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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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icarus-daedelus said:
Nope, sorry.
And because of said spider, it´s impossible for the church to forbid Catholic priests from having sex with little boys.
Evlar said:
True.
I´m still convinced that Eywa or someone Creationed the Na´vi.
Could make for some nice "debates" about evolution with Avatar 2/3. Probably with the same guys crying over the poor "Marines" getting killed for violating the rules of the RDA.
icarus-daedelus said:
I think Eywa could influence the humanoids as well. It's just they were already involved in the fight. If Eywa knew ahead of time that there was an imminent attack like when Jake was asking for help, I tend to believe it woulhd have warned the Na'vi as well.
The ones that need encouragement however were the animals since they didn't have a clue what was going on, but the Na'vi already did. Also, it's pretty clear that this is not something Ewya normally did. In fact, the Na'vi did not know of a time it had happened before which was why Ewya was considered neuitral in the affair.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
JGS said:
I remember reading an earlier post about the original scriptment for the film, how several people on earth have dreams of flying over a forest. Seeming that Eywa is calling to human kind to save them, since it only wants to protect the preservation of life. In the theatrical version, we only see Jake having the dream...but in fact it's many more on Earth. Haven't read the scriptment tho...
True. And even within the context of the movie, it's left entirely reasonable why Eywa would respond the way she did: she protects the "balance of life". A balance that was threatened by an outside intruder. So she reacted like a body attacking an infection: systemic rejection.JGS said:
It wasn't so much that she stayed neutral, as she was trying to keep a balance. And that means rejecting whatever forces threaten to be too destructive.
I just figured Eywa, being the internet of sorts, sent out a message to all inhabitants of Pandora that their world was under siege, and it would be in everyone's best interest to put aside their differences (ie. thanator curbing his desire to eat Na'vi) and fight to protect their world.
Monday's totals are in and Avatar is now the #5 highest grossing movie domestically. Will definitely hit #4 by Wednesday (possibly tomorrow) and #3 before the weekend is over. After that TDK should be around $60-65M away. Only two weeks after that at most?
No matter what, this movie is going to have people hate it for one reason or another. It is that way with everything in the entertainment business. No one can please EVERY person. If you enjoy it like me...then just enjoy it. Let others have their own opinions on what is good and what is bad because as time has shown...you will not change their minds..EVER.
Anyways...onto 2 billion Avatar! GO!
Anyways...onto 2 billion Avatar! GO!
GhaleonEB said:
I agree. I actually did a typo. I meant to say that she was considered neutral until the planet was attacked. That's when Neytiri realized she wasn't neutral at all, just the planet apparently had never endangered itself; it was only when us rascally humans came on the scene.
However, I do think her warning came from Jake in his "prayer".
LosDaddie said:
I thought the liberal message in Avatar was so cheesy and over the top that it wouldn't effect people in a serious way. It covers such common tropes that exist in other movies that it's hard to even quantify it as a "message" and more like a Hollywood cliche.
But this seems to happen every time some movies reach a certain threshold of public saturation. The media comes in and tries to overreach and create conflict where there is none. I remember the same kind of "battle" happened over Forrest Gump. Some claimed it was a liberal movie and some claimed it was a conservative movie. etc etc.
On that note: "the libertarian take on Avatar"ToxicAdam said:
JGS said:
Good points. I suppose the colonial america analogy had europeans getting members of one tribe to betray another tribe rather than starting intratribal conflict. But I still think we have merchantile goods the Na'vi might appreciate.
I'm sure Cameron would say the Na'vi are willing participants in the maintence of balance on Pandora. But in my view, a planet spanning organic network means that all other competition to said network has been eliminated. Eywa purposefully creates the Na'vi to act as caretakers to destroy anthign that challenges its worldwide dominance.
Think about it. To maintain the "balance" implies stasis. The Na'vi can't grow in numbers because their environment is fully exploited to the extent that it can be without resource loss. So they must endure rigorous breeding programs and create the ridiculously lethal rite of adulthood to control their numbers. They are ALL hunters, necessary to sustain their minimalist lifestyle (the lifestyle mandated by Eywa). There are no dedicated craftsmen, because the society can't support any. This is clearly evident when the reward for surviving the rite of adulthood is the "privilege" of making a bow from the home tree. In a more progressive society this would be some by a dedicated bowyer, as practice makes perfect, but for the Na'vi, everyone gets their one shot at it, regardless of their ability.
