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Rumble Roses developer comments on X360 and PS3
- Thread starter Kleegamefan
- Start date
Lunar Aura said:
I'm not asking question, just thinking with what we have at hand now. Of course the PS3 could launch later and blabla etc. How many "could" did you thought about for the 360?
What if sales are bad this Christmas? What if during that exact time, some PS3 playable games are shown and kick serious ass? I mean, all those questions are useless right now because we can endlessly formulate "coulds".
Also, i never thought Sony can't mess up. We can discuss about that if you want. There's stuff that Sony have to do correctly and one of the most important is their launch price.
As for the online services, i never believed in Xbox live. It never saved my gaming and it only pleased 10% of gamers out there. So guess what -- online services won't affect much the war. And i hope Sony will keep it free (also as Nintendo seems to target free services)
fortified_concept
Banned
Speevy said:
"You called?"
I've no problem at all believing that PS3 can do something that Xbox 360 can't do, because Cell is more powerful than XeCPU in most situations. I've no doubt about that.
But it's interesting to see that on this forum if Carmack says good things about the 360 the reaction from most of the people around is "teh biased!", "MS paid him!", etc., while the good words related to PS3 from a Konami producer are considered perfectly reliable.
Looking at the support they've given to PS2 and Xbox and at the titles announced for the next-gen consoles, I'd say the producers at Konami can easily be more biased than Carmack, since Sony is a precious partner for them.
I wonder if a Konami producer ever said "there are some things you can do with the Xbox than you cannot with the PS2"...
But it's interesting to see that on this forum if Carmack says good things about the 360 the reaction from most of the people around is "teh biased!", "MS paid him!", etc., while the good words related to PS3 from a Konami producer are considered perfectly reliable.
Looking at the support they've given to PS2 and Xbox and at the titles announced for the next-gen consoles, I'd say the producers at Konami can easily be more biased than Carmack, since Sony is a precious partner for them.
I wonder if a Konami producer ever said "there are some things you can do with the Xbox than you cannot with the PS2"...
fortified_concept
Banned
Cuth said:
Well everyone was screaming "teh biased" for Jaffe too. You forgot to mention that. And there's a difference between a PC developer with strong ties with MS (like most of them) who has only worked and will work for Xbox and a developer who will probably develop for both consoles while currently working only on Xbox360 (I'm talking about Uchida not Konami as whole - Uchida doesn't represent Konami).
fortified_concept said:
it isnt as evident for carmack to praise Xenos as you'd think:
the guy has always been preceived as pro-nvidia afterall, and has had nv30 as its main dev platform for years.
He's allowed Nvidia to use Doom3 to sell every card they made between GF3 and GF6.
Furthermore he' uses OpenGL and hasnt used MS's DX9. I'd hardly call him an MS/ATI lapdog
Him praising an ATI part now because its closer to SM4.0 and WFG2.0 spec must have set some angry blood at Nvidia's offices.
Let's analyze this a little bit.
1. Sony has all the games. In Japan, they don't even have a release date yet have 100+ games being made for PS3. They have EVERY major title, including several that are exclusive in nature. MS, who has basically done everything it can to attempt to win the Japanese consumer, isn't even competition there. Sony will have, once again, 75+% of the Japanese market, and MS will be lucky to get 10%. Noone in Japan cares about 360, which means Japanese support will be average as a best case scenario.
2. Sony has far better marketing, as its generally excepted that MS and the 360 have been raped by the PS3 at both E3 and TGS now. Sony is good at making people believe in their product - and they have an excellent track record dating back to the PSX and the way they dethroned Nintendo. Like it or not, Sony knows marketing, and could sell ice to an eskimo. MS has the figurehead of big, bad geek Bill Gates, and is generally not trusted by consumers due to their questionable business practices. Take the additional fact that MS is ABANDONING the XBox, and they don't help their case much with consumers. I know the parents I talk to are mega-pissed that the XBox will not get any additional support. They bought one, and got hosed in their opinion.
