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[-ImaginaryInsider]

I doubt there will be.

MS seems to really like having a unified RAM pool. This console would buck that for something else. Though I really doubt it will only be 2 gigs of DDR3.

2 gigs of XDR or GDDR5 I could see. Maybe 3 gigs if they feel spendy.

I'm with Raistlin on this. Unified memory pool.

That's what I'd like to see happen, but 3gb of GDDR5 is highly unlikely.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

That's what I'd like to see happen, but 3gb of GDDR5 is highly unlikely.

I agree.

But I am pretty damn sure that they won't have a split memory pool either.

So I fall back on my likely scenario. 2 gigs of an expensive RAM.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

I agree.

But I am pretty damn sure that they won't have a split memory pool either.

So I fall back on my likely scenario. 2 gigs of an expensive RAM.

I think they'd ditch UMA if it netted them a significant advantage, but it doesn't seem like it would. Still wondering if there will be some kind of edram daughter die like last time.

 

[terrdactycalsrock]

I know its a broad question but can someone explain/simplfiy cpu jargon for me? Six cores sounds like a lot, espically because I hear pc gamers talking about how a 4 core intel i5 is the best on the market, or at least the most popular. But I hear about AMD and bulldozer and that has more cores, yet people are saying that intel is still out performing them. And finally I thought the ps3 had an 8 core cpu?

 

[bgassassin]

^ Your last question may very well depend on who you ask, especially after that short debate awhile ago.

You may want to rephrase the rest of your post to get the answer you're looking for.

That's not much better than a 5850 bro.

3-4 teraflops is what I am expecting, per b3d predictions.

I don't recall seeing that level of prediction. Have a link for it?

 

[Rad-]

Just heard from a high ranking mole inside Blizzard, he works on the small team thats developing an unannounced project. Tight, high level exclusive access. Just today they received an official Xbox successor dev kit, not an early dev computer box, but a revised official-like development kit. I cannot give any more details because I was not provided any.

My source is very reliable.

Does anyone know how much before the launch did devs get the official 360/PS3 dev kits this gen? 1 or 2 years before?

 

[DopeyFish]

Does anyone know how much before the launch did devs get the official 360/PS3 dev kits this gen? 1 or 2 years before?

March of 2004 is when we got pictures of the pallet of G5 dev kits leaving Microsoft

(which eventually turned into the poor camera holders dismissal lol)

 

[TheOddOne]

Just heard from a high ranking mole inside Blizzard, he works on the small team thats developing an unannounced project. Tight, high level exclusive access. Just today they received an official Xbox successor dev kit, not an early dev computer box, but a revised official-like development kit. I cannot give any more details because I was not provided any.

My source is very reliable.

So they had a kit before that?

 

[Proelite]

I don't recall seeing that level of prediction. Have a link for it?

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1591077&postcount=7880
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1591342&postcount=7900

These posts are REALLY generous with caculations. But knowing MS and AMD, they'll probably go for the crazy high end chips.

 

[bgassassin]

Oh those links. I think generous was an understatement. Though Rangers was focused on a much later launch.

Does anyone know how much before the launch did devs get the official 360/PS3 dev kits this gen? 1 or 2 years before?

Here's an old link I found awhile back that breaks down the PS3 dev kit timeline.

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5960218&&#post5960218

You'll have to scroll down to see it because of how the post link works.

 

[Hawk269]

I know its a broad question but can someone explain/simplfiy cpu jargon for me? Six cores sounds like a lot, espically because I hear pc gamers talking about how a 4 core intel i5 is the best on the market, or at least the most popular. But I hear about AMD and bulldozer and that has more cores, yet people are saying that intel is still out performing them. And finally I thought the ps3 had an 8 core cpu?

True, alot of PC gamers talk about it, but most games are coded for 2 cores. If MS does put a 6 core CPU in the next box, I can see developers really start to utilize more than just 2 cores. I have an I72600k CPU and alot of games barely use much of it and in most cases like I mentioned, most games are coded for 2 cores.

Since development on consoles is a bit different and they are able to program to take advantage of the fact that all xb720's are the same, they can leverage the CPU a bit more than what most do for PC gaming.

 

[Proelite]

Oh those links. I think generous was an understatement. Though Rangers was focused on a much later launch.

MS and AMD can hit 28nm for gpus next year right? If that's the case, I don't see the point of waiting until 2013, unless the software isn't ready.

With a larger die size budget for the GPU, 300m^2, they should able to do over three teraflops.