If the Na'vi were not kept in an infantile state by Eywa, they would rebel and begin to build themselves.
And I even think that Eywa doesn't care for the Na'vi in particular. Consider what it does. Jake makes his empassioned plea to the Na'vi. But they, passive as they are, do nothing and lose their home tree. Na'vi are killed, a tree is lost, but Eywa does nothing. But when EYWA itself, her network node, is threatened, it responds! I bet Jakes plea to Eywa is immaterial. The Na'vi defense is immaterial, the animals could have repelled that attack all on their own.
So Eywa acts to protect itself, the Na'vi are just the gardeners
Heh heh, the mere fact that I spend this time analyizing a film shows how much I like it
Anticitizen One
Banned
Count Dookkake said:
well what he said was they are the military but "out here they basically act like mercenaries"
jason10mm said:Good points. I suppose the colonial america analogy had europeans getting members of one tribe to betray another tribe rather than starting intratribal conflict. But I still think we have merchantile goods the Na'vi might appreciate.
I'm sure Cameron would say the Na'vi are willing participants in the maintence of balance on Pandora. But in my view, a planet spanning organic network means that all other competition to said network has been eliminated. Eywa purposefully creates the Na'vi to act as caretakers to destroy anthign that challenges its worldwide dominance.
Think about it. To maintain the "balance" implies stasis. [...]
So Eywa acts to protect itself, the Na'vi are just the gardeners
That's how I felt about Eywa, but couldn't quite articulate. Definately something that can be explored in a sequel though. The way Eywa chose Jake, I definitely thought it was using him somewhat and maybe that's why he could do that legendary feat. If Eywa was more aggressive, it would have been like a biological skynet.
Just saw it. 11:30AM showing, theater was 1/5 full which is pretty damn impressive I think for a Tuesday morning :lol
The movie was alright, good graphics for the most part (there were a few little quirks where the 3d didn't really work for me) predictable story but still a decent movie. There were a few short segments that didn't really belong in the film, but others really added to the film
. I can't wait to see the final "directors" cut though, sounds like some good stuff got cut to trim the film's length.
The movie was alright, good graphics for the most part (there were a few little quirks where the 3d didn't really work for me) predictable story but still a decent movie. There were a few short segments that didn't really belong in the film, but others really added to the film
the burning of his brother's corpse and then Jake waking up after the burning of the Home Tree
Dabookerman
Member
Somnia said:
Soon we will be getting pure vitriol hate threads and people calling this the worse movie ever and so forth.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
By the way, the bluray is being released on April 21. No idea what cuts there are. That is a date I saw being advertised here in Aus at video stores and I just read that as the date bandied about in the US by FOX.
That's a few days after my birthday.
That's a few days after my birthday.
Jill Sandwich
the turds of Optimus Prime
Going to go see it again this weekend now I've got some cash! Musn't forget the pizza.
So whos gonna learn how to speak Na'vi with me eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na'vi_language
Pretty crazy how indepth this is..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na'vi_language
Pretty crazy how indepth this is..
ryutaro's mama
Member
Scullibundo said:
Fake, stripped-down version, eh?
No thanks.
Count Dookkake
Member
Anticitizen One said:
No, that is not what he said.
ArachosiA 78
Member
Seen it 3 times now, but I still don't get one thing.
At the end when Neytiri is trying to revive Jake's avatar after she kills Quaritch, she somehow suddenly realizes that his human form is in the trailer next to her, and she jumps in to save him. There doesn't seem to be anything to inform her of this; she just figures it out on her own. She's obviously an intelligent creature, but I still find it hard to accept that she is able to figure this out on her own.
Furthermore, she is able to figure out that Jake needs the emergency air mask to stay alive. I suppose she could have recalled seeing other humans wearing these masks, but how would she know what they are for?
Furthermore, she is able to figure out that Jake needs the emergency air mask to stay alive. I suppose she could have recalled seeing other humans wearing these masks, but how would she know what they are for?
