Support NeoGAF

[Hylian7]

Hate me all you want people, but at least I am being truthful. I am not gonna lie because in the bible it says not to. But all religion is bad so I guess me telling the truth is bad.

I will eventually read the bible. I have more important things that matter right now. Im sorry I was enjoying my life as a kid and not being force fed religion.

I don't hate anyone in this thread. I may disagree with them, and they may be wrong, but I don't hate them.

Just of curiousity, how old are you? That bit about "enjoying my life as a kid" made me wonder that.

It seems to me like you aren't thinking for yourself and just saying "Well everyone seems to agree there is a God, so I'll just go with them." This kind of thing is where you are supposed to think for yourself, preferably, thinking logically, unlike most religious people. In fact, I would suggest reading the Bible. There's a common saying "The fastest way to become an Atheist is to read the Bible." I used to be Catholic, and never read the whole thing myself, just whatever readings they were doing that week in church. I just thought about the concept of God in general and realized how absurd and unrealistic it is, and that it's silly to worship something that pretty much has no way of existing. Even if God did somehow exist, according to the Bible (the whole thing, not just the Old Testament), he's kind of a dick, and I don't want to spend my time worshipping someone like that.

 

[Veezy]

But when did I ever once say I do not agree with science? FFS I believe in evolution. I have never said science is wrong at all. I raised the big bang question because I was actually interested at what the answers would be.

Now for anybody interested at all just so you can know where I get my influence and if you are just the least bit curious read the lyrics of Underoath, The Devil Wears Prada, August Burns Red, As I Lay Dying, Norma Jean. Heck I will post some lyrics so you don't even need to look at them if anybody wants them. I do not listen to creed, jars of clay or any of those bands.

I'm not saying you personally. I don't know you.

What I'm saying is, why do you believe that calling somebody to task about their beliefs is disrespectful? Why is it disrespectful for me to compare your religious belief, considering you don't fully understand it, to the FSM?

If your beliefs aren't serious enough for you to study and understand them, why are they serious enough for you to get defensive about them?

EDIT: Holy shit, Member status. Praise the Lord.

 

[Hylian7]

But when did I ever once say I do not agree with science? FFS I believe in evolution. I have never said science is wrong at all. I raised the big bang question because I was actually interested at what the answers would be.

Now for anybody interested at all just so you can know where I get my influence and if you are just the least bit curious read the lyrics of Underoath, The Devil Wears Prada, August Burns Red, As I Lay Dying, Norma Jean. Heck I will post some lyrics so you don't even need to look at them if anybody wants them. I do not listen to creed, jars of clay or any of those bands.

......This is seriously the first time I have ever heard of anyone being religious for a reason like this. Does that mean you could listen to "Another Brick in the Wall" by Pink Floyd and think that we don't need a public school system?

 

[rdrr gnr]

......This is seriously the first time I have ever heard of anyone being religious for a reason like this. Does that mean you could listen to "Another Brick in the Wall" by Pink Floyd and think that we don't need a public school system?

LOL. Holy shit, this thread has been delivering all night.

Edit: I just found it funny, the example. I started thinking of what the most fucked up songs would do to my various philosophies.

 

[Hylian7]

LOL. Holy shit, this thread has been delivering all night.

I haven't followed every page of the thread, are you laughing at my argument or just my example (which was intended to be funny)?

 

[Veezy]

I haven't followed every page of the thread, are you laughing at my argument or just my example (which was intended to be funny)?

Probably your example.

I'd, personally, rather be more religiously influenced by Lil Wayne and T-Pain.

I NEED A WINN-DIXIE BAG FULL OF MONEY RIGHT NOW TO THE V.I.P. SECTION.

Amen, brotha. A-fuckin-men.

 

[CornBurrito]

I don't really think that's all that surprising. A lot of that music aims to create a rapturous feeling.

I'm not surprised the music encapsulated him. Some people get that feeling from listening to music, others from experiencing life, and others from reading the texts.

