Right Let's Try This Again: PS3 Hypervisor Hacked

Kccitystar said:
Why would anybody wish to install PS3 games to the hard drive completely, isn't like one disc 25GB or something like that? How would that work? :lol

The actual size of PS3 games is a lot smaller. Since just about all multiplatform games have to fit on a Xbox 360 DVD as well (7GB usuable space), this is true of most PS3 games as well. http://orlydb.com/s/ps3 lists disc sizes for a number of PS3 games.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I'd like to applaud them for their considerable efforts on the DS, except it seems like Activision is the only one that bothered to try.

Hey, EA published that one DS game that one time when seven guys created it while they were supposed to be working on Madden.

SmokyDave said:
Thanks man, they're always illuminating. I just struggle with understanding the effects of piracy because the reality doesn't seem to match the theory.

Which theory do you mean here, exactly?
 
Alain-Christian said:
Well, for Blu-Ray the regions are pretty good. There's only three of them. America nd Japan are on the same region. Speaking for myself there's no need to have any blu-ray player to see the content I desire.
Ugh, what I meant to say was there's no reason to hack the region lockout, speaking for myself that is. Most anime fans will agree, I'm sure. Many anime fans assume the Blu-Ray lockout is the same as DVD like I once did.

If I ever get a Blu-Ray play or DVD I'm getting MAcross Frontier. I know I could pirate it but I'd rather own it. Macross Frontier is special, damnit!
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8478764.stm

A US hacker who gained notoriety for unlocking Apple's iPhone as a teenager has told BBC News that he has now hacked Sony's PlayStation 3 (PS3).

George Hotz said the hack, which could allow people to run pirated games or homemade software, took him five weeks.

He said he was still refining the technique but intended to post full details online soon.

The PS3 is the only games console that has not been hacked, despite being on the market for three years.

"It's supposed to be unhackable - but nothing is unhackable," Mr Hotz told BBC News.

"I can now do whatever I want with the system. It's like I've got an awesome new power - I'm just not sure how to wield it."

Sony said it was "investigating the report" and would "clarify the situation" when it had more information.

Mr Hotz said that he had begun the hack last summer when he had spent three weeks analysing the hardware.

After a long break, he spent a further two weeks cracking the console, which he described as a "very secure system".

He said that he was not yet ready to reveal the full details of the hack but said that it was "5% hardware and 95% software".

"You can use hardware to inject an insecurity and then you can build on that," he said.

He admitted that he had not managed to hack the whole system, including the protected memory, but had worked out ways to trick the console into doing what he wanted.

Mr Hotz said that he was continuing to work on the hack and, once finished, would publish details online in a similar way to his previous iPhone exploits.

In particular, he said, he would publish details of the console's "root key", a master code that once known would make it easier for others to decipher and hack other security features on the console.

He said his motivation was "curiosity" and "opening up the platform".

"To tell you the truth, I've never really played a PS3," he said. "I have one game, but I've never really played it."

Opening the system could allow people to install other operating systems on their console and play homemade games, he said.

In addition, he said, the hack would allow people to play older PS2 games on their consoles.

Recent versions of the PS3 do not have the ability to play PS2 games after Sony controversially removed a piece of hardware.

He admitted that it could also allow people to run pirated games.

"I'm not going to personally have anything to do with that," he told BBC News.

Gaming firms do not take the issue of game piracy and console modification lightly. Recently, Microsoft disconnected thousands of gamers from its online gaming service Xbox Live for modifying their consoles to play pirated games.

Mr Hotz said that the nature of his PS3 hack means that Sony may have difficulty patching the exploit.

"We are investigating the report and will clarify the situation once we have more information," said a Sony spokesman.

Mr Hotz rose to fame in 2007 at the age of 17 when he unlocked the iPhone, which could only be used on the AT&T network in the US at launch.

The hack allowed the popular handset to be used on any network.

He has since released various other hacks, allowing people to unlock later versions of the popular handset.

Bolded the important parts.
 
H_Prestige said:
So this hack will definitely require users to physically modify (butcher) their console in some way?

Not necessarily. Once the root key is known, it could be possible to create a custom firmware that runs unsigned code.
 
That would be seriously screwed up if all PS3's sold had the ability to play PS2 disc games but Sony disabled it on the software side on purpose.
 
