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[brandonh83]

Cameron has sighted both movies as influences, however a film is so much more than the bases of the plot, as much as I love both of those films, they are completely unlike Avatar, and my experience of them are totally different.

That's accurate. I'm not disputing that there aren't plot similarities, but I think plenty of films share plot similarities, but when you incorporate art direction, tonality, atmosphere, character nuance, setting, genre, etc. you end up with two completely different films.

Don't forget that "Costner" has exactly the same letters in his name as "Worthington" (if you don't count the last 4 letters).

:lol

 

[StuBurns]

That's accurate. I'm not disputing that there aren't plot similarities, but I think plenty of films share plot similarities, but when you incorporate art direction, tonality, atmosphere, character nuance, setting, genre, etc. you end up with two completely different films.

I don't disagree. I only mentioned your post because I just thought someone implying a sci-fi Dances with Wolves is a negative was strange, it's a great movie.

 

[Zeliard]

Well it's okay to compare one film to another because of certain things, but this is being used in a negative context, as in, it's completely ripping off DWW. It's like, Avatar's story might share some things in common but... uh... I don't recall DWW having groundbreaking technology, massive aerial battles, giant mechs... plot points may be similar, but not entirely. It's just really stupid to watch Avatar and then all you can say is "it's exactly like Dancing With Wolves." Is that really all you took from the entire experience?

I still think Simon Pegg said it best about Avatar's story, and in a tweet, no less:

"It's a familiar story but it needs broad mythological strokes to counterpoint the intense visuals. Narrative complexity would self defeat."

I don't really get people who get so hung up on the fact that it's telling a familiar story - as if every film released is telling a unique tale. There are some deep-seated archetypes that a great many movies and stories in general follow at the surface level, like the idea of the Byronic Hero. Plenty have criticized Avatar for various things, like Amir0x on this board, but I don't understand those who concentrate their criticisms solely on the basis of the plot.

It's basically like coming out of Star Wars in 1977 and doing nothing but complaining about the similarities to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. To each their own, I guess.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I don't think people really wanted a complex story out of Avatar. I think that they just wanted something that didn't go EXACTLY the way that you expect it. I don't knock Avatar for that, but I can understand why the story would underwhelm some people.

Edit: And actually, I think that having a really familiar story complements the theme of the movie nicely; it's about re-examining what you think you know and seeing in a new light.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think people really wanted a complex story out of Avatar. I think that they just wanted something that didn't go EXACTLY the way that you expect it. I don't knock Avatar for that, but I can understand why the story would underwhelm some people.

Most people who loved the film also found the base storyline to be predictable and unoriginal, including myself. I'm talking about the people who do nothing but focus on that, at the expense of everything else the movie does.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I still think Simon Pegg said it best about Avatar's story, and in a tweet, no less:

"It's a familiar story but it needs broad mythological strokes to counterpoint the intense visuals. Narrative complexity would self defeat."

Which is astute, especially since Cameron has also said the same thing about why he decided to go with this story. He wanted people to have a familiar element to hold onto while he fucked their eyeballs.

I'm paraphrasing.

 

[brandonh83]

It's basically like coming out of Star Wars in 1977 and doing nothing but complaining about the similarities to Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. To each their own, I guess.

Thank you, that's the film I was trying to think of earlier when I was in said debate. I said something like "well Star Wars was really similar, plot-wise, to another film by Kurosawa but they were still very different" but couldn't remember the title to save my life.

 

[jett]

Man, there's a BUNCH of finished, rendered scenes in the Pandora Revealed trailer that weren't used in the movie. I can't imagine they were done just for that video. Avatar: Director's Cut plz.

Alrighty, going to see this for my second time with my Sister and her Boyfriend tonight.
The nearest RealD screen is 10 miles away, while the Dolby3D theater is literally down the street.

All RealD screens are the same right?
It's like a guaranteed quality type of thing?
I can vouch for my locla D3D theater, I saw My Bloody Valentine there.. I'm just a little iffy on the extra drive to a theater I have no experience with...
I typically don't associate the town it's in with really nice theaters, but it's on the RealD theater finder map.