 

[DopeyFish]

MS and AMD can hit 28nm for gpus next year right? If that's the case, I don't see the point of waiting until 2013, unless the software isn't ready.

next year would be a good time to get a head start, especially if they can get AMDs next gen part a year earlier

Xbox's GPU (via Nvidia) was basically an early GeForce 4 Ti4400 (which launched April 2002) and before someone tears me up, yes it was a GeForce 3 with two pixel pipelines, which is basically what a GeForce 4 was... except with DX8.1 support... and other stuff.
Xbox 360 GPU was roughly a very early HD2000/3000 (launched in 2007)

They have done it before, we don't know exactly how much R&D is going into this thing.

we should stop being so narrow minded to only be thinking of current PC tech. Wasn't the 360 GPU pretty customised?

for the time it was a pretty radical design but later we saw it was the future foundation of the Radeon line. there was nothing quite like it out there, especially in flexibility

but in regards to future tech... I would assume because of the universal shading pipeline that has existed since the Xbox 360 GPU... it's likely the most improvements would be to floating point precision, general performance increases and performance:watt. We haven't seen the universal shaders mature, not even close.

 

[mrklaw]

MS and AMD can hit 28nm for gpus next year right? If that's the case, I don't see the point of waiting until 2013, unless the software isn't ready.

With a larger die size budget for the GPU, 300m^2, they should able to do over three teraflops.

People keep posting how the next gen of 28 or even 22nm cards won't be out in time. But those are retail cards. Ati and nvidia will control the release based on yields, current sales and affordability

its perfectly possible for a console to have access to tech that isnt at retail yet. If 28nm isn't doable with good yields, MS/Sony can opt to take the financial hit of poor yields and plan fir those costs to drop quickly, or they could engineer for a larger die size and then re-engineer in 12-18 months with a smaller chip

we should stop being so narrow minded to only be thinking of current PC tech. Wasn't the 360 GPU pretty customised?

 

[charsace]

next year would be a good time to get a head start, especially if they can get AMDs next gen part a year earlier

Xbox's GPU (via Nvidia) was basically an early GeForce 4 Ti4400 (which launched April 2002) and before someone tears me up, yes it was a GeForce 3 with two pixel pipelines, which is basically what a GeForce 4 was... except with DX8.1 support... and other stuff.
Xbox 360 GPU was roughly a very early HD2000/3000 (launched in 2007)

They have done it before, we don't know exactly how much R&D is going into this thing.



for the time it was a pretty radical design but later we saw it was the future foundation of the Radeon line. there was nothing quite like it out there, especially in flexibility

but in regards to future tech... I would assume because of the universal shading pipeline that has existed since the Xbox 360 GPU... it's likely the most improvements would be to floating point precision, general performance increases and performance:watt. We haven't seen the universal shaders mature, not even close.

Both chips in the 2 xbox's have been based on unreleased tech. Hell, both chips have features that haven't been implemented on other chips yet. I've said it already. The next xbox's video chip will be a dx 11 chip with some features they are looking into implementing into dx12 and maybe in future versions of dx.

 

[Proelite]

People keep posting how the next gen of 28 or even 22nm cards won't be out in time. But those are retail cards. Ati and nvidia will control the release based on yields, current sales and affordability
its perfectly possible for a console to have access to tech that isnt at retail yet. If 28nm isn't doable with good yields, MS/Sony can opt to take the financial hit of poor yields and plan fir those costs to drop quickly, or they could engineer for a larger die size and then re-engineer in 12-18 months with a smaller chip
we should stop being so narrow minded to only be thinking of current PC tech. Wasn't the 360 GPU pretty customised?

This.
Xenos came out on 90nm in Nov 2005. The earliest release for a 90nm GPU was an ATI x1300 and x1800 in Oct 2005.
Nvidia didn't get to 90nm until Spring 2006.

It's safe to say that they won't be as rushed as they were last time. I highly doubt Southern Islands will be delayed into the fall of 2012.

 

[bgassassin]

MS and AMD can hit 28nm for gpus next year right? If that's the case, I don't see the point of waiting until 2013, unless the software isn't ready.

With a larger die size budget for the GPU, 300m^2, they should able to do over three teraflops.

I still get the feeling that number is too aggressive. Near maybe, but not over.

People keep posting how the next gen of 28 or even 22nm cards won't be out in time. But those are retail cards. Ati and nvidia will control the release based on yields, current sales and affordability

its perfectly possible for a console to have access to tech that isnt at retail yet. If 28nm isn't doable with good yields, MS/Sony can opt to take the financial hit of poor yields and plan fir those costs to drop quickly, or they could engineer for a larger die size and then re-engineer in 12-18 months with a smaller chip

we should stop being so narrow minded to only be thinking of current PC tech. Wasn't the 360 GPU pretty customised?

I disagree with the part in bold because doing so could affect their power target. AMD supposedly left things out of Cayman because it was still on the 40nm process and the die would have been too big for all of their plans.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

It makes me wonder what the money Sony gave them went too when I read the complaints people had with 5.

Hookers and blow.

 

[McHuj]

It's safe to say that they won't be as rushed as they were last time. I highly doubt Southern Islands will be delayed into the fall of 2012.

