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[MisterAnderson]

Well that's a different thing. As a character, yeah, she was believable and I could feel empathy for her. But as far as how she looked, she never blended at all with the real-life parts that were filmed. None of the CGI did.

That's what makes good CGI good: if it blends with the FMV. If it doesn't seem like it could believably exist within the real world of the FMV, then it's failed to some extent.

Well I don't know what to tell you then, because the CGI compositing in Avatar was top notch and in my opinion made every other movie look bad. If you want to see bad compositing see the Star Wars prequels, or many of the skull island scenes in King Kong (King Kong himself looked incredible IMO, but many live action elements looked so terribly blended in with the CG like 80% of the time).

 

[NekoFever]

One part I thought that was half assed:

Spoiler

Despite it being an almost 3 hour movie I felt Cameron could have too 5 minutes to show how Jake's tussle with the big bird to unite the clans. I mean it just felt cheap how it faded to black like that. It was a pivotal and important of the movie. 5 minutes could have done it. Showed his struggle to get it under control since it was such a coveted and centerpiece ritual.

5 minutes is all it could have took. Other than that, glorious flick. There were many times I felt conflicted on wanting to do the blue chick in the pooper. She just oozed sexiness to me.

I actually thought that was pretty well done. It would have been very similar to the other

Spoiler

bonding

scene, and leaving what he did and how he did it to the imagination was cool. Plus the voiceover there was great.

 

[border]

Neytiri has a great ass.

.......

 

[Danthrax]

Neytiri has a great ass.

:lol This has nothing to do with the rest of your post :lol

Anyway, I know some of those scenes looked really cool, but by and large it just did not look realistic to me at all. I'm sorry.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Well ok maybe in terms of believability it's an opinion (a pretty stupid one if you thought it wasn't believable), but not in terms of how good the CGI is.

If the na'vi were so believable then there wouldn't be such a large "whoa! blue people! probably do no want" movement.

I'm talking strictly technically and not in terms of art-style/character designs, which is certainly up for debate. I think we're not discussing the same thing here.

 

[nib95]

Well that's a different thing. As a character, yeah, she was believable and I could feel empathy for her. But as far as how she looked, she never blended at all with the real-life parts that were filmed. None of the CGI did.

That's what makes good CGI good: if it blends with the FMV. If it doesn't seem like it could believably exist within the real world of the FMV, then it's failed to some extent.

Again, I completely disagree. I thought there were only a handful of scenes where the Na'vi didn't look completely realistic and believable. But otherwise it was at most times, near photo realistic imo. Obviously taking in to consideration the fact that they are 10 foot high blue deer people. Which is always going to look slightly unusual because we just aren't used to seeing such things.

Just an amazing character. I think the only reason her performance is so convincing is because of the spectacular CGI. At times I was speechless.

 

[Danthrax]

Well I don't know what to tell you then, because the CGI compositing in Avatar was top notch and in my opinion made every other movie look bad. If you want to see bad compositing see the Star Wars prequels, or many of the skull island scenes in King Kong (King Kong himself looked incredible IMO, but many live action elements looked so terribly blended in with the CG like 80% of the time).

oh don't get me started on the Star Wars prequels. That CGI was horrendous, which is an opinion I've maintained since 1999.

 

[gerg]

The hell? I think you're getting character designs and CGI mixed up......because it's a FACT that the CGI was incredible and ridiculously believable.

The problem is that the believability of the GCI will always be interdependent on the believability of the character design. I don't think you can really separate one from the other.

Bear in mind that I'm holding a rather uninformed opinion here, but my limited impression of the Na'vi has always been that they simply look too... "perfect", so to speak. They look too cute, and for all the talk of Cameron wanting to design characters that couldn't be portrayed by actors and prosthetics, they still end up looking like normal people but different. And, as a result, I think there might be an element of the uncanny valley here - to me, the Na'vi have always seemed like advanced Barbie dolls more than anything else.

