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[FatKingBallman]

Dev: Next-Gen Features Have to Be Fitted to XSS Memory; It Would Have Been Much Easier with XSX Only

Exor Studios' Paweł Lekki said that the Xbox Series S memory is the determining point for the gameplay features of next-gen consoles.

wccftech.com

Yes, the Xbox Series S requires additional optimization. While we were able to simply compile The Riftbreaker for the Xbox Series X and it "just works", the XSS requires additional optimization. Still, it doesn't look like it will require that much work to be running well at 1080p on the XSS. The best thing about the current architecture is that the CPU power on both Xbox models is practically the same. Scaling graphical effects is a lot easier than scaling gameplay. The amount of available memory is a determining factor in a lot of cases when we talk about the size of a game world or about how many things can be happening within it at any given time. The size of the memory that is available in the XSS is the actual determining point for the entire console generation as gameplay features have to be fitted to the lowest spec. From the point of view of a developer it would be much easier if there was a single XSX SKU, but given the circumstances I think that Microsoft has made good choices in how to create a much cheaper console, that can still run next-generation games.

EDIT

Some gameplay video

 

[M1chl]

Wonder what they do if they found out about PC

 

[Tickle My Tendies]

I only trust takes from Hellpoint Dev. Wake me up when they weigh in,

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

this game looks like it could run on my tablet

edit: the quote from the title seems to be made up. cant find it anywhere in the article.

 

[recursive]

Wonderf what what they do if they found out about PC

Probably define minimum memory spec?

 

[M1chl]

Probably define minimum memory spec?

Which is still lower than XSS, so... I don't know. The differnce between good devs and bad ones, is that good ones optimalise their codebase.

 

[FatKingBallman]

edit: the quote from the title seems to be made up. cant find it anywhere in the article

Really? Read again

 

[Thomish]

I seriously hope XSS doesn't hold next-gen back.

 

[Negotiator101]

Nothing to see here, this applys to PC as well if that's the case, dev probably worded it wrong is my guess.

 

[StateofMajora]

I seriously hope XSS doesn't hold next-gen back.

It will to some degree. I would hope that a developer would make a game for ps5 and SX first, then just chop away at Series S version.

 

[KuraiShidosha]

I have no stakes in the current consoles but man fuck the S. It's so obvious that it's going to completely hamstring the new generation and even blur the lines to last gen even more than the the mid gen refreshes did. It's literally less powerful than a One X.

 

[StateofMajora]

I have no stakes in the current consoles but man fuck the S. It's so obvious that it's going to completely hamstring the new generation and even blur the lines to last gen even more than the the mid gen refreshes did. It's literally less powerful than a One X.

Series S should've at least had 12gb ram and 6tf rdna2 but I think developers would rather work on it due to the horrible cpu on one X.

But yeah it's a step down in graphics overall. FPS is in favor of series S though.

 

[jroc74]

Which is still lower than XSS, so... I don't know. The differnce between good devs and bad ones, is that good ones optimalise their codebase.

Ok, so that means for consoles the XSS could be the minimum specs.

That's the issue many have.

Many of us said this could be an issue. Many argued against it, also citing "but PC". That was also around the time when "scaling is easy" was the counter point, also citing "but PC".

Minimum requirements are a thing with PC, I don't see how it's different with consoles. Or does the time when the cross gen period ends no longer count....

 

[The Hamburglar]

So the weak ass console they decided to release will hold next gen back, as we all expected.

 

[Rex_DX]

Ok, so that means for consoles the XSS could be the minimum specs.

That's the issue many have.

Many of us said this could be an issue. Many argued against it, also citing "but PC". That was also around the time when "scaling is easy" was the counter point, also citing "but PC".

Minimum requirements are a thing with PC, I don't see how it's different with consoles. Or does the time when the cross gen period ends no longer count....

This certainly is a lot of words.

 

[ACESHIGH]

Devs are getting lazier year after year.

 

[Jokerevo]

But but but scaling guys. We can scale it just like PC, just like we have to scale down our expectations from 1440p to 1080p. We did that easily. So lowering the bar? We're soooo used to that.

 

[GHG]

This dev sounds like a FUD merchant.

What's his NeoGAF username?

 

[Jokerevo]

Devs are getting lazier year after year.

Hahahahha it ain't laziness, it's about dev time. How much time are you going to spend optimising something when 1440p is no longer expected?

Time is money. MS just keep tripping themselves up every gen.

 

[onnextflix5]

Like others have said, its not just low amount ram that's a problem also the slow speed of the ram, its a shame, but ms felt they needed xss to survive. U can't be to mad at them. The xss will really struggle in a few years time.

 

[93xfan]

It will to some degree. I would hope that a developer would make a game for ps5 and SX first, then just chop away at Series S version.

If they do that, then no problem. I don't care of the Series S version looks like the Witcher on Switch if it needs to

 

[Chukhopops]

I'm pretty sure the XSS can run the Starcraft 2 custom map that this guy is trying to sell us.

