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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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Despite the derivative story, you just have to marvel at the technical brilliance of the film. Every cut to the humans left me longing for more of the beautifully conceived Pandora and life like detail of the Navi.
I didn't expect to get as drawn into the film as I did, making the 150 mins fly by.
 
fortified_concept said:
Is this true? If yes then a big FUCK YOU to Fox for messing with the movie.

Studio corporate motherfuckers: ruining one movie at a time.
This isn't completely Fox's fault, not like it was with Kingdom of Heaven at least. IMAX movies have a limit to how long they can be.
 
fortified_concept said:
Is this true? If yes then a big FUCK YOU to Fox for messing with the movie.

Studio corporate motherfuckers: ruining one movie at a time.
it really does feel it's has had some content removed. not sure if that's a bad thing, i think a considerably longer movie could have been exhuasting. will be interesting to see what's restored on the bluray if that story is true! at last night's screening my eyes were already tired, but it seemed out of focus by a fraction and it really affected how fatigued i felt at the end.


i'm loving seeing how everyone's impressions differ on this movie.
 
Justinian said:
How was the story? Characters?
I pretty much agree with the critics. The story is predictable. However, like most Cameron films, it's presented so well that it doesn't matter. I did think that the start of the film was slow, maybe even a bit too slow. I also thought there were a few instances where scenes didn't flow as well into each other compared to the rest of the movie. It was worth it in the end though as the last half hour of the movie is fantastic. The characters are archetypes but their relationships did feel genuine. This was probably helped by the talented actors and the only character I thought was bad was Michelle Rodriguez's but that probably stems from my general dislike of her. Props to Sam Worthington and Zoe Saldana as I think they did the best job. Zoe probably should be nominated for best actor.

Other than the CG, the most impressive thing about the movie is the world. The whole ecology of the place is absolutely fascinating and James Cameron has succeeded in making the world seem alive and alien.
 
Well since Blu-Ray wont be constrained by the 3D Cameron will be free to make the movie as long as he want, provided he does do an extended cut
 
So for those who might know... and saw the movie... do you think smoking some weed / or making weed brownies is a good idea for this? That might sound like a stupid question, but is there any reason why being high for this would not be a good idea? Me and some friends might make brownies
 
Karma Kramer said:
So for those who might know... and saw the movie... do you think smoking some weed / or making weed brownies is a good idea for this? That might sound like a stupid question, but is there any reason why being high for this would not be a good idea? Me and some friends might make brownies

I saw My Bloody Valentine 3D after something like that. If you want to be able to keep up with the story it's probably not a good idea.....but it's fine for a horror movie where there is no story other than "Dumb teens get chopped the fuck up". Also, there's a 3D sex scene and I pity anyone that missed it :D
 
Karma Kramer said:
So for those who might know... and saw the movie... do you think smoking some weed / or making weed brownies is a good idea for this? That might sound like a stupid question, but is there any reason why being high for this would not be a good idea? Me and some friends might make brownies
don't see it stoned the first time, would be my advice :P
 
Karma Kramer said:
Too overwhelming?
i'd just want to absorb it all the first time.
i've been considering going again after getting comlpetely baked but i really should be saving my money...
 
Karma Kramer said:
So for those who might know... and saw the movie... do you think smoking some weed / or making weed brownies is a good idea for this? That might sound like a stupid question, but is there any reason why being high for this would not be a good idea? Me and some friends might make brownies

Take shrooms.
 
Krev said:
Absolutely.
Fortunately rumour says that the film was initially...20-30 minutes longer.
So I wonder if it's gonna be like Aliens where a lot of the character development bits were brushed aside on the "cutting room floor" (or in this case the rendering graveyard). I guess that might be something to look forward to for the home release.
 
It's a good film. Better than True Lies, The Abbys and Titanic. And James Cameron absolutely deserves a Best Director nomination for this staggering technical masterpiece. He never lied. Avatar has, in a way, truly redefined cinema.

However, as a tale, it never reaches those heights. Characterization is too caricature-ish; there are a number of fine moments of interaction scattered throughout, but I'm sorely suspicious that Cameron may have cut a bit too much for the theatrical release; nevertheless, the entire cast manages to do a lot with what they have - and supporting players like Stephen Lang, Signourey Weaver and Michelle Rodriguez definitely provide fantastic turns. The richest character in the piece is Pandora itself, though, and it is a magnificent achievement which is examined with requisite care. The Na'vi, or The People, were also key to the experience, and Zoe Saldana and others seen in this role did a fine job of keeping them believable, while still portraying them as the fay creatures they needed to be.

