Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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venne said:
Steam's share of - say - Modern Warfare 3's sales to date?
(That is to say, there is a vast chunk of the market for these games that isn't ready to use a service like Steam exclusively. Even if the number of people willing and able to go DD only grows, there will for quite a long time to come be a substantial portion of the market needing and demanding discs - too substantial to ignore. At least if you're running a global business.)
gofreak said:
It all depends.
1) MS can spend to get higher density Ram . So instead of 2 + 2 needing 12 modules it may only need 6. For 2+ 4 it may only require 10 .
2) Ms can go with higher chip counts now and wait till later in the generation to reduce chips. Its what happened this generation.
I think 2 / 2 would be a good amount. Windows 8 uses 256MBs someone said earlier this thread I believe . So they can fit all of windows 8 and still have 1.5 gigs free for any code they want to keep in the main system ram . 2gigs of ram should leave plenty of texture memory even with a 1080p frame buffer in there.
My radeon 6950 has 2 gigs of ram and plays games just fine at 5760x1080 .
But who knows they could go with a 192bit bus instead of a 128 bit bus this gen and end up with a wierd number like 1.5gigs of 2.5 gigs of ram
My best guess for 2012 ?
2 gigs system ram
2 gigs vram
32 gigs of flash ram (not an ssd , this would be on the motherboard and be used as a fast cache for games to offset the slow speed of optical )
320 gig 2.5 inch standard hardrive (mabye 500 gig) whatever is a single plater
cpu would either be a custom power pc chip or a 4/8 piledriver
gpu would be a custom job with most likely 30MB of edram
I remain tempted if MS used a dual approach strategy.
Seing they are investing in an ecosystem OS (phones/tablets/PC/Consoles), they could license some of Xbox 360/Live architecture so that manufacturing partners produce set-top boxes with limited but still tempting gaming options.
They still would reserve next gen architecture for themselves.
Might also be a way of unloading the production of Kinct to partners and just focusing on its software and hardware specifications (ala windows phone).
Seing they are investing in an ecosystem OS (phones/tablets/PC/Consoles), they could license some of Xbox 360/Live architecture so that manufacturing partners produce set-top boxes with limited but still tempting gaming options.
They still would reserve next gen architecture for themselves.
Might also be a way of unloading the production of Kinct to partners and just focusing on its software and hardware specifications (ala windows phone).
[Nintex] said:
I agree with a lot of this. but the generic (maybe overused) counterpoint is that they would wait because they are doing so well with Kinect and the xbox slim relaunch. they have no pressure to get up from behind and start fresh.
So they may want to stretch that out as long as possible. At least, the impression I have of MS is a company that will stretch out a profitable product as long as possible.
But I would be happy if they launched "early" and got something out in time for Holiday 2012. It would show that they were more interested in winning the next 5 years than hanging on t the lead they have now.
LCfiner said:
MS and third-parties may not have software ready by holiday 2012 either. You can bet they would require at least 1 FPS at launch, and considering all the major developers (Epic, Infinity Ward, EA Digital Illusions, etc.) launched games this year it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to have the next iteration complete next year. And Halo 4 is committed as a 360 project.
Or maybe I'm overlooking something, like the possibility of a new FPS franchise from one of the new studios Microsoft set up (e.g., MGS Vancouver) or alternating teams working on well-established franchises like CoD.
FunnyBunny
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The US is not ready for this. A vast number of people, who play games, don't even have broadband.Majine said:
MS would alienate millions of potential customers.
Projectjustice
Banned
2GB is more than enough, pretty surprising that so many want 2011 PC levels of spec in their console. If thats the case then just build yourself a PC. Console and PCs dont work the same. Thought this a general understanding around here. Guess not.
Stats to back up this claim?FunnyBunny said:
A quick search says 63% of US households have broadband. I would guess that those that don't would tend to be poor or old, both demographics not in the gaming industry's crosshairs.
http://depzone.wordpress.com/2011/0...ort-u-s-ranks-ninth-in-broadband-penetration/
Paco said:
Epic might be ready to go. Similariton looked very impressive and was shown off awhile ago. It could be very possible that they have been deep into development of a next gen game for MS for launch.
