Mine is en route. Wondering if anyone has thoughts on a cable to use? I was hoping that retro_console_accessories would be willing to make one but haven't heard back...
Anyone have any opinions about this Portta PETCSHP AV/ CVBS Composite RCA + S-Video to HDMI converter/upscaler? I keep hearing of some good upscalers like the Framemeister, but they turn out to be $300+, which is just way too expensive for me. I'd say at the moment, maybe $100 would be my limit.
I'd mainly be using it for GCN, SNES, Dreamcast, N64, maybe Genesis (assuming I can find something that isn't RF or those pitchforks), & possibly a Saturn once I buy one since I've been putting it off until I get something that'll make it look nice on a HDTV instead of all washed out (GCN looks horrible via composite cables on my TV, looked slightly better via component cables via Wii).
I know it won't be the best quality since I'd need to aim for SCART or VGA, but even S-video seems like it'd be a decent way to start & based on the OP, is a nice step up over composite since it doesn't look so blurry, though I'll have to see where I can get the cables to do S-video or higher quality since I've only had composite, component, or HDMI as inputs all my gaming life.
Any help is appreciated to slowly put me in the right path to getting my older systems to look better on my 43" HDTV.
Anyone have any opinions about this Portta PETCSHP AV/ CVBS Composite RCA + S-Video to HDMI converter/upscaler? I keep hearing of some good upscalers like the Framemeister, but they turn out to be $300+, which is just way too expensive for me. I'd say at the moment, maybe $100 would be my limit.
I'd mainly be using it for GCN, SNES, Dreamcast, N64, maybe Genesis (assuming I can find something that isn't RF or those pitchforks), & possibly a Saturn once I buy one since I've been putting it off until I get something that'll make it look nice on a HDTV instead of all washed out (GCN looks horrible via composite cables on my TV, looked slightly better via component cables via Wii).
I know it won't be the best quality since I'd need to aim for SCART or VGA, but even S-video seems like it'd be a decent way to start & based on the OP, is a nice step up over composite since it doesn't look so blurry, though I'll have to see where I can get the cables to do S-video or higher quality since I've only had composite, component, or HDMI as inputs all my gaming life.
Any help is appreciated to slowly put me in the right path to getting my older systems to look better on my 43" HDTV.
Alright. If I had the money, I'd get the Framemeister since I've heard a ton of good things about it (recently via Giant Bomb's podcast), but then saw the price & realized I wasn't going to be able to own one anytime soon. If anything, if I found one that did the job decently enough, then I'd probably feel more motivated to upgrade to a Framemeister eventually. Just something to introduce me to the world of upscaling at a more convenient price.
I found a site that seems to compare different upscalers, I'll look through those & see which one would be the best value. Though considering how many there are, it's part of the reason why I figured asking here would help, to ensure I don't buy a cheap one that barely does anything.
I almost was going to take an older Sony CRT (I want to say it was late '80s, maybe 1988, Trinitron series) that my dad had just sitting in the basement, but despite telling him I might eventually take it, he put it out by the road & someone else took it.
I don't really have the space in my apartment, but having a TV dedicated to older game consoles might be a better idea compared to trying to bundle everything around my HDTV, it's just figuring out where I would actually put it. I'll have to keep an eye out on garage sales & perhaps look into our local audio/video store & see if they've got anything. Not sure how lucky I'll get with those professional CRTs mentioned in the OP, but maybe something will pop up.
I think maybe what I should do is hook up a few of my retro consoles, take a few pictures, buy that upscaler I'm eyeing on Amazon, then see if I can compare the quality. Even if it's as small of an improvement as a GCN game on a Wii via component cables vs. GCN via composite, it would make the $40 worth it just to make things not seem as washed out/faded.
Alright. If I had the money, I'd get the Framemeister since I've heard a ton of good things about it (recently via Giant Bomb's podcast), but then saw the price & realized I wasn't going to be able to own one anytime soon. If anything, if I found one that did the job decently enough, then I'd probably feel more motivated to upgrade to a Framemeister eventually. Just something to introduce me to the world of upscaling at a more convenient price.