Still, Avatar moreover fails to adequately explore the complexities it introduces. Particularly, the question of whether the survival of the human race is worth such destruction.
The implications of Jake's act, in sending "the aliens back to their dying world", is never visited, and his surety of this action - and the consequences that surround it - never budges.

As for the action: It was well-shot and certainly enjoyable, although nothing on the level of Cameron's other two big sci-fi outings. (see: T2 and Aliens) It was altogether quite forgettable like many a blockbuster feature these days, actually, but still streets ahead of Bay and his ilk. In fact, I would maintain that District 9 remains both the best action and sci-fi film of 2009.

All in all, Avatar is a special - nay, phenomenal - achievement hampered by a familiar storyline moving from one telegraphed phase to the next. ***/****.
 
Scullibundo said:
You really just don't need to see it stoned. Its already got the wow factor there.
after seeing it twice, i'm ready for a stoned viewing.
already organised after reading this page :D
 
Karma Kramer said:
Alright, how re-watchable do you see this movie being for you guys?

Perhaps, once or twice more in theaters. Mainly because I'm still in awe of the film's visual orchestra - and that awe wonderfully begins from the very first few scenes. The CG doesn't register as it typically does. It never hits the uncanny valley; it feels and looks and seems real, and the 3D takes it to another level.
 
So has this lived up to my insanely high expectations? For the most part yes it certainly did (I can't stop thinking about it!), but I have to be completely honest and say that I did have some minor disappointments after walking out of the cinema.

First of all, yes the CGI was absolutely amazing, the 3D was also impressive but to a lesser extent than the CGI I thought (this was my first 3D movie). Pandora was stunning, the action scenes were supremely shot (the cinematography was just fantastic!), the acting/pacing were both solid, the soundtrack overall was good, but when it decided to go all out...wow! Two scenes that come to mind first was the part when Jake wasn’t
in his AVATAR and Neytiri was trying to wake him up as the tree of souls was being destroyed
, and when Quaritch was
leading the troops to destroy the massive home-tree
(I actually got goose-bumps at this moment), they were both really effective scenes thanks to the in-your-face music. By the way I thought the best part of the movie was probably when they
took down the home-tree
, it was emotionally very effective (I felt the Na’vi’s anguish/shock) and the visual effects were just off the chain! My eyes couldn’t believe it! So insanely epic! I just wish it went on longer. And the
last fight with Jake/Neytiri VS Quaritch was pure win!
Oh and also, I thought the script was actually good.

Now for some negatives. Whilst overall I liked the characters Cameron offered us, I was pretty disappointed with the way Jake and Neytiri interacted for the most part (this is coming from someone who absolutely loved, and believed the romance between Jack and Rose in Titanic was perfect) and how I just didn’t seem to care what happened to the characters, with the exception being Neytiri. Maybe I was just expecting too much, but at times I just wasn’t connecting with them. Also I felt absolutely nothing when
the supporting cast died
. For example when
Grace died
, same goes for when
Neytiri’s dad died
- although seeing Neytiri’s reaction to her
father’s death
was well done, but I still thought those scenes lacked that extra powerful emotional punch, which at the end of the day is my biggest complaint. I mean yeah it was acceptable, but I thought Cameron was gonna take it to the next level, but that didn’t always happen for me unfortunately. A bit more character development would have done wonders. And it needs to be said again that the story is ridiculously predictable and by the book, I was rolling my eyes at some points of the movie because of have extremely clichéd some point were. I didn’t think I would care but I actually did because the execution while for the most part was flawless, it did have its hiccups.

Conclusion: It was remarkable! I personally think some of the scenes will go down as some of the most awe-inspiring in cinematic history. Some missed opportunities can't bring this movie down when it does so much other things beautifully. :D


At this point: 9.5/10
 
Tim the Wiz said:
Still, Avatar moreover fails to adequately explore the complexities it introduces. Particularly, the question of whether the survival of the human race is worth such destruction.
The implications of Jake's act, in sending "the aliens back to their dying world", is never visited, and his surety of this action - and the consequences that surround it - never budges.
Cameron said in an interview that, despite studio pressure to provide explanation,
he wanted to leave the purpose of Unobtanium unsaid because that would just cloud the main point, which is that the displacement and murder of people to claim a resource is always wrong. Cameron's stance is that it does not matter if Unobtanium could save our world if we are to seize it through such morally abhorrent methods.

I think the action in the final battle is quite a bit better the action in District 9. I engaged with it emotionally better than D9's last stand, and Cameron's staging was brilliant. Really, the last quarter of the film is a masterclass.