EDIT: I think if you step in a church with an amazing choir, you'd experience a similar feeling. Actually I recall a time at a choir where I heard an atheist say "Almost makes me want to believe in God again", or something like that.

I've gotten such feelings from music before actually. I just never let the lyrics shape my entire worldview.

I'm actually a fan of gospel music to be quite honest. Especially when it has that chorus full of powerful black female voices.

 

[nib95]

The religious dude in this video is hilarious. He's like a religious version of what religious people think Dawkins is, if that makes sense.

That's because he is (imo). The religious dude is also showing great signs of arrogance, condescending tone and rudeness. Though in Dawkins defence, in most video's I've seen he's not as bad as how he sounds in some of the stuff he types.

 

[njean777]

......This is seriously the first time I have ever heard of anyone being religious for a reason like this. Does that mean you could listen to "Another Brick in the Wall" by Pink Floyd and think that we don't need a public school system?

Well public schools are shit, so tbh thats a horrible example. Private schools are 10x better then a public school will ever be. Music is a strong motivator for me. I can not describe it, but for me I take music very seriously that is just the way I am. If people find it funny, then they find it funny, but that is how I am.

If it wasn't for music, I wouldn't have lost 135lbs it motivated me, it helped me. Along with my personal drive to do. I take from music what people take from sermons or whatever you find to make you think or question certain things.

 

[jaxword]

I still can't get over this shit. You're making the claim that an OMNIPOTENT DIVINE BEING is real...ON MUSIC! Jesus CHRIST!

Actually, I have a lot of respect for music and its ability to touch our minds, and I can fully understand people having (what we call) a spiritual experience from it. Music is a form of genius that we don't fully grasp that we're doing.

But it's still a bit silly to base your morality on it.

 

[Dead Man]

......This is seriously the first time I have ever heard of anyone being religious for a reason like this. Does that mean you could listen to "Another Brick in the Wall" by Pink Floyd and think that we don't need a public school system?

LOL, quite possibly! Sorry njean777, but your arguments have devolved into absurdity.

Edit: Hah! I was too slow.

 

[CornBurrito]

Well public schools are shit, so tbh thats a horrible example. Private schools are 10x better then a public school will ever be. Music is a strong motivator for me. I can not describe it, but for me I take music very seriously that is just the way I am. If people find it funny, then they find it funny, but that is how I am.

Would you rather a large segment of the population have shitty schooling, or absolutely no schooling?

 

[Gr1mLock]

This was a masterful troll. Truly.

 

[Veezy]

Would you rather a large segment of the population have shitty schooling, or absolutely no schooling?

Jay-Z has a song called Hard Knock Life about living on the streets. And he's rich.

Think about it.

 

[njean777]

Would you rather a large segment of the population have shitty schooling, or absolutely no schooling?

I would rather the US fucking spend money on their schools and not let them become the tripe they have become. We have wasted so much money on wars for oil, communism, etc. We could have been putting that money into our schools, but no we need that oil, and had to stop the commies. We also bailed out companies that failed horribly, why not put that money into schools also?

 

[Agnostic]

......This is seriously the first time I have ever heard of anyone being religious for a reason like this. Does that mean you could listen to "Another Brick in the Wall" by Pink Floyd and think that we don't need a public school system?

We don't need abusive boarding schools.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm not sure if I should be proud or ashamed that this thread is still going.


I'll go with proud . . . some good discussion.

 

[Kinitari]

That "Big Questions" video fascinated me because of the sheer lack of Evangelicals.

 

[speculawyer]

To quote Carl himself . . . he never said "billions and billions" . . . that would be an imprecise and illogical number.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

This is the same with most Christians.


The majority of people who are part of a religion, any religion, have never actually read the book their religion is based upon, and just went with the parts someone told them about.

Thats true about almost anything.

 

[Gr1mLock]

I'm not sure if I should be proud or ashamed that this thread is still going.


I'll go with proud . . . some good discussion.

Seriously..i cant tell if we're being trolled anymore or what. I'm just waiting to see the flat earth gaffers come out of the woodwork. We may have pictures of a 'round' earth but you know anything can be done with photoshop these days. Besides i just kinda 'feel' the earth is flat.

