SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I'm telling you, watching this movie's second weekend B.O will be more interesting than its first weekend.
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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
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... There was some stuff to like and a whole lot to hate. Basically, the script was a complete mess but the action was fun.
I hated everything to do with the
It cracks me up how Cameron and his spent all this time supposedly creating an ecosystem that makes sense, but then there's this nonsense where every creature has a USB port that allows them to be taken advantage of by the Na'vi. Yup, I believe in a planet that somehow evolves like that.
I still have no idea why the Na'vi let Jake hang around and learn EVERYTHING about them. Before going into the movie I was hoping for some good reasoning behind this, but it was even dumber than I expected.
These people kind of deserve to be exterminated.
It seems like such a stretch for RDA to fund the whole avatar program under some vague half-assed hope of being able to convince the Na'vi to leave the Home Tree. A military conclusion seemed totally inevitable from the very start and the whole 3 month infiltration yielded extremely little useful information that shouldn't have been common sense.
I still don't buy Jake's gradual change of heart since it's preposterous to me that he would have felt any differently in the beginning. It's not like he ever came off as a heartless jarhead, so it was unbelievable that he would ever be fine with infiltrating the Na'vi and reporting their weaknesses to Quaritch and Selfridge in the first place, and that was even before Quaritch mentioned possibly getting his legs back.
Jake was a goddamn one man army and made most of the other Na'vi look weak and dumb, especially during the final battle. It seemed way too easy for him to become the biggest badass on the planet over people with years of experience both with the world and with Na'vi bodies.
The score sounded like outtakes from The Lion King.
I hated these Na'vi warriors as overly emotional bitches that are constantly dropping to their knees and crying to the heavens. I can't relate to that shit in movies or in real life. The growling was lame as well.
I can't get over the fact that in 150 years people are making
references. Yikes. Similarly, I strongly disliked the goofy use of Bush era war terminology. It was just so blatant and ridiculous.
But when the plot was thrown out the window the movie managed to deliver some cool action sequences. The scenery was beautiful, for what that's worth.
--
Geez, I was next to the most retarded woman. She kept literally reaching out and trying to grab the 3D stuff. She must have done it a dozen times throughout the film. Plus, she kept getting scared by the 3D, like jump-scare style. She jumped a good 2-3 dozen times. So fucking annoying.
I remain skeptical that 3D will ever not be distracting. It was kinda nifty in shots with limited movement, but anything quick and it just increased disorientation and it's very distracting when stuff appears or disappears on the edge of the screen.
I hated everything to do with the
Mother Gaia bullshit.
I still have no idea why the Na'vi let Jake hang around and learn EVERYTHING about them. Before going into the movie I was hoping for some good reasoning behind this, but it was even dumber than I expected.
Ney'tiri says there was a sign and without even revealing what that sign was, her mother welcomes him in for 3 months and orders him to be taught everything. Plus, the sign itself was silly anyway.
It seems like such a stretch for RDA to fund the whole avatar program under some vague half-assed hope of being able to convince the Na'vi to leave the Home Tree. A military conclusion seemed totally inevitable from the very start and the whole 3 month infiltration yielded extremely little useful information that shouldn't have been common sense.
I still don't buy Jake's gradual change of heart since it's preposterous to me that he would have felt any differently in the beginning. It's not like he ever came off as a heartless jarhead, so it was unbelievable that he would ever be fine with infiltrating the Na'vi and reporting their weaknesses to Quaritch and Selfridge in the first place, and that was even before Quaritch mentioned possibly getting his legs back.
It bugged the fuck out of me that during the final battle the Na'vi didn't shoot the explosives in the ship's hangar, instead they kept pointlessly shooting the individuals. Similarly, I think Chacon's moment in the final battle was pretty poorly thought out. Sort of a wasted strategic opportunity, and the battle paint was laughable, if not also a disadvantage.
Jake was a goddamn one man army and made most of the other Na'vi look weak and dumb, especially during the final battle. It seemed way too easy for him to become the biggest badass on the planet over people with years of experience both with the world and with Na'vi bodies.
The score sounded like outtakes from The Lion King.
I hated these Na'vi warriors as overly emotional bitches that are constantly dropping to their knees and crying to the heavens. I can't relate to that shit in movies or in real life. The growling was lame as well.