Dead said:
Well since Blu-Ray wont be constrained by the 3D Cameron will be free to make the movie as long as he want, provided he does do an extended cut
Ah, but there will be a 3D Blu-Ray. :D
I think the concern was about the theatrical experience. Fox didn't want people having to suffer through discomfort to reach the end of the film. At home people can stop and start it as much as they want.

Their worries might have been for nothing. My eyes felt fine after 160 minutes.
 
Krev said:
Really, the last quarter of the film is a masterclass.

I was a little bit disappointed with the last quarter...maybe because I had seen most of it on the internet? Or too much hype?

It didn't feel overly grand to me. I mean I was expecting Return of the King type epic, but it sadly fell a little bit short of that.

Not saying that it was bad, it was actually awesome. I might change my mind on my second viewing on Sunday night though.
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
I was a little bit disappointed with the last quarter...maybe because I had seen most of it on the internet? Or too much hype?

It didn't feel overly grand to me. I mean I was expecting Return of the King type epic, but it sadly fell a little bit short of that.

Not saying that it was bad, it was actually awesome. I might change my mind on my second viewing on Sunday night though.

I'm lucky that I'd only seen the two trailers and a few more shots here and there.

The final battle isn't the massively scaled epic blitzkrieg it's been hyped to be, but as an emotionally and viscerally powerful action sequence it's unmatched this year.
 
Krev said:
The final battle isn't the massively scaled epic blitzkrieg it's been hyped to be, but as an emotionally and viscerally powerful action sequence it's unmatched this year.

Yep, I agree. I thought it needed a bit more of a build up and needed to last a little longer. But luckily the
last fight with Jake/Neytiri VS Quaritch
more than made up for it.

When Neytiri was
attacking Quaritch with the Thanator
it was really exciting. She was giving it her all and you could just see how pissed off she was. Really loved that part!
 
I saw it last night, and here are my impressions:

An excellent technical achievement, Avatar had great moments of brilliance. I love how Cameron combined Depth of Field (with 3D), rough camera cuts and shaky-cam to give the movie a very organic look. It took some time for my eyes to adjust to the 3D in the opening scenes, but after that it was great. Cameron still got it when it comes to capturing the small great moments
(Jake feeling the mud, playing around with the glowy plants)
and action - clearly shot/edited and every second visceral.

The story was, as we all pretty much expected, generic. Quite similar to Pocahontas/Princess Mononoke/Dances with the Wolves. However Avatar lacked the interesting characters, and we got cardboard supporting characters such as Quatrich, Selfridge, Dr. Augustine, Neytiri's potential mate, her parents and Michelle Rodriquez. One could argue that Cameron's aim was to make Pandora the main character of the movie - and he did - however I really wish the human/naav'i characters were worth rooting for. Worthington was fairly adequate as a protagonist and Neytiri was a nice female lead, but again Worthington played the typically cocky/heart of gold/ballsy protagonist
while Saldana played the strong/beautiful/leader female. Not all that memorable.

For me the movie seemed to capture the spirit of a Miyazaki film (especially Pandora), but lacked the kind of interesting characters which made something like Princess Mononoke had.

All in all, I need to watch the movie at least one more time. My intial reaction is that its very well shot (Cameron deserves a director nom) for making his dream a reality and showing THIS IS HOW THE FUCK YOU SHOULD SHOOT ACTION.
 
dmshaposv said:
I saw it last night, and here are my impressions:

An excellent technical achievement, Avatar had great moments of brilliance. I love how Cameron combined Depth of Field (with 3D), rough camera cuts and shaky-cam to give the movie a very organic look. It took some time for my eyes to adjust to the 3D in the opening scenes, but after that it was great. Cameron still got it when it comes to capturing the small great moments
(Jake feeling the mud, playing around with the glowy plants)
and action - clearly shot/edited and every second visceral.

The story was, as we all pretty much expected, generic. Quite similar to Pocahontas/Princess Mononoke/Dances with the Wolves. However Avatar lacked the interesting characters, and we got cardboard supporting characters such as Quatrich, Selfridge, Dr. Augustine, Neytiri's potential mate, her parents and Michelle Rodriquez. One could argue that Cameron's aim was to make Pandora the main character of the movie - and he did - however I really wish the human/naav'i characters were worth rooting for. Worthington was fairly adequate as a protagonist and Neytiri was a nice female lead, but again Worthington played the typically cocky/heart of gold/ballsy protagonist
while Saldana played the strong/beautiful/leader female. Not all that memorable.

For me the movie seemed to capture the spirit of a Miyazaki film (especially Pandora), but lacked the kind of interesting characters which made something like Princess Mononoke had.