Also the guy literally says it will run fine on XSS with RT in, I quote, "reduced capacity" - sounds like there's no problem after all?

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Wonder what they do if they found out about PC

Set minimum spec requirements.... like every other PC dev does.

 

[skit_data]

Stuff similar to this have been tweeted by id software devs, and that is quite concerning as they are in no way "lazy indie devs".

Anyway, we will probably never know how much it will impact game development, because we will never know "what could have been". Maybe unnecessary long dev times, but other than that most stuff that "couldve been" will be cut down in designing the game before the game even enters building phase.

 

[M1chl]

Set minimum spec requirements.... like every other PC dev does.

So yeah, XSS definitely does hold indusrty back, if what you are saying is true. (and it is true)

 

[Bonfires Down]

I'm not worried. A lot of space can be saved by doing lower res textures. And no offense to the guy as the game looks fun, but it's not pushing the Series X to the limit.

 

[driqe]

Yes, the Xbox Series S requires additional optimization. While we were able to simply compile The Riftbreaker for the Xbox Series X and it "just works", the XSS requires additional optimization. Still, it doesn't look like it will require that much work to be running well at 1080p on the XSS. The best thing about the current architecture is that the CPU power on both Xbox models is practically the same. Scaling graphical effects is a lot easier than scaling gameplay. The amount of available memory is a determining factor in a lot of cases when we talk about the size of a game world or about how many things can be happening within it at any given time. The size of the memory that is available in the XSS is the actual determining point for the entire console generation as gameplay features have to be fitted to the lowest spec. From the point of view of a developer it would be much easier if there was a single XSX SKU, but given the circumstances I think that Microsoft has made good choices in how to create a much cheaper console, that can still run next-generation games

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

The XSS is just the XSX but in 1440p!

 

[Connificent]

 

[Knitted Knight]

"While we were able to simply compile The Riftbreaker for the Xbox Series X and it "just works", the XSS requires additional optimization."

I'm old enough to remember when folks were arguing otherwise on this very forum.

 

[The_Mike]

I seriously hope XSS doesn't hold next-gen back.

As a PC Gamer reading this:

 

[John Wick]

The XSS is just the XSX but in 1440p!

Is it? So why are loads of games 1080p?

 

[drotahorror]

this game looks like it could run on my tablet

edit: the quote from the title seems to be made up. cant find it anywhere in the article.

There's tons of destruction, physics, particle effects, enemies on screen, etc. Your tablet ain't runnin none of that game.

 

[kyliethicc]

Devs are getting lazier year after year.

This dev sounds like a FUD merchant.

What's his NeoGAF username?

I'm pretty sure the XSS can run the Starcraft 2 custom map that this guy is trying to sell us.

Also the guy literally says it will run fine on XSS with RT in, I quote, "reduced capacity" - sounds like there's no problem after all?

Stuff similar to this have been tweeted by id software devs, and that is quite concerning as they are in no way "lazy indie devs".

Anyway, we will probably never know how much it will impact game development, because we will never know "what could have been". Maybe unnecessary long dev times, but other than that most stuff that "couldve been" will be cut down in designing the game before the game even enters building phase.

I'm not worried. A lot of space can be saved by doing lower res textures. And no offense to the guy as the game looks fun, but it's not pushing the Series X to the limit.

Two award winning AAA game engine programmers from now Xbox 1st party studio Id Software agree.
The XSS RAM is a clear issue and bottleneck. And these guys code AAA multiplats for a living. They know their shit.

They both of course sad this before Xbox bought Bethesda lol and deleted the tweets later.


Axel Gneiting - Engine Programmer at Id Software (Doom, Doom Eternal)

Billy Khan - Lead Engine Programmer at Id Software (Doom, Doom Eternal)

Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate

Several devs at id Software have expressed their concerns over the specs of Microsoft’s Xbox Series S, more specifically, its memory.

wccftech.com

 

[Rikkori]

This game looks incredible with its Raytracing day/night cycle.

 

[THE DUCK]

Oh good another article about series s twisted so that people can baselessly say series s is holding back next gen. If you actually read the whole article, it says even though it wasn't much work at all to get it running. Non issue.
This is akin to todays fox news article front page saying "vaccinated person gets covid!". Omg, vaccinated people will get covid. They write an article for splash on something that is a zero issue, just like this thread. It should have read "vaccinated people need to know - you will still get covid but with mild symptoms"

This thread read "Next gen features have to be fitted to xss!!!!" When it should have read "developer says it won't take much work for xss version".

 

[danielJackson]

Oh good another article about series s twisted so that people can baselessly say series s is holding back next gen. If you actually read the whole article, it says even though it wasn't much work at all to get it running. Non issue.
This is akin to todays fox news article front page saying "vaccinated person gets covid!". Omg, vaccinated people will get covid. They write an article for splash on something that is a zero issue, just like this thread. It should have read "vaccinated people need to know - you will still get covid but with mild symptoms"

This thread read "Next gen features have to be fitted to xss!!!!" When it should have read "developer says it won't take much work for xss version".

