Basically, try not to go into this movie cynically - just as you wouldn't for Speed Racer. Because this film's characterisations are much like Racer's - the bad guy is just as much an obviously evil cutout etc etc.
This really is a film where if you surrender yourself to the ride, you will enjoy the fuck out of it.
A film needs to work (as did 'The Princess Bride') to return me to giddy, guileless childhood; I can't, or resolutely won't, put myself there for its benefit. I see where you're coming from, but the 'switch off your critical sensibility' priming is the kind of shit Baz Luhrman would pull.
There are some truly spectacular moments in terms of the action and effects, but i felt, in the end, it couldn't quite overcome how derivative the story is. Everything played out exactly as i expected and i never found myself invested or engaged by it on an emotional level. The characters really left a lot to be desired.
Some of the dialogue had me cringing, though overall it was serviceable. One of Neytiri's first spoken lines got a major eyeroll out of me and there was audible laughing from the audience.
It's a solid film, but not really worthy of hyperbolic praise.
A film needs to work (as did 'The Princess Bride') to return me to giddy, guileless childhood; I can't, or resolutely won't, put myself there for its benefit. I see where you're coming from, but the 'switch off your critical sensibility' priming is the kind of shit Baz Luhrman would pull.
Not at all. There is a scene that jarred me completely and I hated. It didn't last long, but the fact is I could see people getting hung up on a scene like that and allowing that to paint the rest of the movie for them.
Everybody seems to be focusing on the generic plot arc. You have to understand that whilst it isn't strong, every other aspect of this film IS. It is firing on all cylinders and you can feel it. This doesn't feel like an empty movie. You do feel for the characters even. The rub comes as you realise you could feel so much MORE for them if things had played out more slowly, if you had more time with them.
whem Neytiri picks up Jake's body at the end. Neytiri seeing Jake's true form for the first time is a hugely significant moment and probably the emotional climax, and it's the contrast between Jake's frail human form and the powerful alien body of Neytiri that really grounds it. It's simple and beautiful, and the kind of subtle moment you don't expect from Cameron.
So I saw it, and it was okay for mindless blockbuster entertainment, dull and unoriginal story, aesthetically somewhere between Halo and Miyazaki, but fun to watch, especially in the second half. However, the one thing I don't get is why the film is supposed to be a "technological revelation" or whatever, because we've seen staggering CG environments before, the motion capture crap was only marginally better than in Zemeckis' recent stuff, and the 3D...well, I didn't even notice anymore after 15 minutes.
Yeah, definitely overhyped, but I suppose that was to be expected.
Nothing against you Munin. But it really irks me when people bring up Halo to compare to Cameron's designs. Considering Halo ships are ripped right out of Aliens. Not to mention their characters. Especially the Sarge.
A film needs to work (as did 'The Princess Bride') to return me to giddy, guileless childhood; I can't, or resolutely won't, put myself there for its benefit. I see where you're coming from, but the 'switch off your critical sensibility' priming is the kind of shit Baz Luhrman would pull.
I agree.
In fact I did try to 'surrender to the ride' but I just couldn't. I simply didn't care about any of the characters or story and the 'ride' lost a lot of it's emotional value.
Scullibundo said:
Not at all. There is a scene that jarred me completely and I hated. It didn't last long, but the fact is I could see people getting hung up on a scene like that and allowing that to paint the rest of the movie for them.
Everybody seems to be focusing on the generic plot arc. You have to understand that whilst it isn't strong, every other aspect of this film IS. It is firing on all cylinders and you can feel it. This doesn't feel like an empty movie. You do feel for the characters even. The rub comes as you realise you could feel so much MORE for them if things had played out more slowly, if you had more time with them.
There's the difference between us, I didn't care for any of the characters at all. Every single one of them bored me, their 'story' bored me.
For me it wasn't one scene at all, it was the entire banality of the story arc, everything seemed trivial. I really hoped that Cameron would do something at the end, just a very slight deviation from the norm, but the ending...so predictable, so empty.
It's a huge compliment to Cameron that I can criticise the film like this, yet still maintain that I enjoyed it on some level.
Such was the magnificence of Pandora and his direction. In my opinion this is easily his worst film though, maybe tied at bottom with Titanic.
