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Rottenwatch: AVATAR (82%)

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Alright you knew it was coming, Name your top FIVE favorite scenes in the movie.

1)
When Neytiri holds human Jake for the first time and the "I see you" from each of them. Beautiful and very well executed. I was thinking how the hell is this CGI character holding him so....perfectly....still blows my fucking mind.

2)
Jake and Neytiri's first flight together. The backgrounds....holy fucking shit at the backgrounds

3)
The final battle against the humans. Best....third act.....EVER. No freaking contest. Helicopters vs Banshees put a smile on my face so large I don't even no where to begin. Even with all the character deaths, such as the death of the Trudy and the tribe leader, it was all very memorable.

4)
The death of the giant tree. I've never been more appalled at human actions in a film more so than this. This scene toyed with my emotions more so than any other scene in a film.

5)
Final battle with Quaritch. I both hate and love this guy. Love him for being an awesome villain, hate because of the lack of empathy he has for the Na'vi. In my theater when Neytiri finally killed him, they were applauding. The look of hatred she gave him before he died made me go...."holy shit"....out loud.

:D
 
Koodo said:
By the way, I have a small nitpick concerning the avatar program. The link is supposed to expend up to 10km, but doesn't Jake travel farther than that? 10km doesn't seem like much. :P

It's possible they set up access points around the planet. They would have had to for him to
visit the other clans
...
 
TacticalFox88 said:
4)
The death of the giant tree. I've never been more appalled at human actions in a film more so than this. This scene toyed with my emotions more so than any other scene in a film.
:D
Hmm...

Of the people here who've seen Dances with Wolves, Pochantas and The Last Samuria, do you consider Avatar better than all of them?
Pocahantas doesn't come close
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Alright you knew it was coming, Name your top FIVE favorite scenes in the movie.

1)
When Neytiri holds human Jake for the first time and the "I see you" from each of them. Beautiful and very well executed. I was thinking how the hell is this CGI character holding him so....perfectly....still blows my fucking mind.

2)
Jake and Neytiri's first flight together. The backgrounds....holy fucking shit at the backgrounds

3)
The final battle against the humans. Best....third act.....EVER. No freaking contest. Helicopters vs Banshees put a smile on my face so large I don't even no where to begin. Even with all the character deaths, such as the death of the Trudy and the tribe leader, it was all very memorable.

4)
The death of the giant tree. I've never been more appalled at human actions in a film more so than this. This scene toyed with my emotions more so than any other scene in a film.

5)
Final battle with Quaritch. I both hate and love this guy. Love him for being an awesome villain, hate because of the lack of empathy he has for the Na'vi. In my theater when Neytiri finally killed him, they were applausing. The look of hatred she gave him before he died made me go...."holy shit"....out loud.

:D

Lol, same as mine except replace 1 with...

Either when they are climbing the place/floating rocks to get to the Ikhram (this scene gave me vertigo lol). Or when Jake and Nytiri are together with her teaching him and she goes along and jumps off that massive log using the plants as stepping falling platforms.
 
John Dunbar said:
Apparently Avatar made another 16.4 million on Monday, only 32 or so percent drop from Sunday.

Haha, I was going to predict $16 mil Monday this morning but thought against it after my real $550 mil prediction since people would think I'm just messing around.
 
Charred Greyface said:
Hmm...

Of the people here who've seen Dances with Wolves, Pochantas and The Last Samuria, do you consider Avatar better than all of them?
Pocahantas doesn't come close
Those movies suck compared to Avatar.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Alright you knew it was coming, Name your top FIVE favorite scenes in the movie.

:D

1.
Jake and Neytiri's first flight. Pure, unadulterated exhiliration and wonder captured perfectly. When Neytiri turns to Jake and smiles I knew Cameron had succeeded on every promise he made. Sent a chill up my spine. My favorite scene in any movie this year.

2.
The entirety of the final action setpiece. This is a 10 minute masterpiece of action in every facet from scope to pacing to hitting all the right emotional beats to framing and composition. This sequence will give Cameron's contemporaries nightmares for years to come.

3.
Jake and Neytiri's first encounter. Its so fun and playful ("you're like a baby"), and the backdrop is this gorgeous bioluminescent forest at night. This sequence really nailed the sense of exploration in Pandora and the beauty within in. Great music in this scene, too.