Not sure if we still need spoiler tags, but here goes:ArachosiA 78 said:
She was entirely focused on Jake until she noticed the alarm going off in the remote station; you can see her looking up and then around to investigate it after a few moments. She also would have seen the entire exchange between Jake and Quaritch, and probably known what was up.
As to the masks, humans had been around for decades at that point (I think). So anytime she would have seen one, they'd have had a mask on. I think they knew what they were for (Grace had one on when they tried to save her).
Another instance of the Na'vi recognizing them is when Tsu'tey goes down; before he does he smashes the mask of at least two people.
As to the masks, humans had been around for decades at that point (I think). So anytime she would have seen one, they'd have had a mask on. I think they knew what they were for (Grace had one on when they tried to save her).
Another instance of the Na'vi recognizing them is when Tsu'tey goes down; before he does he smashes the mask of at least two people.
ArachosiA 78 said:
For your second question Humans have been on the planet for 10+ years...the NA'Vi know they need masks to breath so that's an easy one to explain.
For the first question...1)She saw Quaritch attacking the trailer which is probably a pretty good indication of whats happening when Jake collapses. 2) She has seen Grace/Jake collapse before from being "turned off" in their link. She probably knew of their location or knew they were near by since they ran from the human base. I am sure Jake informed some of them where they were so they weren't attacked by NA'Vi patrolling or something.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
As far as my thoughts on Eywa are concerned, I had always considered the consciousness of Eywa to be the cumulative downloaded consciousness of all the Navi who uploaded their brains to Eywa before dying. (Isn't that what they said they do?)
I figured that in the beginning the planet-wide neural network developed without sentience, but gradually, as the Navi evolved into an intelligent species and started uploading their brains into the planet, the community consciousness known as Eywa was formed.
I guess this would also depend on whether or not non-Navi can interface with the planet like the Na'vi do, and if so, would the combined consciousness of non-sentient beings have been enough to form a sentient Eywa millions of years ago.
At any rate, if the Na'vi are slaves to Eywa, they are essentially slaves to themselves assuming that Eywa is made up of the combined consciousness of all Navi ancestors.
I figured that in the beginning the planet-wide neural network developed without sentience, but gradually, as the Navi evolved into an intelligent species and started uploading their brains into the planet, the community consciousness known as Eywa was formed.
I guess this would also depend on whether or not non-Navi can interface with the planet like the Na'vi do, and if so, would the combined consciousness of non-sentient beings have been enough to form a sentient Eywa millions of years ago.
At any rate, if the Na'vi are slaves to Eywa, they are essentially slaves to themselves assuming that Eywa is made up of the combined consciousness of all Navi ancestors.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Nah, I like the idea of a sentient planet better.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Yeah, the planet is sentient. Because the na'vi have been uploading their brains to it for thousands of years.Scullibundo said:
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Good article from Variety on the new process of editing for AVATAR. Really interesting stuff.
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&jump=news&articleid=VR1118013679&cs=1
http://www.variety.com/index.asp?layout=awardcentral&jump=news&articleid=VR1118013679&cs=1
Count Dookkake
Member
Neat article, Sculli.
Funny thing is how much the cineastes bitched and moaned when Lucas talked about this stuff back in 99. "Oh, it's violence against acting" type bullshit.
What a difference a decade makes!
Funny thing is how much the cineastes bitched and moaned when Lucas talked about this stuff back in 99. "Oh, it's violence against acting" type bullshit.
What a difference a decade makes!
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Count Dookkake said:
To be fair, a lot of the actor's performance was made up by a committee of animators in Lucas' films. There wasn't much that was natural about the process, which is very different to AVATAR.
Count Dookkake
Member
Scullibundo said:
To be fair, that's not what I 'm talking about.
I should have been more clear. Lucas talked about stitching together different takes into single shots, and different facial expressions from one take onto others, all involving flesh and blood actors, not in reference to the animated characters.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Yeah fair enough. Never heard Lucas talk about the same thing.
Count Dookkake said:To be fair, that's not what I 'm talking about.
I should have been more clear. Lucas talked about stitching together different takes into single shots, and different facial expressions from one take onto others, all involving flesh and blood actors, not in reference to the animated characters.
The complaints were based on Lucas taking the absolute worst takes and combining those together.
At least, I assume that is what he did given the quality of performances turned in.
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