Latest rumor is release in January for the first Southern Islands GPU. Nvidia also stated that they're about to start mass production of Kepler.

I really don't think 28nm yields and production are going to be that much of an issue in another 6-9 months.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Xbox's GPU (via Nvidia) was basically an early GeForce 4 Ti4400 (which launched April 2002) and before someone tears me up, yes it was a GeForce 3 with two pixel pipelines, which is basically what a GeForce 4 was... except with DX8.1 support... and other stuff.

Slight correction: Xbox GPU had two vertex pipelines compared to GeForce 3's one pipeline. All of them (GeForce 3's, Xbox NV2A, and GeForce 4's) had 4 pixel pipelines.

 

[Spawnling]

It should be 4 GB's of ram especially is it's a next generation console. I hope that this article proves itself through these "rumors" though.

 

[DopeyFish]

Slight correction: Xbox GPU had two vertex pipelines compared to GeForce 3's one pipeline. All of them (GeForce 3's, Xbox NV2A, and GeForce 4's) had 4 pixel pipelines.

ah my bad

talking about pixel shaders so much made me confuse myself

well at least it was double of SOMETHING lol

wasn't the vertex/pixel shaders rolled into one unit, though? that's what i was referring to - the vertex/pixel shaders (and as such, triangle/particle output) were doubled, not the fillrate or anything

 

[Petrichor]

Please can Halo 4 be on the new console....

 

[Curufinwe]

Please can Halo 4 be on the new console....

If it has BC, sure.

 

[Eagle316]

Given Xbox 360 and its continued solid sales, I have a hard time believing that Microsoft will launch a completely new system for which they will devote most of their development resources next year.

Unless, however, they attempt to launch a new system that is significantly more capable in terms of graphics and feature sets, and co-launch software for both 360 and 720 for a while, similar to the way developers support PCs and iOS and Android?

 

[H_Prestige]

MS' console strategy isn't centered around the system anymore. They're selling people Xbox Live and everything that comes with it. The box, be it 360 or 720, is just what you need to connect. The game has changed now, this is the model moving forward.

How does Apple sell all these different devices at once? Because they're all portals to connect to the same network.

 

[Eagle316]

How does Apple sell all these different devices at once? Because they're all portals to connect to the same network.

Excellent point and very well and simply stated.

 

[McHuj]

MS' console strategy isn't centered around the system anymore. They're selling people Xbox Live and everything that comes with it. The box, be it 360 or 720, is just what you need to connect. The game has changed now, this is the model moving forward.

How does Apple sell all these different devices at once? Because they're all portals to connect to the same network.

I agree. No one complains or thinks it's dumb that Apple will introduce a new iPhone or iPad when the current iteration is selling so well. It's dumb to wait for sales to fall off, it hurts your brand.

Besides the xbox 3 consumer who's spending 299-399 on a new console isn't the same person buying a $149-199 today. If you've waited 4-5 years for the price to fall to sub $200, are you going to wait for another 4-5 years for the new console to drop price? I don't think so. I think MS needs something to that they can sell to the people who bought a console back in 2005, 2006 and are likely itching for something new.

Getting back to Apple, they have no trouble supporting 3 devices now: 3gs, 4, and 4s with vastly different capabilities. Stuff like XBLA games, media streaming, social networking stuff, etc could easily be cross console compatible with only retail xbox3 games requiring the new console.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I still think fall 2013 will be the best time to launch Xbox 3, from both a hardware and a software standpoint.

 

[AzaK]

MS' console strategy isn't centered around the system anymore. They're selling people Xbox Live and everything that comes with it. The box, be it 360 or 720, is just what you need to connect. The game has changed now, this is the model moving forward.

How does Apple sell all these different devices at once? Because they're all portals to connect to the same network.

It'd be interesting to see consoles take the phone route. Regular, yearly or 2 yearly revisions to bump tech/design a bit. Devs could probably handle supporting the previous gen with simple adjustments like devs do on iOS.

Unfortunately the console business doesn't use a subsidised model so they probably can't get them cheap enough. Especially seeing as the tech bar has been set so high.

 

[delta25]

With MS having all but one major exclusive next year seeing this rumor makes a lot of sense.

 

[coldfoot]

Cell phones can be subsidized by networks, how about getting consoles subsidized by broadband companies? $199 next gen console if you sign up with X broadband service for 2 years for example.

 

[i-Lo]

But will it Blend.... 1080p as baseline resolution and 60 fps as the new standard?

I expect 1080p to be the baseline resolution but something tells me 30fps will be still alive and well next generation as well.

 

[sTeLioSco]

But will it Blend.... 1080p as baseline resolution and 60 fps as the new standard?

