Support NeoGAF

[Sleepwalker]

The only reason women dress sexy is to please men. Man are making these rules because of teh Patriarchy and whamen are victims...

This is a free woman, true to herself....

No chance that's a woman, I refuse to believe it. Probably just a resetera mod

 

[Zoro7]

Yeah, in this reality *normal* girls dont wear high heels, short skirts, nice dresses, skinny jeans or hotpants just to gather attention of boys.
Try to go outside for a moment.
And it's not like they don't have choice to wear baggy unrevealing bland clothes

You were talking about how most girls enjoy cosplaying? I suggest it’s you who needs to go out a bit more.

 

[A.Romero]

I guess it is a suicide squad game then and not bait and switch for a justice league game...

I don't know in this particular case but this shit does happen sometimes and it's not necessarily about a woman trying to destroy an innocent man's life. It can suck to be harrased.

If they wrote a letter and tried to get management attention they did what they were supposed to. However, it does sound fishy that they waited 2 years to go to the papers.

 

[Thicc Enigma]

Fandome is just days away and this comes out NOW. The timing of this lol it's all part of the plan. I see right through you victims

 

[Cyborg]

Some of the comments in here are disturbing!

 

[Sixkiller]

Rocksteady's character designs have always been pretty consistent. The male ones are just as OTT and 'sexy' as the female ones. It's also pretty dumb to complain about the design of Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy, when those designs are really just pretty faithful translations of already existing characters from comics and other Batman media. What are they supposed to do, "uglify" them just because this is a videogame? Best make Batman overweight and lacking in muscle then too...

 

[GHG]

They shouldn't have hired Johnny Bravo in the first place.

Obligatory:

 

[thief183]

I will never employ a woman, never.

 

[Shmunter]

Men now avoid women at work – another sign we're being punished for #MeToo | Arwa Mahdawi

A new study has found US men appear to be following Mike Pence’s lead. Maybe they’re angry that #MeToo ever happened

www.theguardian.com

 

[FunkMiller]

It’s absolutely disgusting for women to be sexually harassed in the workplace, and every effort should be made to stop it.

Characters and storylines in video games should never be used to push a political agenda first. It’s an Incredibly stupid thing to do.

Both of these statements are true, and if you don’t realise that, you really are part of the problem.

 

[Teslerum]

It’s absolutely disgusting for women to be sexually harassed in the workplace, and every effort should be made to stop it.

Characters and storylines in video games should never be used to push a political agenda first. It’s an Incredibly stupid thing to do.

Both of these statements are true, and if you don’t realise that, you really are part of the problem.

They are, but the first statement requires us to define sexual harassement in the workplace and therein lies the crux of the problem.

Because gone are the days this reffered to grabbing, sexual proposition in exchange for favor or voyeur behavior.

Now its *don’t even look at me wrong and how dare you ask me out*

 

[Zathalus]

The signatory said the dismissive attitude towards women had in the past carried over into the company’s output. “Rocksteady doesn’t have the best reputation for representing women,” she said, citing the highly sexualised design and costuming of characters such as Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn in previous games. “Sometimes you could see the surprise on their face when you said that’s not how women dress.”

Men don't usually go around dressed at bats either.

 

[cormack12]

Holey female abuse Batman

 

[cormack12]

Men now avoid women at work – another sign we're being punished for #MeToo | Arwa Mahdawi

A new study has found US men appear to be following Mike Pence’s lead. Maybe they’re angry that #MeToo ever happened

www.theguardian.com

That author is a moron.

'Men are terrified...

The answer to that question, perhaps, is that a lot of men aren’t so much afraid of being accused of anything as they are they are angry that #MeToo ever happened.

The problem isn't that men think a handshake is a problem, it's that the precedent has been set that any random woman can say shit like

'His hand lingered too long on a handshake...'
'He used to shake my hand repeatedly to touch me...'
'His handshakes made me feel uncomfortable....'

And it is treated as harassment. So it's easier for them to just avoid putting themselves in that line or exposing themselves to future cruel and vindictive exaggerated claims

 

[Thirty7ven]

Getting tiresome the whole women defining how everyone can or not behave.