3. Sony has the more powerful hardware. Arrange the numbers anyway you want but the PS3 is the more powerful piece of kit. By the XBots mouths, MS has managed to squander their head start in game development with crappy kits, and TO DATE, PS3 games look better than their 360 counterparts on average. I don't care what is video, what is games, etc... Graphics and animation matter early in a console's life. This is because only hardcore gamers buy at launch. Casuals will wait until the magical $199 price point, and cheap games are available. Most casuals I know will buy a $100-$149 PS2 this holiday with lots of $20 games over ANYTHING next-generation.
4. I think MS may close the gap in America and Europe, because if they are smart they will come in cheaper. However, given MS adamancy that they want to make money this time, it will be a long while before they offer the 360 at the $199 pricepoint. Sony, for better or worse, is willing to take risks and may come in at a price that is a lot closer to the 360 than many think. It's their technology, so they only have to recoup their research costs, and have always come it at a lower price than many predicted.
5. MS has the online advantage. However, the reality is that really doesn't mean much outside of the continental US. Maybe 50% of houses support broadband capability right now, although it is growing. Neither Europe or Japan has the infrastructure in place that the the US does currently either. Will this grow? Yes, but it takes time, and I know a lot of people who refuse to pay broadband prices. Not everyone is a techno-geek.
None of this matters to the average consumer for the next 3+ years anyway. To put it frankly, the market isn't ready for next-gen no matter how much MS wants to push it. Especially at the prices we are seeing. You can now buy a Dell PC for about the same price as a 360 or the PS3 for that matter. The casuals are not going to buy into this at those prices. And the hardcore gamers will buy anything - witness the 3DO, DC, Neo Geo, and Saturn.
1. Sony has all the games. In Japan, they don't even have a release date yet have 100+ games being made for PS3. They have EVERY major title, including several that are exclusive in nature. MS, who has basically done everything it can to attempt to win the Japanese consumer, isn't even competition there. Sony will have, once again, 75+% of the Japanese market, and MS will be lucky to get 10%. Noone in Japan cares about 360, which means Japanese support will be average as a best case scenario.
2. Sony has far better marketing, as its generally excepted that MS and the 360 have been raped by the PS3 at both E3 and TGS now. Sony is good at making people believe in their product - and they have an excellent track record dating back to the PSX and the way they dethroned Nintendo. Like it or not, Sony knows marketing, and could sell ice to an eskimo. MS has the figurehead of big, bad geek Bill Gates, and is generally not trusted by consumers due to their questionable business practices. Take the additional fact that MS is ABANDONING the XBox, and they don't help their case much with consumers. I know the parents I talk to are mega-pissed that the XBox will not get any additional support. They bought one, and got hosed in their opinion.
3. Sony has the more powerful hardware. Arrange the numbers anyway you want but the PS3 is the more powerful piece of kit. By the XBots mouths, MS has managed to squander their head start in game development with crappy kits, and TO DATE, PS3 games look better than their 360 counterparts on average. I don't care what is video, what is games, etc... Graphics and animation matter early in a console's life. This is because only hardcore gamers buy at launch. Casuals will wait until the magical $199 price point, and cheap games are available. Most casuals I know will buy a $100-$149 PS2 this holiday with lots of $20 games over ANYTHING next-generation.
4. I think MS may close the gap in America and Europe, because if they are smart they will come in cheaper. However, given MS adamancy that they want to make money this time, it will be a long while before they offer the 360 at the $199 pricepoint. Sony, for better or worse, is willing to take risks and may come in at a price that is a lot closer to the 360 than many think. It's their technology, so they only have to recoup their research costs, and have always come it at a lower price than many predicted.
5. MS has the online advantage. However, the reality is that really doesn't mean much outside of the continental US. Maybe 50% of houses support broadband capability right now, although it is growing. Neither Europe or Japan has the infrastructure in place that the the US does currently either. Will this grow? Yes, but it takes time, and I know a lot of people who refuse to pay broadband prices. Not everyone is a techno-geek.
None of this matters to the average consumer for the next 3+ years anyway. To put it frankly, the market isn't ready for next-gen no matter how much MS wants to push it. Especially at the prices we are seeing. You can now buy a Dell PC for about the same price as a 360 or the PS3 for that matter. The casuals are not going to buy into this at those prices. And the hardcore gamers will buy anything - witness the 3DO, DC, Neo Geo, and Saturn.