I expect 1080p to be the baseline resolution but something tells me 30fps will be still alive and well next generation as well.

it will because this is depends on the developer and what it wants to do.
you can do 60 fps on the 360 and on the original xbox.
but they choose 30fps because you can add more stuff on screen and its easier....

maybe we will see more games at60 but making it mandatory,don't think so.

 

[genjiZERO]

whenever a new system comes out people always complain that it doesn't have enough RAM. Presumably this is a cost restriction. I don't know that much about the costs of console components. RAM is fairly cheap even at the retail level. How much would it cost to put in 4GB v. 2GB at the manufacturing level?

 

[SomeDude]

Pathetic specs.

 

[Proelite]

whenever a new system comes out people always complain that it doesn't have enough RAM. Presumably this is a cost restriction. I don't know that much about the costs of console components. RAM is fairly cheap even at the retail level. How much would it cost to put in 4GB v. 2GB at the manufacturing level?

Console ram != pc ram.

 

[alphaNoid]

Does anyone know how much before the launch did devs get the official 360/PS3 dev kits this gen? 1 or 2 years before?

I was told they had some kind of very early dev 'box' to test with but not really develop directly on. Apparently what they have now is full dev kit, dev kit body etc.. I would guess that most games operate on a 8-18 month cycle and the AAA games are 2 years. However at launch it always seems like only the first party games feel polished or built for the new hardware and most all third party software feels up-ported.

I recall specifically thats how the 360 and the PS3 launched so its possible that MS first party studios have been developing for the next Xbox for awhile and third party devs are now getting their hands on dev kits. I feel the next Xbox will be a 2013 release but because dev kits are now out in the wild, anything can happen.

 

[Doodis]

I still think fall 2013 will be the best time to launch Xbox 3, from both a hardware and a software standpoint.

This may be true, but 2012 might be the best time to launch from a business standpoint, which will trump hardware and software.

 

[kodecraft]

Cliffy B, get on it! we need 4GB. Do your magic.

More like Epic, not just one guy.

 

[kodecraft]

Epic, You know what you need to do...

They probably already did it, thats why we are getting what we are getting.

 

[EloquentM]

Pathetic specs.

Contrary to popular belief, high-end parts for specs are not exactly feasible (due to heat and power consumption) in a small enclosed system such as a console casing. I'm sure you already knew that though.

 

[Cmd. Pishad'aç]

But will it Blend.... 1080p as baseline resolution and 60 fps as the new standard?

I expect 1080p to be the baseline resolution but something tells me 30fps will be still alive and well next generation as well.

There's nothing wrong with 30 fps. It suits quite well some types of games.

 

[brotkasten]

Console ram != pc ram.

This needs to be in the thread title.

 

[-COOLIO-]

There's nothing wrong with 30 fps. It suits quite well some types of games.

seriously, and i feel the tradeoff for 1080 vs 720 isnt worth it for the increase in graphics you could have. 1080 is better for simplistic graphics but for intensive stuff i actually prefer the extra effects you can get with the lesser resolution

 

[clav]

Contrary to popular belief, high-end parts for specs are not exactly feasible (due to heat and power consumption) in a small enclosed system such as a console casing. I'm sure you already knew that though.

Clearly people want the next Xbox to be this big.

 

[i-Lo]

There's nothing wrong with 30 fps. It suits quite well some types of games.

I never said there was, merely stated the fact that contrary to the belief of some who denounce 30 fps as acceptable for next gen the mass market will not care.

Add to the development benefits of having it run at 30 as opposed to 60 fps. Greater detail.

seriously, and i feel the tradeoff for 1080 vs 720 isnt worth it for the increase in graphics you could have. 1080 is better for simplistic graphics but for intensive stuff i actually prefer the extra effects you can get with the lesser resolution

I think it'll be pretty sad if the next gen base resolution was not 1080p given even today there are quite a few high profile games that don't even run at 720p.

 

[Conflict NZ]

Given Xbox 360 and its continued solid sales, I have a hard time believing that Microsoft will launch a completely new system for which they will devote most of their development resources next year.

Unless, however, they attempt to launch a new system that is significantly more capable in terms of graphics and feature sets, and co-launch software for both 360 and 720 for a while, similar to the way developers support PCs and iOS and Android?

Unless Microsoft believe the year headstart is the reason they are doing so well this generation and don't want to give Sony the chance to launch alongside them.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

This needs to be in the thread title.

Doesn`t change the fact that 2 gb of Ram for a game console launching late 2012 are unacceptable, and assuming a 6/7 year lifespan.... no, thats just ridiculous. Also the OS will be considerably bigger with the rumors of windows 8 coming and all those entertainment fuctions MS is planning.

 

[Psychotext]

Also the OS will be considerably bigger with the rumors of windows 8 coming and all those entertainment fuctions MS is planning.

The entertainment functions don't need to be sitting in the background at all times when you're playing a game. Dashboard != OS.