From the BBC article, it sounds like he's claiming to be able to run unsigned code now. That'd be a step up from his previous claims.

New blog update soon I guess?
 
OldJadedGamer said:
That would be seriously screwed up if all PS3's sold had the ability to play PS2 disc games but Sony disabled it on the software side on purpose.

I think he means the older ones with the chip still in them would run PS2 games, whereas new ones without the chip would not be able to. I think he means older ones will play PS2 rips as well as PS3 rips, whereas newer PS3s without the hardware required would only play PS3 rips.
 
I'm curious as to what he means by saying it would let users run PS2 games on the console. Either he was hacking a PS3 with BC capabilities, or he knows something we don't.
 
OldJadedGamer said:
That would be seriously screwed up if all PS3's sold had the ability to play PS2 disc games but Sony disabled it on the software side on purpose.

No, that would be awesome, as Sony announced the release of a PS2-compatibility firmware aimed at helping to fight against this new hack. OMG NEW FEATURE!! :lol

I'm sure that's not what the quote meant though.
 
He said his motivation was "curiosity" and "opening up the platform".

"To tell you the truth, I've never really played a PS3," he said. "I have one game, but I've never really played it."

Can just see every collective PS3 devs eyes rolling at this segment :lol It doesnt sound like he's got too far with it to be honest, so we'll see. Either way its good that it would require hardware to use and hopefully that will always be the case so only the absolutely devoted to losing PSN and warranty stuff would be prepared to do it.

What will Sony's next move be really? Its just bizarre to see the guy just broadcasting himself everywhere, I assume he expects a job from this, but still.
 
AndyD said:
I think he means the older ones with the chip still in them would run PS2 games, whereas new ones without the chip would not be able to. I think he means older ones will play PS2 rips as well as PS3 rips, whereas newer PS3s without the hardware required would only play PS3 rips.

That's really stretching his quote. Either Sony has a beta software PS2 emulator in retail firmwares that hasn't been enable yet, or Geohot really doesn't know what he's talking about. Sony does have a beta full PSP emulator in retail firmwares, but that's actually being used for something (Minis). I'm going with Geohot doesn't know what's involved with PS2 emulation; he's clearly not following the scene much, he just jumped in to hack the "unhackable".

I wonder if he's referring to full r/w memory access as being able to do anything he wants... from what I've read from very knowledgable sources, those aren't the same thing. At all.
 
BBC goes on to explain that newer PS3s don't have BC...and I'm sure Geohot knows this as well.

I think it heavily implies BC for all...but we'll see.
 
Mad_Ban said:
I'm curious as to what he means by saying it would let users run PS2 games on the console. Either he was hacking a PS3 with BC capabilities, or he knows something we don't.

He's referring to a homebrew PS2 emulator. Not one that will necessarily run perfectly.
 
OldJadedGamer said:
That would be seriously screwed up if all PS3's sold had the ability to play PS2 disc games but Sony disabled it on the software side on purpose.

I could have sworn i've seen videos on YouTube of 40GB models playing PS2 games through some service mode trickery. They didn't work, or would only get up to the first loading screen, but I think it's clear they're at least working on it (if those videos are legit).
 
androvsky said:
That's really stretching his quote. Either Sony has a beta software PS2 emulator in retail firmwares that hasn't been enable yet, or Geohot really doesn't know what he's talking about. Sony does have a beta full PSP emulator in retail firmwares, but that's actually being used for something (Minis). I'm going with Geohot doesn't know what's involved with PS2 emulation; he's clearly not following the scene much, he just jumped in to hack the "unhackable".

I wonder if he's referring to full r/w memory access as being able to do anything he wants... from what I've read from very knowledgable sources, those aren't the same thing. At all.

I am going more on his blogpost where he said he hacked an older hardware BC PS3 which he has had for almost 2 years and where he acknowledged that newer PS3s lack the hardware.

He seems to lay it out more in the blogpost and in the interview he was just answering "big topic" questions.

But its known Sony have been working on a full software emulator. And like many other things it could have made its way into the firmware already before being turned on for the public at large.

It would somewhat be a good thing if it forces Sony to push ahead and release an emulator officially. It would be bad because it would force them to work on this instead of other new features.
 
-viper- said:
There needs to be a hack which removes the FAT32 file system.
It would most likely break some games. I'd be willing to bet that there's some coders out there who backdoored (what I assume are) VFS calls to write their own FAT calls directly.
 