Unwanted physical contact should be punished but women don’t get to choose who attempts to advance on them. This shit isn’t twilight or fifty shades of grey, you get what you get. It’s as easy as saying “thank you but no thank you”.

 

[B-universe]

It’s absolutely disgusting for women to be sexually harassed in the workplace, and every effort should be made to stop it.

Characters and storylines in video games should never be used to push a political agenda first. It’s an Incredibly stupid thing to do.

Both of these statements are true, and if you don’t realise that, you really are part of the problem.

We must first clearly, unambiguously define sexual harassment. It seems to me the definition has changed considerably over past years, and always in the same ever expanding direction, as part of the never ending war on language.

Is leering, which is mentioned in the article, sexual harassment? Really? Under what circumstances? Is asking a colleague out sexual harassment? Really? Under what circumstances? Is complementing a colleague on her looks sexual harassment? Really? Under what circumstances. Is a light touch on the shoulder sexual harassment? Really? Under what circumstances?

In the context of this discussion, sexism is the belief women ae inherently inferior to men. What action or omission by Rocksteady betrays such belief? Likewise, misogyny is disdain and hatred for women in general. What statement or action by Rocksteady betrays that attitude towards women?

It's always possible the article is deliberately omitting sensitive but crucial details. But none of the behaviours ascribed to Rocksteady management so far remotely qualify as sexist or misogynistic.

Developers have the right to use characters and, more broadly, their games to push any political or ideological agenda. However, they should be aware that people who disagree with the agenda in question will probably pass on the game.

It goes both ways.

 

[Goro Majima]

The wording makes me think it’s a couple toxic coworkers that the company isn’t doing anything about. I don’t tend to think a group of 10 women are looking to be scam artists or raise false alarms knowing that there’s likely a lot of downside here.

Although way to come off as disingenuous by citing designs that are “too sexual” considering the source material. Couldn’t roll my eyes hard enough at that.

 

[Ellery]

I will never employ a woman, never.

Are you in a position to?

Some of the comments in here are disturbing!

yup. Childish virgin manlets being wronged by the world can finally take revenge in the comment section of a video game message board and go on a toxic misogynistic rant defending harassment, because they are afraid their video games are being taken away and their favorite female video game characters won't run around in a bikini on a battlefield anymore.
Some few posts are absolutely disgusting.

 

[FunkMiller]

Getting tiresome the whole women defining how everyone can or not behave.

Unwanted physical contact should be punished but women don’t get to choose who attempts to advance on them. This shit isn’t twilight or fifty shades of grey, you get what you get. It’s as easy as saying “thank you but no thank you”.

This only works when the guy in question isn’t a cunt, and leaves her alone. The point being, some men are cunts, and need to be dealt with properly. If that happens, all of this gets much better.

 

[M1chl]

only 16? era must be crying right now

That is their bigger concern than someone getting harassed....

 

[Goro Majima]

This only works when the guy in question isn’t a cunt, and leaves her alone. The point being, some men are cunts, and need to be dealt with properly. If that happens, all of this gets much better.

Yeah I can’t be the only one who has known shitty guys that look at a wedding ring as more of a challenge than a stop sign.

 

[cormack12]

Yeah I can’t be the only one who has known shitty guys that look at a wedding ring as more of a challenge than a stop sign.

You cam flirt with married women without it being harassment though. And if both are up for it theres no problem surely.

 

[namekuseijin]

you just can't be male anymore. Proceed to castration.

once all Western males are castrated and docile and well fed on soy, it's time to welcome your new aggressive male Arab, Russian, Chinese and Indian overlords, feminazi bitches

 

[GymWolf]

Imagine risking your job for this chick...

 

[Shmunter]

You cam flirt with married women without it being harassment though. And if both are up for it theres no problem surely.

It’s only harassment if he’s not good looking

 

[Thirty7ven]

This only works when the guy in question isn’t a cunt, and leaves her alone. The point being, some men are cunts, and need to be dealt with properly. If that happens, all of this gets much better.

Sure, but most men aren’t overconfident pricks despite the narrative going on.

There’s a culture of fear that is overly exaggerated. I’ve had women co-workers advance on me and lay it on pretty thick during work related events, despite being married, and I’ve never thrown a tantrum.