I found a site that seems to compare different upscalers, I'll look through those & see which one would be the best value. Though considering how many there are, it's part of the reason why I figured asking here would help, to ensure I don't buy a cheap one that barely does anything.
Fudoh's site is a great resource... I'm sure most of us read that guy's page.
I'd skip that upscaler you plan to buy. Of course, you're going to buy it anyway. Then you're going to come back here and realize that you should've taken my advice. It's part of the process. Enjoy the journey.
By the way, I made a pretty startling discovery about the Famicom AV vs. the NES toaster... their composite output is completely different. So much so, that I may actually make a separate thread about it with comparison shots.
Famicom AV is far less saturated, less colorful, sharper, and has less dot crawl.
NES composite has far deeper/richer colors, but more hideous "rainbow" effect, more noise, less clarity, and way more dot crawl.
I'm plugging them into the same exact input on my PVM and not adjusting any settings, yet getting completely different looking output. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that after seeing the Famicom AV's output again, the original Wii Virtual Console's palette configuration makes a lot more sense. It's a far less "bright" image and it's clearly modeled after the Famicom AV more than any other NES hardware.
I just made this discovery because I recently bought an NES to Famicom converter and so I was able to play the same games on both sets of hardware for the first time. I was so startled when I just wanted to test the converter, and was greeted with a very very clean looking image that I was never able to get from my North American NES.
oh duh, that page I linked was in the OP as well. I should probably look into those other links as well.
I probably will skip out on that upscaler I found since the ones people recommend are much higher & this would probably feel like a "knock-off" or super cheap in comparison. Part of me wanted to buy it just so I could convince myself to finally hook up some of my older systems & buy a Saturn since I want to play & buy some older titles, but I know consoles like GCN look awful connected directly via composite (I don't want to bother with GCN component cables & finding an older model that actually supports it).
Guess I need to accept it's going to be costly if I want stuff to look nice on my HDTV or just look for a CRT & figure out where to keep it.
oh duh, that page I linked was in the OP as well. I should probably look into those other links as well.
I probably will skip out on that upscaler I found since the ones people recommend are much higher & this would probably feel like a "knock-off" or super cheap in comparison. Part of me wanted to buy it just so I could convince myself to finally hook up some of my older systems & buy a Saturn since I want to play & buy some older titles, but I know consoles like GCN look awful connected directly via composite (I don't want to bother with GCN component cables & finding an older model that actually supports it).
Guess I need to accept it's going to be costly if I want stuff to look nice on my HDTV or just look for a CRT & figure out where to keep it.
Alternatively, buy the scaler and see if you're content with it, with the intent to return if you're not. Like cyborg said.
Don't let people in this thread talk you out of a scaler if you know your budget can't afford a Framemeister or OSSC. They're worth a shot, especially given there's a dearth of data. I'm only able to afford the boxes I've got because I'm a privileged motherfucker without many expenses. Not everyone is so fortunate.
Anyone have any opinions about this Portta PETCSHP AV/ CVBS Composite RCA + S-Video to HDMI converter/upscaler? I keep hearing of some good upscalers like the Framemeister, but they turn out to be $300+, which is just way too expensive for me. I'd say at the moment, maybe $100 would be my limit.
Found a mini review on YouTube, looks decent but you might have to set your TV to 4:3 to fix the aspect ratio. https://youtu.be/P6-QYZ8h4Es
I have a couple of Portta HDMI-to-analog converter-upscalers. They're honestly fine, although YMMV as these aren't functionally the same as the device youre looking at. Portta itself is just rebranding generic converters sourced from China... but at least the one you're considering looks to be from the same decent manufacturer as mine and that could mean it isn't random garbage.
Thanks for the link, I tuned in right about when they were ending lol. Oh well I can go back and watch it later (I think they said it would be archived).
