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Retro AV Club Thread 2: Classic Gaming Done Right!
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I'm not too sure either.
Granted, that LG isn't the pinnacle in its category, and cost me half the price asked for a 27" Rog Swift, but reviews are pretty great all around (on Prad and similarly well respected websites), and it's not even two years old, in terms of production. Xyga himself encouraged me towards that model, on another thread.
Seems a bit odd that, all of a sudden - due to it being pants with 480i and screen flicker - the same monitor gets downgraded to 'cheap hunk of plastic' level. That's why I'd like to investigate further and am looking for feedbacks. I'm not in a hurry - plus, I don't plan to drop another 400 euros - so anything goes, really.
Ha, I see.
If true, huge bummer you can spend that kind of money and still get lower quality than expected/described.
It's all good, though. Useful experience in perspective of the next purchase.
NormalFish
Banned
could be a panel quality lottery like many screens.
Danexmurder
Member
I haven't been playing regularly but I can say that SNES through a framemeister looks amazing on my LG B6. I haven't quite dialed in what I like with my Analogue NT though. Stuff looks a little too blurry in game mode, and if I turn on true motion it just looks weird.
Nice. Yeah I have a c6 and was curious about the image retention with the pillar boxing and scanlines, and if that's anything to be concerned about. My gut tells me the pillar boxing shouldn't be much of an issue, though probably best to avoid extended sessions, while scanlines might be best left off...Though I could be totally wrong on all that.
Just tried out the 240p test suite, and colors looked... normal? I mean everything looked as it should, however I did notice on the color pluge that blues and reds the scaliness (18%) barely show up - but the colors don't appear too vivid? When I boot up lets say Sonic The Hedgehog, blues and reds and whites are super vivid, and do appear blown out as well.
You are right, my panel was calibrated for modern consoles/blu-ray. My panel can also switch between full and limited.
I'm sure certain people prefer the vivid colors, and I like punchy colors as well, but I feel i'm losing detail because of it. I guess i'm just going to have to play around with it some more.
Danexmurder
Member
I wouldn't worry about the pillar boxing really. Scanlines I'd probably leave off myself but you can always run the panel cleanup when you turn the TV off.
You said it best yourself -- just avoid extended sessions with pillar boxing. Play for an hour at a time, and then chase it with full screen, non-static content for 15-30 mins or so. I was concerned about the same thing with my plasma, but at a certain point you just need to accept that you aren't going to baby your electronics, just be reasonable with them. Of the two, the pillar boxing would be harder on your set than the scanlines.
Got an email this morning, it looks like the next batch of OSSC's will be ready to ship soon. I should be in this batch...now to decide if I pull the trigger or not. Given my lack of gaming time lately and my TV only supports 2x (I have a monitor that probably does 5x) I think I may pass.
davidwhangchoi
Member
i got the e-mail too. i might get it even though i may only have have a general idea of what it does. i read the articles a few of you linked to me about OSSC way back but for some reason, i can't recall much except it's cheaper than a framemeister.
i better read up on it again =)
Danexmurder
Member
I'm really wondering when we're going to see the first batch of 4K upscalers come out.
I wonder the same about 4k capture cards.
Triforce141
Member
Same, budget issues won't allow me to get an OSSC, might settle with the HD Retrovision cables for better picture quality.
NormalFish
Banned
the primary difference between the OSSC and the Framemeister, ignoring cost and aesthetic, is that the OSSC is a linedoubler and the framemeister is a scaler. What that means, for the end user, is that the OSSC takes an analogue signal (say, 320x240p via euro SCART), then multiplies each axis some number of times (2x for 480p, 3x for 720p, 4x for 960p, 5x for 1200p) and converts it to a digital (in this case DVI) output. The OSSC offers a pretty large array of settings for optimizing this process, but everything it does essentially boils down to this. Well, it also offers bob-deinterlacing and pass through options, but those aren't why you're buying it.
The framemeister, on the other hand, can scale just about any input to various DVI and HDMI standard resolutions. Instead of simply multiplying the axis, the framemeister allows the user to stretch and manipulate the image however they like. This is why the framemeister's options menus are a rabbit hole and there's such a community for optimal settings profiles.
In the end, the value of both is contingent upon what's important. Barring the unfortunate existence of some noise in the Framemeister's inputs and processing, it generally can produce a sharper (or less sharp, if that's what you want) picture. However, you're looking at a pretty consistent 1.5 frames (~20-30ms) lag across all content. While this probably won't bug you if using a low lag display, on a monitor that already has a few frames worth of lag, it'll really start to add up. Also, the framemeister offers impeccable compatibility in terms of output, since it essentially normalizes the input signal so it conforms to HDMI standards. This is something that the OSSC doesn't offer, and the inconsistent compatibility is the result. To balance this out, many people (not including myself, i'm rather ambivalent) think of the OSSC as being more plug-and-play, and therefore an easier solution for getting their retro gaming fix with quality on a modern display.
