I can't fight that!BurntPork said:Download caps.
Well, that was an easy point to kill.
venne said:Steam.
rance said:maybe we should all go on newegg and buy ms some ram guys
let's do this
gofreak said:2 of system (DDR3) + 2 of VRAM (GDDR5) would require 12 modules, assuming higher density GDDR5 doesn't become available next year.
2+4 would require 20.
There might be higher density GDDR5 on the cards, but haven't been able to find mention of that anywhere yet.
There is another possibility on the other end of the scale here - we're assuming MS 'has to' have faster memory somewhere for the GPU. But they might mirror the 360 design, put eDRAM off the GPU, put 2GB of DDR3 in UMA, and call it a day. That's a possibility if they want to save money, want the kind of design they initially intended for 360 (4 RAM chips, 256MB).
Raide said:I have some old DDR2 i could donate. If I super-glue them together, thats DDR4 right...RIGHT?
The point wasn't that DD is the dominant means of obtaining software, the point was that DD services exist that deliver huge games regardless of 'data caps.' I have dragon's age on steam and it' something like 25 GB.gofreak said:Steam's share of - say - Modern Warfare 3's sales to date?
(That is to say, there is a vast chunk of the market for these games that isn't ready to use a service like Steam exclusively. Even if the number of people willing and able to go DD only grows, there will for quite a long time to come be a substantial portion of the market needing and demanding discs - too substantial to ignore. At least if you're running a global business.)
rance said:why not glue three together? or are you too poor to afford ONE extra?
[Nintex] said:Look at this from MS's perspective:
Sony: Focus is on Vita and a new type of TV Stringer is hyping up. Credit outlook is 'negative' they keep losing millions and the strong Yen is killing them. Move didn't do that well. MS is still ahead of them in the US by quite a margin.
Nintendo: Messed up the 3DS launch, had to double back on that and take a hit on hardware. Revealed Wii U at E3 2011, went back to the drawing board with some bits and delayed the launch. Has EA breathing down their necks to make it Origin exclusive. Wii has pretty much nothing after Zelda and starts to tank pretty bad. DS is on its way out and they have this whole iOS/Android thing to deal with.
Seriously, why wouldn't they launch? Why would they wait for Nintendo and Sony to get their shit together? They've got the edge here, Sony blew all their cash last gen.
Whelp! Guess I've been schooled.brain_stew said:The way PowerVR GPUs scale is completely different to how a high end GPU scales.
High end GPUs are already inherently parallel, they even have multiple geometry pipelines these days. All a dual GPU setup is going to do is duplicate the parts of the pipeline that simply don't need to be duplicated, it's just going to reduce efficiency. Nvidia have been tweaking and refining SLI on the PC for nigh on a.decade now and it's still a fundamentally broken solution.
This rumour is pathetic and isn't even worth proper discussion. These chumps need to actually start putting some effort into creating their rumours.
LCfiner said:I agree with a lot of this. but the generic (maybe overused) counterpoint is that [/\b]they would wait because they are doing so well with Kinect and the xbox slim relaunch[/b]. they have no pressure to get up from behind and start fresh.
So they may want to stretch that out as long as possible. At least, the impression I have of MS is a company that will stretch out a profitable product as long as possible.
But I would be happy if they launched "early" and got something out in time for Holiday 2012. It would show that they were more interested in winning the next 5 years than hanging on t the lead they have now.
About damn time, where the hell were you ?brain_stew said:This rumour is pathetic and isn't even worth proper discussion. These chumps need to actually start putting some effort into creating their rumours.
The US is not ready for this. A vast number of people, who play games, don't even have broadband.Majine said:I hope it is digital-only. I think Microsoft, of the big three is the most capable on creating a full on digital platform.
Software is probably the least of their worries.Paco said:MS and third-parties may not have software ready by holiday 2012 either. You can bet they would require at least 1 FPS at launch, and considering all the major developers (Epic, Infinity Ward, EA Digital Illusions, etc.) launched games this year it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to have the next iteration complete next year. And Halo 4 is committed as a 360 project.
Or maybe I'm overlooking something, like the possibility of a new FPS franchise from one of the new studios Microsoft set up (e.g., MGS Vancouver) or alternating teams working on well-established franchises like CoD.
Stats to back up this claim?FunnyBunny said:The US is not ready for this. A vast number of people, who play games, don't even have broadband.
MS would alienate millions of potential customers.
Paco said:MS and third-parties may not have software ready by holiday 2012 either. You can bet they would require at least 1 FPS at launch, and considering all the major developers (Epic, Infinity Ward, EA Digital Illusions, etc.) launched games this year it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to have the next iteration complete next year. And Halo 4 is committed as a 360 project.
Or maybe I'm overlooking something, like the possibility of a new FPS franchise from one of the new studios Microsoft set up (e.g., MGS Vancouver) or alternating teams working on well-established franchises like CoD.
