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[BorkBork]

my question is how well rumble will work with all these functions. Could rumble throw off precision of aiming/twisting/pointing?

I was just thinking that would be kind of a cool feature to have in a FPS or survival horror game. Boss roars or sends shockwaves at ya, throws your aim off a bit. OR Sniping you can feel your hand shaking from the rumble, so pop a pill ala MGS to steady yourself. SWEET!

 

[jgkspsx]

First.. I called this 4 years ago when Nintendo "heavily invested" in Gyration.
http://www.gyration.com/intl/uk/pr-nintendo_uk.htm

Gyration gyros aren't solid state, they're not cheap, they're not durable enough for little kids to play with, they can lose calibration, and I doubt they have nearly enough production capability. They were one option that Nintendo invested in, but not the option they went with.

If the two gyros aren't solid-state ICs (as seen in Wario Ware Twisted for crying out loud), I'll eat my hat

 

[nightez]

Oh yeah I heard the Rev controller is using GPS techology to figure out its positioning in space.

 

[jgkspsx]

How is movement of the controller detected?

We use Bluetooth technology to communicate between the controller and what we call a 'sensor bar', which has two little sensors on it that are maybe a foot apart. These sensors can be detached from the bar and they can be above the TV or below the TV - it doesn't really matter.

There's really no set-up other than just putting the bar by the TV. There's no calibration for size or type of TV or anything like that.

Well. That seems pretty definitive

Except I don't believe for a second it would work, and he's not a technical guy, and they have nothing to gain by helping the competition reverse-engineer. But I can't wait to see what happens!

 

[Shao]

I'm actually really confused lol. How does it know how big your TV is etc? Also some concern over the rumble, and hope the analogue bit has rumble too and doesn't require more batteries!

 

[GaimeGuy]

I'm actually really confused lol. How does it know how big your TV is etc? Also some concern over the rumble, and hope the analogue bit has rumble too and doesn't require more batteries!

The size of your TV only affects the size of the graphics displayed, not the sensitivity of the controls.

Does the dual analog control in, say, Halo change if you play on a 15 inch monitor or a 52 inch plasma screen? No.

 

[jgkspsx]

^
Umm... if you're pointing at things on the screen the size does matter

I'm actually really confused lol. How does it know how big your TV is etc?

You calibrate the system for your TV when you set it up, I'd wager.

I doubt the nunchaku (are we really going to use that word??) dongle has rumble support. It could draw power for it from the base controller, but why waste battery life?

 

[Chrono]

This was posted from firefly in the 3DRealms forums. And from someone that has tried the controller.




http://forums.3drealms.com/ubbthrea...Board=othergames&Number=949214&page=0&fpart=2

Sounds fantastic

That does sound fantastic! All I need now is to see games. 8 months until E3 2006. :'(

 

[nightez]

he's not a technical guy

Jim Merrick was Technical Director at NTD, where he worked on Gamecube and N64. He is a tech guy, well mostly on the software side at least.

 

[GaimeGuy]

You calibrate the system for your TV when you set it up, I'd wager.

I doubt the nunchaku (are we really going to use that word??) dongle has rumble support. It could draw power for it from the base controller, but why waste battery life?

It's confirmed to have rumble.

And the 360 wireless controller has rumble. So does the PS3 boomerang controller, if I recall.

 

[Shogmaster]

I'm actually really confused lol. How does it know how big your TV is etc? Also some concern over the rumble, and hope the analogue bit has rumble too and doesn't require more batteries!

Gyros and Accelerometers won't give a shit about your TV's size nor resolution. Let's not venture down this unrelated path of discussion.

 

[heidern]

Except I don't believe for a second it would work, and he's not a technical guy, and they have nothing to gain by helping the competition reverse-engineer. But I can't wait to see what happens!

Merrick joined Nintendo of America in 1995, and would hold the position of Nintendo's Software Engineering Manager for about 6 years. Merrick was essentially a technical director and heavily involved in the development of Nintendo's hardware and technologies including development kits for the Nintendo GameCube as well as other systems and peripherals. He was the go-to man for anything technical-related. His responsibilities included defining, creating and implementing systems to support Nintendo's software quality assurance.

You were saying.

I'm pretty sure this has nothing to do with Gyration. The gyration technology is both more limited and more expensive. Whatever Nintendo have, I imagine there's a transferance out of left field of some tech from somewhere. I also believe them when they say there's no calibration. This is Nintendo, they are a sucker for making things simple, espeically their efforts to attract non-gamers. I imagine it will go something along the lines of:
Take Revolution out of box.
Put Sensor on top of TV.
Plug in Revolution, put game in and switch it on.
Sit down and start playing.