I can't get over the fact that in 150 years people are making
Wizard of Oz, Ranger Rick, etc.
But when the plot was thrown out the window the movie managed to deliver some cool action sequences. The scenery was beautiful, for what that's worth.
--
Geez, I was next to the most retarded woman. She kept literally reaching out and trying to grab the 3D stuff. She must have done it a dozen times throughout the film. Plus, she kept getting scared by the 3D, like jump-scare style. She jumped a good 2-3 dozen times. So fucking annoying.
I remain skeptical that 3D will ever not be distracting. It was kinda nifty in shots with limited movement, but anything quick and it just increased disorientation and it's very distracting when stuff appears or disappears on the edge of the screen.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
DY_nasty said:
Firstly,
They showed all throughout the film that he hated Jake for it, until Jake proved himself
Secondly
They do show what happens to a pilot that dies whilst attached to the Avatar. Norm gets shot in the jungle and his Avatar self dies whilst he wakes up clutching his chest where he was shot. He lived. The reverse is shown when Jake starts dying from the toxic air and is disconnected from his Avatar. If the human part dies, the Avatar dies as well because his human consciousness it being relayed - which is why when he's woken up by Quaritch his Avatar falls unconscious.
Darth Sonik
we need more FPS games
This was my first time going to see a movie in the new style 3D, and I could not have picked a better one.
While the story is nothing particularly new , everything else is. Nothing you have seen before, compares to the visual feast set before you in this film. The 3D effects are handled with such style & panache that they truly feel like the only way to experience this story. They never feel cheesy, even on the few occasions where they are not exactly subtle or organic. The "Smurfs" while not working for me in the trailers, truly shine in the full 3D release. After a brief period of time with them, you will wish (almost) every human on Pandora a painful death.
The underlying themes are not very underlying, but they should work well enough unless you already are "The Man". The length will probably be an issue for some & may discourage repeated viewing, but I for one did not wish the ride to end.
As a film its 3/5, as a 3D landmark in movies its 5/5.
This is a MUST SEE IN 3D, not so much in 2D.
While the story is nothing particularly new , everything else is. Nothing you have seen before, compares to the visual feast set before you in this film. The 3D effects are handled with such style & panache that they truly feel like the only way to experience this story. They never feel cheesy, even on the few occasions where they are not exactly subtle or organic. The "Smurfs" while not working for me in the trailers, truly shine in the full 3D release. After a brief period of time with them, you will wish (almost) every human on Pandora a painful death.
The underlying themes are not very underlying, but they should work well enough unless you already are "The Man". The length will probably be an issue for some & may discourage repeated viewing, but I for one did not wish the ride to end.
As a film its 3/5, as a 3D landmark in movies its 5/5.
This is a MUST SEE IN 3D, not so much in 2D.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I had no problem with any aspect of the plot, really. The dialogue was a little corny at times, but the plot itself seemed fine to me. I don't feel like there are any loose threads, and I believed pretty much everything that happened in it.
Count Dookkake
Member
DY_nasty said:
We don't know what further surprises the planet has in store.
Also, we have yet to see humanity's "Death Star" or "Emperor."
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
So where would you rate it against the rest of the year's blockbusters?Dan said:
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Solo said:
:lol
Glad to hear you liked it.
More impressions!
How the hell did JakeScullibundo said:
prove himself? He was clumsy as fuck, couldn't run in a straight line even after the 3 months of training and if you're referring to him capturing the legendary pokemon - Cameron didn't even show that, so for all we know he could've just tazed the damn thing then drugged it up.
And second,
It certainly didn't look like Norm getting was fatal. He took one in the shoulder and woke up grabbing his shoulder. The issue isn't addressed
Also, I'd still like Cameron to explain why the Na'vi never decided to pick up and use a gun. They seem to work pretty well...
One more thing,
Michelle Rodriguez's death was stupid.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Solo said:
Totally. Seriously, this movie is utterly amazing. Cameron has not lost a step as a director. If anything, his work doing documentaries and stuff really helped him to get a better idea for scale and wonder. Bring on 2 and 3!