Epic had a huge sucess by having Gears ready for MS in 2006. So I can see them being ready for the first year with something.
For launch they will most likely get the PC verisons of the newest COD and Battlefield. They could also possibly get SW the old republic .
I think they'd have enough for the first year launch. Some PC games are already moving to dx 11 and its most likely MS's next gen console will be the base for dx 12.
I thought I read a stat that around half of all 360s were not connected to the net. So regardless of the number of broadband houses, some people don't want the consoles hooked up.venne said:
But if that was from a report closer to the launch then it may not be so important.
Maybe I'll try to dig that report out later
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
BurntPork said:
I assume you mean any current generation console. IIRC there's ~35 million active users on steam, which would put it beyond XBOX1 / GC. The number of people who don't use Steam but would be able to support a DD only console would be far higher than this number. High-bandwidth internet connections have a very high penetration these days.
I wouldn't say that such a console is necessarily viable as the dominant one in the market, but by the same token I think it would be foolish to say it couldn't have a good measure of success.
The advantage to this is that because this gen has gone on for so long we have a franchises that could push out a greatest hits title running at 1080p 60fps with added effects, the game the title was trying to be but held back by the hardware.venne said:
Imagine a forza greatest hits with the best cars and tracks or a COD:MW greatest hits with the best etc.
There are 35 million active Live accounts according to Major Nelson.LCfiner said:
http://majornelson.com/2011/06/03/a-few-stats-before-we-head-into-e3/
That's plenty enough to carry the system for the first couple years while the neophytes get their shit together.
I suppose I should mention that I do not want a DD system, I much prefer the physical media mainly due to pricing which seems to decrease much faster in the physical market than the digital. I simply think it's very possible.
The only advantage I see from the presence of a disc drive is backwards compatibility.rance said:
I would be willing to bet that the 360s connected to the internet are the most profitable for Microsoft. These are the customers Microsoft wants to cater to, not the bargain bin used game crowd. Nothing wrong with alienating the customers that don't bring in the cash.
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I do believe Steam has many double dippers, people having consoles and a PC.
Whereas a console centric consumer is harder to move onto the PC, I believe Steam users are more tech savvy, having been around PC and consoles for a longer time and making more educated choices on their gaming options.
Also there is broadband and broadband. Speed and reliability are not stated in the 63% deployment rate.
Nealand Liquor
Member
BurntPork said:
In Canada I can see the CRTC's latest consumer hating, corporate double dipping move affecting all forms of DD. It's going to be pretty tough for me to justify going over my cap just so I don't have to leave my house that day, or choose not to play online for the rest of the month because a steam sale is just that good.
I'm not sure if the US has similar policies, but I do think the CRTC's decision will hurt the Canadian side of netflix/steam/DD business, all the while keeping Canadians in the dark ages and hampering innovation.
venne said:
yes, but MS caters to a wide audience.
Many groups that deal in both high-end and medium profit margins business use a segmented Brand approach. The same guy tries to own Porsche and Volkswagen for example.
I hardly see MS introduce XBOX rich guys.
But as I stated earlier, refining the xbox 360 into a DD-apps-tv box they can make a buck on it with medium consummers who can use broadband to download some xbox live games and maybe games on demand, while XBOX TEN users get the full treatment albeit next gen games are limited to retail because you hardly can download a 30gigs game and not be bothered by it in some way.
rance said:
It depends on the device you're trying to make and the type of people you're trying to serve.
But for a console? something that a lot of people still consider to be a toy for kids? yeah, best to go for as broad adoption as possible. MS has had a lot of recent success broadening the 360's market with the Kinect stuff.
...but if MS doesn't put an optical drive in there, they can use the leftover cash to put in 4 GB of RAM! (don't kill me!)
edit:
venne said:
that is a lot, but it's still a little more than half of all 360 sales
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/Kpi/fy12/Q1/detail.aspx
Sure, they could make the switch to DD only and wait for that other half to get online... but it seems like it's an arbitrary cutoff. this is not a portable device, drives aren't expensive. I dunno. I don't see it happening.