So I saw it, and it was okay for mindless blockbuster entertainment, dull and unoriginal story, aesthetically somewhere between Halo and Miyazaki, but fun to watch, especially in the second half. However, the one thing I don't get is why the film is supposed to be a "technological revelation" or whatever, because we've seen staggering CG environments before, the motion capture crap was only marginally better than in Zemeckis' recent stuff, and the 3D...well, I didn't even notice anymore after 15 minutes.
Yeah, definitely overhyped, but I suppose that was to be expected.
Perhaps something with Trudy or Jake in his cripple form, but a definite one I can remember, in the Leona Lewis video for I See You, you actually see Neytiri applying the warpaint all over Jake, where as in the film he just showed up with it already on.
That reminds me, one of the really resonate parts I found was after Jake's first time out as a Na'vi, when he wakes up from the connector and you can just sense how deflated he is after that initial rush, having to return to his disability.
I wish Cameron chose someone other than Horner to do the music. The score definitely didn't help in rousing excitement. Chalk this up as another completely phoned in and lazy job by him. The reused and slightly altered themes was distracting. :/
Sound is fucking great - especially the big ships. In IMAX you really feel it, jesus.
I can't believe how much WETA's live-set design has been overlooked in people's impressions. The sets were fucking ace.
Spotless Mind said:
I wish Cameron chose someone other than Horner to do the music. Chalk this up as another completely phoned in and lazy job by him. The reused and slightly altered themes was distracting. :/
Horner was all over the fucking place. Maybe one or two really great tunes, the rest was just okay. I know I heard the triangle *ding ding* from Ripley's Escape in one of the scenes. But yes, I hope Cameron gets rid of Horner for whatever he does next. Pull Brad Fiedel out of his surfboard shop if you have to. :lol
It was exactly what I feared from Horner after that LA Times interview with him.
was how you really get an idea of how the area is laid out, a real sense of how the scene works spatially.
following on from Tricky's review, i thought emotionally, the moments that hit me hardest were when
Neytiri finds out about Jake's betrayal and her face falls, and she starts to cry;
and when
Michelle Rodriguez' character dies. the final missile hitting her ship really hit me in the gut. i didn't expect it, and it resonated hard. felt the same way on the second viewing too. she doesn't get much screen time, but i really became attached to her.
it's funny because like i said earlier, on the second viewing i really noticed the glaring simplicity of the story when i'd been swept up in the visuals in the first showing, and the characters placed none-too-subtly to move it along. i feel like i need some restored footage to get into the characters more. it feels cut down. but somehow, i still got roped in again.
re; the horner criticisms. the shot of
jake falling from the ship with the familiar nod to the score at the end of Aliens
got a smile out of me. yeah, probably lazy, but hey. it was a nice moment of recognition, and a nice reminder of how different the two films are.
it doesn't, and can't, match the enjoyment i get from the savage, exhausting intensity and bleak feel of Aliens, by far my favourite film, but i'd say Avatar will remain up there as one of my favourites. my fondest memory of a cinema going experience, that's for sure. there's a sense of excitement, discovery and joy to this film that i really didn't expect from Cameron at all, and reading some of these other impressions it makes me really glad that it was able to 'click' with me, as i know some people couldn't get past its faults. my partner said he'd never seen me look more excitable or happier than when i returned home last week from that first screening (which says more about how much of a sci fi / movie nerd i am than anything else) - i haven't had that reaction to something in a long time, and it'll stay with me for a while.
I wish Cameron chose someone other than Horner to do the music. The score definitely didn't help in rousing excitement. Chalk this up as another completely phoned in and lazy job by him. The reused and slightly altered themes was distracting. :/
Horner hasnt done anything great in over a decade now, so Im not surprised. Hes like Danny Elfman - a once great composer who has been content to rehash his older, superior work for years now.
Just saw this, to the haters
Really, I don't see how you can honestly dislike this movie knowing that the story was going to be cliched.
If you didn't know, then fair enough. But we all knew the story was going to be a bit cliched, but everything else was done so well. Likeable characters, brilliant pacing, gorgeous visuals, awesome fight scenes, and some really cool animals/landscapes/concepts throughout.
Yeah, the Horner score is fairly flat throughout. Though, the final act and the track "War" work really well together. It was one of the rare instances that I actually noticed the score.