Life can’t all be lived through dating apps. People will try to connect in real life and as long as you are in control of your actions, you decide the result.

Yes some people are cunts. But I’ve seen first hand co-workers coming to the work place dressed to sexually attract(short skirts and cleavage? I'm sorry what the fuck, are guys dressing anything like that?????) and when the guy they want shows interest it’s all good but when it’s the guy they don’t want it suddenly becomes a “work place problem”.

edit: Just to add, what I’m saying is that there needs to be a clear difference between abusive, stalking behavior and standard shit like “unwanted advancements“. If you have text proof of a guy stalking you, you can effectively ruin his career at the workplace.

A woman having no agency of her own is simply not something we should accept.

 

[Clear]

If its only a couple of problem employees how is it a company culture issue deserving of wholesale training/intervention?

Sounds more like an issue with HR, which I'm willing to bet is wholly staffed by women (because it always is).

I'd also question why the complainers didn't kick this up the ladder to WB corporate HR, which I do know as a fact is always an option for WB Games studios, and they are not the ones to take half-measures.

 

[Coolwhhip]

You can't spell cancel without can.

 

[Goro Majima]

You cam flirt with married women without it being harassment though. And if both are up for it theres no problem surely.

I mean that’s all kinda gross to me but yeah there’s no problem with respect to the subject at hand.

It’s only harassment if he’s not good looking

 

[B-universe]

(...)

yup. Childish virgin manlets being wronged by the world can finally take revenge in the comment section of a video game message board and go on a toxic misogynistic rant defending harassment, because they are afraid their video games are being taken away and their favorite female video game characters won't run around in a bikini on a battlefield anymore.

Theoretically speaking, some of that could be at play here, yes.

But I marvel at your psychic abilities, to read all that, to sum it all up and infer such detailed profiles from a line or two. Not me. I lack any kind of extrasensory perception.

Some few posts are absolutely disgusting.

People will be devastated by your opinion.

The solution is to show why they're wrong, which some clearly are. But you've already decided, via your psychic powers, they're not merely wrong, or misguided, or misinformed, or myopic, or express themselves poorly or ambiguously. No, they're Incels and thus beyond your merciful charitable help.

 

[FunkMiller]

Sure, but most men aren’t overconfident pricks despite the narrative going on.

There’s a culture of fear that is overly exaggerated. I’ve had women co-workers advance on me and lay it on pretty thick during work related events, despite being married, and I’ve never thrown a tantrum.

Life can’t all be lived through dating apps. People will try to connect in real life and as long as you are in control of your actions, you decide the result.

Yes some people are cunts. But I’ve seen first hand co-workers coming to the work place dressed to sexually attract and when the guy they want shows interest it’s all good but when it’s the guy they don’t want it suddenly becomes a “work place problem”.

edit: Just to add, what I’m saying is that there needs to be a clear difference between abusive, stalking behavior and standard shit like “unwanted advancements“. If you have text proof of a guy stalking you, you can effectively ruin his career at the workplace.

A woman having no agency of her own is simply not something we should accept.

It's only a work place problem if the guy in question doesn't leave her alone, if she makes it clear she isn't interested. Because, as already stated - that would make him a cunt.

This really isn't difficult...

Man who shows interest in female work colleague, and backs off when she makes it clear she isn't interested = perfectly decent chap.

Man who shows interest in female work colleague, and doesn't back off when she makes it clear she isn't interested = hammering cunt.

And guess what?!

Woman who shows interest in male work colleague, and backs off when he makes it clear he isn't interested = perfectly decent lass.

Woman who shows interest in male work colleague, and doesn't back off when he makes it clear he isn't interested = hammering cunt.

You fire the cunts. You keep the decent chaps and lasses.

If more of that went on, none of this bullshit would be necessary.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

"Accused of inaction" is the saltiest nonsense I've heard yet.

Certainly, there are instances when a company was informed of harassment and does nothing about it. But this reads more like "they didn't fire the people we wanted and didn't make the changes we wanted".

Never give in to screechers. Next week they'll still accuse you of "inaction".