Of course, this may very well change if and when I see the film, but I'm sceptical that doing so won't just make me think that the Na'vi are really well animated Barbie dolls.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Well that's a different thing. As a character, yeah, she was believable and I could feel empathy for her. But as far as how she looked, she never blended at all with the real-life parts that were filmed. None of the CGI did.

That's what makes good CGI good: if it blends with the FMV. If it doesn't seem like it could believably exist within the real world of the FMV, then it's failed to some extent.

what real life parts? weren't all the surroundings in the navi scenes CGI?

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Don't be sorry Danthrax, all discussion is good. I just can't see what you see. It was completely photo-realistic to me. In fact, the ONLY thing that stuck out to me as not being photo-real was

Spoiler

the dirt between Jake's feet when he first plugs in and runs outside.

 

[ymmv]

I can't get over Unobtainium.

Is that some fucking joke in the script from 2005 that somehow never got changed for the final shooting draft? :lol :lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unobtainium

"Aerospace and electronics

Engineers have long (since at least the 1950s[2]) used the term unobtainium when referring to unusual or costly materials, or when theoretically considering a material perfect for their needs in all respects save that it doesn't exist. By the 1990s, the term was widely used, including in formal engineering papers such as Towards unobtainium [new composite materials for space applications]. [3]

The word unobtainium may well have been coined within the aerospace industry to refer to materials capable of withstanding the extreme temperatures expected in reentry. Aerospace engineers are frequently tempted to design aircraft which require parts with strength or resilience beyond that of currently available materials.

Unobtainium is also used for materials that are practical and really exist, but are difficult to get. For example, during the development and service period of the SR-71 Blackbird spy plane, engineers working for Lockheed Corporation at the Skunk Works used the term unobtainium as a dysphemism for titanium. This was not because of the radical decision to use the untried new material, but because at the time the Soviets were cornering the market in this material and were careful not to allow the American military to get hold of it.[4] Since the advent of the FFC Cambridge process in 1996, titanium is more readily obtained.[5]

Similarly, in maintaining old equipment (electronic and other) unobtainium is often used to refer to replacement parts that are no longer made (e.g. many parts for reel-to-reel audio recorders used to play back archive tapes, as for digitization). Uncommon, or rare, vacuum tubes are often said to be made of "unobtainium" when they cost more than the equipment they are fitted to (especially true of certain tubes, such as the 1L6, used exclusively in American battery powered shortwave radios)."

 

[mrklaw]

what real life parts? weren't all the surroundings in the navi scenes CGI?

thats what I thought. It was a little like the matrix. There were 'human' bits and 'navi' bits. There were a few places in the final act where there was a combination, but only a couple where its more than a fleeting moment.

I just realised - when I was watching one of the group 'hand waving' scenes, I thought to myself "I wonder how long it took to get all those people done in that makeup". Then I realised it was all CG I guess its done a good job if you forget

 

[Clevinger]

I still think it's the Navi's skin that puts some people off and they mistakenly think it's not photo-realistic. It's what, scaley? But it's smooth and shiny and almost looks like it's always wet.

In all the shots of the girl I've seen, I think she looks best, the most real, when she has that war paint covering that skin.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

thats what I thought. It was a little like the matrix. There were 'human' bits and 'navi' bits. There were a few places in the final act where there was a combination, but only a couple where its more than a fleeting moment.

I just realised - when I was watching one of the group 'hand waving' scenes, I thought to myself "I wonder how long it took to get all those people done in that makeup". Then I realised it was all CG I guess its done a good job if you forget

yeah - none of the backgrounds/surroundings in scenes with Neytiri in them were in any way real. were they? i don't know how she can be badly composited into backgrounds when the whole lot is CG and she's interacitng with it :\

 

[MisterAnderson]

yeah - none of the backgrounds/surroundings in scenes with Neytiri in them were in any way real. were they? i don't know how she can be badly composited into backgrounds when the whole lot is CG and she's interacitng with it :\

Pandora is fully CGI. The only live action sets are interior's of human camps/the labs/etc.