Thanks for the link, I tuned in right about when they were ending lol. Oh well I can go back and watch it later (I think they said it would be archived).
I'm not really 100% happy with the S-Video from my Super Famicom to Framemeister, so i want to get an RGB cable. Thing is, my Saturn currently occupies the JP21 port and the connection is so solid, that it takes a serious yank to pull it out, and i'm worried if I have to do this over and over again i'll run the risk of damaging the port or cables.
Is that unfounded or a real risk? I could get another Framemeister RGB adapter cable as well, since it's a lot easier to plug in and out. Bit more of a wallet burden is making me think i should just stick with S-Video though.
yeah, seeing Mzo's FDS in person...the composite signal felt night and day from that of a US NES toaster. just way cleaner, kinda how you'd hope it would be (and typically is, on non NES/genesis systems)
I'm not really 100% happy with the S-Video from my Super Famicom to Framemeister, so i want to get an RGB cable. Thing is, my Saturn currently occupies the JP21 port and the connection is so solid, that it takes a serious yank to pull it out, and i'm worried if I have to do this over and over again i'll run the risk of damaging the port or cables.
Is that unfounded or a real risk? I could get another Framemeister RGB adapter cable as well, since it's a lot easier to plug in and out. Bit more of a wallet burden is making me think i should just stick with S-Video though.
People will tell you that it is a risk but I've done it hundreds if not thousands of times with a hard soldered socket and it isn't an issue. Just be careful and make sure to pull it out without stressing the pins up or down (so a clean pull) and I think you'll be just fine.
Best without breaking the bank would be S-Video or SCART, depending on whether you have PAL or NTSC. Latency depends on which TV model you have, but my 2013 Panasonic ST60 has in excess of 60ms IIRC; that years models were particularly bad.
I'm not really 100% happy with the S-Video from my Super Famicom to Framemeister, so i want to get an RGB cable. Thing is, my Saturn currently occupies the JP21 port and the connection is so solid, that it takes a serious yank to pull it out, and i'm worried if I have to do this over and over again i'll run the risk of damaging the port or cables.
Is that unfounded or a real risk? I could get another Framemeister RGB adapter cable as well, since it's a lot easier to plug in and out. Bit more of a wallet burden is making me think i should just stick with S-Video though.
This. Get a Euro SCART cable for the Saturn, because you don't want to continue down that needlessly expensive JP21 rabbit hole if you can help it, get the Euro SCART adapter for your Framemeister, then get a gscartsw.
This. Get a Euro SCART cable for the Saturn, because you don't want to continue down that needlessly expensive JP21 rabbit hole if you can help it, get the Euro SCART adapter for your Framemeister, then get a gscartsw.
I don't doubt you, but for $220 i'd expect so! I'm in Japan so JP21 is easy and cheap for me to find - and Super Famicom is the only other machine i'll be bothering with, so a switch isn't worth the investment for me.
yeah, seeing Mzo's FDS in person...the composite signal felt night and day from that of a US NES toaster. just way cleaner, kinda how you'd hope it would be (and typically is, on non NES/genesis systems)
It really is like night and day. It's kind of annoying that there's no standard "correct" NES image. Every piece of hardware seems to output something different.
Anyone have any experience with PC Engine RGB mods?
I have a problem that my RGB mod is as best I can tell done correctly using a board from mickris. This board amplifies R,G,B, with sync intended to come from composite or TTL sync from pin 44 of the hu6260 chip. I have tried both of these, plus I tried using a lm1881 sync stripper on the composite signal, but my TV is just blinking in and out of sync when it tries to display the RGB image.
I'm doing this with my 240p HDMI box and I'm pretty sure it's just being picky about sync. Composite works just fine direct to my TV but when used as sync it's doing the same blinky thing.
Is it well known that the PC engine puts out an odd sync signal? Is there anything I can do to fix that up?