All in all, I need to watch the movie at least one more time. My intial reaction positive reaction is that its very well shot (Cameron deserves a director nom) for making his dream a reality and showing THIS IS HOW THE FUCK YOU SHOULD SHOOT ACTION.

This and other impressions seem pretty in line with the character and story criticism reviewers have picked up on and are rolling with.

I'm just wondering are the characters and story disappointing because you are holding them to Cameron's previous efforts, or are they just ineffectual on the whole?
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
Yep, I agree. I thought it needed a bit more of a build up and needed to last a little longer. But luckily the
last fight with Jake/Neytiri VS Quaritch
more than made up for it.

When Neytiri was
attacking Quaritch with the Thanator
it was really exciting. She was giving it her all and you could just see how pissed off she was. Really loved that part!

Yeah, there's a real palpable sense of aggression and desperation to the final battle that makes you grip the edge of your seat, not only in the choreography and the emotions of the characters but in the editing too.

Really well done.
 
Tricky I Shadow said:
By the way I thought the best part of the movie was probably when they
took down the home-tree
, it was emotionally very effective (I felt the Na’vi’s anguish/shock) and the visual effects were just off the chain! My eyes couldn’t believe it! So insanely epic!

great review. I've left the bit I agree with most regarding the movie's killer sequence. I was overwhelmed by what I was looking at. I was moved. And the whole thing... was pretty savage.
 
OK I've had a nights sleep, and am back to give more detail concerning what I liked/did not like.
First of all I'd like to say that I've been reading other Gaffers impressions, and I'm very jealous :(
Everyone is brimming with excitement, most seem blown away by what they saw, and I really want to feel that way too. Going into the film I was ready to be wowed by Cameron, shown something that I would never forget, but even now I'm having trouble recalling anything that I think will leave an imprint on my mind for the foreseeable future.

Rather than go straight into the negatives I need to explain what I liked since my impressions have been extremely negative so far.

To start with, not enough praise can be given to the men and women that painstakingly produced the CGI for this movie. It is without a doubt the best computer imagery I have ever seen, leaps and bounds ahead of the pack. Prior to my screening I thought the Na'vi looked goofy and peculiar, and I was really worried that I would find it severely off putting during the movie, but their eyes/faces/body movement are so expressive, and so uncannily human, that you quickly forget that you're looking at a 10ft tall lanky humanoid wild cat with blue skin. Yet it's not just the Na'vi that look frighteningly realistic, absolutely everything on Pandora looks like it has been captured for some wildlife/nature show. The lush jungles, luminous plant life, and strange alien creatures all appear tangible.

Pandora is without a doubt the star of the show. It is maybe a back handed compliment to suggest that I would have been happier simply having a narrator guide us around the planet documenting the wildlife for the entire duration of the movie (fuck the conventional and tedious storyline - I really don't care). The fact that James Cameron alone designed this world is an outstanding achievement, and I was so impressed that I will probably purchase the 'Art of Avatar', or 'Field Guide to Pandora', at some point to read more about his though processes while creating his vision.

This was only the second time that I have seen a 3D picture, and funnily enough my first time was way back in 2003 when I saw James Cameron's 'Ghosts of the Abyss’ in IMAX. As a result I don't have much to offer by way of comparison, however I will say that other than the initial 10 or 15 minutes, and maybe the odd shot where something suddenly pops out on screen, I barely noticed the 3D. This is, in my opinion, a huge compliment because rather than try and induce a sense of awe with gimmicky tricks, the 3D is used to add subtle depth and perspective to every shot, and it truly adds to the immersion. I'm certain that I would not have been so impressed by the sights of Pandora and the authenticity of the Na'vi had I not seen the film in 3D. I will however mention that at the start of the film I found it rather jarring. Initially I thought it was my eyes adjusting, but I found that I had trouble with pretty much every scene that predominantly featured live actors in conventional human settings. While the action was taking place on Pandora, and focussed on the Na'vi, I was delighted with the 3D; however, when it switched back to capturing the humans I found it disconcerting (maybe this was Cameron's intention?)

Finally, Cameron deserves a huge amount of praise for his direction. Most of the actors give admirable performances (particularly Lang and Saldana), despite the unimaginative script and lack of characterisation. Once again Cameron proves that he is the king of action. All of the battle/action sequences are shot beautifully, with none of the hyperactive, quick-cut nonsense favoured by Bay. Unlike Snyder, Cameron makes subtle and appropriate use of slow motion as well, and overall the film is a visual treat. Cameron is still a master film maker, and if anyone is wondering whether he still posses skill as a director, the answer is a firm yes.