Jaffe is a first party Sony developer. He has an obvious interest in putting PS3 in a good light.fortified_concept said:
Same for the first party MS developers when they praise the 360, of course (add to them Itagaki, at least for now
)Maybe Uchida doesn't represent Konami, but he's a producer and I'm sure he knows his words can have some weight (remember I'm not saying he lied
)AFAIK Carmack is working on a multiplatform title (he said so in an interview, if I remember correctly), for both 360 and PS3 (not sure about Revolution) and there's another difference: his main platform is the PC, and no one can really control the development on that platform.
He doesn't need to pay royalties to MS/Intel/AMD/ATI/NVIDIA, and no one of them, even MS, can stop him from developing on that platform.
Konami has to pay the royalties to Sony and I suppose their games (for PS2/PS3/PSP) need to be approved by Sony. They can be seriously damaged if the relationship isn't good.
So, I think Carmack is in a much more "free" position and he also proved that in the past, stating that he didn't like some choices from MS, ATI, NVIDIA, etc.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Cuth said:
Those are some blanket statments...
I think the gist of it is:
1-Carmack says both XeCPU and CELL are a pain in the ass to port PC code onto....CELL especially...
He, of course, is 100% right about that....PC developers the world over will have a hard time with the transition to these OOO console Architectures. They will go over the console development kicking and screaming but a majority of them *WILL* go.....the writing has been on the wall for years that console platforms is where the money is at...as competitive as the marketplace is (and it will only get moreso in the future) these PC guys are looking at TEH ONE CONSOLE FUTURE (well, maybe two) and they, not surprisingly, don't like it......this fact my be more than just a small influence to their console bitching, methinks..
Console developers, meanwhile, will do what they always have done and suck it up and hit their nose to the grindstone and *MAKE* it work....Console developers are used to having to deal with hardware that has fundementally different architectures from generation to generation...especially japanese developers, some of whom think taming wonky console hardware is almost a badge of honor.....small surprise, then, that these developers are the ones making X360/PS3 sing and the PC developers are the ones doing the bitching...
2-Carmack also says the time/expense needed to create more advanced physics isn't worth it and that more effort should be put into how things look (graphics) than how things behave (physics)
This, IMHO, is where a majority of the Carmack-bashing is coming from......you don't even need a CELL chip to simulate the LOLs from GAFer around the globe who roll their eyes at that statement...
Even I, a big fan of Carmack was taken aback by his vision of graphic whoredom over the physical behavior of game objects in the future. If you look at the recent id games, you can see how Carmacks philosopy translates into ids games. Tons of graphic effects with enemies as dumb as doorknobs and not much physics to talk about....
Of course, one big problem is the fact that Carmack statements in this area just smacks of unimagnative (notice I didn't say un-intelligent) thinking. You don't have to be a mega-brain to realize "advanced phyics" and "advanced graphics" DO NOT live in a mutually exclusive vaccumn. Better physics-that is,they way physical objects behave in 3D space, *CAN* improve the way things look in games....we are starting to see examples of this in some X360 and PS3 games....MGS4 being the most recent example..
So, you as a GAF-er hear this physics-downplay talk on one hand and see great example of advanced physics on X360/PS3 on the other hand and.....well....it is not surprising to *me* that even someone as esteemed as JC get the big "WTF? FU" from this forum...
That is my take on this particular subject...
fortified_concept
Banned
Hajaz said:
Yes but his interests don't involve Nvidia or ATI. They involve MS. He makes money working on MS's platforms not on ATI's nor Nvidia's. Sorry but I never took into account PC devs comments for two reasons: Their involvement with MS, and their incredible lack of knowledge towards console architectures.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Those things are paid for advertising minutes, and everyone is doing them when possible. Entourage itself had shitloads of Sony, Apple, etc. moments too.Shogmaster said:
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Speevy said:
It doesn't matter if XBOX 360 is still considered the most powerful console at the casual gamer level as that image never did more than help MS secure a distant second place in two out of three markets. There is no rush to win that battle upfront prior to launch -- a strong positive perception amongst the media and hardcore is all that needs to be established at this early point (Sony and friends appear to have succeeded). PS3's technical advantage will be made perfectly clear to the casuals by EB/Gamestop/Best Buy foot soldiers come preorder campaign time.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
What's all this "All the games" stuff.