Are there any modern monitors that have HDMI out? As in, you could input HDMI or similar, and whilst displaying that signal, have it also be sent to a capture card? It occurs to me this would really simplify my set up but I don't think I've heard of it in PC monitors.
My monitor does that - BenQ RL2460HT. HDMI Out is also handy if you wanted to play a fighting game 2 player back to back like in the arcades. This model has a screen swivel for vertical shooters as well, i've had no problems with lag either, and its not very expensive. I'd really recommend it!
My monitor does that - BenQ RL2460HT. HDMI Out is also handy if you wanted to play a fighting game 2 player back to back like in the arcades. This model has a screen swivel for vertical shooters as well, i've had no problems with lag either, and its not very expensive. I'd really recommend it!
That looks pretty good. Definitely noted. The dilemma I have is that, in theory, I'd like a 120/144hz monitor with good OSSC compatibility AND the HDMI out. Probably gonna be one of those things that I have to compromise on, despite it being such an elegant solution.
Best without breaking the bank would be S-Video or SCART, depending on whether you have PAL or NTSC. Latency depends on which TV model you have, but my 2013 Panasonic ST60 has in excess of 60ms IIRC; that years models were particularly bad.
I have a problem that my RGB mod is as best I can tell done correctly using a board from mickris. This board amplifies R,G,B, with sync intended to come from composite or TTL sync from pin 44 of the hu6260 chip. I have tried both of these, plus I tried using a lm1881 sync stripper on the composite signal, but my TV is just blinking in and out of sync when it tries to display the RGB image.
I don't think so cause the composite works just fine direct to my TV with the same setup, and things don't work with that hooked up as sync.
I might try hooking the THS amp board up to an external power source at least. I have it right on a leg of a 7805 so it should be getting plenty but it's worth a shot.
That's why i think it's a power issue. At least when you tried with lm1881. If the composite works, that means sync signal is fine. So lm1881 should work too, unless it's underpowered. Or the sync is hella weak, not stable. You could also try 220uf cap on sync line as a filter/signal booster of sorts.
EDIT: Found something on shmups forums.
Contact Tim Worthington and request an order of his AV-DRIVER. It has a CSYNC buffer specifically designed for the CSYNC output from the Hu6260, and proper RGB buffering for the RGB output from the Hu6260. The RGB output from a THS 6db amp like the one you're using outputs too high of a video signal. The AV-DRIVER addresses this issue with solder jumpers for setting the correct level of amplification and provides AC-biased input operation so that you don't crush darker colors due to the high DC offset from the Hu6260 on the RGB lines.
That's why i think it's a power issue. At least when you tried with lm1881. If the composite works, that means sync signal is fine. So lm1881 should work too, unless it's underpowered. Or the sync is hella weak, not stable. You could also try 220uf cap on sync line as a filter/signal booster of sorts.
Thanks, I was thinking about a cap on the sync output but I got kinda tired of tinkering with this over and over with no success. If I find some time in the next couple days I could try that first, try an external power line, and if there's no result either just wait on a better RGB setup or buy an Tim's board.
That looks pretty good. Definitely noted. The dilemma I have is that, in theory, I'd like a 120/144hz monitor with good OSSC compatibility AND the HDMI out. Probably gonna be one of those things that I have to compromise on, despite it being such an elegant solution.
You may have read it on SHUMPS thread, but I'll post it here too, for further investigation. I had to momentarily get back to my older Asus, for retro gaming, because I experienced a very odd issue with my IPS LG 27MU67.
I still don't know if it had to do with its specific response time/overdrive settings, but on that monitor I couldn't play anything from interlaced sources (PS2, XBOX, GameCube and also 480i Saturn/PS games). Having the OSSC set to 'bob' for those systems (as I don't really like what it does with passthrough), each and every piece of stationary, flickering graphics left a temporary 'mark' on the screen, after a couple of minutes.
