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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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I don't know dudes, when those floaty things were being all beautiful right in my face, I literally said "Oh My God" out loud.

Thats not something that would've happened in 2D, I think.
 
Feep said:
Fair enough to some of these points, but some quick rebuttals:
Why is it unbelievable that a planet might evolve like that? Our brains did. There's no biological evidence to say it can't, and moreover...come on, dude, it's a movie.
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The evolution comment was more about the one intelligent species being able to connect to tons of other species and control them with thoughts. That seems rather... convenient.

The Na'avi had previously allowed Weaver's character to totally chill with them, but she wasn't up for learning the ways of the warrior. They didn't really have a particular problem with specific Sky-people, and if they believed that the seed of the megatree were holy, why is that a stupid sign? These people are obviously hippies.
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Hippies are dumb. I just can't have much sympathy for a society that is so naive, especially after what was apparently years of negative interaction with humanity. Plus, they seemed to be aware of how the avatars were connected to someone on the other side, so you'd think being wary of giving away vital information would be a pressing concern.

It was indirectly mentioned, but the whole Avatar program seemed like more of a concessional effort to make it APPEAR as though they had tried diplomacy. Effective or not, it was important to the public.
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I only recall Selfridge caring about shareholders who might prefer not to slaughter the Na'vi, but ultimately they didn't care. I mean, if at the end of the day a company believes shareholders will be okay with killing people, then it would also believe that foregoing the pointless and expensive "diplomatic solution" would lead to more profits.

Not all of the Na'avi are warriors. Are you saying you wouldn't cry if your house was burnt down, your brother and parents brutally murdered for no real reason?
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I'm saying I would not drop to my knees and wail at the sky, yes. I cannot for the life of me comprehend that action.

XiaNaphryz said:
I know we have our differences with Trek and I was able to shut off my brain enough to find TF2 acceptable, but besides that it looks like we share the same opinion on everything else. I'll be seeing Avatar in 3D later tonight up at Skywalker for a company screening, so I'll see if I end up feeling the same as you did on it or not.
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If you can manage to enjoy TF2 to an extent, Avatar should be easy to enjoy, even if problems crop up later upon thinking about the film. At its dumbest Avatar is still way smarter than TF2 ever was.
 
Saw it earlier

What an amazing experience. Coming out of the theatre I just felt....extremely overjoyed. All I want is to see it again. Best movie experience of the year, by far best Sci-Fi/Fantasy of the year.

I can pretty much rank this in the Top 3 Cameron films along with Aliens and The Abyss.

There are definitely faults in the movie, its not a perfect movie...but it was as close to a perfect movie experience as Ive ever had. Only comparable experience would be seeing Fellowship of the Ring for the first time.

I just want to see it again...

also,
Jarhead clan
:lol
 
It might sound crazy, but if given the option should I choose IMAX or RealD? I know IMAX has the bigger screen, but other than that what are the differences?
 
DY_nasty said:
Jake beat the guys ass in a straight up fight, nice, but we all knew Jake could fight okay. But could he ever move like a Na'vi? Barely. In no way during the movie was he ever moving better than any other na'vi on screen. And what did he kill? A little wolf like creature like the 12 that Neytiri killed earlier? With her hands?

We don't know what the hell happened with that large avain because Cameron felt it necessary to spend 20 minutes on 6-legged horse bonding instead of how Jake managed to take down a creature so vicious that only 5 na'vi in history have caught.


No. Its not clear. At least to anyone in the movie theater with me. It looked like he got shot, stumbled a bit, then suddenly woke up. Again, I'd rather something like that, or Michelle Rodriguez's character be better explained than have time wasted on Sigourney Weaver rants.
they had access every time they killed a soldier, and according to what the beginning of the movie, they had plenty of access


It was stupid. Knowing that they have a fucking gunship of their own own, you'd think that they'd develop a better plan then "pop up behind them and annoy them slightly!".She circle strafes the large gunship with ease, then decides to give Jake a call "yo, my thumbs are getting tired - i'm mailing it in"? Really? I mean hell, they don't even explain why she decided to help the scientists to begin with. They don't explain anything about her.