This console gen.
Best FPS - Halo / Halo 2
Best Racer - Forza
Best Stealth - Splinter Cell
This console gen.
Best FPS - Halo / Halo 2
Best Racer - Forza
Best Stealth - Splinter Cell
fortified_concept
Banned
cyberheater said:
Although I disagree with the "cyberheater awards" you only mentioned three categories. What about the rest?
PS. To tell you the truth I have no opinion about FPSs and you're probably right. But what REALLY struck me as completely stupid was the stealth award. Are you familiar with a game called MGS3?
Hajaz,
That is the reason that I think MS can make up ground in Europe. The price is apparently pretty reasonable, although I expect Sony to lower the PS2 price to a $100 equivalent by the fall. I think MS will gain the most ground in Europe, because of its strategy, but Europe has a HUGE PS2 presence. PSP, with its laughable software lineup, sells on the Sony name alone. That says a lot about Europe and Sony's position there. This could change if Sony doesn't come in at an equivalent price point.
MS can make ground in Europe, but Sony's marketing and image are still going to be strong.
That is the reason that I think MS can make up ground in Europe. The price is apparently pretty reasonable, although I expect Sony to lower the PS2 price to a $100 equivalent by the fall. I think MS will gain the most ground in Europe, because of its strategy, but Europe has a HUGE PS2 presence. PSP, with its laughable software lineup, sells on the Sony name alone. That says a lot about Europe and Sony's position there. This could change if Sony doesn't come in at an equivalent price point.
MS can make ground in Europe, but Sony's marketing and image are still going to be strong.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
cyberheater said:
I wonder how many will disagree with this statement, especially the POS Splinter Cell...
The biggest game advantage Xbox has...the only game advantage Xbox has is Halo.....
This is the marquee franchise of the Xbox brand.....in all the other generes, you will find something just as good on PS2 *at minimum*
Do you realize just how many games there are on PS2???
Beyond Halo, Xbox's biggest advantage is Live and they have yet to cross the 3 million userbase with that one....
Mr. Lemming
Member
Best racer is RSC2!
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Striek said:
No console has the depth of the PS2 library. I don't think PS3 will even match it.
Notice that i've left out platformers.
Ratchet and Clank is my second best platformer ever (after mario 64).
A PS3 version has me drooling
fortified_concept
Banned
Mr. Lemming said:
I can't argue with that. It was fun as hell. It wasn't that impressive sales-wise though.
Shogmaster
Member
Kleegamefan said:
SC is POS? @_0
Funny thing is, there are far more Broadband users than HDTV owners.
I remember that.Kleegamefan said:
The point is: he's just stating his opinion.
Do you think more advanced physics can make the gaming experience better at least in a decent amount of games?
I think the same
, Carmack not.This doesn't mean he's biased, because it's just an opinion. He hasn't said HL2 is crap beacuse it uses psysichs more than id's games or some idiocy like that.
As you already wrote, id's games reflect Carmack opinions. Always the same type of games, always with the same (pretty simple) gameplay scheme, no advanced AI or psysichs, lack of a decent story, etc. For their games the look is important and an heavy use of psychics probably would change that kind of gameplay.
All id games have good sales, so I suppose they're not much interested in changing their formula. I don't like it, but that's not important for them.
Lunar Aura
Banned
trmas said:
1. japanese support doesnt mean what it did years ago. namco giving MS RR and people giving that a pretty "meh" response proves that. even with that said though, namco, sega and capcom are already on board. only one who isnt really in is konami. 3 outta 4 aint bad.
2. playable this year VS. playable AT THE SOONEST probable e3 which isnt even a public event. I just dont see sony pulling off a spring launch. If they do then thats a different story. MS just needs to pull out all the stops this holiday and all signs point to that happening sales wise. preorders are already batshit insane for the 360.
3. small gap. i dont care what anyone says. when it comes down to it the gap is tiny. if it werent, EA wouldnt even be bothering building madded from the ground up.
4. i dont think sony is kidding this time on price and even if they werent, MS built the 360 with profits in mind this time as well as being able to scale the price and still make money. they have learned.
