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Rugby World Cup 2015 |OT|
- Thread starter phisheep
- Start date
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It's looking like Tom Wood could be cited the contact with Liam Williams' head when he was on the ground. I saw his foot making contact when watching it live but didn't really think anything of it but having watched the replay (YouTube quality) there is a suggestion of him moving that way intentionally.
No idea what the IRB will say but they certainly need to be decisive about this, at the very least it was an incredibly reckless thing to do without looking where you're kicking.
England v Wales (The 2015 Rugby World Cup) - WHOLE GAME / FULL MATCH - Not amazing quality.
Vine - Even worse quality but it may be enough.
No idea what the IRB will say but they certainly need to be decisive about this, at the very least it was an incredibly reckless thing to do without looking where you're kicking.
England v Wales (The 2015 Rugby World Cup) - WHOLE GAME / FULL MATCH - Not amazing quality.
Vine - Even worse quality but it may be enough.
LiquidSolid
Member
I was a bit surprised none of the officials picked it up during the million replays of that incident. Even if it's a complete accident, he should be suspended for reckless play regardless.
Jean de Villiers is out of the RWC with a broken jaw and has announced his retirement. Sad to see a legend like him bow out like this.
Jean de Villiers is out of the RWC with a broken jaw and has announced his retirement. Sad to see a legend like him bow out like this.
Not excusing the officials as with something like that they should really be checking on the spot but the match had pretty much defended into chaos at that point.
I could see the foot making contact at the time but it looks far worse having watched it again. I don't see anyway that he'll avoid a ban for that and although you never know what players are thinking but it's very difficult to see that as anything except an intentional attack.
I could see the foot making contact at the time but it looks far worse having watched it again. I don't see anyway that he'll avoid a ban for that and although you never know what players are thinking but it's very difficult to see that as anything except an intentional attack.
Rayven_king
Member
knew it was gonna happen eventually, atleast we can now get our real center pairing back (deAllende and kriel)
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
New world rankings released.
Wales up to second, over Australia who go down to third.
England down to 6th pushing Ireland and SA up.
Wales up to second, over Australia who go down to third.
England down to 6th pushing Ireland and SA up.
LiquidSolid
Member
Even if he'd managed to hit the ball, it's still completely reckless to do near a downed player. I can't believe he hasn't even been cited, let alone suspended.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
the rankings change so ridiculously quickly it's hard to take them very seriously. I mean, Wales did great against england, but second... something is wrong here.
LiquidSolid
Member
They're updated once a week, what exactly is wrong with that?
Succinct Verbosity
Member
Not really? Rankings update on a Monday, and the reason Wales jumped Australia is because they toppled a team rated higher in the rankings, whereas Australia haven't played the two other big teams in their group yet.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Hook and Anscombe called into Wales squad.
Being as Amos (wing) and Scott Williams (centre) are down and out, we bring in two fly-halves? Makes sense if we are going to love-bomb Australia with drop goals I suppose.
Being as Amos (wing) and Scott Williams (centre) are down and out, we bring in two fly-halves? Makes sense if we are going to love-bomb Australia with drop goals I suppose.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I like the way Hook plays rugby, and it's almost criminal how underutilised he's been. Still, I guess that just shows how competative welsh rugby has been the last few years.
Part of the reason they change so quickly at times is because the IRB uses a points exchange system, so the winning team takes points directly from the losing team. The amount of points change hands are also doubled in World Cup matches so changes in position do happen quicker during this competition.
I really thought that he would be cited due to doing something that was so dangerous but they've opted not to do that, having read the full ruling what the IRB have stated is that the standard procedure for citing during the World Cup is that a player will only be cited if they receive a red card or three yellow cards during the competition.
Because they've ignored the potential dangers in what he did, he can essentially do the same thing twice again before they're willing to cite him for it as he'll then have been issued with three yellow cards in the competition.
I don't understand why they've ignored the dangers in what he did but I do think it reflects really on the competition that somebody can do that exact thing three times before the IRB is even willing to investigate a citation.