Examples: lifebars in fighting games (Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn, KoF Maximum Impact Regulation A on the PS2), as well as UI in racing games (the laps/times in Ridge Racer V on the PS2)... All those elements caused a visible 'ghosting' effect, ranging from a faint flickery area only noticeable against white backgrounds, to proper image retention on other solid colors (after playing Virtua Fighter 2 for ten minutes, you could clearly see the trace of the lifebars on the sky, during Shun Di's intro). Once again, the effect was temporary, but made me quite wary of even using anything that could potentially damage the screen on the long run.
Luckily enough, my trusty Asus 24" - even with its less than stellar TN panel - handles deinterlaced/flickering graphics no problem, so for now I'm set.
Just out of curiosity - and since I still plan to retire the Asus eventually, and replace it with an IPS 1080p PC monitor - anyone here with an OSSC, a similar display and some 480i games can check that out and report?
I must say, though, XBOX360 and the PS3 look stunning on the LG, and that alone makes me feel like I want to go through their entire libraries once again, lol.
So what is everyone using for HDMI settings for OSSC, I mean in regards to "Full" "Limited" "Low "Normal" that sort of thing?
On my Samsung, when I use "Normal" colours are pumped up and blacks are black, but the image seems a bit blown out and colors maybe TOO vibrant; however when I use "Low" colors are a smidge dull, but blacks are like a dark gray - this leads me to believe the "Normal" is the way to go, but still doesn't seem right. Is there a setting on OSSC that affects color?
The display has been calibrated BTW, and not on torch mode or anything. Any thoughts?
You may have read it on SHUMPS thread, but I'll post it here too, for further investigation. I had to momentarily get back to my older Asus, for retro gaming, because I experienced a very odd issue with my IPS LG 27MU67.
I still don't know if it had to do with its specific response time/overdrive settings, but on that monitor I couldn't play anything from interlaced sources (PS2, XBOX, GameCube and also 480i Saturn/PS games). Having the OSSC set to 'bob' for those systems (as I don't really like what it does with passthrough), each and every piece of stationary, flickering graphics left a temporary 'mark' on the screen, after a couple of minutes.
Examples: lifebars in fighting games (Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn, KoF Maximum Impact Regulation A on the PS2), as well as UI in racing games (the laps/times in Ridge Racer V on the PS2)... All those elements caused a visible 'ghosting' effect, ranging from a faint flickery area only noticeable against white backgrounds, to proper image retention on other solid colors (after playing Virtua Fighter 2 for ten minutes, you could clearly see the trace of the lifebars on the sky, during Shun Di's intro). Once again, the effect was temporary, but made me quite wary of even using anything that could potentially damage the screen on the long run.
Luckily enough, my trusty Asus 24" - even with its less than stellar TN panel - handles deinterlaced/flickering graphics no problem, so for now I'm set.
Just out of curiosity - and since I still plan to retire the Asus eventually, and replace it with an IPS 1080p PC monitor - anyone here with an OSSC, a similar display and some 480i games can check that out and report?
I must say, though, XBOX360 and the PS3 look stunning on the LG, and that alone makes me feel like I want to go through their entire libraries once again, lol.
I am not sure how many people here on this forum have an ossc. I have been asking a lot about it lately and only a few posters respond. I think most people here are crt, framemeister, both or looking to do something.
From what I hear about the OSSC the results aren't consistent with every display and people are having more luck with pc monitors than lcds.
The ASUS monitors seem to have better compatibility than basically anything else. I'd stick with that brand if you intend to use it with the OSSC. My monitor handles both the bob deinterlaced signal and passthrough (which the monitor deinterlaces) well. It's an older TN ASUS, though. I think Chacranajxy has a newer ASUS which he's had good experiences with, as well.
So what is everyone using for HDMI settings for OSSC, I mean in regards to "Full" "Limited" "Low "Normal" that sort of thing?
