister.. The lag made it basically unplayable. Playing it on my PVM was like night and day.
Still cropped at the sides, with the Saturn. It's perfect with the Mega Drive/Mega CD, but for some reason, even after fiddling with H-active settings, there are still two colums of a few pixels each, cut off left and right (with the h-mask set to zero, of course). Am I doing anything wrong?
Anyone know if the OSSC's 720p output works with the Panasonic VT60 plasmas?
I'm considering getting one after attempting to play Jackal for the NES on mine with the Framemeister.. The lag made it basically unplayable. Playing it on my PVM was like night and day.
If the VT60 is anything like my ST50? No, it doesn't handle any of the line multipliers and you'll have to resort to using the passthrough options... and it probably will not work for 240p either (only 480i/480p).
I agree the VT60 is the lag culprit. Each succeeding generation of Panny plasmas had more lag than the last. A quick look around the net shows yours to have 48~ ms. Add in the FM lag of 16ms and that'll make a difference. On my end, I can just start to notice 40ms of lag from my ST50 even with the near 0ms lag from the HDMI-modded Nintendo consoles. If I'm playing emulators on Wii HBC, they seem to add 8-16ms on top which is really good on a CRT but becomes a bit of a nuisance on the plasma.
PS2 over component is the best option. That will provide the original 240p signal the games were designed for. The lowest resolution PS3 can output is 480i.
Yep. It's four things: two separate passes of AA, a horizontal blur, and texture filtering.
And a fifth*: the softness of a CRT. All combined make it impossible to see a difference between the two signal types.
*a possible sixth: if all the above N64 quirks were removed it's possible the N64's raw RGB is soft like most SNES's and not sharp like a Genesis or modded NES. Who knows.
If you care that much, etim's N64RGB board does it's own analog encoding of the digital line inside the N64, and has the option to reverse the blur filter. You'd still have anti-aliasing, but if you're uh crazy you could turn that off too.
Yep. It's four things: two separate passes of AA, a horizontal blur, and texture filtering.
And a fifth*: the softness of a CRT. All combined make it impossible to see a difference between the two signal types.
*a possible sixth: if all the above N64 quirks were removed it's possible the N64's raw RGB is soft like most SNES's and not sharp like a Genesis or modded NES. Who knows.
I wonder why Nintendo wanted such a soft look. They also deliberately did not support RGB for the console despite having RGB output support in the SNES. It's like they really didn't want any perceptible aliasing at all, no matter the cost.
i think it helps the textures look more detailed and natural. the lack of sharp polygons i think really hurts it, though. You're probably right that was the intent, though, regardless of how I feel about the blurriness.
I wonder why Nintendo wanted such a soft look. They also deliberately did not support RGB for the console despite having RGB output support in the SNES. It's like they really didn't want any perceptible aliasing at all, no matter the cost.
From what I understand, RGB was omitted from the N64 because it was by far the least used connection with the Super Famicom in Japan.
One can only assume that these dire filters were implemented to make the composite image look... better, I guess? But yeah, RGB out of the 64 was extremely underwhelming (largely) when I had my first modded unit.
It's been demonstrated that removing the AA improves framerates. Nintendo must have had their priorities elsewhere (smooth, non-jaggied visuals) when you consider how choppy a lot of games played and that they really could've used those extra frames.
Yep. It's four things: two separate passes of AA, a horizontal blur, and texture filtering.
And a fifth*: the softness of a CRT. All combined make it impossible to see a difference between the two signal types.
*a possible sixth: if all the above N64 quirks were removed it's possible the N64's raw RGB is soft like most SNES's and not sharp like a Genesis or modded NES. Who knows.
Are there any projects underway (if it's possible) to get raw RGB out of the N64? This seems like the next logical step in the N64 modding meta to take if it can theoretically be done.
Are there any projects underway (if it's possible) to get raw RGB out of the N64? This seems like the next logical step in the N64 modding meta to take if it can theoretically be done.
Curious as to what didn't you like about the FM? I don't have one (on OSSC waiting list) but interested to know, lag? image quality? 240p/480i resolution switching delay?
I mean, it's OK - I don't hate the thing, but it's a lot of money for something that still ends up with worse results than either a CRT or Emulaiton.
It's about a billion times better than plugging an old console directly into a modern TV, but falls short of just getting a CRT for all the reasons you listed. If you absolutely need to use a modern TV, and you're also set on using original hardware, it's a perfectly fine route to take.
Curious as to what didn't you like about the FM? I don't have one (on OSSC waiting list) but interested to know, lag? image quality? 240p/480i resolution switching delay?