Dabookerman
Member
While I wouldn't call it my favourite movie ever. The experience of just sitting at the Imax and just being absorbed into the absolutely stunning planet was just mesmerizing. I am a sucker for very fantastical elements in plants and stuff. It reminded me a lot about some of the areas in WoW. Some seriously beautiful set pieces. This surely has to win an Oscar for best Art Direction, Cinematography and possibly Direction.Scullibundo said:
I was perfectly fine with the plot. Yes, it's been done, but I personally thought it was well executed. The comparisons with night elves is quite obvious as well, but then I like the WoW lore. So I suppose it was very easy for me to enjoy the movie immensely.
Also.. if there was ever to be an Evangelion movie, Give it to Cameron. Seriously.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Wouldn't be mental enough.Dabookerman said:
Dabookerman
Member
Solo said:
Absolutely Fucking Amazing. Seriously man, Glad you liked it!
Also.. could someone be so kind and link me to all the featurettes and making of stuff please. Really interested to see it
Count Dookkake said:
Unless they get some bugs from Starship Troopers that can take a ship out from orbit, develop some armor piercing arrows, and build a better tree house, they are fucked.
I don't even see how its debatable. The humans are coming back, and they're coming back pissed.
I don't even see how its debatable. The humans are coming back, and they're coming back pissed.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Dabookerman said:
Fixed.
Dabookerman
Member
XiaNaphryz said:
Quarritch Mecha whipping out his little knife was just awesome. He was such a badass and a really fun villain.
Expendable.
Member
Dabookerman said:Absolutely Fucking Amazing. Seriously man, Glad you liked it!
Also.. could someone be so kind and link me to all the featurettes and making of stuff please. Really interested to see it
I posted literally every single Avatar-related thing on my site, just click here to browse through by the tag.
So excited to see this again tomorrow!
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
DY_nasty said:
Where did you get the sense that Jake
didn't know how to use his body? The movie showed him as having become very adept with his body; he killed that animal perfectly and was able to tame one of the Banshees, no easy feat. He also kicked the butt of that warrior guy. I think the implication is supposed to be that human abilities/intelligence mixed with an Avatar body created, as Quarritch might say, "a potent mix." It's also clearly implied that he was able to tame the Sky Shadow by surprising it. Why you would think that he tazed it or drugged it is beyond me; there is a rather clear implication on the movie's part.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Norm's Avatar was supposed to have been killed; again, it seems like you're trying to argue that there's a plothole based on a weird interpretation of what happened.
I doubt the Na'vi had access to guns.
Your thing about Michelle Rodriguez's death: I can't argue that, since it's an opinion. It affected me.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Norm's Avatar was supposed to have been killed; again, it seems like you're trying to argue that there's a plothole based on a weird interpretation of what happened.
I doubt the Na'vi had access to guns.
Your thing about Michelle Rodriguez's death: I can't argue that, since it's an opinion. It affected me.
A stupid question thats been nagging at me for a while now, just gonna spit it out (gonna get shit on for this...) Why was the AVATAR program even necessary?... The Navi knew Jake was an "alien" despite the similar body structure.... Was it for mobility and not needing to use gas masks?
Zeouterlimits
Member
Just back from a RealD showing, quite enjoyed it.
Not sure how I feel about the "depth" of the movie, but it certainly felt as if the Na'vi had an arguably unfair moral base, being physically in communion with the planet/nature.
Real potential for a sequel
Not sure how I feel about the "depth" of the movie, but it certainly felt as if the Na'vi had an arguably unfair moral base, being physically in communion with the planet/nature.
Real potential for a sequel
Apart from it somewhat being a lame next step, why wouldn't more humans come back with even more weaponry. Attack the sacred site from Orbit for gods sake, see the Na'vi stop that!
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
It seems weird to me that no other Na'vi considered coming from above and surprising it.
While it must have been more complicated, the way Jake casually mentions it cheapened it for me.
While it must have been more complicated, the way Jake casually mentions it cheapened it for me.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
DanielPlainview said:
Or just go to youtube and type 'Avatar featurette' and you'll get them all.
Well, it's been a fairly shitty year on that front. It was infinitely better than Transformers 2, GI Joe, Wolverine, Star Trek, etc, but those movies were all pretty bad. I guess it's better than Terminator Salvation. I'd put Watchmen, District 9 and Up way above Avatar.XiaNaphryz said:
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Defcon said:
I loved the world and characters and want to see more. This was my favorite blockbuster movie this whole year by a fairly wide margin.