I thought I read a stat that around half of all 360s were not connected to the net. So regardless of the number of broadband houses, some people don't want the consoles hooked up.venne said:Stats to back up this claim?
A quick search say 63% of US households have broadband. I would guess that those that don't would tend to be poor or old, both demographics not in the gaming industries crosshairs.
http://depzone.wordpress.com/2011/0...ort-u-s-ranks-ninth-in-broadband-penetration/
No, that did not kill my point at all. Steam isn't nearly as mainstream as any console.venne said:Steam.
Well, that was an easy point to kill.
BurntPork said:No, that did not kill my point at all. Steam isn't nearly as mainstream as any console.
The advantage to this is that because this gen has gone on for so long we have a franchises that could push out a greatest hits title running at 1080p 60fps with added effects, the game the title was trying to be but held back by the hardware.venne said:Software is probably the least of their worries.
Most launches suck when it comes to software and I would bet every publisher could shit out a upsampled port of whatever they're working on.
There are 35 million active Live accounts according to Major Nelson.LCfiner said:I thought I read a stat that around half of all 360s were not connected to the net. So regardless of the number of broadband houses, some people don't want the consoles hooked up.
But if that was from a report closer to the launch then it may not be so important.
Maybe I'll try to dig that report out later
Your point wasn't about being mainstream, it was about data caps and it was incorrect.BurntPork said:No, that did not kill my point at all. Steam isn't nearly as mainstream as any console.
rance said:Intentionally cutting off possible customers is such a bad business strategy. They can simply do what they do now, which is focus on physical and retail while improving their DD end for futureproof.
The only advantage I see from the presence of a disc drive is backwards compatibility.rance said:Intentionally cutting off possible customers is such a bad business strategy. They can simply do what they do now, which is focus on physical and retail while improving their DD end for futureproof.
ThoseDeafMutes said:I assume you mean any current generation console. IIRC there's ~35 million active users on steam, which would put it beyond XBOX1 / GC. The number of people who don't use Steam but would be able to support a DD only console would be far higher than this number. High-bandwidth internet connections have a very high penetration these days.
I wouldn't say that such a console is necessarily viable as the dominant one in the market, but by the same token I think it would be foolish to say it couldn't have a good measure of success.
BurntPork said:Download caps.
Well, that was an easy point to kill.
venne said:The only advantage I see from the presence of a disc drive is backwards compatibility.
I would be willing to bet that the 360s connected to the internet are the most profitable for Microsoft. These are the customers Microsoft wants to cater to, not the bargain bin used game crowd. Nothing wrong with alienating the customers that don't bring in the cash.
rance said:Intentionally cutting off possible customers is such a bad business strategy. They can simply do what they do now, which is focus on physical and retail while improving their DD end for futureproof.
venne said:There are 35 million active Live accounts according to Major Nelson.
http://majornelson.com/2011/06/03/a-few-stats-before-we-head-into-e3/
That's plenty enough to carry the system for the first couple years while the neophytes get their shit together.
Right now, the online is optional for the Xbox. I could see Microsoft forcing the issue with the next box even if they maintain physical media.LCfiner said:is a lot, but it's still a little more than half of all 360 sales
http://www.microsoft.com/investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earnings/Kpi/fy12/Q1/detail.aspx
Sure, they could make the switch to DD only and wait for that other half to get online... but it seems like it's an arbitrary cutoff. this is not a portable device, drives aren't expensive. I dunno. I don't see it happening.
Oh, and let's not forget that Gamestop and the major electronics retailers would haaaate MS if they released a DD only console, cutting them out of software sales with higher margins. promotion for the new machine might be awful if it were DD only
Raide said:3 sticks? Thats crazy talk. Not even if MS and Sony got together could they afford that outlay.
I'm not sure what you mean because Steam is still very much bound by download caps. I wouldn't download a 20-40GB game on steam with my monthly cap. They also need an optical media if they want to sell the console outside of the1st world market, that's for sure. It's not out of question that there would be two models to chose from though - cheaper one with no optical media. I think that would be a pretty smart move actually.venne said:Steam.
Well, that was an easy point to kill.
LCfiner said:that is a lot, but it's still a little more than half of all 360 sales
Or as someone mentioned, an accessory like the HD-DVD drive for physical media / disc based backwards compatibility.Lord Error said:I'm not sure what you mean because Steam is still very much bound by download caps. I wouldn't download a 20-40GB game on steam with my monthly cap. They also need an optical media if they want to sell the console outside of the1st world market, that's for sure. It's not out of question that there would be two models to chose from though - cheaper one with no optical media. I think that would be a pretty smart move actually.
venne said:Right now, the online is optional for the Xbox. I could see Microsoft forcing the issue with the next box even if they maintain physical media.
They can throw the retailers a bone by offering game cards/online codes instead of boxed copies if that's the way they go. I would think many retailers (outside of used game meccas) wouldn't oppose the transition as it would save on shipping costs and shelf/warehouse space.