5. broadband is pretty standard now. 14.95 dsl? hotcakes. prices HAVE come down.
the market IS ready for next gen. its been 6 years. the only reason it seems different is because its an american company kicking it off for the 1st time. no japanese launch and then waiting 6 months. the tradition has been squashed.
SolidSnakex
Member
Lunar Aura said:
The meh was for what it could do sales wise. It's not going to do much, that's how the series has always been. As for the quality of the game, its Ridge Racer so there's no reason to doubt it'll be incredible.
Lunar Aura said:
So the gap between the PS2 and Xbox was tiny too?
Lunar Aura
Banned
i was talking power. the gap bewteen ps2 and xbox was huge both userbase and power wise which was why xbox got "meh" ports. i just cant see that same gap being there. both ways. and as far s japanese support ok say res evil 5 then. that would have never happend in the past now its just not a big deal though.
SolidSnakex
Member
Lunar Aura said:
I know you were talking about the power between the 2 which is why I said that. EA is a company that's not going to miss out on making money from companies they support. They support MS which means they're going to make any money they can on the 360. That doesn't mean the power between the 2 systems is tiny though.
Guy LeDouche
Banned
Your avatar goes perfectly with your constant X360 damage control.Lunar Aura said:
*fingers in ears* - "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU LALALA"
Capcom is somewhat on board, Sega is a shadow of themselves, and Square won't give the 360 anything but token support. That is reality. Call it console racism, nationalism, or whatever. PS3 with no firm launch date has already squashed the 360 in Japan.
Broadband is not standard, not by a longshot. Maybe if you live in big cities and such, but not elsewhere. Even then, MANY people I know won't pay for it. Not until it comes down to dial-up prices (NEVER seen 14.95 DSL, where do you live?)
No, the average consumer doesn't care about the next-gen. Most of them are buying portables now, anyway. Most consumers are not gonna shell out $399 for something that just plays games. If you think so, you are out of touch with reality.
Broadband is not standard, not by a longshot. Maybe if you live in big cities and such, but not elsewhere. Even then, MANY people I know won't pay for it. Not until it comes down to dial-up prices (NEVER seen 14.95 DSL, where do you live?)
No, the average consumer doesn't care about the next-gen. Most of them are buying portables now, anyway. Most consumers are not gonna shell out $399 for something that just plays games. If you think so, you are out of touch with reality.
KeithFranklin
Banned
trmas said:
10% would be a huge improvement and about what I really think MS would hope to get to.
trmas said:
Year after Year MS is surveys is considered one of the most respected companies in the US. Most Respected Companies (MS #2). Where was the 360 raped at TGS. What in the eyes of some fanboys on GAF. Lets hear what people playing the games on the show floor thought. I have seen both G4TV and IGN express disapointment that PS3 games werent there. Just some movies.
trmas said:
Early in the PS3 life it will clearly look inferior to XBOX360 games of the same time. Time and time again fanboys use non game videos to show how PS3 games are so incredible. When we reflect back on this generation the power difference will be a non-issue.
trmas said:
I think you will see the 360 for $249 when PS3 hits the street in the US and $199 a year later.
trmas said:
Wrongo. US Broadband Penetration now up to 58.6% Broadband Penetration
trmas said:
Yeah, yeah thats why XBOX360 pre-orders are being sold out. You will see 2-3 million 360's sold this Christmas and with the boatload of good games coming out the first 6 months it will do very well.
SolidSnakex
Member
KeithFranklin said:
I love how Xbox fans keep bringing this up, especially since they were using a cutscene of GoW at the MTV show as proof that it was powerful instead of the playable Perfect Dark Zero that was there.
58.6% Ooh, that's a big number. And it will be worse in other countries. Yes, hardcore people will buy the 360. Casuals will not. First of all, they wouldn't be able to find it if they wanted to, and second the price would be a huge deterrent.
Abandoning the XBox is the absolutely stupidest move the company could have ever made. And yes people use Windows, because they have no choice. They sure as hell don't seem to like it much, but they have no viable alternative.