On my Samsung, when I use "Normal" colours are pumped up and blacks are black, but the image seems a bit blown out and colors maybe TOO vibrant; however when I use "Low" colors are a smidge dull, but blacks are like a dark gray - this leads me to believe the "Normal" is the way to go, but still doesn't seem right. Is there a setting on OSSC that affects color?
The display has been calibrated BTW, and not on torch mode or anything. Any thoughts?
You may have read it on SHUMPS thread, but I'll post it here too, for further investigation. I had to momentarily get back to my older Asus, for retro gaming, because I experienced a very odd issue with my IPS LG 27MU67.
I still don't know if it had to do with its specific response time/overdrive settings, but on that monitor I couldn't play anything from interlaced sources (PS2, XBOX, GameCube and also 480i Saturn/PS games). Having the OSSC set to 'bob' for those systems (as I don't really like what it does with passthrough), each and every piece of stationary, flickering graphics left a temporary 'mark' on the screen, after a couple of minutes.
Examples: lifebars in fighting games (Virtua Fighter 2 on the Saturn, KoF Maximum Impact Regulation A on the PS2), as well as UI in racing games (the laps/times in Ridge Racer V on the PS2)... All those elements caused a visible 'ghosting' effect, ranging from a faint flickery area only noticeable against white backgrounds, to proper image retention on other solid colors (after playing Virtua Fighter 2 for ten minutes, you could clearly see the trace of the lifebars on the sky, during Shun Di's intro). Once again, the effect was temporary, but made me quite wary of even using anything that could potentially damage the screen on the long run.
That's strange -- I don't understand why games via the OSSC would cause a image retention issues, but static bars in computer/OS UI-elements wouldn't do the same? I use an OSSC with my plasma, and I am pretty wary of IR, but after a certain point I decided to just enjoy my electronics, as my display is going to die eventually anyway. So as long as I'm not reckless, it should be alright. I hope.
That's strange -- I don't understand why games via the OSSC would cause a image retention issues, but static bars in computer/OS UI-elements wouldn't do the same? I use an OSSC with my plasma, and I am pretty wary of IR, but after a certain point I decided to just enjoy my electronics, as my display is going to die eventually anyway. So as long as I'm not reckless, it should be alright. I hope.
I am not sure how many people here on this forum have an ossc. I have been asking a lot about it lately and only a few posters respond. I think most people here are crt, framemeister, both or looking to do something.
From what I hear about the OSSC the results aren't consistent with every display and people are having more luck with pc monitors than lcds.
The ASUS monitors seem to have better compatibility than basically anything else. I'd stick with that brand if you intend to use it with the OSSC. My monitor handles both the bob deinterlaced signal and passthrough (which the monitor deinterlaces) well. It's an older TN ASUS, though.
Yeah, same here. It's an old VW246H, and it handles interlaced sources quite well. I'll definitely stick with Asus, next time - not that I regret purchasing the LG, though... It does a wonderful job with last generation consoles, and I may get a PS4 Pro as well, in the future, so it will get used - I'm just not sure what I should look for, in order to avoid the issue I had with flickering graphics. Should I go for another TN panel? An IPS 144hz? I'm pretty much clueless...
That's strange -- I don't understand why games via the OSSC would cause a image retention issues, but static bars in computer/OS UI-elements wouldn't do the same?
As NormalFish said, the issue seems the flickering, not the OSSC. I can play SEGA Saturn's Virtua Fighter 2 for ages, on my older Asus connected to the OSSC (set to bob deinterlace), and nothing happens. Same settings on the LG, and I get the 'burn-in-like' effect after 5 minutes. Similarly, I can leave a 240p screen on pause forever, with the LG, without experiencing any image retention at all, afterwards.
I wonder what is the other factor that triggers the temporary burn-in, though... The IPS screen? The 4K resolution? The specific response time of my monitor? Its refresh rate? That's what I'll try to figure out before buying the next one.
- I'm just not sure what I should look for, in order to avoid the issue I had with flickering graphics. Should I go for another TN panel? An IPS 144hz? I'm pretty much clueless...