Oh good another xbox defender whom didnt even read the whole thread and those AAA-devs stating the same.

It is not black and white, of course in some cases worse specs limit what devs can do. Like if 16Gb is really the lowest amount that is enough to thir vision

Even when resolution is lower on xss

 

[DarkMage619]

Oh good another article about series s twisted so that people can baselessly say series s is holding back next gen. If you actually read the whole article, it says even though it wasn't much work at all to get it running. Non issue.
This is akin to todays fox news article front page saying "vaccinated person gets covid!". Omg, vaccinated people will get covid. They write an article for splash on something that is a zero issue, just like this thread. It should have read "vaccinated people need to know - you will still get covid but with mild symptoms"

This thread read "Next gen features have to be fitted to xss!!!!" When it should have read "developer says it won't take much work for xss version".

The XSS will help to expand the gaming market that is way more important that appealing to the gaming elite. If great games could be made on the PS4 and X1 I'm certain the XSS will be fine. It is clearly more powerful than those systems.

 

[kikkis]

Imagine the shitstorm if major third party developer drops support for XSS, because RAM limitations.

 

[Nhranaghacon]

I read this as "We are exactly the type of Dev that will short change consumers graphically anyways, so it is really unfair we have to work extra to make our work look even worse on lesser consoles"

 

[Fess]

Why is there a concern for this? Why even spending time thinking about this? Time will tell how things go and it's not like anybody here can do anything about it. Buy a PC if you're worried about the future, this looks 100% like a mouse and keyboard PC game anyway.

 

[sinnergy]

Duh, building 1 house is easier than 2. Having 1 child is easier than 2. And the sky is blue.

 

[Heisenberg007]

This isn't news. As expected and already confirmed by multiple developers already.

XSS already didn't turn out to be as it was promised (i.e., just like Series X versions but in 1440p). It runs most games in 1080p or lower. Many games use lower graphical settings + no ray-tracing options.

I hope that wasn't the case because $299 would've been crazy value for a next-gen gaming machine at 1440p (or even 1080p if everything else was the same as the XSX version).

 

[Kenpachii]

Lol they suddently caring about holding things back.

Then don't release it for the xbox? oh wait.

The PS5 is also holding things back

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

I don't know man, Gaben has said anything about Xbox being difficult to make games for (unlike PS3 back in the day). So yeah not quite convinced XSS will hold back games. One thing for certain is consumers won't hold back in trading their XSS for X1X when games start looking 600p-900p

 

[Panajev2001a]

The XSS will help to expand the gaming market that is way more important that appealing to the gaming elite

Phil as a modern Che Guevara fighting against the elite... down with the gaming elite, poor people that could not afford $399 have a super easy time spending $299 an feeding their families the rest of the month with $100 (minus GamePass Ultimate) .

You know it full well it would have been a better offer that lasted a lot longer for users and made developers life easier (thus better games for everyone) if there had been a digital only 0.5-1 TB of SSD XSX at $349-399 but gotta keep circling the wagons and protect XSS from criticism.

All of that just to toss aside any concern about generational improvements or it being a clear move to push to be closer and closer to an Apple style iterative HW release of a new platform every few years with relatively small jumps across each (another company doing it to appeal to poor people unable to afford its products).

 

[Panajev2001a]

Two award winning AAA game engine programmers from now Xbox 1st party studio Id Software agree.
The XSS RAM is a clear issue and bottleneck. And these guys code AAA multiplats for a living. They know their shit.

They both of course sad this before Xbox bought Bethesda lol and deleted the tweets later.


Axel Gneiting - Engine Programmer at Id Software (Doom, Doom Eternal)

Billy Khan - Lead Engine Programmer at Id Software (Doom, Doom Eternal)

Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate

Several devs at id Software have expressed their concerns over the specs of Microsoft’s Xbox Series S, more specifically, its memory.

wccftech.com

Everytime I see this appearing (and there are other developers are supporting these statements too) we have hilarious comebacks about Phil draining the swamp or fighting against the elite... .

 

[nikolino840]

Hahahahha it ain't laziness, it's about dev time. How much time are you going to spend optimising something when 1440p is no longer expected?

Time is money. MS just keep tripping themselves up every gen.

Hold back is a thing,but lying saying is holding back when in reality is becouse of money is an another thing

 

[jezhumphrey75]

Is it? So why are loads of games 1080p?

it's up to game developers not microsoft.

 

[Nezzeroth]

Which is still lower than XSS, so... I don't know. The differnce between good devs and bad ones, is that good ones optimalise their codebase.

It has nothing to do with being a good or a bad dev, it's about dedicating time and money to it. If you're on a limited budget as a dev there's not a lot you can do.