I don't like the way it handles any non-240p game (i.e. 480i/p).
Plus, upscaling of 240p, while clean, basically just looks like an emulator, but slightly less crisp. Plus it adds input lag (although really not much). And the colors aren't as vibrant as I think they should be with faux scanlines enabled.
It also requires too much fiddling - far more fiddling than a CRT - to make look good. And it doesn't handle N64 games well at all in my humble opinion due to the blurring mentioned earlier on this page. For some reason, that console really needs a CRT to look right.
So for me, a CRT gives off a far nicer image overall. Framemeister is great, but just not my preferred method of consuming retro games. I love the way PS1 games, SNES games and Genesis games look on it. But it still can't beat a quality CRT for authenticity.... (then again, nothing can).
If we're just talking IQ, the number of boxes that will get you quality like an emulator is.... basically nill. Digital HDMI mods are about as good as it gets right now, and they're at best comparable.
I think my PC CRT is dying once in a while after a long slumber it used to do that thing, but it does it every time now today. After waking up, the picture gets deformed in very short burst (no more than a couple of lines) with an audible pop, as if something was hitting the glass from inside. Turning it off for a few seconds so that it discharges used to cure it for the rest of the day, but today it started doing it after a couple of minutes every time. If I don't turn it off immediately, the effect goes crescendo. I don't want to test what would happen If I left it on. I'm scared of what will happen tomorrow.
Still cropped at the sides, with the Saturn. It's perfect with the Mega Drive/Mega CD, but for some reason, even after fiddling with H-active settings, there are still two colums of a few pixels each, cut off left and right (with the h-mask set to zero, of course). Am I doing anything wrong?
Still cropped at the sides, with the Saturn. It's perfect with the Mega Drive/Mega CD, but for some reason, even after fiddling with H-active settings, there are still two colums of a few pixels each, cut off left and right (with the h-mask set to zero, of course). Am I doing anything wrong?
Sony eventually "threw in the towel" on Trinitron, ending production in Japan some time in 2004. In 2006, Sony announced that it would no longer market or sell Trinitrons in the USA or Canada, but continue to sell the Trinitron in China, India, and regions of South America using tubes delivered from their Singapore plant. Production in Singapore finally ended in March 2006, only months after ending production of their rear-projection systems.[18] Two lines of the factory were later brought back online to supply the professional market.
If we're just talking IQ, the number of boxes that will get you quality like an emulator is.... basically nill. Digital HDMI mods are about as good as it gets right now, and they're at best comparable.
What don't you like about its handling of 480i? It's pretty much as good as you can get with ~1.5ms lag.
You're right. My statement isn't really fair as written. Let me unpack what I meant:
These days, I generally don't like the way 480i looks on anything other than a CRT. It's something that really is designed for CRT tech and it ends up looking noisy on everything else.
Although I really love the way my old Panasonic Plasma (RIP) handled 480i (it looked exactly like 480p somehow) it definitely felt very laggy. Yet it had no noise. I'm not sure what processing was used, but it automatically made me not like my XRGB Mini because it cannot process it the same way, but still does a good job at displaying 480i as properly and authentically as possible with minimal lag.
I still do think the Mini does a shit job with 480p though. So I basically never use it with anything other than 240p sources at this point.
The power cable I ordered for my SCART Supergun finally arrived from China. It powers on but the picture on my PVM is just a few colors blurring across the screen and there's no sound. Is this likely an issue with the cheap SCART extension cable I bought a few years ago and had no reason to use until now?
My setup is basically this:
SCART -> gscartsw -> SCART-to-BNC -> PVM
EDIT: It occurred to me immediately after posting this that I had a SCART cable I knew worked (i.e. the one that connects to the PVM). It's still blurry. I'm guessing this is a sync issue. This is what it looks like.
I got it off of ebay from RetroelectroniK. The user has good feedback and they've sold quite a few of them so I'm sure it's something simple so hopefully I can get it worked out. I've asked them for help so we'll see.
I tried it with 3 games: TMNT, Shinobi (using a System 16->JAMMA converter) and Shadow over Mystara. All of these games have worked fine in my cabinet but my cabinet's monitor is dying so I figured using my PVM would be a great alternative.
once in a while after a long slumber it used to do that thing, but it does it every time now today. After waking up, the picture gets deformed in very short burst (no more than a couple of lines) with an audible pop, as if something was hitting the glass from inside. Turning it off for a few seconds so that it discharges used to cure it for the rest of the day, but today it started doing it after a couple of minutes every time. If I don't turn it off immediately, the effect goes crescendo. I don't want to test what would happen If I left it on. I'm scared of what will happen tomorrow.