Imagine a Homebrew Channel-like app that is installed via the 'Other OS' option but has full access to the hardware without actually having to interfere or modify the XMB. This would be ideal.

Still, I'm not into piracy and I feel the XMB is a fine media player / streamer, so I'm not sure what homebrew could really appeal to me, save for MAME maybe.
 
charlequin said:
No, that would be awesome, as Sony announced the release of a PS2-compatibility firmware aimed at helping to fight against this new hack. OMG NEW FEATURE!! :lol

I'm sure that's not what the quote meant though.

:lol :lol shiiiiit better than nothing.
 
I would love if this turns into a true homebrew solution without any compromises to the core experience. But then reality sets in, and at some point I have to acknowledge that even if this does pan out, it'll probably either get fixed quickly, or result in getting locked out of PSN/multiplayer, or both.

Still, it's a very interesting development.
 
keyrat said:
Imagine a Homebrew Channel-like app that is installed via the 'Other OS' option but has full access to the hardware without actually having to interfere or modify the XMB. This would be ideal.

Still, I'm not into piracy and I feel the XMB is a fine media player / streamer, so I'm not sure what homebrew could really appeal to me, save for MAME maybe.
This....XMBC on otherOS would be phenomenal! MAME and most every other system (shy of Xbox) could be emulated. I purposely bought my 60GB for this very reason...the day it gets unlocked.
 
The Register had an interview with him too. Half wondering if the BBC just took from them because a lot of the comments are the same.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/25/playstation_cracked_wide_open/

"Basically, I used hardware to open a small hole and then used software to make the hole the size of the system to get full read/write access," he said in an interview. "Right now, although the system is broken, I have great power. I can make they system do whatever I want."

The first three weeks were spent trying attacks to directly access memory of the console. He eventually settled on his current approach after realizing software approaches alone were insufficient.


Geohot said he doesn't plan to release the software used to unlock the box until he can make it more reliable. It currently takes about 15 minutes to run and frequently fails to work properly. "If I posted what I have now, people would get fed up with it," he said.

He praised the PS3 as a "pretty secure system," that was harder to hack than many hardware systems he has penetrated.

"One of the main things Sony did right was put all the security on at once," he explained. "From day 1, the PS3 was secure."

By contrast, anti-hacking protections in the iPhone were rolled out over time, allowing him to gain important insights into the overall design that helped him defeat changes that were introduced later.

"If the iPhone right now was released as is, it would be much harder for people to crack," he said. "With the iPhone, when a new version comes out, we can decrypt it right away because we have exploits for the old version."

I'm trying to figure out if his claims here are new over what was made in the blog. With full read/write memory access it might be assumed you can 'do whatever you want', but I think people would like to know explicitly if he's got unsigned code running or not.
 
most exciting prospect about this for me would just be a customizable xmb. other than that i dont think i would even look into it, myself
 
Still, I'm not into piracy and I feel the XMB is a fine media player / streamer, so I'm not sure what homebrew could really appeal to me, save for MAME maybe.

:D

anyway, I'd like to see this just so I can finally have a region-free Blu-Ray player
 
gofreak said:
I'm trying to figure out if his claims here are new over what was made in the blog. With full read/write memory access it might be assumed you can 'do whatever you want', but I think people would like to know explicitly if he's got unsigned code running or not.

I'm still waiting to see something more concrete.
 
gofreak said:
I'm trying to figure out if his claims here are new over what was made in the blog. With full read/write memory access it might be assumed you can 'do whatever you want', but I think people would like to know explicitly if he's got unsigned code running or not.

If he attempts to execute unsigned code, then it would send an invalid signature to the hypervisor. Since he has full hypervisor access, he can just tell it to ignore the broken signature. I'm thinking he doesn't know how to code anything that the PS3 would see as an executable. The way I understand it, he's saying "I don't have any code to test, but if I did, then it would run."
 
Alec said:
If he attempts to execute unsigned code, then it would send an invalid signature to the hypervisor. Since he has full hypervisor access, he can just tell it to ignore the broken signature. I'm thinking he doesn't know how to code anything that the PS3 would see as an executable. The way I understand it, he's saying "I don't have any code to test, but if I did, then it would run."

Some people earlier were saying even with full control over the hypervisor, the CPU still has roadblocks in place to reject code.
 