Quality may vary from theater to theater, it's not guaranteed. They may also use different projectors. I recommend sticking with what you know. If you had a good Dolby3D experience, you will probably have a good time with Avatar there. For what it's worth I've watched Avatar in RealD and Dolby3D and I may prefer Dolby by a small margin.

 

[StuBurns]

Which is astute, especially since Cameron has also said the same thing about why he decided to go with this story. He wanted people to have a familiar element to hold onto while he fucked their eyeballs.

I'm paraphrasing.

I agree, there has been a number of people in this thread who were confused about things that seem obvious, I'm not calling them idiots, because I'm quite sure if it had been in a 2D live action film, they'd probably have kept up much better.

I hope he challenges the storytelling next time, but for dipping his toe in the water this time, a standard, three act traditional love story worked great. I loved the film, and despite it not shocking me, I've still seen it three times, and will see it again at the cinema at least once. The truth is, a lot of people just don't like love stories, and it is at the heart of this film, it's not a kick ass sci-fi action movie, or at least, not primarily. I have no issue with that.

Man, there's a BUNCH of finished, rendered scenes in the Pandora Revealed trailer that weren't used in the movie. I can't imagine they were done just for that video. Avatar: Director's Cut plz.

Got a link?

 

[Zeliard]

Which is astute, especially since Cameron has also said the same thing about why he decided to go with this story. He wanted people to have a familiar element to hold onto while he fucked their eyeballs.

I'm paraphrasing.

That's basically it. What Cameron effectively did with Avatar was combo old-fashioned storytelling (the familiar plot points, the broad characters, the three-part arc) with NEW-fashioned storytelling (the tech).

Avatar's story is an old story, told many times before, but we've never experienced it in such a way. Not even close.

 

[jett]

I hope he challenges the storytelling next time, but for dipping his toe in the water this time, a standard, three act traditional love story worked great. I loved the film, and despite it not shocking me, I've still seen it three times, and will see it again at the cinema at least once. The truth is, a lot of people just don't like love stories, and it is at the heart of this film, it's not a kick ass sci-fi action movie, or at least, not primarily. I have no issue with that.


Got a link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBGDmin_38E

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

pretty sure all of that was in the movie

 

[TacticalFox88]

It boggles my mind that people are taking this Pocahontas of the Blue Injuns movie seriously. If there's one well-worn thematic trope I can't stand it's patronizing depictions of the magical savage, and this is probably the worst example of it I've ever seen. Also, when it comes to 3D, the attached previews alone (for some Shrek-y dragon movie) used the gimmick more tastefully and effectively.

Troll harder.

 

[Dead]

I saw the movie again today with my cousins. We saw it in Liemax

Surprisngly Liemax turned out to be the best way to see Avatar. The 3D was as clear as Real-D, as both are digital, and the screen retains the larger aspect ratio

If you have a Liemax, Id definitely recommend seeing it there.

 

[StuBurns]

pretty sure all of that was in the movie

There are I think two shots I don't remember from the film. I could be wrong however, there are over 3000 I believe.

 

[jett]

pretty sure all of that was in the movie

Plenty of stuff wasn't in the movie, like the thanator cubs and the group Na'Vi hunters riding off into some sort of RDA facility in the night.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Plenty of stuff wasn't in the movie, like the thanator cubs and the group Na'Vi hunters riding off into some sort of RDA facility in the night.

The thanator cubs were in the movie, I remember them.

 

[brandonh83]

pretty sure all of that was in the movie

I just got back from seeing it, and I sincerely recall every one of those shots being in the final cut. The Thanator cubs are, because Jake is narrating over the footage and I know for fact it's there.

 

[StuBurns]

Plenty of stuff wasn't in the movie, like the thanator cubs and the group Na'Vi hunters riding off into some sort of RDA facility in the night.

The cubs are in, in the voice over bit about energy being borrowed and repaid. I don't remember the Na'vi walking over the vine at 2:13 or the scene you mention at 2:40.

