-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)
- Thread starter SCULLIBUNDO
- Start date
- Status
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
back from my second watching, had about 5 days since the first one. still awesome.
noticed how simple the story etc really is when watching it again, but the action scenes are just monstrously huge and the beauty of the world still just stands out in a wonderful way. i agree with others who have said it feels like scenes are missing, it could do with another 20 minutes of character development. the
loved seeing the bf and my mum's reactions. she's a huge fan of aliens/terminator etc and really loved this one. i think i saw the boy wiping away a tear at one point. LOL.
such a great film.
noticed how simple the story etc really is when watching it again, but the action scenes are just monstrously huge and the beauty of the world still just stands out in a wonderful way. i agree with others who have said it feels like scenes are missing, it could do with another 20 minutes of character development. the
avatar/'reality' switchings can seem a bit disjointed. noticed other stuff like the upward shot of the 'dropship' pilot (whatever her name is) just like the one from aliens when ferro lands. </nerd>
loved seeing the bf and my mum's reactions. she's a huge fan of aliens/terminator etc and really loved this one. i think i saw the boy wiping away a tear at one point. LOL.
such a great film.
julls said:
Good to know the second viewing held up for you. It's often a sign that my hype is obscuring the quality of the film when the second viewing falls far short.
So would you say even with the simple story and truncated characters, and disregarding the wonder of the visuals, would this still be a great film? I know I've been asking this a lot, but I just want a bunch of impressions.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
for me it's a great movie, because of the world and the visuals. part of the wonder is the completely convincing avatar effects, creatures, environment etc. noone's made a movie before with such a convincing, but inviting alien world, with such realism. i think the reason people are so blown away by it is the way in which the effects aren't intrusive, they make up the entire film. it's a warm, exciting movie; it's also a spectacle - don't expect much in the way of subtlety.Justinian said:
sorry - it's late, kinda rambling
Anton Sugar
Member
Actually surprised with Sculli's review.
Great review. Enjoyed this:
For the record, I will be seeing it in Imax 3D this Saturday, so I'm not a hater, just a doubter.
Tobor said:
Great review. Enjoyed this:
For the record, I will be seeing it in Imax 3D this Saturday, so I'm not a hater, just a doubter.
The prediction I make for Avatar is simple: this is 2009's King Kong. It's a movie that will dazzle many people, but in a little while - maybe months, maybe years - the consensus will slowly change. Distanced from that first spectacular 3D screening, people will begin to realize how hollow and stupid the story is, how there are no characters to care about and how ham-fisted Cameron is with his deep thoughts straight from the freshman dorm. Unlike Kong I suspect that Avatar will be somewhat watchable - Cameron does bloated better than Peter Jackson does - but removed from the big screen the film will lose all impact.
Since the film is so dependent on technology, I do kinda wonder how it will ultimately be appraised after that first theatrical run.
Since the film is so dependent on technology, I do kinda wonder how it will ultimately be appraised after that first theatrical run.
Some of these nerds on the internet really need to give up the whole "I wasn't emotionally invested into this piece of cinema, therefore I shall bestow upon it a 6.5 out of 10" bullshit.
First of all, do we really need decimals in rating scales? Not every god damn movie needs to be Hamlet. Just sit back and allow yourself to be entertained instead of over analyzing the characters and whether or not the story is wholly original or not.
I haven't watched an original plot in a movie in 20 years.
First of all, do we really need decimals in rating scales? Not every god damn movie needs to be Hamlet. Just sit back and allow yourself to be entertained instead of over analyzing the characters and whether or not the story is wholly original or not.
I haven't watched an original plot in a movie in 20 years.
Just came back from seeing it. Liked it a lot, but I don't love it. Plot is weak and predictabel and dialog is decent but not great. Character development is also not great.
I loved the way Pandora looks and the special effects are fantastic. I'll be watching it in 3d this friday, it's gonna be a visual orgy.
Too be honest I liked district 9 more, so that remains my favorite sf movie of the year.
I loved the way Pandora looks and the special effects are fantastic. I'll be watching it in 3d this friday, it's gonna be a visual orgy.
Too be honest I liked district 9 more, so that remains my favorite sf movie of the year.
Anton Sugar
Member
Defcon said:
Yeah, but you could say this about any bad movie (NOT saying Avatar is bad). "You just need to relax and enjoy it, man."
Movies work best when you are engaged.
phatmike128 said:
That's what I'm looking forward to the most as far as the 3D and the visuals in general - the depiction of Pandora during night-time. The bioluminescence in the night scenes in the trailers is goddamn gorgeous, and I can only imagine it on a big screen and in 3D.