Huh? That makes no sense, and isn't how citing works at all, at least as far as I have always understood it. Also having just read the disciplinary statement and associated procedure PDF on the World Cup website I haven't seen anything so far to suggest Citing is is being handled any differently to normal here. Do you have a link to wherever it was you read this different procedure was used as I would be interested to read it?
From what I have read on the World Cup website at least, it confirms that a Warning is given after the game for any offence that would have warranted a yellow card during the game had the ref or one of his assistants caught it. It is equivalent to a Yellow card, and 3 yellows during the tournament will result in a disciplinary hearing which will usually lead to bans.
Citing only comes into effect where there was an offence committed that normally would have resulted in a red card during the game, as it did not fall within the spirit of the rules, usually due to the offence being judged as intentionally reckless or premeditated.
While we obviously don't know exactly what has been said inside the IRB about this incident, I suspect the decision to go with a warning for accidentally reckless play rather than a citation for intentionally reckless play came down to the argument that replays show he was looking at and attempting to play the ball when the incident occurred which is within the spirit of the rules, and that when reviewing the available footage of the incident it looks like his view of the position of Williams's body and head was obscured by Dan Biggar jumping across in front of him, over the top of Williams as he began to kick for the ball.
LiquidSolid
Member
Nadolo getting a one match suspension for that soft "dangerous tackle" against Australia (which the ref thought was only worth a penalty), while Wood gets a slap on the wrist for kicking someone in the head is unbelievable. The judicial system has been a joke for years, this is just the latest instance of it.
It's from the statement issued by the IRB's judicial team, the citing commissioner can be requested by a union to rule on an incident but a ban requires a judicial hearing...
Disciplinary update - Tom Wood (England)
There has been questions asked about why they were treated so differently when the Tom Wood incident was so dangerous in it's own right.
Disciplinary update - Tom Wood (England)
...which is strange as Nemani Nadolo and Valentin Ursache have both been cited for being in breach of law 10.4. Although they broke subset 1 Law 10.4(j) (Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground) and 10.4(e) (Dangerous tackling) respectively.IRB said:
There has been questions asked about why they were treated so differently when the Tom Wood incident was so dangerous in it's own right.
I can only assume it comes down to the interpretation of "intent" within the rules and guidelines that are set. Ultimately, in any tackle if you lift and drop, or tackle high, there really isn't much you can do or say to defend or appeal it if the citing commissioner decides to go after you, as it is a clear breach of the rules that all players should be aware of. Its also been reiterated a lot in the English commentary that dangerous tackles are a really hot topic with the rule makers in the IRB this World Cup, so I do wonder if there is a degree of example setting going on in those cases.
In the case of Wood, the only explanation I can come up with (and even I admit its a pretty loose explanation, but its the only thing I can think of having re-watched that clip countless times, pausing and frame by framing it) is that as I mentioned previously Dan Biggar went right over the top of Williams directly obscuring Wood's eyeline for the entire duration of the swing of his leg for his kick at the ball.
As such, even if they had cited and suspended him, I suspect he would have almost certainly won an appeal and been reinstated in time for the Australia game (an appeal has to be lodged within 48h of the citing, and a final decision given no later than 72h after the appeal is lodged) on the basis that his view was obscured which would have made an even larger joke of the whole situation than just giving him a warning and a yellow card strike on his record in the first place has done.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
I am in a total quandary over who to support next Saturday.
Australia? So that England gets knocked out? That would be good.
England? So that (a) the Wales match has real meat to it and (b) we might have a chance of beating England AGAIN in the final (if they get that far). That would be even nicer.
But then, supporting England kind of goes against the grain ...
Australia? So that England gets knocked out? That would be good.
England? So that (a) the Wales match has real meat to it and (b) we might have a chance of beating England AGAIN in the final (if they get that far). That would be even nicer.
But then, supporting England kind of goes against the grain ...