COMPLETELY agree. Like Spielberg, Cameron really gets the importance of coherent spacial dynamics to action scenes. In an era where jumbled visual noise is the norm for action set-pieces, their work has become even more of a joy to watch.
when
Michelle Rodriguez' character dies. the final missile hitting her ship really hit me in the gut. i didn't expect it, and it resonated hard.
I was lucky (?) enough to be able to sneak peak this one. I'm torn on the hype. I liked the message but wasn't as impressed with the CGI as I was hoping to be. In terms of plot, I've seen much better. In terms of cool factor, I've not seen many that can hold a candle to it but neat-o effects and revolutionary artistry won't keep an audience coming back for more (think Star Wars Episodes I-III and Star Wars Espisodes IV-VI). It's the storyline that does that, isn't it?
And can someone explain why Cameron and his crew are sending mixed messages in terms of development time? I'm hearing and reading that it has been 15 years in the making, then somewhere else it's a dozen years, then somewhere else it's 5 years. Shit, man, which is it? The 15 years' message made me want to check it out. Maybe that's why they marketed it like that? More time in development=more money at the box office?
Michelle Rodriguez really impressed me, I've hated her in practically everything, I didn't think her performance was amazing or anything, but defiantly showed her playing a character quite different the one she always does. I expected from the trailer that she'd be the same as ever.
COMPLETELY agree. Like Spielberg, Cameron really gets the importance of coherent spacial dynamics to action scenes. In an era where jumbled visual noise is the norm for action set-pieces, their work has become even more of a joy to watch.
Again, completely agree. The
burning horse and Tsu'Tey falling from the cargo hold were similarly affecting
And can someone explain why Cameron and his crew are sending mixed messages in terms of development time? I'm hearing and reading that it has been 15 years in the making, then somewhere else it's a dozen years, then somewhere else it's 5 years. Shit, man, which is it? The 15 years' message made me want to check it out. Maybe that's why they marketed it like that? More time in development=more money at the box office?
I was lucky (?) enough to be able to sneak peak this one. I'm torn on the hype. I liked the message but wasn't as impressed with the CGI as I was hoping to be. In terms of plot, I've seen much better. In terms of cool factor, I've not seen many that can hold a candle to it but neat-o effects and revolutionary artistry won't keep an audience coming back for more (think Star Wars Episodes I-III and Star Wars Espisodes IV-VI). It's the storyline that does that, isn't it?
And can someone explain why Cameron and his crew are sending mixed messages in terms of development time? I'm hearing and reading that it has been 15 years in the making, then somewhere else it's a dozen years, then somewhere else it's 5 years. Shit, man, which is it? The 15 years' message made me want to check it out. Maybe that's why they marketed it like that? More time in development=more money at the box office?
Its been 5 years in the making (including the creation of the camera system and Volume rigs). Press are retarded. Cameron wrote the script almost 14 years ago, so they say '15 years in the making'. Absolute bullshit.
When pre-production, prinicipal photography, and post-production lasts several years, that is a long shoot. Even the biggest blockbusters usually get through the whole process in under 2 years. 5 (or 3.5, if you take away 1.5 years for R&D) years is very long.
I was prepared for it to be clichéd. It's just that no amount of dazzling effects could draw attention away from a story that didn't go in ANY surprising directions. It was clichéd to a fault. There was a nice sense of discovery to begin with and Pandora was wonderfully realized, but i couldn't really be taken with it, because the characters weren't developed enough and the villains were laughably one dimensional.
NutJobJim nailed it in saying that it's a testament to Cameron's skill as a director, that i still thought the movie was very good. I really enjoyed it a lot, but i'm not giddy with excitement over it... and i really wanted to be!
so it sounds like a lot of gaffers were disappointed in this thread. I guess I need to try and readjust my hype meter again. Maybe the problem was that you were expecting too much?
so it sounds like a lot of gaffers were disappointed in this thread. I guess I need to try and readjust my hype meter again. Maybe the problem was that you were expecting too much?
Hype kills, man. I dont care how good a movie ends up being, if you obsessively follow it for years before its release, the final product is always a let down.
This is what I desperately miss about the pre-internet days. You would go see a movie, and that would be it. You would either hate it or be blown away. Nowadays, there are spoilers, script leaks, screeners, set reports, far too many fucking trailers and commercials, etc. I often feel like Ive seen a movie before I actually do. Even worse, I often feel like I know how good/bad the movie should be before I see it. That shit is fucked up.