Friday needs to be here already.
TrAcEr_x90
Member
how is it everyone has seen it already? i thought its setup for a thursday midnight release?
Mr. Snrub said:
I agree with you. However, it seems like a lot of these so called "critics" have an axe to grind with this type of film in their reviews. I don't understand why they even bother watching them.
Terminator 2 had cheesy dialogue and a paper thin plot as well. It's still held in high regard amongst most movie goers today. Cameron has never been great at engaging you with three dimensional characters and eloquent dialogue.
Anton Sugar
Member
Defcon said:
This is true. I think the call for three-dimensional characters is a little much, but from some of the reviews, the characters in Avatar are almost forgettable when compared to the picture on the whole. No one forgets Arnold, the T-1000, Dyson, whiney Furlong or overracting Linda. They tie the whole experience together.
Like I said, I haven't seen it. But I don't think I'm going to be nervous/cheering for the "alien", they way I did in movies like District 9.
Mr. Snrub said:
From what I've read both Zoe Saldana and Stephen Lang seem to be highly memorable, though that appears to be more for their performances than the characters themselves. It's likely a combination of the two, though, since they are essentially playing iconic archetypes (though I'm sure there's more depth there for Neytiri).
Deadly Monk
Banned
Got my tickets for the midnight, digital 3D! (King of Prussia, PA). Can't wait!
Defcon said:
Yes, Cameron crushes Bay, but you have to admit a similar response was issued. Devin's review sounds actually like the most... I don't want to say 'honest'... non-hyped that I've read for the thing. Everyone else sounds like they've basically just been in an orgy. If the story and characters aren't great, I'll get over that - I'll go see it for the visuals and action sequences alone, 'cause hey, I love that shit too.
But I expect to have a similar feeling as Devin did. Hope Cameron surprises the hell out of me.
RBelong2Us
Member
It's not like the good reviews aren't down on the plot and characters. The majority of the positive reviews mention the weak story but admit to being swept by the visuals so much that the story didn't bother them as much as it would have if the visuals were not so spectacular.
What Devin makes a good point about is that the majority of individuals will not be seeing this film on 3DImax like most these critics are, so it's going to be interesting to see the differences in reaction.
What Devin makes a good point about is that the majority of individuals will not be seeing this film on 3DImax like most these critics are, so it's going to be interesting to see the differences in reaction.
Gary Whitta
Member
Never let it be said that Cameron doesn't go balls-out to make his movies. Interesting story about how he nearly died on the set of The Abyss:
Complete excerpt when you click on the link.
http://techland.com/2009/12/14/james-cameron-almost-died-making-the-abyss/
Complete excerpt when you click on the link.
RBelong2Us
Member
border said:
Good example is District 9. The last 30+ minutes of the movie with the full blown out action would have been totally meaningless if I didn't care about Wikus and the prawn looking aliens.
There needs to be some sort of connection to the characters in order to give a shit about whats actually happening on the screen.
Robot Without A Cause
Member
Not to mention, engaging characters and plot are going to be expected when you hype a movie up like it's the second coming. I mean, I don't think I should have to turn my brain off to enjoy "the film that will change movie-making forever." If your movie is that damn good, don't tell me later, "Well, it's that good if you just ignore these major problems..."border said:
I really don't know if this is actually going to be a problem with Avatar. I'll find out soon enough (if I can get IMAX tickets anytime soon, at least).
RBelong2Us said:
A lot of reviews praise the final 30 minutes or so and said that was partly due to their investment in what was going on. You've also got a couple reviewers actually complaining that the audience was cheering when the Na'vi would take out human soldiers. Remains to be seen whether you or I develop any attachment to them, but it certainly isn't impossible.
Robot Without A Cause said:
The hype was and is strictly referring to the technology. Cameron never promised a story we've never seen, but he did promise us revolutionary visuals, and has apparently delivered.
brandonh83
Banned
Well, if it's on the level of cheesiness and devoid of good characterization like Transformers or something like that, I'll kindly burn every Cameron movie I have here. However, I highly doubt that.
Hype always ruins expectations. I haven't even followed the movie until the last few days. It's possible people were just expecting too much but I've always known this would be a film to show off Cameron's technical capability and be light on storytelling, much like every other movie he's ever made.
Hype always ruins expectations. I haven't even followed the movie until the last few days. It's possible people were just expecting too much but I've always known this would be a film to show off Cameron's technical capability and be light on storytelling, much like every other movie he's ever made.
border said:
The Matrix 3 issue, basically. Tons of snazzy special effects, billions of bullets being fired, but I couldn't give a damn. A bullet is just a bullet till it's pointed at someone or something you care about.