 

[nib95]

Pandora is fully CGI. The only live action sets are interior's of human camps/the labs/etc.

Well, that kind of just kills his argument then lol. The Na'vi would have been composited with the background CG in correlation, with all light sources etc working in tandem. So once again, I think the only reason he found them to be not so believable was more a question of adjusting to their character design than actual quality of CGI.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I also loved the

Spoiler

despair that comes through Neytiri's mother when the Hometree goes down.

By the way, I just thought about what it would be like, and this movie would definitely have been 10x better with some Bill Paxton in it.

 

[MisterAnderson]

Well, that kind of just kills his argument then lol. The Na'vi would have been composited with the background CG in correlation, with all light sources etc working in tandem. So once again, I think the only reason he found them to be not so believable was more a question of adjusting to their character design than actual quality of CGI.

I agree, and in terms of compositing I assumed he was saying that the live action characters (humans) within Pandora CGI scenes didn't look right which doesn't make sense since his argument is that the Na'vi CGI doesn't look real due to bad compositing. I'm just tired. But yeah, I don't understand how anyone can watch that movie and think the CGI isn't mind blowingly realistic, but what are you gonna do.

By the way, I just thought about what it would be like, and this movie would definitely have been 10x better with some Bill Paxton in it.

A younger Bill Paxton would have been great

Spoiler

as that one trigger happy marine who in the end gets trampled by the hammerhead charging things

.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Pandora is fully CGI. The only live action sets are interior's of human camps/the labs/etc.

Yeah, I think people need to try and keep that in mind before saying that the CGI wasn’t good.

And honestly...I can't believe we're even discussing if the CGI was good or not, I mean really?

I also loved the

Spoiler

despair that comes through Neytiri's mother when the Hometree goes down.

YES! YES! YES! Loved that part! Probably the most emotional scene in the whole movie for me.....

 

[Truant]

Yeah, I think people need to try and keep that in mind before saying that the CGI wasn’t good.

And honestly...I can't believe we're even discussing if the CGI was good or not, I mean really?

 

[jax (old)]

some of you guys are crazy. The CG in avatar is flawless.

 

[Clevinger]

A younger Bill Paxton would have been great

Spoiler

as that one trigger happy marine who in the end gets trampled by the hammerhead charging things

.

Just CGI him in.

:lol

 

[MisterAnderson]

And honestly...I can't believe we're even discussing if the CGI was good or not, I mean really?

It boggles the mind.

 

[JimiNutz]

I also loved the

Spoiler

despair that comes through Neytiri's mother when the Hometree goes down.

By the way, I just thought about what it would be like, and this movie would definitely have been 10x better with some Bill Paxton in it.

Yeah that was one of the only scenes that resonated with me on an emotional level.

Spoiler

When she was cutting down Jake and she just looks absolutely dumbstruck with grief

I agree about Paxton too!
Who do you think he could have played? Or do you think he should have had his own role?

 

[gerg]

It boggles the mind.

I think it depends on what people mean by saying that the CGI was good. If they mean that the CGI rendered things well (as in, they refer to an effect such as lighting), then I can agree; if they mean that what was rendered (as in, the designs of the characters and so on) was fundamentally "good" and realistic, then I can see room for debate.

In any case, I'm reaching the limits of what I can discuss honestly, so I'll stop soon.

Edit: There's also the fact that I'm generally unimpressed my CGI in general, so there's probably a limit to what even the best CGI will do for me.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Yeah that was one of the only scenes that resonated with me on an emotional level.

Spoiler

When she was cutting down Jake and she just looks absolutely dumbstruck with grief

I agree about Paxton too!
Who do you think he could have played? Or do you think he should have had his own role?