I liked this movie, I really did. But talking about this like Cameron deserves even a nomination is a bit of a joke. The story was over simplified (whether that was the intention or not) but at the same time, basic things in the movie were done poorly. There's no reason for a 3 hour long movie to have problems explaining characters. The only thing that I can give Cameron props for regarding the movie was the fact that he managed to get people to make a connection with na'vi and create a flat out gorgeous environment. Its a beautifully average movie, and if it wasn't so pretty, no one would love it.
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I seriously don't understand the implication that Jake did anything other than tame the Sky Shadow straight up. Why would he even have had a tazer or anything like that? From what we can see, he didn't go back to the shack or anything like that, and he didn't have tech or anything like that with him prior to that. The scene loses all dramatic purpose if you try to put something there that's not implied. I would also say that the First Flight scene showed Jake moving like a Na'vi, hence why those guys were cheering him.

It looked like his Na'Vi self got shot in the upper chest/shoulder area, so it's quite possible that the bullet hit the heart or something. To me, it was quite clear that he was supposed to have been killed. And you know what, even if he wasn't, why does it matter? Why is it a deficiency on the movie's part to not show what happens when an Avatar is killed? Just because they could have showed that doesn't mean they had to.

As for the gun point: nobody in movies picks up guns/ammo after they kill somebody. I would think that you'd be used to that by now.

It was kind of a stupid plan. At the same time, though, it's quite possible that Rodriguez's character thought that she could out-pilot the other ships and come out fine. Plus, it's not as though they had a ton of time to formulate a plan for her.

I really think that this movie was very well-directed and Cameron definitely deserves a nomination. I think that everything about the characters was right there in the movie; it's one thing to not buy it, but to say that it's not there just rings false to me.
 
I'm waiting around to see it now. 3d session was sold out so have to settle for 2d. If it's good I'll go back an see it in 3d.
 
Dan said:
The evolution comment was more about the one intelligent species being able to connect to tons of other species and control them with thoughts. That seems rather... convenient.
Click to expand...

Hands are pretty convenient, too.





Regarding guns and the concerns about wasted weaponry... Navi hands are very big compared to human hands.
 
DY_nasty said:
We don't know what the hell happened with that large avain because Cameron felt it necessary to spend 20 minutes on 6-legged horse bonding instead of how Jake managed to take down a creature so vicious that only 5 na'vi in history have caught.
Click to expand...

all he did was attack from above and grab its queue, at least that's how I pictured it happening.
 
Dan said:
If you can manage to enjoy TF2 to an extent, Avatar should be easy to enjoy, even if problems crop up later upon thinking about the film. At its dumbest Avatar is still way smarter than TF2 ever was.
Click to expand...
TF2 was goofy enough throughout the whole thing that the dumbness of it was easy to shrug off. Which is why I wasn't as keen on Terminator or Wolverine in comparison. We'll see in a couple hours - I've kept myself away from any Avatar information outside seeing some of the shots we worked on, so that might help a bit as I'll be going without any expectations in regards to plot.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Hands are pretty convenient, too.
Click to expand...
Are you really going to tell me that a creature having a port into their brain for letting other creatures control them is a beneficial adaptation?
 
I really liked how Cameron dealt with Ewya
A deity for the Na'vi, yet it's actually a Planetmind that connects with the inhabitants through a neural network
Was expecting a more straight up Fantasy bend.
 
Dead said:
I really liked how Cameron dealt with Ewya
A deity for the Na'vi, yet it's actually a Planetmind that connects with the inhabitants through a neural network
Was expecting a more straight up Fantasy bend.
Click to expand...

YES. That was awesome how
the humans are being dismissive of the 'primitive' religion and Grace says something like "Yeah, but this one is real." Massive LOLs and balls, Cameron.
 
Dan said:
The evolution comment was more about the one intelligent species being able to connect to tons of other species and control them with thoughts. That seems rather... convenient.
.
Click to expand...