Dabookerman
Member
DanielPlainview said:
Thanks dude !
Awesome stuff. The way I feel, I want to rob a bank and steal £50,000 to buy the 100" 3D HDTV lol!
Fair enough to some of these points, but some quick rebuttals:Dan said:
Why is it unbelievable that a planet might evolve like that? Our brains did. There's no biological evidence to say it can't, and moreover...come on, dude, it's a movie.
The Na'avi had previously allowed Weaver's character to totally chill with them, but she wasn't up for learning the ways of the warrior. They didn't really have a particular problem with specific Sky-people, and if they believed that the seed of the megatree were holy, why is that a stupid sign? These people are obviously hippies.
It was indirectly mentioned, but the whole Avatar program seemed like more of a concessional effort to make it APPEAR as though they had tried diplomacy. Effective or not, it was important to the public.
Yeah, they should have been shooting the explosives, I guess. It's possible they were plastic explosives, and would not be affected by kinetic impact, though. Maybe Jake told them?
Jake had the advantages of a kickass mount, several modern grenades, a machine gun rifle, and a marine's knowledge of the tactics and technology of the opposing army. I did not find this unbelievable at all.
Score was meh, I guess, yeah. I don't remember much of it.
Not all of the Na'avi are warriors. Are you saying you wouldn't cry if your house was burnt down, your brother and parents brutally murdered for no real reason?
I dunno. Just seems like you're trying to find things.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
As for sequel ideas, I can totally see a sequel about
Pandora dying. Imagine something happens to its electrically charged atmosphere and those Hallelujah mountains start coming down. Maybe the humans even come to help.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
DY_nasty said:
It was established that this was a corporation, not a government operation. As such they will be less concerned with revenge and getting the planet back and more concerned with the bottom line and how much they've already lost. They essentially have to start from scratch on the mining operation there, and that's after the cost it would take to get rid of the Navi. A businessman would just cut their losses and find a new source of ore.
I'll be very disappointed if there is a sequel. It's not needed.
Count Dookkake
Member
Also for a sequel, who is to say that we won't see either
a 'de-braided' traitor Navi siding with humans or even a Navi in a human Avatar body?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I thought the score was meh on first viewing and completely changed my opinion on second viewing. It could have been better, but for the most part it was good. Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBtaRoRfFZ0#t=4m55s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBtaRoRfFZ0#t=4m55s
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I think the best sequel would be
On the humans' way home they encounter a distress beacon and following it to LV426.
Count Dookkake
Member
Scullibundo said:
I was thinking this would be one of the first fan-fics!
Also imagining SW fans attempting to tie midichlorians into Pandora.
I fucking loved it. Yes, all the criticisms listed are completed valid and completely true. The story is nothing we haven't seen a hundred times, the characters have the depth of the kiddy pool, and the dialogue can be cheesey in places. Strangely enough, while those qualities are usually killers, none of them seemed to matter in the overall experience.
Forget 3D, Pandora is the true revelation of Avatar. Its the most complete and wonderfully realized fantasy world ever put to celluloid. The setting didn't make this movie, it was this movie. Much like how Jesse James carries me along by setting a certain mood and tone, Avatar accomplishes the same feat with its setting and the flora and fauna within it. Truly a remarkable feat. This thing had almost unparelled art design and vision.
I said forget 3D and tech, but I really can't, because while I'm still not sold on 3D, I think the movie has raised the bar for CG and motion capture performances. Absolutely spectacular. Despite 90% of the movie being fake, it never felt fake. I bought into these weird humanoid Na'vi. I bought into the strange creatures that populated the world. I bought into the lush jungles and mountainous terrain. I bought it all.
Finally, James Cameron directed the shit out of this movie. He re-emerges after 12 years, and not only does he not show any signs of rust, he actually improves his craft and wholly embarrasses his modern day action director peers. This a man that understands spatial dynamics, editing, camera position and pacing like very few others. I hope the movie turns out to be a huge success, because Cameron just showed again why you're always going to lose when you bet against him.