 

[XMonkey]

Thats true about almost anything.

Well, shouldn't be too hard to come up with some good counter-examples then.

Well public schools are shit, so tbh thats a horrible example. Private schools are 10x better then a public school will ever be.

What is this I don't even

 

[speculawyer]

I've discussed at extensive length why religion is not mostly harmless. Why indoctrination is extremely dangerous to socialized mankind.

Yep. We humans are greatly affected by our early learning. I wish people would not push religion onto children until after 16 or so. Of course, that would probably kill religion, so no religious people would ever agree to that.

If a religion cannot withstand reasoned intellectual criticism then why should it prosper? But reasoning in anathema to religion in general so . . . :-/

 

[Kimosabae]

I think it'd actually be really fun to treat science as a religion. I mean, what other religion can produce the same level of miracles?

Healing the sick? Check. Flying through the air? Check. Man lands on fucking moon? Check.

I'm sorry but this post is brilliant.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm sorry but this post is brilliant.

Indeed, it is. I fully agree.

Of course, only in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. The real beauty in science is its self-correcting nature.

 

[Dead Man]

To quote Carl himself . . . he never said "billions and billions" . . . that would be an imprecise and illogical number.

Which funnily enough he states in a collection of essays entitled... Billions and Billions.

 

[speculawyer]

Which funnily enough he states in a collection of essays entitled... Billions and Billions.

Yeah . . . that was titled and published after he was dead.

 

[Rocket Punch]

The main problem with religion in this day and age (and there are many) is that religion has been used throughout history not as a unifying but as as a dividing force.

It was initially used as a means of unifying one nation against others. It pit nations against nation. It gave empires and civilizations an excuse to wage war and conquer and enslave other civilizations since they were not this or that god's chosen people, thus inferior and insignificant.

In this day and age where the world has become increasingly small thanks to technology, advances in communications, internet and news the state of human interactions on a global scale is being held back by backwards belief systems that hinder relationships between nations largely due to differences in belief systems.

Religion has lost all purpose or value it once offered humans as means of identity and nourishment and instead has become a burden, a divisive force, antagonistic to critical thinking and science and ultimately a negative force that threatens the existence of humanity today and tomorrow.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Indeed, it is. I fully agree.

Of course, only in a tongue-in-cheek fashion. The real beauty in science is its self-correcting nature.

And that it has proof.

 

[Dead Man]

Yeah . . . that was titled and published after he was dead.

Yeah. RIP Sagan.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Well, shouldn't be too hard to come up with some good counter-examples then.

Nope its pretty easy politics (history,ideology,current events) history (in general) ,science, gaming reviews (reviews for any media), biology,tabloids essentially any topic one could think of is going to fit this criteria. I think its a safe bet that a vast majority of all knowledge a person has is not based on reading and understanding a primary source. I bet a majority of people are not even aware of what a primary source is.

Religion has lost all purpose or value it once offered humans as means of identity and nourishment and instead has become a burden, a divisive force, antagonistic to critical thinking and science and ultimately a negative force that threatens the existence of humanity today and tomorrow.

This is just nonsense. For one a vast majority of the human population still seeks identity and community in religion. So we can already disregard your statement since reality contradicts it. But more to the point remove religion and people would still identify with and believe in all manner of stupid fucking things. Religion on the decline, pseudoscience and belief in the occult kerploding. We can safely ignore the first part of your statement because it is mind numbingly silly. The original root of religion is to unite one nation against another?

The issues with religion concern the vast power it gives those who hold the reigns. Power tends to be abused, this is not a fault with religion in and of itself.

I've discussed at extensive length why religion is not mostly harmless. Why indoctrination is extremely dangerous to socialized mankind.

If by discuss you mean make a series of claims with every increasing word count with ever decreasing clarity, yes you have. Religion is an abstract, there is nothing inherently bad or good about it. Tho specific religions (especially in the instance of western europe) have provided profound cultural benefits.

Ignoring that socialization is essentially indoctrination in the first place and certainly extends beyond and is not dependent or even implied in religion itself.

