It is called separating the art from the artist. Like I have said, Polanski being a child molester in the 70s doesn't make Chinatown, The Pianist or Carnage (for example) bad films nor does it diminish his skill as a director
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Roman Polanski denied chance to close US rape case
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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It is called separating the art from the artist. Like I have said, Polanski being a child molester in the 70s doesn't make Chinatown, The Pianist or Carnage (for example) bad films nor does it diminish his skill as a director
MidnightCowboy
Member
My opinion on Polanski is that he is a piece of shit that deserves to be in jail, but I can't deny his talent as a director.
Well nice to see there are at least some people in this industry that have their head screwed on straight.
HOMEBOY OVER HERE
Banned
That's true but it also doesn't mean the academy should publicly acknowledge it. Rape culture right here in this post folks. Never saw his movie but I'm sure it's well done. Guy is a piece of shit and his work, no matter how "great" it is should not be acknowledged by society.
HOMEBOY OVER HERE
Banned
Rapist apologist. Wonder what your thoughts on this would be if it was a family member of yours (or you) as the victim and you saw society rewarding a man that is a know widely to be a sexually violent criminal.
Wiktor
Member
It's sad that Polanski gets a free pass in Hollywood but Mel is blacklisted for life for saying some stupig things in drunken stupor.
Anyway, the case will end only when he dies. He will never come back to USA and US courts will never be able to force other countries to extradite him.
Anyway, the case will end only when he dies. He will never come back to USA and US courts will never be able to force other countries to extradite him.
Wiktor
Member
You think that nobody should hire a rapist who, unlike Polanski, did his time?
Also..I get your victim argument, but this is the rare case where it doesn't work, because the victim not only has forgiven him, but also made a request to the american prosecutors to drop the case.
Separating the art from the artist, but awards given to him after the fact are still kind of gross, though many people worked on those films, so credit where it is due still (by that I mean I'd have less problems with a film he has made winning for something other than best director etc).
Not only a free pass, but a lot of supporters.
People were willing to give him a pass on that, frankly (forgive don't forget kind of thing), when those audio tapes came out of him repeating the same kind of language and threatening to kill his with and child or w/e he was done.
That's not rape culture, that's an objective statement. The issue you're rallying against however is that people in positions of power can use that power to get away with some pretty heinous things which also includes things that fall under rape culture. People let people get away with tons of things if they have the power to leverage, murder, theft, extortion...
CadetMahoney
Member
He's lived a long life and gotten away with rape of children with pats on the back from Hollywood.
All that will be left as punishment will be a footnote on his wiki.
This might be an odd question, but what do his victims think about the whole situation? They're the most important people here and if for some reason they've got over the hell they must've gone through and decide that nothing should be done, would people support that? I'm sorry if this sounds like a stupid question but I know very little about this case or the victims. If they still want him to stand trial and rightfully so it should happen though.
obin_gam
Member
It's victim as in singular. And she think's people should just let it go: http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/sep/18/samantha-geimer-roman-polanski-unlawful-sex-email
Over the decades, she has seen public response to her own story change with the times. "You'll notice the culture has shifted so that everything has swung the other way and now it's Roman the Monster. And then it was my mum and I the monsters." They were called liars and gold-diggers. Gore Vidal called her a hooker. "It was terrible and unwarranted, but not shocking. Well, some of it was shocking." It was also a long time ago. Polanski should be allowed to resolve his legal issues and come back to the US, she says. "Because that's what would be fair. Because it's the right thing." And her? She smiles. "I'm fine."
Because he had a trial and plead guilty. Most people don't get to have a trial, plead guilty, then reboot the entire process because they're worried how they pleaded originally would result in jail time.
The fact of the matter is that he drugged and raped a 13 year old. In 1977 he was allowed to plead that down to statutory rape, implying that the drugged 13 year old was a willing participant, just too young to give legal consent. He was too chickenshit to risk even a minute in jail, so he used his celebrity and wealth to flee the country.
If he was any random dude who pulled the same thing France would have extradited him as he walked off the plane. Because he makes snooty ass films they worship his feces and have shielded him for 37 years.
The U.S. should drop a drone on his house in France and be done with it. The entire French government is guilty of aiding and abetting a fugitive, so they're just asking for the collateral damage.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
thats not 100% true. He is still making lower budget movies and slowly the studios are trying to sneak him into behind the scene roles on bigger budget movies. With all that said there are signs that that is how Mel actually feels and not just a drunken stupor.
bodyboarder
Member
I'd take the drunken (maybe actual) thoughts someone has, over somebody actually raping someone.
ComputerMKII
Banned
I know it's hard to understand for some Americans but there are things called borders, due process and sovereignty.
Mel Gibson had multiple fuck ups beyond just the antisemitism (which is obviously hugely damaging in Hollywood) including threatening to basically murder his ex wife and let me tell you, the audio tapes of those conversations with his ex wife are ugly.Also Polanski fled the country and basically found enough people to continue to do what he does, so people had to live with it. It's MUCH easier to blacklist an actor than a Director that still has many friends in high places. That and the Mel Gibson thing is still very fresh in comparison.
onken
Member
Totally agree with all of this.
I thought you still got a trial if you plead guilty, just a shorter one.
Also, isn't that what a sentence bargain does? You do a plea bargain based on the sentence.
There were quite a lot of hate posts in response to the post that talked about his troubled past. I think part of that is because people sometimes forget that Explaining =/= Defending.