4.
The destruction of Home Tree. Visually arresting and completely devastating. Its the low of the movie, but its tremendously powerful. There were a lot of shots in this scene that were so effecting, like a mother cradling a dead child, Home Tree laying in ruin, and the complete devastation of the people.

5.
"I See You". When Neytiri rescues human Jake and saves his life. Effects-wise, its mindboggling how they pulled this off. Emotionally, it was a masterstroke ("my Jake"). Beautiful.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Alright you knew it was coming, Name your top FIVE favorite scenes in the movie.

:D

Right now I'll just repost what I said earlier, but the posts are helping me remember a lot of the other great stuff. I'll remove one of them though to make it a top five.

- I'm sentimental and love romance in action movies so a I loved Neytiri & Jake in the trailer saying "I see you" and still loving each other despite the physical difference. Love that whole scene.
- Jake's first night in Pandora & our first view of Pandora at night.
- Neytiri blaming Jake for her killing the predators because he was too loud "You're like a babee!"
- Jake being so excited to walk he runs out of the clinic & also gets respect from Grace. How characters evolve to like each other (or not) is done really well- again not cliched.
- I really did like the way the battle played out. I would have been upset if they went with a LOTR style that dragged on and on as I would have never bought the idea that it was an even match.
I liked how quickly everything started to fall apart once the ground troop marines came on the scene and the surprise attack by the Na'vi was done and then Pandora coming to the rescue.
It went from doubt, hope, despair, hope, victory!!!
 
Charred Greyface said:
Hmm...

Of the people here who've seen Dances with Wolves, Pochantas and The Last Samuria, do you consider Avatar better than all of them?
Pocahantas doesn't come close

I liked Avatar but it really is a mash up of Dances With Wolves, Pocahontas, The Last Samurai and Ferngully. Aside from the beautiful setting, I don't think it does all that much to separate itself from other white-man-goes-native stories.
 
1. Jake wakes up from euthanasia. The two officals saying "you'll be making a difference" while his brother's being cremated. Atmosphere makes me realize this is our 2001, in terms of technical evolution.

2. Jake speaks with colonel badass. Colonel is pretty awesome. The scene is phenomenal.
2dt7i4i.jpg


3. When Neytiri stalks Jake. Followed by the those awesome floating things.
4. This:
AVT03.jpg


Just look at that. That's the kind of stuff imagination is made of. JC delivers many times fold.

5. The ocassions where human and na'vi directly interact. i.e. Jake carries Grace, Neytiri holds Jake, or when Jake leaves his body forever.
 
I'm not a practicing religious person by any stretch but I had a passing thought on the way into work:

What if Pandora is a place where
the Children there were never forced out of Eden and as a result, they maintained their connection to nature, their deity and their surroundings? It would explain that, because her children value their world, Eywa values her children in return. The circle was never broken on Pandora as it was on Earth.

It's probably just silly thoughts but it passed through my head on the way in.

Thoughts?
 
ryutaro's mama said:
I'm not a practicing religious person by any stretch but I had a passing thought on the way into work:

What if Pandora is a place where
the Children there were never forced out of Eden and as a result, they maintained their connection to nature, their deity and their surroundings? It would explain that, because her children value their world, Eywa values her children in return. The circle was never broken on Pandora as it was on Earth.

It's probably just silly thoughts but it passed through my head on the way in.

Thoughts?

Probably not, just because of Grace's comments about this being real, unlike all the other 'sacred' nonsense throughout history.
 
A civilization still in Eden would not know about fucking or evil or killing animals because they never would have tasted the fruit of knowledge.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
What if Pandora is a place where
the Children there were never forced out of Eden and as a result, they maintained their connection to nature, their deity and their surroundings? It would explain that, because her children value their world, Eywa values her children in return. The circle was never broken on Pandora as it was on Earth.

It's probably just silly thoughts but it passed through my head on the way in.

Thoughts?
Well, according to the Pandorapedia: "it is hypothesized that there was little Darwinian pressure to adapt new traits. Indeed, studies indicate that the number of Na'vi have remained remarkably consistent over the eons. The widespread access to natural resources has also helped limit (but not eliminate) warfare among the various Na'vi clans."

So, it does fit.
 
Count Dookkake said:
Probably not, just because of Grace's comments about this being real, unlike all the other 'sacred' nonsense throughout history.