You probably need to wait and see what happens in the game with Fiji on Thursday. They are a dangerous team that are often underestimated (ranked 10th in the world right now). With them coming off 9 days rest and looking at the Welsh injury list and their short turnaround, plus the memory of beating Wales last time they met in the 2007 tournament i expect them to be well up for causing another upset in that game.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Dammit Slacka, the Australia/England speculation was intended to take my mind off precisely that possibility! Now you got me remembering 1964 as well as 2007.
bobnowhere
Member
Wycliffe Palu and Will Skelton are both out of the WC for the Wallabies, to be replaced by James Hanson (3rd Hooker) and Sam Carter (Lock) who should have been in the team all along.
As an Irishman abroad who'll be travelling cross-atlantic to the world cup in two days time I'm afraid I have to root for England vs Australia. Sorry Aussies.
It's just that having the hosts knocked out early would really muck things up at fan zones and the like, and from what I've heard from family and friends England are putting on a great tournament at the moment and I don't want it to feel like a funeral by the time I arrive.
It's just that having the hosts knocked out early would really muck things up at fan zones and the like, and from what I've heard from family and friends England are putting on a great tournament at the moment and I don't want it to feel like a funeral by the time I arrive.
Succinct Verbosity
Member
I don't know if anybody who has seen this, but this made me laugh quite a lot:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=21&v=G3Ln3ZSCt_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=21&v=G3Ln3ZSCt_M
That is amazing.
LiquidSolid
Member
I'm not that familiar with most of the English players but that seems like a defensively weaker midfield than the one that played Wales, no? Not exactly a change I'd make when going up against Australia.
Also, I woke up early today because for some dumb reason I thought Wales were playing Fiji this morning. Stupid time zones.
SomedayTheFire
Member
On paper maybe, in real life? It has to be better than what went up against Wales.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Maybe one-on-one, but I suspect considerably stronger in terms of the shape and structure of the defence. Maybe I'm biased, but I'm not a great fan of parachuting League players in - no matter what their personal skills - if it means also playing others out of position to accommodate them.
EDIT: How tall is Matthew Morgan? BBC says 170 cm, Wikipedia says 172 cm, WRU says 173 cm - or is he still a growing lad?
Although I never want to see people suffer injuries, when it does happen it can really give other players a chance. I'm a big fan of Matthew Morgan, he's a really entertaining player to watch and I just hope that he's a player that benefits from being put in a World Cup style environment.
Some people really thrive in high pressure environments like this whereas others seem to withdrawal when they play.
Some people really thrive in high pressure environments like this whereas others seem to withdrawal when they play.
LiquidSolid
Member
Fair points, I just thought Barritt's defence has been pretty poor over the last two games, especially in the Welsh game where he kept rushing out too far from the defensive line. Sure, he was out of position, but they were still really poor mistakes.
As for Leaguies pushing out other players, I think it depends on the player and position. SBW went back to League from 2013 to 2014, only returned to Rugby late last year and was brought straight back into the ABs. He hasn't been in the best of form (mostly due to injuries) and has had plenty of detractors but he's been the best AB on the park over the last two games, so most of those have shut up. The guy he's keeping out of the squad, Crotty, is a handy player but nothing really special, so I've had no complaints with him making the team, even when he was in poor form, because I knew he could deliver like he did for the Chiefs in 2012.
For Burgess, it just seems like they've tried to rush him into the midfield in the quickest amount of time possible, even though they're probably the most difficult to defend positions in the team. If he played in a simpler position, like say blindside flanker or outside back, I think he might've adjusted in enough time, but turning him into a world class midfielder in less than a year? Pure idiocy. If he was meant to be the English SBW then they completely ignored the fact that SBW spent 2 years at Toulon under Tana Umaga's eye long before he came back to NZ and even then, his best season was in 2012, 2 years after he came back to NZ.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Exactly. That's why he plays flanker for his club!
SomedayTheFire
Member
Yep Burgess is just a clueless centre at the minute. He would shine at flanker
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