The planet was more a product of intelligent design. The planets neural network may have made it an advantage to be able to network with the planet itself.
 
Btw, lol at all the people who were complaining "Why dont they just unplug the avatars!?!"

Count Dookkake said:
YES. That was awesome how
the humans are being dismissive of the 'primitive' religion and Grace says something like "Yeah, but this one is real." Massive LOLs and balls, Cameron.
Click to expand...
Yeah

Speaking of Grace, I had a feeling they would find a way to
Transfer the person from Human body to Avatar, and I loved the way they did it. I was worried it was going to be some voodoo magic wave of hands thing. I also liked that Jake decided himself to abandon his body rather than be forced to due to an injury
 
The whole planetary system reminded me alot of Card's Speaker for the Dead.

Sculli knows what I'm talking about.




I loved how it all worked and how all the species are connected.
 
Direction: Cameron is a genius!
Screenplay: Any fourth grade boy could have written that movie.

I just recently saw, "Battle for Terra", which is essentially the same damn plot. At least that movie threw a little twist in there with the "natives" and the "human invaders" were provided with a more compelling reason why they were trying to take over the planet.

The highest compliment I can give to the 3D is that I forgot about it after 30 minutes. It just fit right in.

Definitely worth the experience, but anyone taking about Oscars for this in any non-technical category need to have their head examined.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Maybe if you better understand the humans (or aliens) motivations you feel less empathy for the Na'vi. Which defeats the purpose of the movie.


Look at the Alien movies. Did they have a motivation for attacking humans? Did they need one?
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Some men (or aliens) just want to watch the world burn.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I seriously don't understand the implication that Jake did anything other than tame the Sky Shadow straight up. Why would he even have had a tazer or anything like that? From what we can see, he didn't go back to the shack or anything like that, and he didn't have tech or anything like that with him prior to that. The scene loses all dramatic purpose if you try to put something there that's not implied. I would also say that the First Flight scene showed Jake moving like a Na'vi, hence why those guys were cheering him.

It looked like his Na'Vi self got shot in the upper chest/shoulder area, so it's quite possible that the bullet hit the heart or something. To me, it was quite clear that he was supposed to have been killed. And you know what, even if he wasn't, why does it matter? Why is it a deficiency on the movie's part to not show what happens when an Avatar is killed? Just because they could have showed that doesn't mean they had to.

As for the gun point: nobody in movies picks up guns/ammo after they kill somebody. I would think that you'd be used to that by now.

It was kind of a stupid plan. At the same time, though, it's quite possible that Rodriguez's character thought that she could out-pilot the other ships and come out fine. Plus, it's not as though they had a ton of time to formulate a plan for her.

I really think that this movie was very well-directed and Cameron definitely deserves a nomination. I think that everything about the characters was right there in the movie; it's one thing to not buy it, but to say that it's not there just rings false to me.
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1. He put the damned thing in a sleeper and then a triangle leglock - how the fuck is moving like a na'vi?

2. Fear of death is necessary. Certain actions mean different things entirely when there is no fear of death. It should have been addressed.

3. They had enough time to
perch thousands of hunters on the sides of the floating mountains and coordinate attacks between those forces in the sky and those on the ground.
They plenty of time to find out how to get the most out of the[spoiler one gunship[/spoiler] they had. Especially since Michelle Rodriguez turned out to be the most skilled pilot (who's somehow ferrying scientists) on the planet.

4. Okay, just to give you an example of something wrong.
Jake comes into this guys world wearing this false avatar body, instead being allowed to kill him on the spot, he's forced to not kill him for 3 months and guide him through the final stages of the ritual of his people. Then, Jake fucks his wife to be. THEN, Jake beats his ass. After that, Jake tells him that he's the harbinger of his people's destruction and destroys highest family of the clan - and you just know the guy is pissed because he wanted to kill him off gate. Later, Jake gets the chief of the village killed. Okay. Wow... well thats all over with - no wait! Jake shows up again, this time riding this sacred avian and claiming all of his power.