So why was I disappointed?
When I watch a movie I hope to be told an engaging and captivating story. I want to connect with the characters on screen and follow them on their journey. This did not happen for me during Avatar.

Funnily enough it was not ropey cgi that got in the way (I already said the Na'vi looked outstanding), and it was not shoddy acting either, I just didn't care at all for any of the characters on screen. The storyline and the characters are just so conventional, so banal, that I just couldn't truly connect with what I was seeing. I really did not care what happened to any of the protagonists. The storyline is so formulaic, and the characters so laughably predictable, that in many ways I actually felt like I'd seen the film several times before. I got the same feeling watching Avatar as I had watching a film where I had already read the entire script before hand, or read a substantial amount of spoilers; but other than a few spoiler free reviews, and the two trailers that were released, I had gone into the film completely fresh.

There are other minor criticisms as well, but none are anywhere near as substantial as the above. Yes the dialog is a little ropey, and I did expect this; however, outside of one or two scenes, and one line (that is unfortunately repeated several times), it is bearable. Horner also let me down tremendously with his highly forgettable score, although I'm not going to be too quick to condemn that since it is possible that it may grown on me over time.

The bottom line is that if Cameron had injected even half of the imagination and vision that he displayed in creating Pandora into the actual storyline and characters of the film, we would have been left with a true masterpiece, a film that I would have remembered forever. As it stands, the film just feels hollow. It's such a shame because the film excels so far in the other areas that I already mentioned, but for me storyline and character are by FAR the most important aspect of a film. They are so pivotal to my enjoyment that if they are lacking my entire experience is diminished, and in this sense the boring storyline and poor characterisation negatively impact the good that Cameron achieves with his film. I hate to draw the comparison with the Star Wars prequels, and I should stress that Avatar is far better than that, but if only Cameron had designed the worl and directed the film, but had somebody else write the goddamn script!

If I were to apply a numerival score it's be 3 stars (out if 5)
 
I remembered my only complaint after the preview was the stupid subtitles, they were right at the 'front' of the 3D space, and they changed it for the film, the subs are now not always in the same depth or stereo placement, it worked really well.
 
Ill be happy when Kramer sees the movie if only because it will bring to an end his seemingly endless string of questions :lol
 
Seeing it again tomorrow at LieMAX. True IMAX is booked out until 26th or so. :(

Basically, try not to go into this movie cynically - just as you wouldn't for Speed Racer. Because this film's characterisations are much like Racer's - the bad guy is just as much an obviously evil cutout etc etc.

This really is a film where if you surrender yourself to the ride, you will enjoy the fuck out of it. The plot is easily the weakest out of all of Cameron's films, yet the direction is amongst his best. There are images in this film that a scarred into my mind and I will always remember when thinking of this film. And the most prominent of them has nothing to do with Pandora.
 
NutJobJim said:
Pandora is without a doubt the star of the show. It is maybe a back handed compliment to suggest that I would have been happier simply having a narrator guide us around the planet documenting the wildlife for the entire duration of the movie (fuck the conventional and tedious storyline - I really don't care). The fact that James Cameron alone designed this world is an outstanding achievement, and I was so impressed that I will probably purchase the 'Art of Avatar', or 'Field Guide to Pandora', at some point to read more about his though processes while creating his vision.

I don't think he did. I was watching an interview with him a few days ago, I don't remember which one, and he said that he's a sketch artist, but that he had a team of artist/designers designing and it was really hard.
 
So I saw it, and it was okay for mindless blockbuster entertainment, dull and unoriginal story, aesthetically somewhere between Halo and Miyazaki, but fun to watch, especially in the second half. However, the one thing I don't get is why the film is supposed to be a "technological revelation" or whatever, because we've seen staggering CG environments before, the motion capture crap was only marginally better than in Zemeckis' recent stuff, and the 3D...well, I didn't even notice anymore after 15 minutes.

Yeah, definitely overhyped, but I suppose that was to be expected.
 
stuburns said:
So what is it? The burning box? For me it's all the night time Pandora, that shit was unbelievably pretty.

When Jake wakes up out of cryo and you've got all the medics free-floating in that huge interior chamber of the ship. In fact, the whole intro/journey to Pandora was an epic fucking intro.
 
Scullibundo said:
When Jake wakes up out of cryo and you've got all the medics free-floating in that huge interior chamber of the ship. In fact, the whole intro/journey to Pandora was an epic fucking intro.
Oh yeah, that stuff was very cool. Unlike with the RealD, this time it took me about ten minutes to get accustom to the 3D, so that point didn't seem as clean as the later parts.
 
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