 

[MDSLKTR]

Rocksteady going the Ubisoft/ND way I see. Expect their output to go the same way too.

Im... totally clueless about this take.

 

[Paracelsus]

Every time they need to make a power grab, this happens.
At what point are they told to figuratively get bent?

 

[MagnesG]

It's only a work place problem if the guy in question doesn't leave her alone, if she makes it clear she isn't interested. Because, as already stated - that would make him a cunt.

This really isn't difficult...

Man who shows interest in female work colleague, and backs off when she makes it clear she isn't interested = perfectly decent chap.

Man who shows interest in female work colleague, and doesn't back off when she makes it clear she isn't interested = hammering cunt.

And guess what?!

Woman who shows interest in male work colleague, and backs off when he makes it clear he isn't interested = perfectly decent lass.

Woman who shows interest in male work colleague, and doesn't back off when he makes it clear he isn't interested = hammering cunt.

You fire the cunts. You keep the decent chaps and lasses.

If more of that went on, none of this bullshit would be necessary.

Except that's not how double standard works.

 

[Ellery]

Im... totally clueless about this take.

This person thinks that Ubisoft and Naughty Dog are making poltical statements now in their games by implementing LGBT content and having diverse characters instead of while males.
Now they fear that Rocksteady is going the same route and the games are being taken away from them.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Thirty7ven]

It's only a work place problem if the guy in question doesn't leave her alone, if she makes it clear she isn't interested. Because, as already stated - that would make him a cunt.

This really isn't difficult...

Man who shows interest in female work colleague, and backs off when she makes it clear she isn't interested = perfectly decent chap.

Man who shows interest in female work colleague, and doesn't back off when she makes it clear she isn't interested = hammering cunt.

And guess what?!

Woman who shows interest in male work colleague, and backs off when he makes it clear he isn't interested = perfectly decent lass.

Woman who shows interest in male work colleague, and doesn't back off when he makes it clear he isn't interested = hammering cunt.

You fire the cunts. You keep the decent chaps and lasses.

If more of that went on, none of this bullshit would be necessary.

That is all true, but the story isn't just about the cunts is it? It's about everything else too, the cunts have a role, but when shit starts being about how Harley Quin or Poison Ivy dress, you know what's up. These same women won't have a problem sexualizing Henry Cavill in the Witcher, and run over his instagram saying how they want his babies.

 

[joe_zazen]

So abbey is going to be the next batman?

 

[idrago01]

I will never employ a woman, never.

don't ask questions, diversity is strength

 

[Stitch]

The signatory said the dismissive attitude towards women had in the past carried over into the company’s output. “Rocksteady doesn’t have the best reputation for representing women,” she said, citing the highly sexualised design and costuming of characters such as Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn in previous games. “Sometimes you could see the surprise on their face when you said that’s not how women dress.”

yeah but guys dress up as bat all the fucking time

 

[FunkMiller]

That is all true, but the story isn't just about the cunts is it? It's about everything else too, the cunts have a role, but when shit starts being about how Harley Quin or Poison Ivy dress, you know what's up. These same women won't have a problem sexualizing Henry Cavill in the Witcher, and run over his instagram saying how they want his babies.

Indeed. And that the point of my initial post

don't ask questions, diversity is strength

Hiring the best person for the job is strength. And if that person is a woman, and the person hiring doesn’t give her the job because she’s a woman, then that would make that person a complete fucking idiot.

 

[Teslerum]

Hiring the best person for the job is strength. And if that person is a woman, and the person hiring doesn’t give her the job because she’s a woman, then that would make that person a complete fucking idiot.

I'd agree 100%, but how do you know that? It's not the 1960's anymore. In the modern corporate world the complete opposite happens and people get hired to fulfill a diversity quota. That is way more common than the opposite unless you live in certain countries.

Likewise again, regarding a previous post. No this shit isn't necessary. There are enough organizations to go to that support you rather than making bullshit public. If anything it encourages professional victims to make shit up about your former employers. Playing Jury/Judge and Executioner is NEVER a good solution to any problem.