Why is he not pissed? Why? He's lost everything because of Jake.
And don't say that the Na'vi aren't as emotional because they all shit their pants when their horses die and when the grass gets cut.

5. They need to show how
Jake took that thing because he could barely take on the little guys. I was being sarcastic when I said that he tazed him but still - explain how this guy who just learned to walk again has managed to take down this beast so legendary that only 5 na'vi could. Its a big deal because without that thing, he's shit out of luck and the planet gets plowed and mined.
 
Dan said:
Are you really going to tell me that a creature having a port into their brain for letting other creatures control them is a beneficial adaptation?
Click to expand...

I would think that it's more along the lines of every creature finding benefit by being connected to the planet's neural network and the Na'vi having used their intelligence to twist that connection to their benefit.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Regarding guns and the concerns about wasted weaponry... Navi hands are very big compared to human hands.
Click to expand...
Jake is holding a gun the entire time!
 
Count Dookkake said:
Yes, he is. But is it the same kind of gun the soldiers carry?







No!
Click to expand...
lol, wtf

Arrows go throw bullet proof windows like its nothing - clearly they've taken those things down before. There's no way that the na'vi simply never came into contact with guns before.
 
DY_nasty said:
lol, wtf

Arrows go throw bullet proof windows like its nothing - clearly they've taken those things down before. There's no way that the na'vi simply never came into contact with guns before.
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you are trying to say or how that rebuts my point about the size of guns and hands. Can you please restate that somehow?
 
You know, as mind bogglingly impressive as the Effects were, there was one in particular that pretty much blew my mind. Towards the end when
Neytiri is holding Jakes human body
It was so real, I was in awe. Perfect mix of live action and CGI, it felt like they were both real.
 
Count Dookkake said:
I don't understand what you are trying to say or how that rebuts my point about the size of guns and hands. Can you please restate that somehow?
Click to expand...
The humans in the movie make it clear that Pandora kicks their asses on a daily basis. There is no way that the na'vi didn't come across a downed gunship here and there or pick up any weapons. Hell, if they can figure out that gas masks are necessary for human life than surely they can figure out how to use a grenade.
 
gdt5016 said:
wtfisthisshit.

Give me some damn impressions.

Play the tape dammit!
Click to expand...


:lol I gave my impressions on the last page (or perhaps this one if you're a dirty 100 posts per page kind of guy).

shintoki said:
So, curious how many of you are going be seeing this a dozen more times :lol
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Ill probably see it twice more. Once with another group of friends, and Ill take my father to see it over X-mas.
 
Dead said:
You know, as mind bogglingly impressive as the Effects were, there was one in particular that pretty much blew my mind. Towards the end when
Neytiri is holding Jakes human body
It was so real, I was in awe. Perfect mix of live action and CGI, it felt like they were both real.
Click to expand...

YES.
 
DY_nasty said:
The humans in the movie make it clear that Pandora kicks their asses on a daily basis. There is no way that the na'vi didn't come across a downed gunship here and there or pick up any weapons. Hell, if they can figure out that gas masks are necessary for human life than surely they can figure out how to use a grenade.
Click to expand...

Do you understand that the Navi are much bigger than humans?
 
shintoki said:
So, curious how many of you are going be seeing this a dozen more times :lol
Click to expand...
I'll probably see it again next week when I'm in Canada with the fam. I'm gonna be in London, Ontario... I hope they put up a 3D screen out there..
 
Solo said:
:lol I gave my impressions on the last page (or perhaps this one if you're a dirty 100 posts per page kind of guy).
Click to expand...

Dirty?

WE are the TRUE People Of GAF.








Yeah, I'm think I'm seeing it again tomorrow.
 