Mel ain't part of the tribe.
There is also a thing called extradition treaties. The U.S. and France have one. France doesn't honor it. Breaking deals specifically pertaining to your sovereign borders tends to make people not give a shit about the "due process" part.
Again, the French government are aiding and abetting a U.S. fugitive, in direct violation of their own laws and agreements with the United States.
People suspect Iraq of having WMDs with literally zero proof, just a lot of truthy feels in their guts - tens of thousands of soldiers, billions of dollars, and the lives of hundreds of thousands of civilians are offered up against this insult to the international community.
France obviously violates an international treaty to shield a self-confessed rapist - shoulders are shrugged and excuses are made.
White privilege I guess?
He needed to show up for sentencing, that was the last part to be processed. They let him plea down to lesser charges that would have had far less jail time associated than real rape. He still bailed because there was still some potential he'd see some time in jail.
He had 90% of his trial and bailed on the last 10% because even though he was handed a pro-rape culture + Hollywood celebrity sweetheart deal he wasn't willing to face a minute of real imprisonment. Because he's a piece of shit.
Saintguine
Member
He's a fucking scumbag who deserves his sentence but his work is amazing. His rendition of Macbeth is one of the best renditions of a Shakespearean play ever.
Just because someone is a piece of shit, doesn't remove any merit from their artistic work and achievements.
Polanski is a French citizen. France doesn't extradite its own citizens.
Still strange the judge thinks he didn't deserve a hearing in that case.
a level headed post, for once. excellent, agree 100%
John Kowalski
Banned
A sad occurrence all around, and to think that if he had just not raped the girl he would've probably had the chance to make a number of movies equally impressive to his current best.
pants
Member
thomas jane?
It's really not.
aGuyInaBearSuit
Member
I find it difficult to separate the art from the artist when what the artist did was so despicable.
Like, I've been going through old pay-per-views on the WWE Network, and I can't watch matches with Chris Benoit in them anymore. It's uncomfortable. Every time he does something, it has this sinister undertone to it now.
Watching Polanski's films would probably have the same effect on me. I'd probably subconsciously try to connect every little thing in those films to the motivations of child rape.
Like, I've been going through old pay-per-views on the WWE Network, and I can't watch matches with Chris Benoit in them anymore. It's uncomfortable. Every time he does something, it has this sinister undertone to it now.
Watching Polanski's films would probably have the same effect on me. I'd probably subconsciously try to connect every little thing in those films to the motivations of child rape.
s_mirage
Member
It didn't stop Victor Salva, and he's no Polanski in the directorial stakes.
ComputerMKII
Banned
There are schools of criticism that go the opposite way. It may be worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Author
DiipuSurotu
Banned
If the art was really separated from the artist, the awards would be called things like "best movie" not "best director".
AuthenticM
Member
The title says that Polanski himself denied the chance to close his own rape case. It should read "Polanski was denied".
Anyways, I am not surprised.
Anyways, I am not surprised.
LaserBuddha
Member
"Best director" means "best example of directing". It is still about the art.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Céline was both a genius and an asshole. At some moments he behaved like a genius and, some other moments, he was a piece of shit. I think the same can be said for Polanski and many other controversial artists.
I'm not sure you can say that any one part of their personality had an effect on the other, but in my opinion, you cannot ignore one part when forming a honest opinion on those people. People are complex beings. You've got to accept the fact that they did the best and the worst alike.
Now, should Polanski never receive any award? I don't think it's worth a philosophical debate. Just let the heads of the Academy decide, based on the official goals and statuses of the institution. Let them sort it out.
Auxiliary verbs are frequently dropped from news headlines.
ComputerMKII
Banned
(double post)
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Yes, people in this topic should watch it if they haven't.
Polanski is a piece of shit but this would've been resolved decades ago if the judge wasn't spotlight loving a media whore. The woman he raped has wanted this over and done with for a long time now because she's sick of being repeatedly dragged back into it.
gutter_trash
Banned
Polanski should go to prison for the equal amount of years that he has been on the run
I know, instead of addressing Mel's emotional problems and state of his mental sanity. Hollywood fluffy people just through him on the curb like trash.
Has Mel said stupid remarks, fuck yeah. But he is not right in the head and needed help instead of being ostracized
I know, instead of addressing Mel's emotional problems and state of his mental sanity. Hollywood fluffy people just through him on the curb like trash.
Has Mel said stupid remarks, fuck yeah. But he is not right in the head and needed help instead of being ostracized
Victims get over serious trauma so they can move on and have an actual life. It has nothing to do with a rapist actually being responsible for the crime.
gutter_trash
Banned
not all victims, lots of them suffer through PTSD through out their adult lives. Some develop other disorders.
a rape victim does not "get over it"" like a mugging victim can
entremet
Member
I listened to those tapes. He was obviously drunk. Not to defend what he said. She was also not his wife. They were never married. They did have a child together.
Hollywood is just that type of town. When you're shunned. You're shunned for good.
aygomyownroad
Member
He will never get brought to justice at this rate. Scum. No matter who you are you should face your crime and he should do the honourable thing.
I am glad the US court system didn't budge
I am glad the US court system didn't budge
If you were publicly attacked and shamed by Hollywood for being raped, you might say something like this too.
Oh I know. Just responding to horrible post saying because a victim may have moved on so should the courts.
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