I guess what I'm eluding to is,
what if it WAS real on our world prior to Adam and Eve leaving Eden?And the apple and snake were metaphors for how the bond was broken?

Again, like I said, just passing thoughts.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
3)
The final battle against the humans. Best....third act.....EVER. No freaking contest. Helicopters vs Banshees put a smile on my face so large I don't even no where to begin. Even with all the character deaths, such as the death of the Trudy and the tribe leader, it was all very memorable.

4)
The death of the giant tree. I've never been more appalled at human actions in a film more so than this. This scene toyed with my emotions more so than any other scene in a film.
:D
IMO, District 9 had
a better third act with the final showdown in the slum
and
had far greater emotional impact with the entire story especially with the weapons testing. I felt sick just watching it.
 
Combine said:
Well, according to the Pandorapedia: "it is hypothesized that there was little Darwinian pressure to adapt new traits. Indeed, studies indicate that the number of Na'vi have remained remarkably consistent over the eons. The widespread access to natural resources has also helped limit (but not eliminate) warfare among the various Na'vi clans."

So, it does fit.

Lack of 'Darwinian pressure' does not rule out evolution.

See also: sharks.

ryutaro's mama said:
I guess what I'm eluding to is,
what if it WAS real on our world prior to Adam and Eve leaving Eden?And the apple and snake were metaphors for how the bond was broken?

Again, like I said, just passing thoughts.

That is an interesting take. A bit of the old xenospermia and panspermia concepts. Could work.

It does remind me of some ideas I pondered for the sequel.

Could the plants be modified to help or conquer earth? Could they be used as spying devices or communication devices over great spans of distance?
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Euthanasia kills you....

it's because I was reading this:

in the event of a failure of the cryosleep system the passengers would be euthanized before awakening

On Pandorapedia at the moment

:lol
 
Count Dookkake said:
Probably not, just because of Grace's comments about this being real, unlike all the other 'sacred' nonsense throughout history.

I thought this was one of the most interesting parts of the movie, that the Na'vi "deity" is in fact very real and very measurable. Faith doesn't come into play with it at all. The humans, both in the movie and the audience, don't really understand that at first because we're all looking at it from a human perspective, where there is never any direct evidence for these kinds of things. Even when the Na'vi are
gathered and "praying" for Grace and then Jake towards the end, they're all biologically connected to the earth via those hair nerves.
 
At the same time I think Eywa IS a traditional deity to an extent as well.
Think about the animals
. I think it's a combination of both extremes, to be honest.
 
chaoticprout said:
At the same time I think Eywa IS a traditional deity to an extent as well.
Think about the animals
. I think it's a combination of both extremes, to be honest.

It really is. Yes, Grace measured it in a scientific, quanitifiable way, but theres no doubting that the Na'Vi are an extremely spiritual people too. Hell, listen to most of Neytiri's dialogue.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Jake "prayed" for her to guide them through, so technically it does require some faith, though the faith is based on reality.

That's not what humans call
prayer
, though. It has some superficial similarities, but this is something real and quantifiable, at least within the confines of the movie.
 
I'm thrilled with the success of this film. I don't know why, but it just makes me happy. Love the message it sends to support original concepts in the blockbuster field. I'm also thrilled that James Cameron's going to be given whatever budget he wants, and seems to be back into films for the considerable future. He hasn't lost anything, not that I expected he would, and that's a great sign considering the falloff of his generation of filmmakers people argue about.

That said, I liked Avatar a lot, but it fell just short of my expectations. The characters never did anything special for me though I enjoyed them. The colonel was my favorite character of the bunch. And though I expected the plot to be cliche - I did think it would be executed as perfectly as it could be. Instead, it feels like slightly too big of a film even for its 2 hours 40 minutes runtime.

All said, the visuals blew me away, and their sheer vision is impressive. What they accomplished is incredible, but I don't agree that Neytiri is the most impressive CG character ever. Gollum in my opinion, is still the most successful for the emotional, narrative weight he carried. His success all come from the performance, and his animation. That really won't be surpassed because of technology. On the technical side though, Neytiri is a triumph, and also a very good character in the realm of live-action CG characters.

Cameron's directing is also nothing short of spectacular in all respects. I came away 90% fulfilled on expectations. My friend kind of got uppity, and started sighing during the ending - that was quite annoying. The 2 friends I went with (sunday night) didn't enjoy it that much. Of the two, one was very hyped for the movie. He's a sci-fi nerd and I think he went in hoping for something he made up in his head.