Valkyr Junkie said:
Some people earlier were saying even with full control over the hypervisor, the CPU still has roadblocks in place to reject code.

Those people have confronted Geohot about this in his blog's comments section and he has said that it's not a problem for his exploit.
 
Kyzer said:
most exciting prospect about this for me would just be a customizable xmb. other than that i dont think i would even look into it, myself

I didn't think about this. This would be great like removing the redundant Store links, removing the "what's new", getting rid of the ticker forever, making the XMB default to whatever channel you want rather than just the games channel, and cleaning up the XMB to remove channels you never use like Music and photos (if you don't use them).
 
OldJadedGamer said:
I didn't think about this. This would be great like removing the redundant Store links, removing the "what's new", getting rid of the ticker forever, making the XMB default to whatever channel you want rather than just the games channel, and cleaning up the XMB to remove channels you never use like Music and photos (if you don't use them).

Not only those functions but have you seen CFW psp themes?

CFW psp themes
 
JudgeN said:
Wait this person doing interviews? Where are the Sony Ninja's to silence this mofo?
Oh, they're watching him... in disguise

263g3et.gif
 
Mario said:
Such decisions are based on a mix of ...assumption.

Know what they say about assumptions... Ass u, etc.

I didn't think about this. This would be great like removing the redundant Store links, removing the "what's new", getting rid of the ticker forever, making the XMB default to whatever channel you want rather than just the games channel, and cleaning up the XMB to remove channels you never use like Music and photos (if you don't use them).

Oh, hell yes. Finally removing the ticker + photo application would get me to hack the PS3 day-one.

You hear that, Sony? GIVING ME THE GODDAMN OPTION TO CUSTOMIZE MY GODDAMN XMB THE WAY I WANT would stop me from doing this. (Oh, hey I said this every goddamn firmware thread on GAF so far)
 
Alec said:
Those people have confronted Geohot about this in his blog's comments section and he has said that it's not a problem for his exploit.
I've always been curious about these type of things...I wonder if the exploit occurs after this point in the chain of security or if he's found a way to simply by pass it. Looking for to hearing more...
 
What's killing me reading all this is all the people hoping for things from homebrew that were possible simply by installing linux on the PS3. Hell, MAME didn't even require an installation, there's a bootable ISO that you put on a USB drive; just add ROMs.

XBMC was possible. The main holdback from the XBMC devs point of view was that their interface required OpenGL, so they didn't want to bother with the PS3's linux. There is a Cell-accelerated OpenGL in the works, it should be plenty for just an interface. I thinking about installing XBMC on the PS3 in linux as a summer project. MythTV and Freeview worked just fine though. The big problem is that all of those media center frontends use mplayer as the actual video playback software, and the mplayer PS3 port never made much progress.

The only possible improvement is if XBMC gets modified to use Sony's video playback libraries, in which case... still no MKV! :lol
 
It's pretty astounding that SCE went from the least protected console ever built (PSP, which in its 1.0 Japanese incarnation has even failed to do any kind of checks to see if it's running homebrew code or official code) to something like PS3.

I see now also that his claim to have hacked it in 5 weeks is also only half truth. It seems like he gave up on it at first and only much later figured something else out, how to hack something using extra hardware.
 
Lord Error said:
It's pretty astounding that SCE went from the least protected console ever built (PSP, which in its 1.0 Japanese incarnation has even failed to do any kind of checks to see if it's running homebrew code or official code) to something like PS3.

I see now also that his claim to have hacked it in 5 weeks is also only half truth. It seems like he gave up on it at first and only much later figured something else out, and hacked something.

Providing he got in the castle, this praise for SCE is all for naught.
 
lupinko said:
Providing he got in the castle, this praise for SCE is all for naught.
At this point there's been so many PS3 games that couldn't have been pirated (and that sold as much as they would ever sell) that even if the full hack surfaces tomorrow, all the developers making those games should be pretty happy with how the system is secured - if they think piracy would have ruined their sales.
 
Lord Error said:
I see now also that his claim to have hacked it in 5 weeks is also only half truth. It seems like he gave up on it at first and only much later figured something else out, how to hack something using extra hardware.

I get this impression too...that he tried via software but hit a brick wall. It was 5 weeks from when he had everything he needed to accomplish the goal. I still consider that 5 weeks, though. =)
 
Top Bottom