 

[Lindsay]

How does it do multi-player? Do ya need sensors for each controller o.o?

 

[EternalDarko]

I think the sensor is only there to determine the distance from the screen of the controller....for things such as zooming etc. The controller is not a light gun....the sensor doesnt detect where the controller is aiming in relation to the TV. It's ability to control movement, rotation, tilt etc does not come from the signal it sends to the sensor but by the controller specific technology(whether it be gyros, accelerometers or whatever) to assess the movements the user creates by tilting, rotating and moving the controller in whatever direction within a 3d space; which is then transmitted to the console by the wireless technology in which they are connected.
I think the sensor needing to be on either side of the TV is only to get the users proximity in regards to the TV and sense their forward or backward movement.
That's how i figure it anyway, I could be wrong, but we'll have to see what Nintendo say about it.

 

[Krowley]

I'm actually really confused lol. How does it know how big your TV is etc? Also some concern over the rumble, and hope the analogue bit has rumble too and doesn't require more batteries!

tv size wouldn't matter because...

well let me explain, imagine playing duck hunt with a hand on the screen, as you move the controller, the hand aims, the size of the graphic and the speed would be scaled.. It works like a mouse, not like a light gun, so the size of your tv does not mater.

at least thats my understanding. it would give you some onscreen feedback to tell where your aiming so you can calibrate your movements. you would not literaly be using your screen size to determine how much to move.

 

[kojacker]

From what we know so far, I agree with EternalDarko ^^

Merrick - "We use Bluetooth technology to communicate between the controller and what we call a 'sensor bar', which has two little sensors on it that are maybe a foot apart. These sensors can be detached from the bar and they can be above the TV or below the TV - it doesn't really matter."

I've worked with Bluetooth tech a bit, but have never come across an accurate way of measuring 3d tracking using 2 sensors alone. It's only really useful for movement in a single plane. As EternalDarko says, forward and backward.

Especially asMerrick states it doesn't matter if they are placed above or below the TV - seems very odd. Must be something missing.

In any case, Nintendo have put a lot of faith in this controller and I bet it'll work great. Looking forward to Metroid Prime 3...

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Wtf Gahgiddy? Did you even bother to read the Rev controller sticky? It's a 3D mouse thing, it uses Bluetooth, it needs two sensors that are place near the TV (or something), it works with CRT, LCD, Plasma, Projector, Beamer, whatever. It can sense movement in X, Y, Z space, it can sense tilt, yaw, roll, whatever. It can sense everything. It's also very responsive from what we hear from hands-on by IGN and 1UP.

Yes. He's asking how it's doing all that, and how the sensors on near the display and on the remote work together.

what about distance. I remeber Iwata mentioning distance from TV. What happens your gaming room is 2 meters by 2 meters!?

You're living in a 2 dimensional area.

Oh yeah I heard the Rev controller is using GPS techology to figure out its positioning in space.

No way. Do that, and they'd lose the tinfoil hat market.

tv size wouldn't matter because...

well let me explain, imagine playing duck hunt with a hand on the screen, as you move the controller, the hand aims, the size of the graphic and the speed would be scaled.. It works like a mouse, not like a light gun, so the size of your tv does not mater.

at least thats my understanding. it would give you some onscreen feedback to tell where your aiming so you can calibrate your movements. you would not literaly be using your screen size to determine how much to move.

Journalists have talked about demos that worked like light gun games. To quote 1Up

DEMO: BLOCK BUSTER
A firing-range-like contest where two players compete to see who can shoot randomly appearing squares first. Aiming is done by pointing the controller itself at different points on screen, pulling the B trigger to fire.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

 

[Fuzzy]

How does it do multi-player? Do ya need sensors for each controller o.o?

We don't know yet but one of the sites (it was either IGN or 1UP) said that only 4 base controllers (remotes) could be used at one time. Their example was if one person was using 2 of the base controllers (like the guy playing drums in the video) then only two more people could play (each with one base controller) or one more person (using two base controllers).

 

[xexex]

very stupid question:

does the Rev controller detect diagnal movement (i.e, up-right, down-left)

 

[Fuzzy]

Journalists have talked about demos that worked like light gun games. To quote 1Up

DEMO: BLOCK BUSTER
A firing-range-like contest where two players compete to see who can shoot randomly appearing squares first. Aiming is done by pointing the controller itself at different points on screen, pulling the B trigger to fire.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143782

IGN tells a different story.