Best scene in the movie for me was Jake catching his banshee, flying for the first time, and Neytiri joining him. Really nailed the unbridaled joy. Best use of 3D? I really dug those white spirit seeds or whatever they were called. Also, I really love how there was constantly bugs and shit flying around - really added some authenticity to things. Best CG? Impossible to say, since the whole thing was immaculate from start to finish.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Do you understand that the Navi are much bigger than humans?
Click to expand...
I understand that clearly. Jake can throw a grenade. y/n?

Whats stopping the rest of the na'vi from stocking up?
 
Dan said:
The evolution comment was more about the one intelligent species being able to connect to tons of other species and control them with thoughts. That seems rather... convenient.
Click to expand...
Isnt "evolution" in it's entirety.....merely....one BIG convenience?
 
DY_nasty said:
I understand that clearly. Jake can throw a grenade. y/n?

Whats stopping the rest of the na'vi from stocking up?
Click to expand...

First things first. Do you now understand why it is incredibly humorous to think the Navi could use human sized guns?
 
Count Dookkake said:
First things first. Do you now understand why it is incredibly humorous to think the Navi could use human sized guns?
Click to expand...
Even the most mechanically impaired child can figure out that you can put a stick into something you can't fit your finger into. If they wanted to use those guns, they could've found a way. Any explanation as to "why not" would've been nice.
 
DY_nasty said:
Even the most mechanically impaired child can figure out that you can put a stick into something you can't fit your finger into. If they wanted to use those guns, they could've found a way. Any explanation as to "why not" would've been nice.
Click to expand...

The answer is provided. They have giant hands. I am giggling at the idea of a director's cut featuring a Navi stick-trigger brigade. Maybe Cameron's saving it for the sequel.

Next up, grenades...

Yes, Jake can use them. He is familiar with them. I didn't catch how the pin mechanism works in the film, but I imagine that to an inexperienced Navi, handling them is not worth the risk.
 
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
I'm just not sure where you're getting the impression that there's just giant piles of guns that the Na'vi can have.
Click to expand...
There doesn't need to be giant pile of guns, just a dead soldier or downed gunship. Which there seemed to be plenty of.
 
Count Dookkake said:
The answer is provided. They have giant hands. I am giggling at the idea of a director's cut featuring a Navi stick-trigger brigade. Maybe Cameron's saving it for the sequel.

Next up, grenades...

Yes, Jake can use them. He is familiar with them. I didn't catch how the pin mechanism works in the film, but I imagine that to an inexperienced Navi, handling them is not worth the risk.
Click to expand...
And you know...Jake has human hands...the Na'vi have different shaped hands that most likely woudn't be able to properly grasp a Gun

Also, Grace definitely had a human nose on her Avatar body, unlike Jake. Wonder why that was.
 
Hopefully the movie does well so that a sequel gets greenlit. Now that the tech is done and in place there is no reason why Cameron shouldnt be able to Empire Strikes Back the fuck out of the series.
 
Dead said:
You know, as mind bogglingly impressive as the Effects were, there was one in particular that pretty much blew my mind. Towards the end when
Neytiri is holding Jakes human body
It was so real, I was in awe. Perfect mix of live action and CGI, it felt like they were both real.
Click to expand...

The same can be said for when
Tsu'Tey is attacking the humans in the cargo hold, though it's less striking because they're not directly touching each other. Still, it was a 'wow' moment.
 
The movie makes the game a lot crappier.

After you watch the movie you realise the game should have Assassin's Creed gameplay mechanics when playing as a Na'vi :lol
 
Dead said:
And you know...Jake has human hands...the Na'vi have different shaped hands that most likely woudn't be able to properly grasp a Gun
Click to expand...

But why don't they pick up the guns between their thumb and forefingers and pull the triggers with tiny sticks!!!?!?! :P

Dead said:
Also, Grace definitely had a human nose on her Avatar body, unlike Jake. Wonder why that was.
Click to expand...

Hmm. That is a good question.
Who nose?
Maybe it was an earlier attempt at a hybrid? Or maybe it has something to do with her anthropologist ways, like her wearing of human clothes. Perhaps she is not trying to fool the Navi with her appearance, but only to make them comfortable?
 
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