He should have played a Na'vi version of Hudson. Why is it always the marines that bug out? I want to see one of the natives ask to bug out and call it even upon seeing the RDA's massive gunships. :lol

 

[Solo]

T-minus 11 hours

 

[sevenchaos]

Just got home. Movie was beautiful.

I think the biggest hurdle Avatar will have to overcome is the public's level of comfort in accepting a race of humanoid aliens that more often than not look as real as you and me. No sooner do the credits end and some dweeb jumps up and starts shouting about furrys. I hate America. Land of the idiots.

 

[JimiNutz]

He should have played a Na'vi version of Hudson. Why is it always the marines that bug out? I want to see one of the natives ask to bug out and call it even upon seeing the RDA's massive gunships. :lol

That would have been awesome! :lol
Cameron should have definitely given him a part. I'm sure I read in Empire that Jim sent Bill scripts for Avatar and Battle Angel, and asked him which one he preferred, and Bill convinced Jim that he should do Avatar first.

Maybe he can turn up in Avatar 2.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Oh snap...off topic, but I just realized I’m no longer a Junior Member lol.

GAF have accepted me just like the Na’vi accepted Jake. I am home.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Oh snap...off topic, but I just realized I’m no longer a Junior Member lol.

GAF have accepted me just like the Na’vi accepted Jake. I am home.

And you wonder why no chick will let you stick your cock in her.

 

[Karma Kramer]

15 hours

 

[Memphis Reigns]

Just returned from a midnight showing in IMAX 3D. I loved it. I am going to wake up and see it first thing again tomorrow in RealD. I noticed at times I was so focused on the awesome visuals I missed a few important lines. I definitely found myself saying "wow" out loud several times. The finale was so intense and well done but it went fast. Definitely didn't feel like 30 minutes.

One of my favorite things about this movie is the

Spoiler

size difference between the Na'vi and the humans. Their immense size makes you remember that these are still aliens even with all the human like attributes. For instance I loved the scene when Neytiri goes inside of the human outpost and puts the mask on human Jake. She was so much larger than him and cradled him like a baby.

Very moving for me. Also when Neytiri's brother

Spoiler

lands on the gun-ship and beats the shit out of the soldiers.

It was almost scary to me!

Can't wait to see it again.

 

[Truant]

Seeing it in exactly nine hours.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I think I might see it a third time before the weekend is out. Maybe I'll try wait a week. You definitely get withdrawrals from this film, wanting to return to Pandora.

 

[Particle Physicist]

is the 3D in Real3D supposed to be better than IMAX3D?

my theater has both set ups.

 

[nib95]

I think I might see it a third time before the weekend is out. Maybe I'll try wait a week. You definitely get withdrawrals from this film, wanting to return to Pandora.

Dude, I'm having MAJOR withdrawals lol. Watched it last night and I'm actually itching to see it again today, despite making plans to see it at the Bristol IMAX tomorrow lol.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

I think I might see it a third time before the weekend is out. Maybe I'll try wait a week. You definitely get withdrawrals from this film, wanting to return to Pandora.

i'm waiting til boxing day then i'll give it a rest for a while. i don't wanna burn out on it

 

[ymmv]

I think I might see it a third time before the weekend is out. Maybe I'll try wait a week. You definitely get withdrawrals from this film, wanting to return to Pandora.

You're not the only one. I haven't been so impressed by a movie for a long, long time. I feel like a kid again.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Got out from the IMAX 3D show a couple hours ago.

Fucking amazing.

I need to see it again.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

is the 3D in Real3D supposed to be better than IMAX3D?

my theater has both set ups.

Opinions seem to be varying. I've experienced all formats a fair few times and to me it goes

True IMAX > IMAX Digital (LieMAX) > Real D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dolby 3D

 

[mrklaw]

I don't want to start getting into plotholes or nitpicking, as its a relatively generic story and doesn't rely on it being coherent to succeed. But I'm going to anyway.