Demo #1: Point and Shoot
Like a laser pointer, the main controller was used to move a simple cursor on the TV screen and shoot square blocks for points. It was simple, merely colored lines in 2D, but effective. It was easy to get a feel for just how sensitive the device is -- it responded to all the movements quickly and smoothly. We did feel the need to use two hands, however, to steady it and improve accuracy, but that only lends to the idea of just how sensitive it is.

Source: http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

They're either two different demos or one of them doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

[Gahiggidy]

Sad to realize that this thing doesn't include a laser-pointer/light-gun after all.


If its only detecting distance from TV with the antenna, then is all that sword-slashing and bat swining movement in the "demo" video bullshit? Or are they extrapolating vertical position based on the gyros/accelerator sensors?


What we REALLY need to see is a demo that shows a "virtual-controller" being moved/positioned in realtime from the user. Remember Miyamoto's demo of the virtual-GCN controller at SW 2000?

 

[EternalDarko]

very stupid question:

does the Rev controller detect diagnal movement (i.e, up-right, down-left)

ofcourse, it's not limited like a d-pad. it has full 360 degrees of movement.

 

[Gahiggidy]

IGN tells a different story.
Source: http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

They're either two different demos or one of them doesn't know what they're talking about.

IGN does refer to it as a "laser-pointer", which is not the same idea of a mouse.

 

[Calidor]

I wonder how you can choose wich player you want to be (first player, second player) i dont see any switch or button except the blue led

 

[xexex]

Sad to realize that this thing doesn't include a laser-pointer/light-gun after all.


If its only detecting distance from TV with the antenna, then is all that sword-slashing and bat swining movement in the "demo" video bullshit? Or are they extrapolating vertical position based on the gyros/accelerator sensors?


What we REALLY need to see is a demo that shows a "virtual-controller" being moved/positioned in realtime from the user. Remember Miyamoto's demo of the virtual-GCN controller at SW 2000?

yeah I remember that very well. I agree we need to see something like that.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Yea I think nintendo left themselves open for some of the hits they are getting by not showing some actual games running on the rev. They are the first to talk about gameplay, thats it all about graphics...yet we have seen hardware, hardware and more hardware. Show me mario stomping on koopas or something.

 

[Shao]

IGN tells a different story.
Source: http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

They're either two different demos or one of them doesn't know what they're talking about.

IGN also mention how it will work on all TVs because it doesnt work like a lightgun, but light-gun type games will definately be possible with this set up.

Also read how the sensors can be placed anywhere near the TV, one on top, one on bottom, both on one side etc. Very interesting.

 

[EternalDarko]

I wonder how you can choose wich player you want to be (first player, second player) i dont see any switch or button except the blue led

i'm guessing through the home screen.

edit/ Metroid was behind closed doors.

 

[maharg]

They have shown the Metroid demo, which should be sufficient, but I'm not sure if video of that exists on the web. I haven't even looked at the full keynote video.

 

[Gahiggidy]

yeah I remember that very well. I agree we need to see something like that.

Petition time?

 

[Krowley]

Sad to realize that this thing doesn't include a laser-pointer/light-gun after all.


If its only detecting distance from TV with the antenna, then is all that sword-slashing and bat swining movement in the "demo" video bullshit? Or are they extrapolating vertical position based on the gyros/accelerator sensors?


What we REALLY need to see is a demo that shows a "virtual-controller" being moved/positioned in realtime from the user. Remember Miyamoto's demo of the virtual-GCN controller at SW 2000?

i agree that we need to see a demo, but as to the sword swinging stuff, one of the demoes they played was a fishing game, and it was able to detect your casting motion and the jerk upward when you got a bite... apparently every movement of your had was replicated on the screen, so that sounds like it would work in any other context.

 

[Gahiggidy]

A casting motion is a fairly basic motion. Simply register the sudden tilt of the controller. But can the console register an arcing motion of a bat swing?

 

[Doc Holliday]

hmm if it detecs x, y, z plus speed. Then an arc should register?

 

[Gahiggidy]

hmm if it detecs x, y, z plus speed. Then an arc should register?

Only the x-axis has been confirmed. Don't confuse the ability to register orientation of the remote as being spatial positioning.

 

[Shao]

Don't think Nintendo would bullshit about what the thing can do. Bat and sword swings could be done, but how they'd translate to game is another matter.

Can act as a mouse or lightgun, can rotate, tilt, pitch and yaw, swing, jab, stroke, fish, drill. It's almost ridiculous how they've pulled this off.

 

[crisdecuba]

From IGN:
"They can detect up, down, left and right motion, and also translate forward and backward depth. The controller's sensors also recognize twisting, rotating and tilting movements. In short, any motion made by arms and wrists can be translated to Revolution games."

If it can detect up, down, left, right, and forwards and backwards, then that pretty much covers anything the controller is doing, including a baseball swing.