That said, I'm not going to pass judgement on AVATAR till I've seen it. But Devin's review is the most reasonable I've read so far.
afternoon delight
Member
All I know is - I'll be watching a three dimensional action movie by James Cameron.
How fucking cool is that? I want a film by the guy Michael Bay wishes he could be.
How fucking cool is that? I want a film by the guy Michael Bay wishes he could be.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I think possibly one of the reasons why a lot of people are reacting sourly to the mere idea of Avatar's story and way that story is told, is because while it's true that Avatar is as "simple" and ham-fisted as every Cameron movie, the problem is the subject matter.
Terminator 1 and 2 may be simple and hammed up but they center around a grim, apocalyptic theme that, frankly, most people seem able to believe in: that humanity is insane and poised to destroy itself. Even the arguably silly theme of killer robots is easier to swallow because Skynet and the Evil Machines seem more like a punishment for sins that the average person can believe are legitimate.
So in short, everyone agrees: humans are insane, nuclear war is a very real threat and just about everyone agrees it is a Bad Thing. Especially considering both films were made so close to the grand finale of the Cold War era.
But Avatar's theme of "humans harm the trees and the chipmunks and cut down magical forests to build strip malls" comes off, at first glance as eye-rolling propaganda from doe-eyed eco warriors. Most people are pretty cynical about "save the earth" messages because we are having such stuff shoved down our throats, and because issues over the environment are important yet not as simplistic or black and white as Nukes are Bad.
In short, "evil greedy humans who displace innocent Native American stand-ins to cut down their magical trees" is a tougher sell than "kiss your ass goodbye, humanity's hobby of stockpiling nukes finally backfired." The Cameron defense force needs to realize this.
That said it's all in the execution. The positive feedback does suggest the film may overcome these issues for a lot of viewers. It's still a tough job though and it may end up failing a lot of people.
Terminator 1 and 2 may be simple and hammed up but they center around a grim, apocalyptic theme that, frankly, most people seem able to believe in: that humanity is insane and poised to destroy itself. Even the arguably silly theme of killer robots is easier to swallow because Skynet and the Evil Machines seem more like a punishment for sins that the average person can believe are legitimate.
So in short, everyone agrees: humans are insane, nuclear war is a very real threat and just about everyone agrees it is a Bad Thing. Especially considering both films were made so close to the grand finale of the Cold War era.
But Avatar's theme of "humans harm the trees and the chipmunks and cut down magical forests to build strip malls" comes off, at first glance as eye-rolling propaganda from doe-eyed eco warriors. Most people are pretty cynical about "save the earth" messages because we are having such stuff shoved down our throats, and because issues over the environment are important yet not as simplistic or black and white as Nukes are Bad.
In short, "evil greedy humans who displace innocent Native American stand-ins to cut down their magical trees" is a tougher sell than "kiss your ass goodbye, humanity's hobby of stockpiling nukes finally backfired." The Cameron defense force needs to realize this.
That said it's all in the execution. The positive feedback does suggest the film may overcome these issues for a lot of viewers. It's still a tough job though and it may end up failing a lot of people.
Kaijima said:
Well, that, and the fact that I've never been a huge fan of Titanic. And I'm afraid I'm going to get to the end of AVATAR and feel the same way I did with Titanic: That's it? The truth is, I never liked how Titanic was written. Everything else about it was fantastic, but I felt the writing was pretty weak overall - and people simply saw through that because it was such a visual spectacle. And part of me is like, "You spent how much money on this?" and it just seems like a waste when what it's delivering isn't something that is truly memorable beyond how it visually looks.
*shrugs* But yeah, I think you've a good point and just wanted to add my 2 cents.
Vinci said:
Say what you want about it (I thought it was fairly sappy and clunky), but the Leo/Winslet connection hit a chord with a good many people in that movie. Certainly wasn't all about the visuals for the tons of women (and others) who cried at the end of Titanic.
It'll be amusing to see the hardcore conservative reaction to Avatar.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Gary Whitta said:
Holy shit, that was an incredible close call. I love how he fired the people almost responsible for his death afterwards.
polyh3dron
Banned
Oh don't worry about that, Rupert Murdoch will get Glenn Beck and Hannity to spin it like it reinforces conservative values.Zeliard said:
Jax said:
madara said:
Because as a person who wears glasses for driving and watching movies, which are incompatible (read: I can't wear them both) with the 3D glasses my cinema offers (which you have to pay for), I thought why not still go and enjoy the film in a version that is suitable for me.
Obviously I'm a dumbass for even considering such a thing.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Works for me, King Kong is still fucking awesome.border said:
- Status