Oh, and let's not forget that Gamestop and the major electronics retailers would haaaate MS if they released a DD only console, cutting them out of software sales with higher margins. promotion for the new machine might be awful if it were DD only
Right now, the online is optional for the Xbox. I could see Microsoft forcing the issue with the next box even if they maintain physical media.LCfiner said:
They can throw the retailers a bone by offering game cards/online codes instead of boxed copies if that's the way they go. I would think many retailers (outside of used game meccas) wouldn't oppose the transition as it would save on shipping costs and shelf/warehouse space.
Again, who knows if they go this route. They'd have to be pretty forward looking to try it, but perhaps the benefits outweigh the costs in the final analysis. All I'll say is that it wouldn't surprise me.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I'm not sure what you mean because Steam is still very much bound by download caps. I wouldn't download a 20-40GB game on steam with my monthly cap. They also need an optical media if they want to sell the console outside of the1st world market, that's for sure. It's not out of question that there would be two models to chose from though - cheaper one with no optical media. I think that would be a pretty smart move actually.venne said:
diffusionx
Gold Member
LCfiner said:
In the 360's case, I would say that at least 50% of the discrepancy (so 10M units) is due to repeat systems.
venne said:
it is up in the air. I'm not saying that 100% they will have a disc drive. But I just get the feeling that there's less benefit for them to go DD with this machine so they may fall on the other side of the line and keep the drive.
I would love to see DD day and date releases for all games, though. I think that has a very high chance of happening.
Nealand Liquor
Member
diffusionx said:
I don't know, I think 10 million is quite a lot to chock up to repurchases especially when repairs were free. I'm not saying that I don't believe some 360 owners bought secondary consoles, but I do think saying 20% of 360 owners bought a secondary console is unrealistic.
On the flip side of my argument's coin using same the arbitrary 20%, I'd be better prepared to say that I find it more believable that 360 owners sold their consoles on secondary markets in order to purchase newer (jasper/slim) consoles. Though even in that scenario, MS is still seeing an upward penetration rate.
Again I'm not arguing the fact that some 360 owners bought secondary consoles, I just feel the 20% to be unrealistically high.
Huh, what? Both the X360 and PS3 use standard 2.5" (laptop size) SATA drives.Raide said:
I guess your asking if they'll ditch the proprietary enclosures and let you access the HDD directly like the PS3. In which case, who knows. From my understanding, the 360 lets you connect HDDs by USB now, so there's really no point in MS continuing they're rip off scheme.
Nealand Liquor
Member
Luigiv said:
I think MS's days of HHDway robbery are over. I very much see something like 16 gigs of flash memory in all boxes being standard & the option to upgrade/add non proprietary HHDs later.
I also wouldn't doubt if they continued their multisku strategy, the core being the above mentioned spec and the elite would include a 500 gb HDD sold at a premium. Obviously this is pure speculation on my behalf.
Mik2121 said:
to
Totally the same thing.
I swear, Samaritan has completely poisoned the discussion of next generation consoles.
1) *none* of the next gen consoles will have the computational power required to render it
2) "bu-bu-bu it can be optimized for one GTX 580, they said!" equates to the downscaling of resolution, textures, light sources, etc. not to mention a GTX 580 is too hot and power hungry still for a console and its 22nm counterparts aren't going to help you here. Whatever is going into a 2012 console is not going to be a 2013 part.
3) Samaritan was a cutscene. There was no "game code" in it. By design, more of its i7+3 tri-SLI GTX 580s could be used to shiny it up
4) The cost to create a game that looks like that the whole way through for is not feasible, even if we had $799 consoles with the required minimum hardware for it
The end. Stop looking at it.
Jorok Goldblade
Member
StevieP said:
I wish I could find the quote again, but I remember reading someone from Epic saying that hardware capable of running Samaritan won't make sense to put into a console until three years into next gen.
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