Really it's a matter of what you want. Read Fudoh's site. Read the Shmups thread. Read the VGP forums.
IrishNinja
Member
this is an OP-worthy quote right here, or at least something to save for the inevitable repeats of this question. well said man.
davidwhangchoi
Member
thanks NormalFish, freakin super helpful. I have a pioneer kuro (151fd) it's super laggy so this might be cool
NormalFish
Banned
So i finally updated my OSSC. looks like my monitor really does take literally everything I can throw at it. line 4x, and 5x are perfect.
Here's my best attempt at photography. My phone is shit and I've got nothing better:
I know you have a nice BVM, david, so these boxes aren't as useful to you. If you're looking to expand your set up to a modern display, however, they're as good as you're gonna get. I also am of the opinion that a quality LCD monitor + OSSC is more or less flawless in terms of image quality, and easily rivals CRTs in terms of lag, since the small amount (literally a few ms or less) is just frankly not noticeable for any mortal being.
Here's my best attempt at photography. My phone is shit and I've got nothing better:
Glad to be of service.
I know you have a nice BVM, david, so these boxes aren't as useful to you. If you're looking to expand your set up to a modern display, however, they're as good as you're gonna get. I also am of the opinion that a quality LCD monitor + OSSC is more or less flawless in terms of image quality, and easily rivals CRTs in terms of lag, since the small amount (literally a few ms or less) is just frankly not noticeable for any mortal being.
Edit: lol beaten
My Life in Gaming has put up their video on the NT Mini and its jailbroken firmware that lets it simulate other systems.
https://youtu.be/uMwBxL5ZlGw
The recent thread on the future of physical media got me thinking about how the PSP is the worst popular gaming machine in terms of hardware quality and longevity. I barely used my 3000 and its UMD drive has problems reading games. Used games I picked up a while back were falling apart (flimsy disc casing) or didn't work at all. Anecdotally I'd say the entire platform is aging horribly.
My Life in Gaming has put up their video on the NT Mini and its jailbroken firmware that lets it simulate other systems.
https://youtu.be/uMwBxL5ZlGw
The recent thread on the future of physical media got me thinking about how the PSP is the worst popular gaming machine in terms of hardware quality and longevity. I barely used my 3000 and its UMD drive has problems reading games. Used games I picked up a while back were falling apart (flimsy disc casing) or didn't work at all. Anecdotally I'd say the entire platform is aging horribly.
NormalFish
Banned
Well, that might be the case with the PSP if you're playing all your games from UMDs, but if you take homebrew in to account, I imagine I'll be getting usage out of my PSP for many many years.
Yeah, it's not really the kind of system where you want to frequently skip out on getting CIB and very good to mint condition games. The casings are delicate, which is ironic because they are supposed to protect the disc. Dirt and debris can get into them and cleaning the actual surface of the disc is a PITA because of the case as well. I also hate how horrendous the dithering is on the system. Not a good look on a modern TV.
davidwhangchoi
Member
Definitely. I'm just a litte disappointed when in 2016 I fished out my PSP from a drawer, gifted one Christmas and very lightly used, and picked up a bunch of cheap games from the local brick and mortar. Most don't work, the PSP battery bloated and had to buy a new one, the UMD door is finicky and feels like it might break and the whole thing feels a lot cheaper than I remember.
My original DS phat, although ugly, feels like a solid tank in contrast and has no problems despite seeing a ton of use before I got a DS Lite. That Lite unit also has years of heavy wear (Ouendans, EBA) and is still alive and kicking.
I only had the 4GB pack-in Pro Duo card, so I did order a 64GB SD card with Pro Duo adapter and plan to get around to doing the homebrew thing again. Would love to finish Chinatown Wars, my first GTA and the most time I ever put into a game in the series... got so sidetracked from the story playing the fun drug dealing game.
Should mention I did get the official Component out cables but the way that works on my HD CRT, letterboxed 480p, is pretty small and a disappointment. I haven't thought to try since I got a component adapter plug for my plasma or the OSSC, but it'll probably be too small on that bigger screen too... windowed 540p? Blah.
My original DS phat, although ugly, feels like a solid tank in contrast and has no problems despite seeing a ton of use before I got a DS Lite. That Lite unit also has years of heavy wear (Ouendans, EBA) and is still alive and kicking.
I only had the 4GB pack-in Pro Duo card, so I did order a 64GB SD card with Pro Duo adapter and plan to get around to doing the homebrew thing again. Would love to finish Chinatown Wars, my first GTA and the most time I ever put into a game in the series... got so sidetracked from the story playing the fun drug dealing game.