~Cris

 

[KINGMOKU]

From what I understand(Someone PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong) is that;

Using the Revolution controller, is like having a virtual arm, right?

Imagine if all you see on the screen is an arm holding a sword. That would be YOUR ARM, and could do anything with it, as if it was really your arm holding the sword correct?

If that is indeed the case, this thing is going to kick-ass and take names.

Un-fucking real almost.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

Don't think Nintendo would bullshit about what the thing can do. Bat and sword swings could be done, but how they'd translate to game is another matter.

Can act as a mouse or lightgun, can rotate, tilt, pitch and yaw, swing, jab, stroke, fish, drill. It's almost ridiculous how they've pulled this off.

:lol

Indeed. Lets just hope that when Perrin Kaplan said they were going to "aggressively" protect it that she wasn't BSing.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

have you guys watched Iwatas speech? the promo movie shows

1. sword fighting (and dodging)
2. fishing, casting and reeling in.
3. FPS use, nun chuck style, remote to aim and shoot.
4. drumming with 2 remotes at once.
5. playing tennis, swinging the remote to hit the ball.
6. nunchuck style to point a flashlight and move around.

so many things everyone is mentioning is already covered in the keynote speech.

 

[AndoCalrissian]

From what I understand(Someone PLEASE correct me if i'm wrong) is that;

Using the Revolution controller, is like having a virtual arm, right?

Imagine if all you see on the screen is an arm holding a sword. That would be YOUR ARM, and could do anything with it, as if it was really your arm holding the sword correct?

If that is indeed the case, this thing is going to kick-ass and take names.

Un-fucking real almost.

Squeenix. Bushido Blade. Now.

 

[Gahiggidy]

From IGN:
"They can detect up, down, left and right motion, and also translate forward and backward depth. The controller's sensors also recognize twisting, rotating and tilting movements. In short, any motion made by arms and wrists can be translated to Revolution games."

If it can detect up, down, left, right, and forwards and backwards, then that pretty much covers anything the controller is doing, including a baseball swing.

~Cris

How does that cover the baseball swing? An arcing motion of a swing would have to know the angle of the controller in addition to the height and distance to the tv screen. Sword swings could more or less be done by "cheating" using the basic 2D mouse-like control to register diagnol, up-down, side-to-side swipes. A convincing simulation baseball swing would have to register if the swing was too high or too low. I've yet to read anything that says the Revolution can detect the height of the controller off the ground.

 

[Gahiggidy]

have you guys watched Iwatas speech? the promo movie shows

1. sword fighting (and dodging)
2. fishing, casting and reeling in.
3. FPS use, nun chuck style, remote to aim and shoot.
4. drumming with 2 remotes at once.
5. playing tennis, swinging the remote to hit the ball.
6. nunchuck style to point a flashlight and move around.

so many things everyone is mentioning is already covered in the keynote speech.

Iwata can and does lie... from time to time.

Trust but verify.

 

[jgkspsx]

The promo video is the target for how it will be used. Those people are actors staring at a camera, not people playing games. Don't treat it as any kind of reliable info.

The base controller (remote) has rumble. Is there any reason to believe the analog stick add-in (nunchaku) has rumble too?

You were saying.

[quote = bio]Merrick joined Nintendo of America in 1995, and would hold the position of Nintendo's Software Engineering Manager for about 6 years. Merrick was essentially a technical director and heavily involved in the development of Nintendo's hardware and technologies including development kits for the Nintendo GameCube as well as other systems and peripherals. He was the go-to man for anything technical-related. His responsibilities included defining, creating and implementing systems to support Nintendo's software quality assurance.[/quote]
It's hard to tell if he ever actually worked on hardware. It looks like he did a lot of work on APIs and the like, but it's hard to tell from a piece like that. Interesting, though

Imagine this, if you will:

y
^
| _
| [_]
.------> x
.
z

Where
_
[_]

is the front end of the remote. We have confirmation that the following motions are supported:
- rotation about the x axis (pitch)
- rotation about the y axis (yaw)
- movement along the z axis

Are movement in rectangular coordinates along the x and y axis or rotation about the z axis (roll) actually confirmed to be supported? Or are we just extrapolating that from the acted video?