(BTW this is independent of posters saying they wouldn't hire a women (I disagree), though I assume thats meant as a result of the toxic atmosphere spread exactly due to the mentioned fears of being accused. Best workplace has a decent ratio. Worst is when you put 1 women or 1 men into a group of the opposite sex. Only leads to problems).

 

[Elcid]

Absolute nonsense. Stop talking mate.

I speak only in truths. In fact, some people call me the Father of All Truths.

 

[llien]

“I have heard everything from groping claims to incidents involving [senior staff], all of whom are men,” she said. “Yet the only thing we had as a result was a company-wide seminar that lasted an hour. Everyone who attended was asked to sign a statement confirming that they’d received the training. It felt that it was a just way for them to cover their arses.”

I wonder, if she has actually seen anything.

 

[llien]

I’m sorry but most women don’t cosplay, or dress like that.

Yeah, as if the urge to feel attractive wasn't in our genes or something.

I don’t see what yous are so angry about, sexual harassment is sexual harassment it shouldn’t happen

We also should not take any "I've heard" stories, most of which are not even sexual harassment as sexual harassment.
Also, would you elaborate how making comments about "trans people" means sexually harassing women pretty please?

This isn't fighting for right things, this is riding trendy waves to win stupid prizes:

How “dongle” jokes got two people fired—and led to DDoS attacks

“Developer evangelist” offended by developer, tweets outrage, both are fired.

arstechnica.com

In fact, some people call me the Father of All Truths.

Greetings, the Father of All Truths, how are you today? (I hope the latter part of my comment doesn't come off as offensive)

 

[RJMacready73]

jesus some of you cunts need to go work in an actual office environment with real people, the majority of guys are respectful, the majority of women are fucking normal and not men hating feminists... you get the odd cunt (like a few of you cunts) who everybody just treats like a fucking leper and the world moves on... but as soon as a story raises its head about a woman (oh fucking noes) at odds with SOME of her male colleagues the fucking knives come out and the mudslingin starts, not at the cunts making her feel uncomfortable in the first place like a normal person but somehow its the womans fault... jesus wept

 

[B-universe]

Hiring the best person for the job is strength. And if that person is a woman, and the person hiring doesn’t give her the job because she’s a woman, then that would make that person a complete fucking idiot.

I completely agree.

Imagine risking your job for this chick...

So, in her own words, "97%" or "98%" or "99%" are wonderful people and only "one or two people" aren't "so good". Does this qualify as systemic?

Her recount of alleged sexism at Rocksteady involves a man harassing a female colleague of hers. This woman was not given "compassion leave". Because the requested investigation into the matter was probably still pending, she was required to work with the harassing male dev.

Apparently, the author of the video, Kim MacAskill, is deeply confused as to what sexism entails. Nor does she seem to understand what due process means. Apparently, her feelings are the responsability of the HR department as well.

13 minutes and 15 seconds of footage and, giving her the benefit of the doubt, taking everything she says at face value, questions about what's being reported spring to mind. Reproachable? Surely. Investigation-worthy? Absolutely. Sanction-deserving? No question. But no evidence whatsoever has been presented of sexism or misogyny at Rocksteady.

The Guardian, which also doesn't understand what sexism and misogyny entail, therefore seems to be the perfect receptacle for the article.

 

[Ellery]

jesus some of you cunts need to go work in an actual office environment with real people, the majority of guys are respectful, the majority of women are fucking normal and not men hating feminists... you get the odd cunt (like a few of you cunts) who everybody just treats like a fucking leper and the world moves on... but as soon as a story raises its head about a woman (oh fucking noes) at odds with SOME of her male colleagues the fucking knives come out and the mudslingin starts, not at the cunts making her feel uncomfortable in the first place like a normal person but somehow its the womans fault... jesus wept

yup. it says a lot about those people.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Some of the comments in here are disturbing!

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

The Internet/world has been shit for at least 6-10 years, no more nuance or giving poeple the benefit of doubt, it's all just you're either with me or against me, pure extremism

People became so vindictive because too many attention whores cried wolf (rape/harassment) too many times and made people automatically doubt or just plain don't believe them.

 

[llien]

Some of the comments in here are disturbing!

Some details are missing in some of the comments in this thread and I feel 4/10 offended and 2/10 outraged about it.