Should mention I did get the official Component out cables but the way that works on my HD CRT, letterboxed 480p, is pretty small and a disappointment. I haven't thought to try since I got a component adapter plug for my plasma or the OSSC, but it'll probably be too small on that bigger screen too... windowed 540p? Blah.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Not buying a spare NIB PSP while they were still going for cheap is one of my bigger regrets at the moment. I feel like I'm going to feel the same way about Wii U if I don't order a white "refurbished" one before Nintendo stops selling those.
As an audio stickler, I actually don't mind it. It doesn't sound like lesser quality or garbbled nonsense and the synth nature of the expansion music makes close enough approximations not stick out like a sore thumb. I actually like having low pass filters removed on real hardware anyway so I can hear things more clearly. So I don't find it inferior, just different. I can see how this can be a problem for the 100% analog authenticity chasers though.
What monitor do you own, if you don't mind me asking?
What game is that?
Speaking of PSP, I decided I'm cool with never owning one. I play a lot of those games on Vita and prefer to be all digital on Sony platforms anyway. Their digital sales are too good to pass up. I have countless games for PSP, PS3, and PS4, and other than paying for PS Plus, I rarely drop more than $10 for a game.
NormalFish
Banned
Asus VW246
Alundra. I wish I had thought to rummage through my things for my memory card since the intro boat sequence just isn't as attractive as the rest of the game.
davidwhangchoi
Member
Hey Retro AV Club,
i found a 1chip snes today. i asked in the store if i can open it up and the guy was super nice and let me =)
i found a 1chip snes today. i asked in the store if i can open it up and the guy was super nice and let me =)
kingbean
Member
That's cool. I didn't know that was a thing. Now I've got to replace my UN2 SNES.
Ahh, the same I own.
After what I found out with my new LG and interlaced graphics, I'm trying to figure out if there's a safe method to upgrade from something like our Asus, to basically the same - in terms of compatibility/stability - only 27" and possibly IPS.
polyh3dron
Banned
Don't buy from scalpers, Solaris will come through for you.
Hey Retro AV Club,
i found a 1chip snes today. i asked in the store if i can open it up and the guy was super nice and let me =)
Sweeeeet.
I have an SHVC CPU 01. My understanding is it has the cleanest audio out of the OG SNES versions, but loses out to the 1chip on picture quality.
I looked around for a 1chip but ended up picking up an SNES mini instead with the intent to RGB mod it. Haven't gotten around to it yet though.
That's the plan, I'd rather wait a little than give money to scalpers. None of their prices beat buying direct anyway!
Out of curiosity, does anyone know how one is supposed to hook up mono correctly? I have a PVM with mono-sound on it, and while I normally use optical-to-headphones, occasionally I like to use regular sound on the monitor.
The problem is, none of my system manuals describe how to actually hook mono up properly. Do I just leave the White-audio (left) hanging? Do I use an adapter and combine them?
The problem is, none of my system manuals describe how to actually hook mono up properly. Do I just leave the White-audio (left) hanging? Do I use an adapter and combine them?
Get a decent pair of desktop speakers and you're set with stereo sound. Don't bother with the mono sound from the tiny PVM speaker.
bodine1231
Member
I'll buy it from you and kick in some extra money
I'm like in the 2100's so I wont get it for a very long time,help a fellow Retrogafer out!
Just use a nice soundbar,most of them come with Stereo inputs. The Vizio ones go on sale on Amazon all the time and usually come with a sub as well,they sound amazing when used with older consoles and the PVM!
Hey Retro AV Club,
i found a 1chip snes today. i asked in the store if i can open it up and the guy was super nice and let me =)
Lucky you...
I jsut bought a UN03 Snes, asked the buyer if I can open it and he refused.
It's not a 1chip Snes.
And the AC adapter port is broken....
And the controller doesn't work...
Oh well.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Is it legitimately getting harder to get a good condition SNES or is the price bubble just idiots gouging?
I think it's a combo of both, tbh.
I just use one of those mini Bluetooth speakers since they all can take an auxiliary cord. Things like the Echo or JBL Flip3. Great sound and highly mobile and flexible.
The snes shell was so poorly manufactured, it is super hard to find one without yellowing and chipped plastics.
kingbean
Member
Hey Retro AV Club,
i found a 1chip snes today. i asked in the store if i can open it up and the guy was super nice and let me =)
I found one at a local place and I paid 25 for it and I got lucky.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
I've never seen a bad condition SNES mini and though it requires a mod, the RGB output is the best, so I'd suggest looking for one of those.
I got a modded one off eBay for like 30 bucks.
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