 

[itsgreen]

It boggles my mind that people are taking this Pocahontas of the Blue Injuns movie seriously. If there's one well-worn thematic trope I can't stand it's patronizing depictions of the magical savage, and this is probably the worst example of it I've ever seen. Also, when it comes to 3D, the attached previews alone (for some Shrek-y dragon movie) used the gimmick more tastefully and effectively.

I see you...

 

[jett]

Guess I didn't see the cubs. But the other scene is definitely not in the movie.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Plenty of stuff wasn't in the movie, like the thanator cubs and the group Na'Vi hunters riding off into some sort of RDA facility in the night.

the cubs were in the movie because I remember being surprised they made it in the film and the night scene

Spoiler

takes place when Jake is gathering the other Navi clans

 

[milkyjay20]

what a beautiful movie! i mean that in a literal sense. just gorgeous. to my eyes, it does for an alien world what jurassic park did for dinosaurs. 100 kajillion dollars well spent.

of course, the story is straight out of a screenplay template. i don't care though, because it also carries a strong anti-imperialist message.

 

[brandonh83]

The shot of the giant vines are in. That's when they're going to the

Spoiler

banshee nest

. It's an epic, unforgettable wide shot. It's there. And the shot of the riders at 2:40 is also in the final cut: it's when they're

Spoiler

recruiting the other clans.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It boggles my mind that people are taking this Pocahontas of the Blue Injuns movie seriously. If there's one well-worn thematic trope I can't stand it's patronizing depictions of the magical savage, and this is probably the worst example of it I've ever seen. Also, when it comes to 3D, the attached previews alone (for some Shrek-y dragon movie) used the gimmick more tastefully and effectively.

Translation: Hey everyone, I have a superior intellect because I "figured out" the inspiration for the film! Aren't you all proud of me? C'mon, now that I've shown the way, you can be a cool Guy like me and poo poo on AVATAR!!!Yay!

 

[brandonh83]

Guess I didn't see the cubs. But the other scene is definitely not in the movie.

It is, jett :lol

 

[StuBurns]

The shot of the giant vines are in. That's when they're going to the

Spoiler

banshee nest

. It's an epic, unforgettable wide shot.

I'll take your word on it being there, unforgettable on the other hand, I think I've proved that wrong.

 

[brandonh83]

I'll take your word on it being there, unforgettable on the other hand, I think I've proved that wrong.

It made my jaw drop on both screenings. It was unforgettable to me. It's a very long, breathtaking wide-shot with great music. One of my favorite shots in the entire film... but I guess in your case, it was forgettable, sure

 

[StuBurns]

It made my jaw drop on both screenings. It was unforgettable to me. It's a very long, breathtaking wide-shot with great music. One of my favorite shots in the entire film... but I guess in your case, it was forgettable, sure

Why are there only four Na'vi there?

EDIT: With another look, I remember the other shot, they're going to get the horse clan.

 

[jett]

I guess I have an excuse to see it again!

 

[PhoncipleBone]

Guess I didn't see the cubs. But the other scene is definitely not in the movie.

The Thanator cubs I thought were the cubs of those dog type things that Jake fought off with the torch. Perhaps a third viewing is in order.

 

[Krev]

If you're looking for a shot that actually isn't in the movie, look at the shot of the hatches closing on the AMP suits about 37 seconds into the teaser.

 

[brandonh83]

Why are there only four Na'vi there?

Because

Spoiler

it's the part where Neytiri, her brother, and another dude escorting the stupid scown go to the banshee nest

. Four of them go.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

That night riding scene is when they say "and the horseriders of the plains" as they're gathering all the different tribes for the final battle.

 

[Karma Kramer]

Yeah everything in that docu is in the movie... and yes Krev is right, the only shot I have seen thats not in the movie is the one with the hatches closing on the AMP suits

 

[StuBurns]

Because

Spoiler

it's the part where Neytiri, her brother, and another dude escorting the stupid scown to the banshee nest

. Four of them go.