Abandoning the XBox is the absolutely stupidest move the company could have ever made. And yes people use Windows, because they have no choice. They sure as hell don't seem to like it much, but they have no viable alternative.
Lunar Aura
Banned
trmas said:
www.ea.com for the answer to your casual argument
www.sbc.com for your broadband at 14.95
MS isnt abandoning anyone. its been 4 years.
my 360 "damage control" isnt any worse than the fanatasism for something that doesnt even have a solid release date or playable game yet.
to your post below this one, the ipod and PSP sell like hotcakes. price doesnt mean anything anymore. its about what the consumer wants.
The 360 is priced outside of normal people's reach. $400 for a GAME machine is much more than many people can afford. I'll give you an example. On my street, which is right by the local elementary school out of my 8 neighbors I know, 2 have broadband. Of the eight, only 1 has more than one game system, and the majority of the kids have a GBA. That $60 entry price point was huge in their buying power.
They all think I'm insane to spend $399 on a new game system, but most of the neighborhood kids spend a lot of time at my house playing games. They don't, or can't, do so at home.
Now, I'm only talking about one demographic. Parents, usually in their late 20's to early 30's. Another example. My coworker at work could only talk about the 360 (hardcore gamer), until a month ago when he found out the price. He basically at this point said MS is insane, and he'll wait. Doesn't matter what his kid wants, bought him an IPOD instead for X-Mas.
Now, young bucks in college and such may be different, but guess what. That demographic usually has trouble making the rent and paying for important things like dates and liquor. They certainly don't have much in the way of spending money. I listen to people talk about SAVING for an 360 on this board, and shake my head. It's obviously out of their price range, but they don't appear to care. Myself, my wife agreed $399 was too much until I brought up the fact that I make 90% of our income, and we have more than enough. I prepaid cash for mine. No credit card, and no savings. If I wasn't in the position I'm in, it would have been out of my range as well.
Technogeeks like people that frequent this board are generally out of touch with market reality.
They all think I'm insane to spend $399 on a new game system, but most of the neighborhood kids spend a lot of time at my house playing games. They don't, or can't, do so at home.
Now, I'm only talking about one demographic. Parents, usually in their late 20's to early 30's. Another example. My coworker at work could only talk about the 360 (hardcore gamer), until a month ago when he found out the price. He basically at this point said MS is insane, and he'll wait. Doesn't matter what his kid wants, bought him an IPOD instead for X-Mas.
Now, young bucks in college and such may be different, but guess what. That demographic usually has trouble making the rent and paying for important things like dates and liquor. They certainly don't have much in the way of spending money. I listen to people talk about SAVING for an 360 on this board, and shake my head. It's obviously out of their price range, but they don't appear to care. Myself, my wife agreed $399 was too much until I brought up the fact that I make 90% of our income, and we have more than enough. I prepaid cash for mine. No credit card, and no savings. If I wasn't in the position I'm in, it would have been out of my range as well.
Technogeeks like people that frequent this board are generally out of touch with market reality.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Yeah, lets...
http://forum.gaming-age.com/showthread.php?t=63346
john tv said:- Xbox 360 was disappointing, aside from N3. Nothing looks really next-gen to me yet. I should've checked out the 360 before I saw the Metal Gear trailer.I'm starting to lose faith in Microsoft again. Do they get it or not?
.
ddkawaii said:
winston_pr said:
The X360 has an uphill battle in SONYLAND (i.e Japan and Europe) and even in the U.S. Microsoft has a stiff fight against the PS3 there...
Obviously your definition of normal and mine are completely different. I'm talking about the average American household which makes $60K a year (generous). Most of them wouldn't consider putting $400 on a console.
There is a reason the sweet spot has been $199 the past six years. Most just won't spend more than that for a video game machine. Hence, the popularity of handhelds like the GBA and cell phone games.
There is a reason the sweet spot has been $199 the past six years. Most just won't spend more than that for a video game machine. Hence, the popularity of handhelds like the GBA and cell phone games.
Lunar Aura
Banned
so youre saying ps3 is doomed too then.
Lunar Aura
Banned
so then 360 is gonna have a shitty christmas and its gonna languish on shelves until it hits 199? i mean help me out here. help me understand where you are coming from. i wanna see what you see.