All of us went to the 15-minute preview back in the summer, and came away extremely impressed. I wished I hadn't gone to that now, because I do think I was waiting for those scenes to come on the screen, to get to that uncharted territory. The Dark Knight's preview screening was much more to my liking I realize after experience the two, in showing only the first 7 minute. That was enough to get you excited. I think it affected my 2 friends, because they came out of that screening buzzing - something I didn't see that night. It's the difference between being caught completely off guard, and expecting to be even more blown away to a further degree.

We would have gone to opening night showing, but I just got back from college this Friday. The film was worth the wait, I think it's a great step forward after the decade of the blockbuster sequels. That will obviously continue, but I'm just glad that James Cameron is back in the game. He's always going to be pushing the envelope.I'm looking forward to seeing it again. Just a couple days after my Sunday night screening, I'm anticipating it again. I may bring some family along, who seem to be very curious about a film that normally wouldn't be up any of their alleys. The word of mouth and media are doing a hell of a job creating a (well-deserved) buzz about the film.

I think a sequel to this, helmed by James Cameron, could be absolutely spectacular. My only problem, and this is why I will be avoiding the Star Wars comparisons, is that I don't think Avatar has the characters to really support the franchise as the height of blockbuster films that it should be. The story was predictable in this film, but you can fix that with a sequel. This film had a lot to establish, and sets up well. But if Cameron really wants this to be his Star Wars, he should have been more considerate in creating characters we desperately want to come back to. Especially in Jake Sully, who is a generically ballsy vehicle of a character.

Instead, a sequel is all on his shoulders to create spectacle again, to bring audiences back.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing it again, which I hope to do sometime this week. I don't want to go back to college (car-less) without a second screening of this.
 
well I came back from the XD 3D viewing, but the theater just gave us the regular Real 3D glasses. I thought they came with special glasses with a battery and them being heavier and stuff. Hope I didn't get ripped off...

Also I remember reading in this thread about some 'cheesy scene' with cheesy lines. What scene was that? I recall a few that could be candidates but nothing too substantial
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Jake "prayed" for her to guide them through, so technically it does require some faith, though the faith is based on reality.

No, actually, Jake
told Eywa to look into Grace's memories, etc. He was asking for help because he believed. He was beyond the point of faith at that point. He already recognized Eywa as being real.
 
Like Grace said, what the Na'Vi believe in couldn't be further from the voodoo mumbo-jumbo talked about currently in this thread. :P
 
I wish there was something else I could sink my teeth into. There is a "field guide" and a children's novel, but thats about it. The art book might be good.
 
After posting the second biggest December opening in history, James Cameron's Avatar showed no signs of slowing as it grossed an astonishing $16.4M on Monday, a huge figure for a non-summer weekday. The Fox hit has now taken in an amazing $93.4M in just four days and will shatter the $100M mark in only five days.

The figure more than doubled the $7.5M that I Am Legend grossed in its first Monday in December of 2007. That film still holds the opening weekend record for the month with $77.2M but reached a smaller $84.7M in its first four days.

Overall, Avatar surged to the third largest non-holiday Monday ever behind only The Dark Knight's $24.5M and Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest's $18.1M. Both of those were in July on the fourth day of release immediately following an all-time record-breaking opening weekend. They were also in the summer when all students were out of school. On Avatar's Monday, a very large share of students had no class but some were still in school. Normally, Monday would need to be Memorial Day or some other major holiday in order to post a gross like this.

The Pandora extravaganza is already showing strong legs and could finish its first full week of release in the neighborhod of $125M. Tuesday and Wednesday should continue to show strength while the entire marketplace is expected to soften on Thursday as Christmas Eve is always a slower day with many theaters closing early. But Cameron will not be waiting up for Santa as his gift (and a big sigh of relief) came early.
http://boxofficeguru.com/122209.htm

Third only to two record-breaking summer debuts....
 
jett said:
Like Grace said, what the Na'Vi believe in couldn't be further from the voodoo mumbo-jumbo talked about currently in this thread. :P

I love that Cameron made sure to make that point clear.

Guardian Bob said:
I wish there was something else I could sink my teeth into. There is a "field guide" and a children's novel, but thats about it. The art book might be good.