Again, who knows if they go this route. They'd have to be pretty forward looking to try it, but perhaps the benefits outweigh the costs in the final analysis. All I'll say is that it wouldn't surprise me.
diffusionx said:In the 360's case, I would say that at least 50% of the discrepancy (so 10M units) is due to repeat systems.
Huh, what? Both the X360 and PS3 use standard 2.5" (laptop size) SATA drives.Raide said:What about the HDD. Do you think MS will go for a standard SATA upgradable HDD like the PS3? Or will they stick with the built in Laptop sized HDD?
Luigiv said:Huh, what? Both the X360 and PS3 use standard 2.5" (laptop size) SATA drives.
I guess your asking if they'll ditch the proprietary enclosures and let you access the HDD directly like the PS3. In which case, who knows. From my understanding, the 360 lets you connect HDDs by USB now, so there's really no point in MS continuing they're rip off scheme.
Luigiv said:Huh, what? Both the X360 and PS3 use standard 2.5" (laptop size) SATA drives.
I guess your asking if they'll ditch the proprietary enclosures and let you access the HDD directly like the PS3. In which case, who knows. From my understanding, the 360 lets you connect HDDs by USB now, so there's really no point in MS continuing they're rip off scheme.
Luigiv said:Huh, what? Both the X360 and PS3 use standard 2.5" (laptop size) SATA drives.
I guess your asking if they'll ditch the proprietary enclosures and let you access the HDD directly like the PS3. In which case, who knows. From my understanding, the 360 lets you connect HDDs by USB now, so there's really no point in MS continuing they're rip off scheme.
Lol.thuway said:This is exactly where Sony fits into the equation. They will have to be the ones with the high end console. Sony needs to get all their resources together to make a platform that is easy to develop, powerful, and has plenty of "juice" to exploit for talented devs. The PlayStation will never be a "multimedia" hub, it's always been the game machine. The Vita did it right- super powerful, amazing GPU/CPU, and a forward thinking design.
Microsoft - Living room set top box $299
Nintendo - Xbox 360 - PS3 X 1.5 $299
PS4 - Graphic horse $399
All three have a space in the living room with different price points.
guek said:My prediction is that the Xbox3 wont be geared towards gamers (and all youse gaffers will CRAH)
Oh it'll have a respectable processor, a decent GPU, and a healthy dose of extra ram, but the thing will be modern existing tech, not cutting edge. It'll be priced slightly lower, definitely less than $400 for the cheapest SKU, and be focused around using the Kinect (2.0?) as a living room centerpiece. It'll have a sizable HD focused around downloading media, exchanging pictures, but more importantly, purchasing living room apps. MS will attempt to do what apple TV could not and take over the living room using the xbox brand and kinect functionality as a trojan horse. They will attempt to start a new cheap app market centered around micro-content in the living room. It'll also attempt to replace cable as the standard provider for movies and shows. Gaming will of course be emphasized each year at E3 or other trade events, but really they'll be focusing more on ways to make money through digitial distribution of products other than games. The thing will have full cross compatibility with windows 8 and allow seamless media sharing between multiple devices. Windows phones and laptops will automatically sync folders you want to share between devices when within your home network. There will be apps that work on both phones and on the Xbox3 (via kinect). You'll be able to communicate and share content with other people on the xbox live network through their phone, computer, or console.
That...is my prediction. *removes tinfoil hat*
Wow, do you know what 3 times more powerful than 360 or PS3 even means?Shanadeus said:Lol.
I wonder where from people are getting this idea of the Wii U being a weak-sauce console.
It will be at least 360&PS3 X 3 and up.
Mik2121 said:They will either show:
a) A pre-rendered tech demo (visual target) that's been created based on the estimated specs of the console.
b) Show some realtime demonstration working on a PC, again, based on the specs of the console. Something like the Samaritan demo from Epic Games released a few months ago, but catered to that console, rather than "what's coming in the future".
3 x 360/PS3 CPUderFeef said:Wow, do you know what 3 times more powerful than 360 or PS3 even means?
StevieP said:I swear, Samaritan has completely poisoned the discussion of next generation consoles.
1) *none* of the next gen consoles will have the computational power required to render it
2) "bu-bu-bu it can be optimized for one GTX 580, they said!" equates to the downscaling of resolution, textures, light sources, etc. not to mention a GTX 580 is too hot and power hungry still for a console and its 22nm counterparts aren't going to help you here. Whatever is going into a 2012 console is not going to be a 2013 part.
3) Samaritan was a cutscene. There was no "game code" in it. By design, more of its i7+3 tri-SLI GTX 580s could be used to shiny it up
4) The cost to create a game that looks like that the whole way through for is not feasible, even if we had $799 consoles with the required minimum hardware for it
The end. Stop looking at it.