Forget 3D, Pandora is the true revelation of Avatar. Its the most complete and wonderfully realized fantasy world ever put to celluloid. The setting didn't make this movie, it was this movie. Much like how Jesse James carries me along by setting a certain mood and tone, Avatar accomplishes the same feat with its setting and the flora and fauna within it. Truly a remarkable feat. This thing had almost unparelled art design and vision.
I said forget 3D and tech, but I really can't, because while I'm still not sold on 3D, I think the movie has raised the bar for CG and motion capture performances. Absolutely spectacular. Despite 90% of the movie being fake, it never felt fake. I bought into these weird humanoid Na'vi. I bought into the strange creatures that populated the world. I bought into the lush jungles and mountainous terrain. I bought it all.
Finally, James Cameron directed the shit out of this movie. He re-emerges after 12 years, and not only does he not show any signs of rust, he actually improves his craft and wholly embarrasses his modern day action director peers. This a man that understands spatial dynamics, editing, camera position and pacing like very few others. I hope the movie turns out to be a huge success, because Cameron just showed again why you're always going to lose when you bet against him.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Solo said:
But what did you think of the 3D itself as used in the movie? If you were to rewatch it, would you settle for 2D?
Also, I have to ask, even though I know you like going against expected responses, how would you compare Davy Jones and Neytiri now?
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
I know we have our differences with Trek and I was able to shut off my brain enough to find TF2 acceptable, but besides that it looks like we share the same opinion on everything else. I'll be seeing Avatar in 3D later tonight up at Skywalker for a company screening, so I'll see if I end up feeling the same as you did on it or not.Dan said:
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Jake beat the guys ass in a straight up fight, nice, but we all knew Jake could fight okay. But could he ever move like a Na'vi? Barely. In no way during the movie was he ever moving better than any other na'vi on screen. And what did he kill? A little wolf like creature like the 12 that Neytiri killed earlier? With her hands?
We don't know what the hell happened with that large avain because Cameron felt it necessary to spend 20 minutes on 6-legged horse bonding instead of how Jake managed to take down a creature so vicious that only 5 na'vi in history have caught.
We don't know what the hell happened with that large avain because Cameron felt it necessary to spend 20 minutes on 6-legged horse bonding instead of how Jake managed to take down a creature so vicious that only 5 na'vi in history have caught.
No. Its not clear. At least to anyone in the movie theater with me. It looked like he got shot, stumbled a bit, then suddenly woke up. Again, I'd rather something like that, or Michelle Rodriguez's character be better explained than have time wasted on Sigourney Weaver rants.
they had access every time they killed a soldier, and according to what the beginning of the movie, they had plenty of access
It was stupid. Knowing that they have a fucking gunship of their own own, you'd think that they'd develop a better plan then "pop up behind them and annoy them slightly!".She circle strafes the large gunship with ease, then decides to give Jake a call "yo, my thumbs are getting tired - i'm mailing it in"? Really? I mean hell, they don't even explain why she decided to help the scientists to begin with. They don't explain anything about her.
I liked this movie, I really did. But talking about this like Cameron deserves even a nomination is a bit of a joke. The story was over simplified (whether that was the intention or not) but at the same time, basic things in the movie were done poorly. There's no reason for a 3 hour long movie to have problems explaining characters. The only thing that I can give Cameron props for regarding the movie was the fact that he managed to get people to make a connection with na'vi and create a flat out gorgeous environment. Its a beautifully average movie, and if it wasn't so pretty, no one would love it.
Scullibundo said:
Several members of our audience, including me, kept saying "wow" at various points. Example
The flying luminescent creatures, that were so gorgeous, as the floated in front of me, in front of all of us.
Scullibundo said:
I know you didn't ask me, but I think I'll be ok with seeing the movie in 2d at home. The 3d to me was subtle. It added a lot of depth and helped sell the world as "real".. but I think the movie will fair pretty well in 2d as well. Like I said in my review, this was the first movie where 3d wasn't sold as a gimmick but to add depth to the image.
It is also the first 3d movie I've seen that looked like real 3d. Most of them have looked more like the Virtual Boy where there are a couple of flat 2d planes at different levels. Some of the live action scenes looked like the person was really there.
The CG character work was excellent and extremely believable. When Neyerti
cries at her fathers death, it felt real. I really thought there was a 6 foot tall blue thing mourning her fathers death. The facial movement was amazing.
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