If these three actions are all that we know for certain to be supported, then the "sensor bar" detects z motion (via bluetooth even) and the other two gestures are detected with solidstate gyros.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

How does that cover the baseball swing? An arcing motion of a swing would have to know the angle of the controller in addition to the height and distance to the tv screen. Sword swings could more or less be done by "cheating" using the basic 2D mouse-like control to register diagnol, up-down, side-to-side swipes. A convincing simulation baseball swing would have to register if the swing was too high or too low. I've yet to read anything that says the Revolution can detect the height of the controller off the ground.

you sound a bit nuts. It can, the sensors detect its movement in 3d space. 3D SPACE its not 2D. ITS 3D. Height, width, depth. 3D. watch the keynote. just watch the keynote. not only can you do baseball swings, you can swing a sword, then when the guy swings at you, you can pull the remote back to dodge the swing. just watch the keynote. Iwata explains it far better than this thread has, or will.

The promo video is the target for how it will be used. Those people are actors staring at a camera, not people playing games. Don't treat it as any kind of reliable info.

WHAT WHAT. it was official nintendo media to promote their new system. do you think it would be a fabrication?

 

[Vieo]

House of the Dead... 3? Are they up to 3? House of the Dead 3 please. =)

If devs get on board, this thing is going to be awesome!

 

[Gahiggidy]

....

y
^
| _
| [_]
.------> x
.
z

Where
_
[_]

is the front end of the remote. We have confirmation that the following motions are supported:
- rotation about the x axis (pitch)
- rotation about the y axis (yaw)
- movement along the z axis

Are movement in rectangular coordinates along the x and y axis or rotation about the z axis (roll) actually confirmed to be supported? Or are we just extrapolating that from the acted video?

...

AFAIK, only the "acceleration" of up+down is detected... not how far its moved or its x,y coordinates. I figure you'd need to have additional "sensor bars" on the floor below, cieling above, and in the back of the room to get actual 3D coordinates of the remote.

Another question is... do the seperate controllers have any idea how apart they are from each other?

 

[BlackNMild2k1]

@Gahiggidy

if the controller can sense left to right motion (just as up and down motion) at the same time as it can sense forward and back motion

*go ahead an try it out with your own hands so you can see what I'm tryiong to say*

would that not create a swinging motion sort of like a punch?

do it from up to down while pushing forward and you get a casting motion.

now if you do it from up to down, while pulling right to left(or reverse for lefties)and the same time as pushing forward, you get you bat swing.

I hope that helps you understand the control as I understand it.

 

[Gahiggidy]

@Gahiggidy

if the controller can sense left to right motion (just as up and down motion) at the same time as it can sense forward and back motion

*go ahead an try it out with your own hands so you can see what I'm tryiong to say*

would that not create a swinging motion sort of like a punch?

do it from up to down while pushing forward and you get a casting motion.

now if you do it from up to down, while pulling right to left(or reverse for lefties)and the same time as pushing forward, you get you bat swing.

I hope that helps you understand the control as I understand it.

Yes, but all with the remote at an arcing angle? That's a hell of alot of info to "crunch" in real-time. And how about the little "window" at the front of the remote? Does the window need to face the sensor-bar detect the "z-axis" motion? The only demo that the editors played that had z-axis detection was the where's Pikachu game. Could they play that game holding the remote backwards?

 

[evilromero]

I'm thinking most consumers will be a little miffed about calibrating the sensor for their tv. It's just a hassle. For one, over the years I've taken my cube around with me to many places. When I visit the folks, on trips to Japan and LA and between places. I can't do that with the Rev unless I want to set it up each time, placing the sensor on the tv.

Also, how will this work with projectors, if at all? I mean, my group was bent on having a project for the Rev launch. But it doesn't seem likely at this point.

And one other thing- is the cross pad analog? Because this would significantly help for games, such as racing, that just need two or three buttons and a steering interface. Not everyone will want to "steer" with the controller.

House of the Dead... 3? Are they up to 3? House of the Dead 3 please. =)

If devs get on board, this thing is going to be awesome!

More like HotD 4, which is already coming to arcades. In that case it's only a matter of Sega tweaking it for the Rev.

 

[Vieo]

I'm thinking most consumers will be a little miffed about calibrating the sensor for their tv. It's just a hassle. For one, over the years I've taken my cube around with me to many places. When I visit the folks, on trips to Japan and LA and between places. I can't do that with the Rev unless I want to set it up each time, placing the sensor on the tv.

Also, how will this work with projectors, if at all? I mean, my group was bent on having a project for the Rev launch. But it doesn't seem likely at this point.

And one other thing- is the cross pad analog? Because this would significantly help for games, such as racing, that just need two or three buttons and a steering interface. Not everyone will want to "steer" with the controller.


More like HotD 4, which is already coming to arcades. In that case it's only a matter of Sega tweaking it for the Rev.

As far at setup goes, in the interview Merrick said it doesn't require any type of calibration for your display other than just putting the sensor bar near it. He also said it works with any display type.