And that it has proof.

Sadly, if science has proof or not is entirely irrelevant to the relationship between those who accept it. A fraction of the population has the knowledge and cognitive tools to critical evaluate the claims of science. Which is why so many people eat up pseudo-scientific nonsense. Its also why a majority of the "science" you see in the media amounts to correlative nonsense if not outright falsehoods.

 

[V_Arnold]

Just when it could not get any weirder, it is now atheists piling up on people who have beliefs that came to them instead of "I choose it after careful evaluation of all presented material being available to me at the certain time and space".

Jesus Christ.
I do not - EVER - want to see a religion built by atheists.
But as we are in Kali Yuga, this might be unavoidable.

 

[nib95]

Just when it could not get any weirder, it is now atheists piling up on people who have beliefs that came to them instead of "I choose it after careful evaluation of all presented material being available to me at the certain time and space".

Jesus Christ.
I do not - EVER - want to see a religion built by atheists.
But as we are in Kali Yuga, this might be unavoidable.

Based on my history of posting on numerous forums, I do find Atheists to be, by in large, the most antagonistic, pretentious and condescending of groups. That's not to say these traits don't appear in other groups, fan bases and so on, or that there isn't much of the opposite, but imo they are most prominent with atheists. You simply need only look through any related thread to see examples of it.

It's generally Atheists doing the attacking, mocking, defaming etc, and religious people doing the defending and justifying. I'm sure some will pounce on me for saying this, but just expressing my opinions. I doubt an Atheist could relate, since they're not often on the receiving end (at least on GAF), though ironically, many complain about having religion "shoved" down their throats earlier in life. Funny that later in life many of those same people would attempt to shove "atheist views" down the throats of religious people. Clear examples are littered throughout this very thread.

 

[V_Arnold]

Based on my history of posting on numerous forums, I do find Atheists to be, by in large, the most antagonistic, pretentious and condescending of groups. That's not to say these traits don't appear in other groups, fan bases and so on, or that there isn't much of the opposite, but imo they are most prominent with atheists. You simply need only look through any related thread to see examples of it.

It's generally Atheists doing the attacking, mocking, defaming etc, and religious people doing the defending and justifying. I'm sure some will pounce on me for saying this, but just expressing my opinions. I doubt an Atheist could relate, since they're not often on the receiving end, though ironically, many complain about having religion "shoved" down their throats earlier in life. Funny that later in life many of those same people would attempt to shove "atheist views" down the throats of religious people. Clear examples are littered throughout this very thread.

I am actually sad that I am still so weak that I continue to open up this thread every once in a while. I have already found the perfect place online where there are people who share a similar view as I do, and there is no argument to be had regarding these things. I still love GAF, and I would not be able to spend so many minutes daily unproductively without it, but I should learn to stay away from any religous threads, as there is only fighting inside here.

But you are right though, as they took up "proof" instead of "feelings", it HAD to be a downward spiral.

 

[Wrestlemania]

I do not - EVER - want to see a religion built by atheists.

Haha. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

 

[slidewinder]

Based on my history of posting on numerous forums, I do find Atheists to be, by in large, the most antagonistic, pretentious and condescending of groups

I would've said Nintendo fans.

 

[Agnostic]

I've gone through so much popcorn reading this thread. Time to grab more.

 

[Qwomo]

Just when it could not get any weirder, it is now atheists piling up on people who have beliefs that came to them instead of "I choose it after careful evaluation of all presented material being available to me at the certain time and space".

Jesus Christ.
I do not - EVER - want to see a religion built by atheists.
But as we are in Kali Yuga, this might be unavoidable.

Just what this thread needs: eschatology!

 

[mavs]

Based on my history of posting on numerous forums, I do find Atheists to be, by in large, the most antagonistic, pretentious and condescending of groups. That's not to say these traits don't appear in other groups, fan bases and so on, or that there isn't much of the opposite, but imo they are most prominent with atheists. You simply need only look through any related thread to see examples of it.