First, they mention that the Navi tribes' village is right over the largest unobtanium deposit for 200km around. You've just travelled millions of miles in spaceships to land on Pandora - is it really going to kill you to move 200km to find another big deposit?

Secondly, right at the end

Spoiler

they send the humans packing and all is nice and peaceful again

. Sorry, but

Spoiler

if unobtanium is so precious, the humans will just come back with serious firepower. Maybe nuke the place from orbit

Its all classic Cowboys and Indians.

Spoiler

Yes, the Indians are noble people and live in harmony blah blah, but they still get fucked over in the end.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I don't want to start getting into plotholes or nitpicking, as its a relatively generic story and doesn't rely on it being coherent to succeed. But I'm going to anyway.

First, they mention that the Navi tribes' village is right over the largest unobtanium deposit for 200km around. You've just travelled millions of miles in spaceships to land on Pandora - is it really going to kill you to move 200km to find another big deposit?

Secondly, right at the end

Spoiler

they send the humans packing and all is nice and peaceful again

. Sorry, but

Spoiler

if unobtanium is so precious, the humans will just come back with serious firepower. Maybe nuke the place from orbit

Its all classic Cowboys and Indians.

Spoiler

Yes, the Indians are noble people and live in harmony blah blah, but they still get fucked over in the end.

Why would somebody nuke a site they're trying to extract minerals from?

 

[StuBurns]

Totally Rad boys really love the film. Surprising.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Totally Rad boys really love the film. Surprising.

I think their review captured a lot of how impressive the film was.

 

[StuBurns]

I think their review captured a lot of how impressive the film was.

Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything they said, just didn't expect to.

 

[ArachosiA 78]

So...has anyone see this on drugs yet?

 

[Kimosabae]

So...has anyone see this on drugs yet?

No, tell us about it.

 

[Foxix Von]

So I just got back from seeing this... aaand I'm not really sure what to make of it.

As a film I thought it was alright, but for some reason or another none of the characters actually grabbed me and I consistently felt like a passive observer throughout the film. I found Pandora extremely engrossing, more so than any other movie world to the point that when we all left the theater our only thought was, "Shit, real life sucks". And yet at the same time I never really felt engaged with any of the characters, but this had less to do with the CG which was pretty much flawless and more to do with jake as a character I suppose.

But in the end it's hard for me to really look at it like a traditional movie, it's more of an experience. Like being in a plane for the first time, or riding a roller coaster. So I'll definitely be seeing this again, because it was an extremely fun and effing incredible experience.

I'm just not sure how much I actually "like" it, if that makes any sense. Which it probably doesn't as it's currently almost 4 in the morning for me and I doubt I'm thinking clearly.

 

[legend166]

You heartless bastard lol.

Well that's the thing. Because they never tell the audience why the humans want the unobtanium, I just filled in the gaps in my head. I was all "damn we need to crap to survive, let's kick some alien ass!"

That's a hurdle I don't think the film ever managed to jump - making the audience side with the Na'vi over the humans. Sure, we saw the humans do a ton of bad stuff, but the default position of people going into the cinema is going to be "humans = good, aliens = bad".

Funnily enough, one of my complaints of the film was that the humans were portrayed as cartoon villians. Yet at the same time, I don't think they were evil enough. Cameron missed a trick here. He could have made it so the unobtanium was a material used in the construction of luxury mansions or something. Show that human excess has gone so far we're willing to destroy another planet just to build some McMansions or something stupid.

And I would have like to see some further depth to the whole juxtaposition of Jake the cripple as a human and Jake the fully functional Na'vi. Yeah, it was there, but they never really delved into it.

I dunno, I feel that someone in that universe and plot frame that Cameron created, there's a really great story to tell. But he got distracted by the shiny things and didn't flesh out the characters and plot to their potential, leaving the film as something of an empty shell.

Just my thoughts, though.