There are more than four Na'vi in that scene. Jake, Neytiri, Tsu'Tey, two male Na'vi and a female. But Neytiri flies there I believe, doesn't travel on foot with the others.

 

[brandonh83]

There are more than four Na'vi in that scene. Jake, Neytiri, Tsu'Tey, two male Na'vi and a female. But Neytiri flies there I believe, doesn't travel on foot with the others.

Ah okay. I'm just talking about the shots where they're actually traveling to the nest.

 

[StuBurns]

Ah okay. I'm just talking about the shots where they're actually traveling to the nest.

Looking at it again, you see four of them in a scene that just after, so there must be one extra male and one female and Neytiri must have flown there. I'm just confused because when he gets the banshee I thought there were two guy's next to Tsu'Tey, I guess it was one male and one female.

I already need this on disc so I can check this kind of thing.

 

[Dead]

Man, I really think the entire final battle might be the single best Action setpiece of the decade

It totally destroys any of the ones in LOTR, I can't think of any movie atm which tops it. Its so well shot, well constructed, heart racing.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

Yeah everything in that docu is in the movie... and yes Krev is right, the only shot I have seen thats not in the movie is the one with the hatches closing on the AMP suits

isn't this shot cut from the movie as well or did I just not remember it?

 

[Karma Kramer]

I really don't remember that shot

 

[StuBurns]

isn't this shot cut from the movie as well or did I just not remember it?

I believe it is.

However the trailer has a shot of Jake with his arm over a link bed and I don't think that's in the movie, it might be right at the end though.

 

[Krev]

Man, I really think the entire final battle might be the single best Action setpiece of the decade

I think it is. An amazing, amazing sequence. 20 minutes felt like 5.

I believe it is.

However the trailer has a shot of Jake with his arm over a link bed and I don't think that's in the movie, it might be right at the end though.

It is, right at the end, just before

Spoiler

Jake makes his final log

.

Yeah everything in that docu is in the movie... and yes Krev is right, the only shot I have seen thats not in the movie is the one with the hatches closing on the AMP suits

Now that the shitstorm has cleared, I'll take this opportunity to say that the teaser is pretty fantastic. Yes, the 'this is great' moment and transition to the Avatar scenes is a bit awkward and was perhaps not the right way to introduce a mass audience to this world and concept, but as a whole it has a wonderful sense of mystery and awe to it, and the use of the 28 Days Later cue is inspired.

 

[Combine]

I believe it is.

However the trailer has a shot of Jake with his arm over a link bed and I don't think that's in the movie, it might be right at the end though.

It's in the movie

Spoiler

at the very end while he's making his final journal and mentions his "birthday", takes place after the scene where the humans board the Valkyrie to leave and just before the final scene

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Yeah, Jake with his arm on the transport bed is near the end.
beaten

 

[StuBurns]

It's in the movie

Spoiler

at the very end while he's making his final journal and mentions his "birthday", takes place after the scene where the humans board the Valkyrie to leave and just before the final scene

Yeah, thought it might be there, I don't remember it, but it's the logical place for it to be. Thanks.

I don't think I've seen anything that wasn't in the film then.

 

[Krev]

Yeah, thought it might be there, I don't remember it, but it's the logical place for it to be. Thanks.

I don't think I've seen anything that wasn't in the film then.

If you're looking for a shot that actually isn't in the movie, look at the shot of the hatches closing on the AMP suits about 37 seconds into the teaser.

.

 

[StuBurns]

Err, the shot of the hatches closing on the AMP suits maybe?

I think it's in the film.

 

[Dead]

Yeah, thought it might be there, I don't remember it, but it's the logical place for it to be. Thanks.

I don't think I've seen anything that wasn't in the film then.

The scene of Jake Sully in a bar on earth, from the beginning of the 2nd trailer was not in the movie at all

 

[StuBurns]

The scene of Jake Sully in a bar on earth, from the beginning of the 2nd trailer was not in the movie at all

Really? I thought it was when they 'flashback', two men come up to him at the bar, then it cuts to them in the room with him and his brother.