It's generally Atheists doing the attacking, mocking, defaming etc, and religious people doing the defending and justifying. I'm sure some will pounce on me for saying this, but just expressing my opinions. I doubt an Atheist could relate, since they're not often on the receiving end (at least on GAF), though ironically, many complain about having religion "shoved" down their throats earlier in life. Funny that later in life many of those same people would attempt to shove "atheist views" down the throats of religious people. Clear examples are littered throughout this very thread.

Man, I don't think I can take this at face value and still accept that you have ever been outside of your home.

 

[V_Arnold]

Man, I don't think I can take this at face value and still accept that you have ever been outside of your home.

I do not think you have any idea what you are talking about, though. Randomly assuming things dont help you at all.

 

[MrHicks]

Just when it could not get any weirder, it is now atheists piling up on people who have beliefs that came to them instead of "I choose it after careful evaluation of all presented material being available to me at the certain time and space".

Jesus Christ.
I do not - EVER - want to see a religion built by atheists.
But as we are in Kali Yuga, this might be unavoidable.

does not compute

 

[mavs]

I do not think you have any idea what you are talking about, though. Randomly assuming things dont help you at all.

You must mean that I don't know what he's talking about. Since not knowing what I'm talking about...that would mean not being alive and conscious in the country I live in.

 

[CiSTM]

Friend of mine just sended me this via IRC.
The Christian National Registry of Atheists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTHyVWCoJdg&feature=player_embedded#!

 

[archnemesis]

The atheist symbol in the end of the video is pretty nifty, although it reminds me a bit too much of Star Trek. Is it a well established symbol?

 

[jaxword]

The atheist symbol in the end of the video is pretty nifty, although it reminds me a bit too much of Star Trek. Is it a well established symbol?

There will never be an atheist symbol. Nor should there be, really.

If you wish atheism to propagate, you have to keep it on an individual level.

 

[archnemesis]

Well I guess it'd be more suitable as a symbol for New Atheism and other antireligion movements. I've gotten the impression that they have become more organized lately and was curious if they had claimed a collective symbol to help identify each other.

 

[Zaphod]

Based on my history of posting on numerous forums, I do find Atheists to be, by in large, the most antagonistic, pretentious and condescending of groups. That's not to say these traits don't appear in other groups, fan bases and so on, or that there isn't much of the opposite, but imo they are most prominent with atheists. You simply need only look through any related thread to see examples of it.

It's generally Atheists doing the attacking, mocking, defaming etc, and religious people doing the defending and justifying. I'm sure some will pounce on me for saying this, but just expressing my opinions. I doubt an Atheist could relate, since they're not often on the receiving end (at least on GAF), though ironically, many complain about having religion "shoved" down their throats earlier in life. Funny that later in life many of those same people would attempt to shove "atheist views" down the throats of religious people. Clear examples are littered throughout this very thread.

Basing your view of the world and people on anonymous internet postings is probably not the best idea.

 

[Gorgon]

Well the ten commandments are a good start, the loving one another is another, helping fellow man, sacrificing your life to save others, give charity, be humble, respectful. I mean lets look at the time this was written, today people obviously mostly act this way, but if it wasn't for the bible I don't know if we would have the same order we have today. It was a powerful book back then, people listened to it, followed it, feared it. So to be told not to kill, cheat, steal for most, from a higher power, may have scared them to not do these things. Which they may have passed on for generation after generation.

What order? Is the US more "ordered" than, say, China, where Christianity is non-existent? Also, do you have any evidence that stealing, murder, rape, war, etc decreased after the 3rd or 4th century onwards compared to the Ancient World?

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

The atheist symbol in the end of the video is pretty nifty, although it reminds me a bit too much of Star Trek. Is it a well established symbol?

Atheists have a symbol now? lol. Wow.
What does that say?

 

[HeadlessRoland]

What order? Is the US more "ordered" than, say, China, where Christianity is non-existent? Also, do you have any evidence that stealing, murder, rape, war, etc decreased after the 3rd or 4th century onwards compared to the Ancient World?

Ancient world had organized religion...