The art book is kind of disappointing. The images are nice, but it doesn't seem as in-depth as the art books for the various Star Wars films. I am hoping for a nice making-of book eventually.

FWIW, the DS game is a decent Zelda clone.
 
Guardian Bob said:
I wish there was something else I could sink my teeth into. There is a "field guide" and a children's novel, but thats about it. The art book might be good.
Gonna have to wait for Jim to write the novel. Sounds like he hadn't even started it yet, so it'll probably take some time too, especially since he'll be doing other stuff in the meantime as well.
 
Saw it and loved it. Best movie, Ive seen all year.

Question, not sure if anyone else noticed but my roommate said Jake's avatar had 5 fingers while Neytira and other Navi only had 4? Weird, and surprised that he actually counted during the movie...
 
Jetman said:
Saw it and loved it. Best movie, Ive seen all year.

Question, not sure if anyone else noticed but my roommate said Jake's avatar had 5 fingers while Neytira and other Navi only had 4? Weird, and surprised that he actually counted during the movie...
Yeah I noticed that on second viewing. Interesting.
 
Jetman said:
Saw it and loved it. Best movie, Ive seen all year.

Question, not sure if anyone else noticed but my roommate said Jake's avatar had 5 fingers while Neytira and other Navi only had 4? Weird, and surprised that he actually counted during the movie...
Yeah, I noticed this in the trailers, but they didn't make note of it at all in the movie.
 
Jetman said:
Saw it and loved it. Best movie, Ive seen all year.

Question, not sure if anyone else noticed but my roommate said Jake's avatar had 5 fingers while Neytira and other Navi only had 4? Weird, and surprised that he actually counted during the movie...

He might have read it on the intarwebs. Na'Vi also have bigger eyes than the Avatars.
 
jett said:
He might have read it on the intarwebs. Na'Vi also have bigger eyes than the Avatars.
Yeah, the eyes and the fingers are apparently the two major differences between Na'vi and Avatar, according to the 'pedia:
The cloned avatar has the body structure and physiology of a Pandoran native. However, adding the human genes necessary to create the mental linking ability to the avatar's genetic makeup altered the anatomy to the extent of producing five digits (different from the normal four on a Na'vi) on the hands and feet, and reducing the size of the eyeballs. The reason for this is not yet known.
 
nib95 said:
Awesome! This close up of Jakes roaring face is just sublime. I mean fuck man....

4054023555_b99ef4f041_b.jpg

Are these sculpted in 3D, like Gollum? (something about doing it in frames and muscle work like in real life)I read ones that deaf people could actually read his lips because of this tech. (normally you can't with cgi characters)

Anyone know this?
 
sinnergy said:
Are these sculpted in 3D, like Gollum? (something about doing it in frames and muscle work like in real life)I read ones that deaf people could actually read his lips because of this tech. (normally you can't with cgi characters)

Anyone know this?

They would have made Maquettes and then scanned them, like Gollum and pretty much every movie CG character out there.

Sculpting them in 3D (zbrush) is reserved for games.

Each character would have have had weeks just rigging the face, so I've no idea how they managed to do so much in Avatar.
 
chaoticprout said:
At the same time I think Eywa IS a traditional deity to an extent as well.
Think about the animals
. I think it's a combination of both extremes, to be honest.

Actually, that can be explained scientifically too.

Since the entire planet is connected & this was Pandora's first real attack, the planet as a whole responded to the attack. Think of it as white blood cells taking care of an intruder. Pandora/Eywa felt the pain and responded in kind. The Na'vi looked at it from a faith/religious perspective, but the response was purely biological. Neytiri was incorrect thinking that Eywa wouldn't respond because there was never a time the planet had to come together against a common foe.

So Eywa is a deity only in the sense that mother nature is one imo. As I mentioned before, this was one of the most scientific sci-fi movies I've ever seen.
 
vehn said:
well I came back from the XD 3D viewing, but the theater just gave us the regular Real 3D glasses. I thought they came with special glasses with a battery and them being heavier and stuff. Hope I didn't get ripped off...

Also I remember reading in this thread about some 'cheesy scene' with cheesy lines. What scene was that? I recall a few that could be candidates but nothing too substantial

Batteries? HUH? I know the Dobly Digital 3-D glasses are heavy as hell but that's just because they stay at the theater and you can't take them home like the real d glasses which are basically just a cheap pair of sunglasses that can be kept or recycled by the user.
 
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